J & K news and discussion

[kvraghav]

@Somnath.
You say we have to have influence in what not places,no one would even care for you if your house is not set in order.India is never taken to consideration even by sri lanka leave alone the straights of homruz.We can pull out data to justify anything.The fact remains we look weak because of kashmir.Heck even Georgia had the guts to try for osetti even when they were facing russia.We do not.I tell you,all our taxes are going to buy fancy things,dust them off every republic day,show it to the crowds,get some spineless people to get a jolly ride on those and allow them to rot.

[Arjun]

For those of us who have actually talked to Kashmiri muslims the islamist elements are NOT dominant in Kashmir. They are the loud squeaky wheel and have street power. Remember that the population of the valley is just a Million. Even a couple of thousand islamists can intimidate the population really well. Similar groupings around the world have been just as successful.

The Kashmiri's have a vision of the India they acceded to. Rightly or Wrongly they feel we have not lived up to that ideal either.

The only people who have a true right to raise the Indian flag in Kashmir are Kashmiri's themselves. Sure you can march in there and do it, but it does not speak well of us, the other states. Anyone doing so uninvited is violating someones home. This is the meaning of the Indian Federation. We are not an Empire or the Domain of a God King.

Members from the Kashmir unit of the BJP would obviously have played a prominent role in the hoisting...only small problem there is the government has arrested Mohammad Yusuf, the BJP Kashmir unit head - late yesterday.

[sum]

But news reports say that the CPRF will hoist the flag at Lal Chowk this year. Would you now dismiss the yatra as a gimmick? Or maybe the yatra has served its purpose?

If it took this yatra to even make the CRPF hoist the flag again, i would gladly congratulate the BJP for taking it up when having no support with "other secular parties" on this issue ( other than aam aadmi support).

Only hope that it doesnt take a yatra every year to keep making even the security forces to hoist the national flag in their own AoR.

[KLNMurthy]

CRAMS,

There is no parallel between Kashmir and Palestine - I said that before.But just as Ariel Sharon and Yasser Arafat seemed to have similar objectives on Sharon's "yatra" to the Temple Mount, the Ekta Yatra too seem to be serving the interests of both the BJP and Hurriyat/Hizb/Lashkar!

Today, nationalists, led by BJP believe and with good reason that MMS is on a road to sell out of Kashmir through joint love making couched in some diplomatic mumbo jumbo and in a sufficiently slow time scale that can bypass parliament resoltions and hoodwink a naive, apathetic, gullibe public consumed with their day to day survival challenges.

I havent seen a SINGLE concrete step - mind you a single administrative or constittuional action - from the present govt that past govts, NDA, UF et al have not tried...And tell me, honestly, how can the constitutional status of J&K be changed by a "slow burning diplomatic" move?

whether it is Sharon and the palestinian intifada or the BJP's "provocation" (such a lovely Chinese word it is) at Lal Chowk it is always a matter of bringing to the front existing conflicts and contradictions. The rationale cited against these "provocations" is that we should let sleeping dogs lie and not give a reason to the agitators to escalate their fight, as if the provocation would be the reason instead of the underlying conflict itself.

A different question to ask about the J&K situation is, whether we have seen diminishing and now negative returns from a policy of keeping our lips sealed about the true nature of the azadi movement, and whether it would not be a good thing to kick-start a discussion of the essential fascist nature of the separatists' goals, regardless of the political nature of the "provocation" or even a (marginally, I think) increased chance of further bloodshed.

What do the people of India, or the world at large (considering the nuke dimension) gain by bending over backwards to appease pakiness? This is the essential question.

[KLNMurthy]

I knew you would come back with this. What is all this joint-love making deal with Mush? Why all the appeasement of the separatists scum? Suzzana and Geelani puking their bile right under MMS's nose is not provacative? What about all this talk of going back to pre-1953 status. There is something cooking behind the scenes, and hence the need of the hour to expose him.

Randomly, I can think of the following "key statements" around Kashmir over the years:

1. PVNR's "sky is the limit" offer of autonomy in 1992 while announcing elections..This was the first official signal for pre-1953 status..
2. Deve Gowda's "Kashmir problem will be resolved in accordance with the wishes of the Kashmiris" - suspicioulsy close to the US-EU formulation?
3. ABV's "insaaniyat ke dayre mein" statement when asked whether talks with militants would be held within the ambit of the Indian constitution..Shorn of the poetic sophistry, what did it mean?
4. ABV govt's initiative, first and only, to talk to the Hizb....

Coming to UPA and MMS, what is precisely the "love making deal" with Mush? Where are the adminsttrative and legal steps to revert to pre-1953 status?

The Instrument of Accession in all cases was signed by the rulers of princely states, in this case Maharaja Hari Singh. The special status was bestowed on J&k thanks to that *&%# Nehru and his installation of Sheikh Abdullah as dictator of the state without the due electoral process.

That is not quite correct. There was no one single template of the Isntrument of Accession..Every princely state signed (a slightly different) variant..The one signed by Hari Singh "agreed to accede to the Dominion of India on condition that the state retain its own constitution and autonomy in all matters except defense, currency and foreign affairs". Article 370 was promulgated in order to reflect the specific Instrument of Accession signed by Hari Singh...

Over the years, the only movement on Art 370 has been towards dilution of its provisions..As of now, barring the issue of owning property by "outsiders", dont see any other major "difference" between the constittuional provisions governing Kashmir to the rest of India..BTW, the covenant on property is presetn in a number of other states as well AFAIK..

If the entire combined leadership of BJP / NDA, preceded by JLN, PVNR, and all their grandfathers unto Mahatma Gandhi all promised to compromise with the azadiwallahs in the Valley, then they are all wrong in light of what we know today about the consequences of pakiness and the indisputable pakiness of the azadi movement. In a word it is a fight for a fascist putsch, has always been.

The only correct position today is to declare unequivocally that fascist attacks on the Republic will not be tolerated and put down with maximum prejudice and then follow through starting with the Valley. It is a scoundrel's argument to say that you have tolerated or appeased fascism or fascist tendencies on other occasions (e.g., telangana or gujjars or shiv sena etc.) therefore you should tolerate the Valley fascists.

[abhishek_sharma]

Listen,there is a lot of wisdom in what Theo says.

No.

The people to raise the flag are the Kashmiris themselves.

We hoped they would raise the flag. Unfortunately their flag has a different color. However, if they want to participate, they should be welcomed.

But that is sure to rankle (it will be seen and feel as an invading force , doing things against the will of the Kashmiri people) and it is counter productive and you push the average Kashmiri right into the arms of Gilani . That is exactly what I said earlier.

Why should it rankle? If an average Kashmiri loves India, s/he should not be "rankled" by his/her own flag. Moreover, if Indians are moving inside India, how is this an "invasion"?

But that is sure to rankle (it will be seen and feel as an invading force , doing things against the will of the Kashmiri people) and it is counter productive and you push the average Kashmiri right into the arms of Gilani . That is exactly what I said earlier.

Why is it against the will of Kashmiri people? I thought the flag is hoisted at Bakshi stadium every year? Living on allowances from India is surely consistent with the will of Kashmiri people. But the flag is a problem.

Let us face it. There is an issue on the ground in Kashmir. These are best addressed by open dialogue and long term negotiations and not coercion and the gun. We do need to talk to the Kashmiri separatists who are willing to talk.

Actually dialogue has been going on for a long time. No problems there. A flag is not a gun. Hoisting is not coercion.

Yes, the BJP can absolutely be a part of the solution . But it seems hell bent on creating new problems and rekindling the fires that seem to be dying down, all for what, more electoral issues to sow and reap.Sorry. Shameful to say the least.

Hoisting the flag can "create problems". Sorry, I thought burning the flag is a problem. Oops, I guess that is allowed by the Freedom of speech, right?

I don't have psychic powers, so I don't know if electoral issues have motivated them. You are clearly waaaay smarter than this bigot, so I guess you are right. I can turn this around and say that the yatra has been opposed for electoral benefits in some states. "Sorry. Shameful to say the least."

[shravan]

Jaitely, Sushma and Ananth kr head to Jammu..

[AbhishekD]

I am clearly very ignorant. Can you please cite some documents which explain this "meaning of Indian federation"?

Listen,there is a lot of wisdom in what Theo says. The people to raise the flag are the Kashmiris themselves. If you take a million men and march from BJP ruled states , or if you make the Army /CRPF etc hoist the flag in Lal Chowk, sure you can do it (such a flag wont stay there for long without a platoon to guard it if done in such a way). But that is sure to rankle (it will be seen and feel as an invading force , doing things against the will of the Kashmiri people) and it is counter productive and you push the average Kashmiri right into the arms of Gilani . That is exactly what I said earlier.

Let us face it. There is an issue on the ground in Kashmir. These are best addressed by open dialogue and long term negotiations and not coercion and the gun. We do need to talk to the Kashmiri separatists who are willing to talk.

Yes, there is no alternative to coercion and the gun when there is violence, especially if there are terrorist agendas fanned from across the border. But now that has largely abated, you really NEED to absolutely open hearts and minds to the Kashmiris who are opposed and talk ceaselessly with open mind and in good faith and do the maximum you can. That might and will not satisfy the maximum agenda of anyone, but we should still talk. And yes, normalcy doesn't mean lack of gunfire, but more normalcy in the larger sense.

Kashmir deserves a chance at peace, which probably 2 generations there haven't seen. The Indian govt should do it's part and do the best it can , along with the civil society groups in India.

Yes, the BJP can absolutely be a part of the solution . But it seems hell bent on creating new problems and rekindling the fires that seem to be dying down, all for what, more electoral issues to sow and reap.Sorry. Shameful to say the least.

Liberal venting is all that Vina is doing on the Kashmir issue. JLN , Sheikh Abdullah, KM's and the entire liberal establishment had more than 40 years to bring peace in kashmir and make the arrangement work that they envisaged for kashmir. Instead of bringing peace and making the arrangement of Article 370 work we saw in the 90's a brutal muslim fundamentalist uprising resulting in the worst ethnic cleansing of hindus from the valley and the valley being thrown to dogs, terrorists and islamists. The liberal establishment is completely responsible for this problem in the valley. BJP had no hand in this situation. It's influence in kashmir has been zero and continues to be zero.

Instead of acknowledging the failure of this policy the liberal establishment continues to pursue this failed policy and does not do introspection of this failed policy. It continues to defend this failed policy resulting in a political deadlock on the issue of kashmir in India. The Hindu right is not going to stay quiet anymore. Hindus have a right over the valley. They are the most wronged entity in Kashmir. Their homes, livelihood has been taken away by this liberal establishment and we will defend our right to have a stake in kashmir. KM's have to engage hindus of India and come to terms with the decision they took in 1947.

In 1947, Kashmiris were attacked by pakistan and instead of defending themselves as an independent nation they came to India for assistance and India put a clear condition that accede to India or join pakistan. They decided to join India and that decision is irreversible. India has put blood, man and money to kashmir because of the decision kashmiris took in 1947 to become Indians. Kashmiris have to live and die by the decision they took in 1947. When attacked by pakistan they should have defended themselves or join pakistan. They dont have any right to say that now we want to join pakistan or want independence.

BJP's yatra is a political notice to the liberal establishment. The liberal establishment needs to engage the Hindu Right on the kashmir issue. They cannot dance to their own tune, especially given their track record in becoming a factor towards the rise of islamist fundamentalism in kashmir

[somnath]

Now if MMS did indeed invite BJP to come over for a flag hoisting ceremony in Srinagar then the BJP would have to either abandon plans to do the flag hoisting at Lal Chowk and go to Bakshi Stadium or decline the offer to participate in the official flag hoisting ceremony in Srinagar.

I am pretty sure the BJP has an invite to the Bakshi Stadium function - standard protocol..

[svinayak]

The only people who have a true right to raise the Indian flag in Kashmir are Kashmiri's themselves. Sure you can march in there and do it, but it does not speak well of us, the other states. Anyone doing so uninvited is violating someones home. This is the meaning of the Indian Federation. We are not an Empire or the Domain of a God King.

A foreign nation is involved and hence all of India has a right to come and host the flag

When a foreign nation flag is put into your house you need to oppose it. You need to make sure that other countries do not have any say inside our federation. This is the the simple meaning of consitutional nationalism

When a foreign nation has violated our country and out soil then it is the right of all the citizen - who have responsibility to defend the nation.

[negi]

Let us face it. There is an issue on the ground in Kashmir. These are best addressed by open dialogue and long term negotiations and not coercion and the gun. We do need to talk to the Kashmiri separatists who are willing to talk.

Well this is again a typical 'Gobermund of India' talk, the governments that actually walk the talk usually crack a whip first followed by the talk (latter for purpose of public consumption onlee), if 'dialogue' (now when did I last hear this word ) was indeed a solution for J&K then gupmasters that we are we should have resolved it eons ago , no ?

Yes, there is no alternative to coercion and the gun when there is violence, especially if there are terrorist agendas fanned from across the border. But now that has largely abated, you really NEED to absolutely open hearts and minds to the Kashmiris who are opposed and talk ceaselessly with open mind and in good faith and do the maximum you can. That might and will not satisfy the maximum agenda of anyone, but we should still talk. And yes, normalcy doesn't mean lack of gunfire, but more normalcy in the larger sense.

You have over simplified the things and are virtually quoting GoI verbatim which actually is a flimsy excuse for 'INACTION'.

See the GoI(basically the same bunch, albeit with a different mascot) lost the plot through 80-90s itslef when TSP was overtly supporting terrorists in the valley, at that time the Gobermund was literally begging in front of international community to pressurize pak hence lost an ideal opportunity to pull the trigger, give a nice thrashing to TSP and flattening the PoK. It was a time when likes of 'Alfaran' were active in the valley and locals were actually appreciative of the presence of Indian forces it was an ideal time to repeal the article 370 and actually impose a president's rule in the state.The hurriyat and JKLF members could have been dealt with as any 'mature' nation deals with dissidents i.e. waste the ones that are too rigid and make the rest fall in line but that was too much to ask for, no ?


See the present mess did not come into being overnight , it has just like other systemic ailments of our nation worsened over decades due to sheer indifference of the GoI.

Kashmir deserves a chance at peace, which probably 2 generations there haven't seen. The Indian govt should do it's part and do the best it can , along with the civil society groups in India.

No just such abstract statements won't do , now that you have shown interest kindly let us know what do you mean by second chance ? From my vantage point it appears you think this is some cold/flu which would pass away with time .

Yes, the BJP can absolutely be a part of the solution . But it seems hell bent on creating new problems and rekindling the fires that seem to be dying down, all for what, more electoral issues to sow and reap.Sorry. Shameful to say the least.

Lets take a step back , for a moment if we assume BJP would not have embarked upon this 'yatra' do you think situation would have been any better ? What did GoI manage to do in last 2-3 years in the valley without these so called antics of BJP ? Who let the separatists and their supporters fan sentiments in the valley over 'Sopore killings', or let the entire gang of stone-pelters operate with so much freedom ? You seem to get irked by someone who says the right thing a bit loudly but never said a word when the actual culprits were instigating the locals in the valley.

Gurudev I am surprised that this comes from an erudite member like you.

[Vikas]

OK Folks. Jamwal ji and Me both are denizens of state of J&K. Would all those who are having trouble with BJP hoisting tricolor in Lal chowk be happy and dandy and support us if Jamwal ji and me hoist national flag in Lal chowk.
After all we cannot be construed as invading force ( Whatever that meant vina ji ).
I need to understand if the problem is with BJP hoisting the national flag or with hoisting of the tricolor ?

I too initially started arguing against the Yatra but I guess on this issue I am wiling to accept that I was totally wrong.

[Sri]

This is a master stroke by BJP. Forces people to take sides thats all.

BJP is in opposition and right wing party. They have put their agenda on table. OA and MMS are trying to work out a solution right? Don't you think right wing India should be a party to it too? Till now they have been ignored on very many issues. They are trying to come table exactly like separatists... through street power. If people of India want, they can decide whether or not to vote for BJP next time in elections. Even if right to center parties are not in power they do represent a sizable section of society that should not be ignored. Very democratic indeed.

[Venkarl]

Okay...With the kind of determination UPA and OA are showing...and stooping way down to tactics like diverting trains....one can say UPA will rope in everything it has in its stock to prevent Indian flag hoisting at Lal CHowk....and it is clear to me that Yatra folks won't make up to Valley by 26th Jan.....but What if Geelanis, Maliks and KMs in valley gear up with stones, tires and kerosene bombs against CRPF battalion hoisting the flag at Lal Chowk? ....keep mum and use interlocutors....

bottom line is we are shit scared cowards...

[amit]

I need to understand if the problem is with BJP hoisting the national flag or with hoisting of the tricolor ?

IMHO, this is a very good question.

If it's a question of hoisting the National Flag, then what about the one that's going to be hoisted at the stadium? As far as I know there is only one official hoisting of the National Flag in every state capital, apart from the one in New Delhi for the entire country. But that does not mean only one Tricolour is hoisted in every capital, in fact hundreds are.

So if we do take the one at the stadium to be the official flag hoisting in Srinagar, then what BJP wants to do at Lal Chowk is the hoisting of the Tricolour. Of course as an Indian I feel proud at any flag hoisting ceremony and I'm sure every one else here does too.

But the question is if, as media reports say, the CPRF is hoisting the Tricolour at Lal Chowk, then where does that leave the BJP?

[vina]

Would all those who are having trouble with BJP hoisting tricolor in Lal chowk be happy and dandy and support us if Jamwal ji and me hoist national flag in Lal chowk.
After all we cannot be construed as invading force ( Whatever that meant vina ji ).

That is the sanest argument I have heard in this entire thread. What you and your fellow pundits should have done is to put together a group and put in a formal application to the Govt of J&K and the GOI for security and permission for raising the flag on Jan26th at Lal Chowk and got together some 1000 strong group , shot off a copy to TOI (let ), Al-Hundi , Undie TV, Times Now etc and every TV channel and given some tag line such as "Kashmiris, going home to raise the flag on Republic day" , made a song and dance, and then see the red faces from the J&K Govt, the Hurry-rats, the central govt and everyone and see the dilemma and hand wringing on what to do. The Hurry- Rats of the Gilani persuasion would have an incredible difficulty trying to explain to the mango man on the ground why you could not come in and do what you wanted to do. Undie TV and Times Now would have got the sound bites, a non stop spectacle to show on TV, Boorqa Aunty would have gone into her usual hysterics and hystronics, there would have been a "Big Fight" on this on Undie TV, Arnab Goswami would have droned on and on.. a nice media

Then you could have done a big yatra with song and dance and bollywood din-chak and tamasha and patriotic songs and everything blaring out in a kilometer long procession with food and booze and everything ,slowly winding it's way from Dilli to Sopore/Baramulla/LOC and the tip of the valley and back to Srinagar, and getting your message out all along the way. Very difficult not to join a party.. Get some star power. How about roping Katrina Kaif, Mahesh Bhatt, Anupam Kher and other Kashmiri origin Bollywood busy bodys and dudes like Suresh Raina and Virat Kohli (is he Kashmiri?) and others .. Dude, it is very difficult for a boring old stiff like Gilani to fight that .. What are you going to tell a kid.. don't go to that party , stay at home and put your head in Musharraf?

By making it a BJP function, you injected politics and most importantly sectarian Hindu/Muslim politics into it and shot yourself in the foot.

[AbhishekD]

The liberal establishment needs an excuse to shift the blame towards the hindu right. BJP's yatra is not the cause of the problem in Kashmir. Just to lets liberals know that. This problem is a product of 60 years of a misguided policy followed by the liberal establishment.

Kashmir is an integral part of India and their is no difference between kashmir and other parts of India. Kashmiris once they decided to accede to India have to abide by India's constitution. The accession was done under special conditions but that does not take away from the fact of under pakistani attack kashmiris decided to join India and not join pakistan or defend itself till the last man. I am sure that if kashmiris would not have signed the accession treaty and fought the pakistani army till the last man no nation in the world could have subjugated them with the largest army at hand.

After acceding they cannot change the status. Period

[Sanku]

bottom line is we are shit scared cowards...

The shit scared cowards who do nothing against Arundhati Roy and Geelani and other seccesionist suddenly develop muscles to shoot Gurjars, to turn back trains, and generally murder Indians like SPM for raising the Indian flags in India.

No they are not cowards, merely their idea of what is good for India is different from rest of us.

They think that Indian remaining slaves and they our brown sahib masters ruling us on behalf of others and passing on the tribute (after their cut of course) is "good" for India and Indians. To that end they are willing to kill as many of us who think otherwise.

[amit]

Okay...With the kind of determination UPA and OA are showing...and stooping way down to tactics like diverting trains....one can say UPA will rope in everything it has in its stock to prevent Indian flag hoisting at Lal CHowk....and it is clear to me that Yatra folks won't make up to Valley by 26th Jan.....but What if Geelanis, Maliks and KMs in valley gear up with stones, tires and kerosene bombs against CRPF battalion hoisting the flag at Lal Chowk? ....keep mum and use interlocutors....

bottom line is we are shit scared cowards...

Boss you start with a what if... and then conclude we are shit scared cowards?

[Sanku]

By making it a BJP function, you injected politics and most importantly sectarian Hindu/Muslim politics into it.

Oh another one of Menon s variety.

In our democracy you can align with any party as long as its Congress.

You can vote for anyone as long as the name is Rahul

Sorry boss, the communal cowards who say "minorities have first right on nation" from Redfort, have no business handing out certificates to anyone.

[amit]

The liberal establishment needs an excuse to shift the blame towards the hindu right. BJP's yatra is not the cause of the problem in Kashmir. Just to lets liberals know that. This problem is a product of 60 years of a misguided policy followed by the liberal establishment.

Kashmir is an integral part of India and their is no difference between kashmir and other parts of India. Kashmiris once they decided to accede to India have to abide by India's constitution. The accession was done under special conditions but that does not take away from the fact of under pakistani attack kashmiris decided to join India and not join pakistan or defend itself till the last man. I am sure that if kashmiris would not have signed the accession treaty and fought the pakistani army till the last man no nation in the world could have subjugated them with the largest army at hand.

After acceding they cannot change the status. Period

I think it is useful to remember that the National Flag will be raised in Srinagar on Wednesday. The question/argument/view (take your pick) is BJP's decision to hold a party function at Lal Chowk to raise the Tricolour.

Of course this is not say that the BJP or any other party or Indian does not have the right to hoist the Tricolour. But IMO it is wrong to imply that if the BJP is prevented from raising the flag at Lal Chowk, no Tricolour will be unfurled in Srinagar.

[Venkarl]

Amit Boss I started with a what if.......keep mum and use interlocutors.... and then concluded..we are shit scared cowards

[amit]

Incidentally has the BJP invited any other political party to join it in its attempt to hoist the Tricolour at Lal Chowk? I would have thought that something like this should transcend party politics.

[abhishek_sharma]

BJP to Omar: Join us in hoisting the flag

http://www.hindustantimes.com/BJP-to-Om ... 53320.aspx

[Sri]

Sri wrote:

OA and MMS are trying to work out a solution right?

Which, according to you, is?

I dunno Sir.

But th argument here is that since interlocutors and GOI is working on a formula, BJP shouldn't rock the boat.

All I am saying is that if the above is happening. And a sizable amount of political establishment in India is kept in dark on it then, BJP is doing the right thing to come to table by whatever means.

Difficult to trust the GOI, congress and yes MMS on these issues. They my arrive at a formula and force it down our throats too....

[Venkarl]

Incidentally has the BJP invited any other political party to join it in its attempt to hoist the Tricolour at Lal Chowk? I would have thought that something like this should transcend party politics.

Hell with BJP and politics, why not INC or Left? what are they scared of?

[svinayak]

This is a master stroke by BJP. Forces people to take sides thats all.

Back ground work has been going on for more than a year for this

[amit]

Amit Boss I started with a what if.......keep mum and use interlocutors.... and then concluded..we are shit scared cowards

Well boss my apologies but I read it as:

"What if" is an assumption and that makes "keep mum and use interlocutors" also an assumption (a hypothetical reaction to an hypothetical incident).

But "we are shit scared cowards" seemed to be the all familiar dhoti-shivering self-flagellation.

[amit]

BJP to Omar: Join us in hoisting the flag

http://www.hindustantimes.com/BJP-to-Om ... 53320.aspx

But as the CM, shouldn't Omar be at the official flag hoisting ceremony? Can he or should he skip that for this?

Also I wasn't look at personal invites but other political parties, like for example NDA allies, as part of the entire organisation of this event. INC is anti-national but what about the other parties, especially the allies?

[amit]

Hell with BJP and politics, why not INC or Left? what are they scared of?

Forget the Left, they are anti-national. As regards the INC, whether we like it or not, its politics. If it weren't the BJP could have continued this tradition every year since it did (and bravely too, I must add, Joshi got injured) in 1992.

If this had been kept as tradition then Lal Chowk by now would have been the official site for flag hoisting in Srinagar, IMHO.

[Venkarl]

Well a Flag Hoisting@Lal Chowk may be followed by a Muslim Backlash is also an assumption

But "we are shit scared cowards" seemed to be the all familiar dhoti-shivering self-flagellation.

How true

[abhishek_sharma]

Make flag-hoisting at Srinagar all-party event: Gadkari

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/131 ... r-all.html

[Venkarl]

Hell with BJP and politics, why not INC or Left? what are they scared of?

Forget the Left, they are anti-national. As regards the INC, whether we like it or not, its politics. If it weren't the BJP could have continued this tradition every year since it did (and bravely too, I must add, Joshi got injured) in 1992.

If this had been kept as tradition then Lal Chowk by now would have been the official site for flag hoisting in Srinagar, IMHO.

Wow..now the brick falls on to the folks who took the initiative

[amit]

Make flag-hoisting at Srinagar all-party event: Gadkari

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/131 ... r-all.html

I'm confused by Gadkari's statement:

BJP president Nitin Gadkari has justified the BJP Yuva Morcha Kashmir Yatra to hoist the national flag in Srinagar and appealed to the Congress party as well as the National Conference to join his party and make it an all-party event.

Is he saying that if BJP is unable to hoist the National Flag at Lal Chowk, no flag hoisting will take place in Srinagar?

[Arjun]

Based on the PIL filed by industrialist Naveen Jindal in 2002, the Supreme Court has clearly mandated that flying the national flag is a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to every citizen of India, subject to certain standard provisions.

It is therefore the duty of the government to protect the fundamental rights of its citizens, and in cases where it may see any issues with such a hoisting the attitude should be - the hoisting needs to be protected as a fundamental and inalienable right, BUT the government will work with the concerned party on guidelines and measures to follow for the hoisting so as to prevent any major repercussion if at all feared.

[amit]

Wow..now the brick falls on to the folks who took the initiative

Nope no brick, just pointing out the facts. You don't take the initiative for the same thing twice - with a span of 19 years in between. That would imply one of these initiatives was a failure or gimmick.

[vina]

BJP president Nitin Gadkari has justified the BJP Yuva Morcha Kashmir Yatra to hoist the national flag in Srinagar and appealed to the Congress party as well as the National Conference to join his party and make it an all-party event.

Some one should remind that buffoon that there IS a ceremony scheduled right there in Srinagar and that he along with his party's grand panjandrums should attend that event and drop this circus at lal chwok.

[abhishek_sharma]

That "buffoon" knows that he has a right to hoist the flag separately. Moreover, flag hoisting is hardly a "circus".

[Venkarl]

Wow..now the brick falls on to the folks who took the initiative

Nope no brick, just pointing out the facts. You don't take the initiative for the same thing twice - with a span of 19 years in between.

Yes this is not the initiative...Initiative was taken in 1992...it is a reminder now....btw kargil happened in between....incidentally or lets say unfortunately{to please anti-BJP folks}..it was BJP all 3 times...

[vina]

Vina wrote:

long procession with food and booze and everything

Have booze on the way and then land up dead drunk to hoist the Indian flag at Lal Chowk? Is that what you are suggesting?

No.. No. What I meant is in the run up to Jan 26, for the preceding 2 weeks or so, have a bash at every town of consequence around the valley and let the food and booze flow. Make now allowance for the Gilani type stiffs. Be in your face, thumb their noses at them with "this is how we are .. handle it!", with dancing wimmin and "uncovered" wimmin, men and wimmin together, throw a huge huge party, invite Pee Pee Cee, See Yen Yen and other global trash and make it a big event and get the local kids in (all the while talking in kashmiri, heck the kids in their 20s would probably have not seen a single Hindu in their lives until then.. show them that the Hindoos are not the "orrible monsters that the Gilani stiffs and Islamist nut cases make them out to be..) kind of thing , usual stuff. No one would have been able to put a spanner in that sort of stuff.

That would have been a far far better thing to do and lot easier to make friends and influence people rather than a shock troop like force of BJP nutters and their sectarian hate baggage could have accomplished.