Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[member_20317]

Arjun ji, the youth (about a third of it) has seen so many Rudy/Jerry Macquire that they want to be like him. So whoever hands out sabashi these 1/3rd troll to his booth and being well youthful and energetic cry out the most. That can have a confusing effect if appropriately amplified by MSM.

Business promoters want Modi but they too know that they are only a support mechanism not the sepoy in the war front. This comes from an Industry Association man. I have noted that old line engineers and other professionals understand NaMo but they are still not politically active enough. What is required is a coordinated action plan and a discrediting of the MSM in the MSM itself (alternatively take SM to the masses in a true sense by getting them involved instead of reducing them to the status of a mere forward button)

[RajeshA]

Continuing from "Statewide Elections" Thread

Hazare may he a bit misguided or naive at times but now he is an 'anti national crook' is he? 15 years in the Indian Army including battling on the front line during the 1965 war, admirable social work which transformed Ralegan Sidhhi and much more. If he is anti national in your books then I wish India had more anti nationals like him.

Well, AAP people say same thing about AK. IITK graduate, if he had gone to USA, he would have been making $400,000/yr today atleast . Had he been in IRS, he would have made Rs 100 crore by now.

Well, Anna may have been good guy when he joined Army and till he left Army. But people change. And fame-hungry and power-hungry people are almost always stay away from dirty money or even even money to keep a sagely image. The real fall comes, when after years and decades of work, they get no fame and no power. Thats when they develop hatred for commons, and promptly join the dark side i.e. foreigners aka MNC-owners. Both Anna and AK have same profile. They stayed away from money, toiled for years with hope to get fame/power or both, and got nothing, and so both became Ford Foundation agents and started movement for MNC-pal aka "Janlokpal with NO Right to Recall Janlokpal".

Now, I believe you havent read even one line of the Anna's Janlokpal bill. Pls read the whole 40 page draft or as much as you can. You will easily see the goal behind the draft is to create an oligarchy of Janlokpals so that MNC-owners can control India with ease. They only need to control 11 Janlokpals - the colloquial "bhoot ki choti". Now you may not have read Janlokpal, but volunteers across India informed Anna about this fatal flaw in Janlokpal. But Anna could not care less. He was mad mad mad mad after paid-media coverage. And so told volunteers (I am quoting exact words that volunteers told me) "yeh saari technicality bhool jao ; sirf ek hee kaam karo --- janlokpal kaa prachar karo " i.e. forget all technicalities, do only one thing, campaign for Janlokpal. Essentially, this fame hungry freak wanted to convert all volunteers into slogan shouting machines carrying his pix round the clock !!

Anna knew the whole game. he also knew that AK and Prashant Pradushan wanted to form a political party. AK, Shanti Pradushan, Prashant Pradushan, Santosh Hegde etc are known Congress agent. Still he went with them because he wanted publicity at any cost. Anna also supported AK's demand that Kiran Bedi should NOT be put in Lokpal draft committee which was formed on 8-apr-2011. Basically, Anna was NOT "misguided". He is too cunning to get misguided. He deliberately did all this to get fame. The details are in chap-45 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm

"Fame Hungry Freak": If I may temporarily use your example as a politician and more importantly as an activist and compare it to that of Anna Hazare, the big difference is media attention. Everybody in India knows Anna Hazare. The reason they do is because the secular (I use the word with as much contempt that I can bring forth without having some psychosomatic reaction) media, which as you point out I think correctly, owned by XYZ foreign and Congress interests, would only show somebody and some activism only if it is aligned with their interests as they see them at the time.

Obviously the IAC movement was deemed by these interests as useful seeding for a color revolution or at least as a means to have a bigger say in the political and cultural future of India.

Perhaps as far as here we both may agree, I don't know.

Where our thinking departs is on the thinking of Anna Hazare. I think your thinking is that when foreign interests use you, ultimately you will lose and that is a natural law.

Anna Hazare knew MSM were looking for a noble monkey they could put up as a face for a fake anti-establishment movement and he let himself be associated with many left loonies and Congress people. That was the only way MSM would agree to turn the spotlight on him and his message. Arvind Kejriwal did use Anna Hazare to rise and get more traction. Anna also understood that if he were to get too close to Hindutvavadis like Baba Ramdev, media would just stop projecting him as a anti-corruption crusader. So he has kept his distance from Modi, Sangh and Baba Ramdev. In fact despite the obvious sympathies, even Kiran Bedi and General VK Singh have decided not to let themselves be associated with Sangh. Why? Just so that MSM keeps the spotlight on them.

What Anna Hazare has shown is that he has played a masterful innings and it is in fact he who has used MSM like a condom, and not the other way round.

Anna Hazare knew exactly when to eject out of his fighter jet after pointing it where it would hurt the system. Now I don't know whether that was by accident or design. If it was by accident then I am glad Kiran Bedi and General VK Singh were at hand at the end to copilot the jet. If it was by design then I am glad Anna Hazare got lucky and he didn't end up like MK Gandhi - dead and with legacy hijacked. It was a high stakes game.

Congress cannot afford to have Anna Hazare's death from starvation/fasting on their hands. They built up a formidable foe through their own media. Earlier they thought that they had him under control through their own insiders in the movement. Now it is not much so as the insiders moved on to AAP. So Congress are willing to pass Lokpal, even though it would hurt Sonia's baby - AAP. Though they hope Rahul Gandhi can get some laurels for pushing Lokpal through Parliament.

RMji is the only patriot around - everyone else is a deshdrohi

I have rhino-skin, and I am immune to all sarcasm. But my volunteers have been asking BJP leaders, Anna, AK, Subramanian Swamy and everyone you can think of to make a loud public cry to release census-2011 population numbers of Hindus, Muslims etc. And guess what we have till date? A pin drop silence. So I wont mind your sarcasm. But can YOU ask all BJP leaders, S Swamy, Anna , Mohan Bhagatwat etc to release census-2011 numbers? Because thats when you will see their patriotism and true colors. Now anyway, BJP does want the numbers to come out in jan-2014, but not earlier. So they may make a demand very soon. But it is fact that BJP leaders also supported suppression of the data till now. And Anna\AK also both supported Congress proposals to suppress the numbers till jun-2014. Now you can guess how much money Congress\BJP\CPM etc MPs got from Saudi Arabia to suppress these numbers. And how much crores of media-publicity did Anna\AK got from Saudi Arabia to suppress these numbers. You may guess Rs 0 or Re 1 or any guesses you like. But please dont blame vote bank politics ( 17 > 72 ) or secularism for this silence. This silence is 100% paid silence, not borne out of votes or any ideology.

This has already been answered but citing some posting limitations you ignored the counter-argument.

why BJP leaders didnt demand release of religion data till date.

Hints :

1. Who benefits if data had come in jan-2012

2. Who benefits if data had come in jan-2014?

3. Who benefits if data had come in jun-2014?

4. Who has power to force BJP MPs to remain silent?

It's one thing to have the data, it's another thing to have a plan what to do with it! Such data cuts both ways. If the Hindus are shown to have shrunk to say 70%, then there is going to be a huge uproar and the whole narrative would change to the conversion race and demographic explosion! Would BJP want to run in Lok Sabha elections with conversion being the sole focus? They would not be able to avoid that once the data comes out. It is going to be very divisive. So would that be better suited to run an election campaign on? Hardly.

The claim of Hindus that India belongs to them and they have the right to determine the course of India's destiny is often based on the fact that still 80% of Indians are Hindus. Does Hindutva want to jeopardize that? Hardly.

If a huge increase in conversion is shown, again organizations like VHP would have to answer for it, why have they allowed such proselytization. Why are they sitting on their lazy butts? Would they want to answer that? Hardly.

There is only one plan.
Get power and then try to change the situation from inside, try to win back lost territory from that vantage point, and try to do that without causing whole of India to explode.

Bringing out the data may hurt Congress, but it would hurt Hindutva as well. Many on the right are going to go bonkers on reading the census and with all that impotent rage they are going to put off a lot of the middle ground.

It is better to have this data out when the election is over. Then the rage would not be that impotent. The day before the college exam you don't want to know your girlfriend is breaking up with you!

It is not a question of right or wrong. It is a question of timing and of political and psychological consequences.

For most people, Sangh Pariwaar = VHP =RSS = Bajrang Dal = BJP = Shiv Sena.
BJP needs to get it's image right for success with liberals. How hard it could be to distance themselves from the militant goons who go around imposing Talibani code on people ? A few years back, even I didn't have much love for BJP even when I despised Congress.

Where ever BJP-leaders become firm, they weaken VHP\BD workers. Eg In Gujarat VHP\BD workers are in shambles. And in MP\Chhatisgadh also, they are now weakening. In Rajasthan it is strong and now now will soon be weakened. In UP, BJP-leaders are adding a lot of resources to VHP\BD, but if and once BJP-leaders get a strong saddle in UP, BJP will finish HP\BD too.

VHP\BD workers do the dirty work of bringing BJP leaders into power. When BJP leaders are out of power, they dont get police protection, and can also become victims of Islamists. Thats when BJP leaders use VHP\BD workers to work --- for protection as well as fight against Islamists. But once BJP leaders themselves come in power and get a firm grip, the FIRST thing they do is weaken VHP\BD workers.

FYI, it was VHP\BD workers who brought BJP-leaders to power in dec-2002 Gujarat elections. Without them, BJP would have lost bitterly. And today, VHP workers are rotting in prison, and dont even have money to pay lawyers and support family members. But then, politics is never fair.

Problem here is that the Hindutva principles and overall strategy has not been adequately formulated, even internally.

[RajeshA]

Full implosion!

[Singha]

the fact that he is a agitationist and refused to accept any responsibility to rule despite INC support on the table...a shoot n scoot bhagora can now be drilled into everyone's head for next 6 months.

if INC/BJP play their cards well, this guy will be toast in next cycle. I think INC also realizes he went feral and will come down hard on him if they can.

[pankajs]

^^
Agree. I fact the moment I read about RaGa pitching for Lokpal .. I knew CONg was going after his main plank to neutralize him.

[krishnan]

this guy is upto something against hazare ji, look at the deliberate dropping of 'ji' , guy should at least give his age some respect

[Comer]

I would be very worried about the quality of our youth if NaMo is a lost cause among this set...and the fact that of all countries in the world, India's population is the most skewed towards the youth makes this doubly worrying. Seems to me though that NaMo's reachout to the youth will ultimately have effect.

Possibly the youth may not have enough experience under their belt to analyze the alternatives. But if they have been given the privilege of exercising their franchise, it would be a disaster if this exercise of franchise is happening without adequate thought or understanding of reality.

Possibly a few caveats in my observation
1. I mmay have lost the ability to talk to teenagers/college kids
2. This was around NaMo's appointment as face of BJP. May have improved now, but then again AAP happened. So not sure what will be the current status.

[RajeshA]

the fact that he is a agitationist and refused to accept any responsibility to rule despite INC support on the table...a shoot n scoot bhagora can now be drilled into everyone's head for next 6 months.

He still has 9 days to decide if he is making a government in Delhi or not. He wanted 10 days for consultation. Only then can one know what he wants to do!

Actually his decision to go against Anna and his decision to refuse to govern and fulfill promises given to voters may be in fact just be the right incentive for a big part of those 28 MLAs to splinter and form own party pledging allegiance to Anna's Movement.

They can then align with BJP in Delhi. Important is that there are no "secularists" in that splinter-group.

Nobody can hold BJP responsible for breaking AAP when Arvind Kejriwal himself acts so irresponsibly.

[Sagar G]

Personally, I'm not advocating or discouraging consumption of beef............

My response http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1558273

[Sagar G]

Full implosion!

Absolutely perfect

[Vipin_Upadhyay]

This Kajrare character is now been provided supreme coverage by MSM surpassing Rahul baba of last year.

I won't be surprised if Kajrare is projected as the one true God of honesty, simultaneously Diggy or Bhushan moron is let loose to lampoon Anna & Bedi as closet Sanghis.

There is a reason why Kajrare has dared openly to go against Anna, he certainly knows he has backing from MSM in longer run. Even MSM has lost all hope on CONparty to stay against NaMo, hence this careful propping-up of Kajrare who has nothing to loose.

[Comer]

Anna group, Kejriwal group and Congress have brought a monster called Lokpal which will lock the next govt to standstill. Watch how every step of the executive will be thwarted by the sword of lokpal hanging over their heads.

[Hari Seldon]

NM is breathing fire in the dehra doon rally... boy o boy... simhasan doley onlee... http://yuva4india.tv/

whoa... hard hitting man... chappan ki chaati... can see why sagareekaah was compulsively obsessed onlee... vande mataram happened too

[johneeG]

Fordriwal exposing Anna, now thats something!
----

I would be very worried about the quality of our youth if NaMo is a lost cause among this set...and the fact that of all countries in the world, India's population is the most skewed towards the youth makes this doubly worrying. Seems to me though that NaMo's reachout to the youth will ultimately have effect.

Possibly the youth may not have enough experience under their belt to analyze the alternatives. But if they have been given the privilege of exercising their franchise, it would be a disaster if this exercise of franchise is happening without adequate thought or understanding of reality.

Possibly a few caveats in my observation
1. I mmay have lost the ability to talk to teenagers/college kids
2. This was around NaMo's appointment as face of BJP. May have improved now, but then again AAP happened. So not sure what will be the current status.

Just one point, I think most people take up a cause because of peer pressure not necessarily because they agree or know about it. So, if someone they know and like is passionate about it, then they are also likely to get interested in it. Also, warming up to something or even disillusionment can take some time, so one meeting won't be enough to convince someone for or against anything. Thats why, political parties insist on regular touch with the voter instead of one visit before the election.

While categorizing people is ok, I think its also important to realize that ultimately people are difficult to categorize and do keep evolving, so there really is no person who is fixed in his ideas. Its always changing. Infact, it takes a great deal for someone to stick to his ideas.

Lastly, I think the 'liberal' crowd in dhesh is pretty small in terms of percentage. Even all the guys who are educated or abroad are not necessarily 'liberal'. So, it does not make political sense for a political party to change itself for the sake of this small section. It makes more sense for the political party to see how they can change this section so that they align with the political party's views.

Anyway, this is a bigger topic(which ties in with the Go-raksha also):
Certain views/behaviours/ideas have been pushed as 'noble' or 'liberal' by some powerful people with propaganda at their disposal, while certain other kinds have been tarnished as 'conservative' or 'narrow'. Various interested groups have come together to deracinate the Bhaarathiyas from their roots. The problem is not limited to one country, but a global phenomenon. Development has been equalized to westernization. And it is sought to be pushed that only those who favor westernization and deracination from the native culture are for the development. Unfortunately, most elites in most countries(including Dhesh) seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for this propaganda. These elites yearn for a pat on the back from the west and look down at contempt towards the natives and the culture.

There was an excellent post by Atri saar equating the baki elites and the elites of dhesh on this particular behaviour(if someone can find that post, please post it here). In the long term, this cannot be allowed to go on from the native perspective. This is just another form of neo-colonialism. So, here in this case, it is the elites and wannabe-elites i.e self-styled 'liberals' who have to learn to change. No point in asking the political parties to change for the sake of these people. Specially when these elites are demographic minority (if they had the numbers, then the political parties would already toe their line. The whole problem is that they want to set the agenda despite their small numbers and limited contributions).

[chaanakya]

SP may not allow Lokpal to come. But if it comes, only next govt would get a chance to appoint Lokpal and Lokayukta. See the fight of NaMo to have a say in appointing Lokayukta? Ultimately he had his say. So I don't think he would allow any undue advantage to accrue to Congis out of power. AAP has been foisted upon the Delhi electorate and in using ANNA to facilitate rise of Kejariwal Congis played trump card to stop the Juggernaut of NaMo. Now they would like to play the same on national level in G E 2014. UP is gone case for Congis and Sp given the recent riots and polarisation hence UP would be prime target of Congis and AAP to provide alternative to NaMo lest Tsunamo destroys everything of Congis in its path.

Hence it is necessary to ensure AAP forms Govt and shows its true face with support of Congis and by March electorate should be fully educated of AAP designs. Batla House, J&K, ISI beneficiaries, Maulana Tauqir and all should be highlighted besides failure to implement their agenda and if they fail to form the Govt then call them Bhagora.

[Yagnasri]

There is something clearly wrong and childish about Khejiri. Not using ji word on Anna who after all an elderly man on whose support this fellow came up in political front and USING it on other two. Deliberately insulting.

[panduranghari]

Narayana Murthy of Infosys seems to be excited about Khejri and Nilankani as P.M.. How come English media doing these items unless prompted by mafia. Few money bags in Mumbai and Bangalore are also taking Nilankani.

Mafia trying damage control which may at least come to 3rd front situation with outside support. nilanLankanI may be used to reduce wave in cities and urban areas.

go Hammer and tongs. Tell the rashtra- nilankani may be the MMS for Rahu Nehru.

[Arjun]

Narayana Murthy of Infosys seems to be excited about Khejri and Nilankani as P.M..

NRN was only asked about whether he would vote for Nilekani as MP and he said yes. That was to be expected...there was no endorsement of Nilekani as PM.

[panduranghari]

MOVED

[kapilrdave]

Full implosion!

That is a parody twitter account.

[member_20317]

@ArvindKejriwal is the real account. Latest is Shekhar Kapoor (Mr. India) on his wall supporting him.

But you are right this message is not there. Unreal kya?

[kapilrdave]

Yeah. Come to GJ you cockroach kejri

Whats your take on the reception AK might get, assuming INC supports him 100%? Will middle class/youth be swayed even partially? My assumption is Modi is too popular.. but would like your take, if you're from there.

No chance for AAP in central and south GJ. In saurashtra, kachch and north GJ he will cut more votes from congi if he can really make an impact. In short AAP will be no better than 'Individual' candidates. Gujarat janta is not fool. In last assembly election congoons promised for lakhs of free houses for poors. They ran a huge campaign and approached only women (which was supposed to be a masterstroke) for filling up the form. As per their claim over 28 lakh women filled up forms. But eventually they lost in most of those area . Janta cannot be fooled anymore and least by AAP whose sole agenda is corruption.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Talked state level sangh cadre. They estimate at least 275 seats. Said there is a wave in south too.

Also, expect at least 4 cabinet ministers from GJ assembly to go to delhi. The man wants the people whom he trusts.

TFWIW aanllee.

[kapilrdave]

What's the big deal if cows/buffalo are slaughtered?

It is a very big deal. My answer here

[anmol]

@ArvindKejriwal is the real account. Latest is Shekhar Kapoor (Mr. India) on his wall supporting him.

But you are right this message is not there. Unreal kya?

It is parody account.

[krishnan]

its not , thats the real account

[krishnan]

[Yagnasri]

Modi and CBN met in Bhopal oath taking. One to one talk for an hour. In one month officially alliance will be declared. Hope good sense prevail on CBN.

[anmol]

its not , thats the real account

This is the tweet from the parody account https://twitter.com/ArvindKejriwaI/stat ... 1450023936

Notice that its KejriwaI not L.

[member_20317]

its not , thats the real account

Arre bhai ho ya na ho. But where is that message. Were we shooting the wrong guy.

At least my teetars were not too many.

Ok jokes apart krishnan ji you and I were looking at the real account and apparently there is a parody account too. And the link is the same.
https://twitter.com/ArvindKejriwal
https://twitter.com/ArvindKejriwaI

well almost. notice the ends letter 'l' and 'I'. Indians ki high sense of _ami_a panthi ki bhi hudh hai yaar.


@anmol I see you beat me to it by 3 minutes. thanks but no thanks bro you guys could have saved me some effort. Thoda consideration to rakho bhai

[anmol]

[anmol]

@anmol I see you beat me to it by 3 minutes. thanks but no thanks bro you guys could have saved me some effort. Thoda consideration to rakho bhai

Hokay Ravi G JI
---
@krishnan Ji is that picture from Mumbai ?

[Yagnasri]

What is the rubbish he is talking?

[harbans]

That is what i was wondering too wtf BC is saying. I think he thought Gay= bachelor all his life. It does happen to some people..they believe in a concept for decades before it gets corrected (or not).

[kapilrdave]

^^ He had earlier tweeted that ABV is a womanizer. He is a very responsible person. May be he is telling the truth. Even Subbu Swami earlier said that ABV had a lot to hide.

[RajeshA]

But you are right this message is not there. Unreal kya?

Arvind Kejriwal deleted his earlier tweet. But we have a photu!

Added Later:

It is indeed a parody account, but what a choice of userid, khatarnaakh!

[sunnyP]

Stanley Wolpert, the American author, claimed in his book that Nehru had several homo' encounters during his early years, first as a boy in Allahabad, then at Harrow, followed by Cambridge and even later. Maybe this is what the tweet is alluding to. Don't know about the rest.

Anyway who cares. It is no business of the state if a man chooses to sleep with a man or a woman with a woman. As long as everyone is a willing partner then politicians need to shut up about it and get on with the important stuff. History has shown us that politicians who shout the loudest about such issues are the ones who have something to hide themselves.

[chetak]

^^ He had earlier tweeted that ABV is a womanizer. He is a very responsible person. May be he is telling the truth. Even Subbu Swami earlier said that ABV had a lot to hide.

How does it itch in BC's chaddies ??

Consenting adults can poke whom ever they like, unless someone did/did not poke BC and that is what is itching onlee. Next, some enterprising cobra post prick will be scrambling to produce videos on the say so of the congi dirty tricks dept.

Certainly don't expect people like him to carry common gossip.

Cheap gossip mongering like this will only devalue his body of work

[Yagnasri]

I expected better of BC like person.

[kapilrdave]

Well a PM being womanizer is definately a cause of concern for the state. But that is if there is any substence in it.

[RajeshA]

Anyway who cares. It is no business of the state if a man chooses to sleep with a man or a woman with a woman. As long as everyone is a willing partner then politicians need to shut up about it and get on with the important stuff. History has shown us that politicians who shout the loudest about such issues are the ones who have something to hide themselves.

If all of that is a big taboo or even criminal in a country, then any politician or leader is susceptible to blackmail by foreign intelligence agencies and others who are in the know of it.

Germany's outgoing Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle, Berlin's Mayor Klaus Wowereit are known gays. But that is no problem, either for them, their voters or the country. It is all known, out in the open, without any negative consequences.

If in India it is criminalized, say through Section 377 or otherwise is considered a social no-go, then crypto-homosexuals in politics and administration in India can be blackmailed, and that is a national security risk.