Artillery: News & Discussion

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Jan 2017 12:36

we should have a spot the differences competition?

nits · Post by **nits** » 20 Jan 2017 13:18

Unless they Fire and meet the Technical Requirements the Looks does not matter

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 20 Jan 2017 13:42

ramana wrote:Rohitvats I want to hear about fuzes for all these guns.
Who makes them? What types? How many have been ordered?

Ankur Gupta shares an EY quarterly report on Defence RFI/RFPs.
It has a bunch of items including fuzes (issued by either ARDE or OFB Dehu Rd).
http://www.slideshare.net/agcool/eye-on ... e-oct-2016

Something of interest: www.academia.edu/11722330/Electronic_Time_Fuze_Design

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 21 Jan 2017 20:39

Electronic fuzes were imported and sold with Indian PSU label to Army. When scandal broke out, the PSU raised its hands and said that they cannot produce electronic fuzes. Then mechanical fuzes that were declared outdated, to help imports were brought back and are being produced by OFB. Some work going on for developing and manufacturing electronic fuzes also.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Jan 2017 21:58

tata and a company in bengal also make the fuzes. i posted on it awhile back.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Jan 2017 06:04

What is interesting is that the barrels on the two guns are IDENTICAL.
What is different is the muzzle vel radar, the computer housing. There seems to be a ?INS mounted on a vibration proofed (ring wire system) on top of the guidance computer.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jan 2017 08:00

who is making the barrels? perhaps tata is sourcing it from bharat forge? other than bharat forge and ofb I dont think anyone makes arty barrels in india?

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 24 Jan 2017 10:49

there was a program on India TV about artillery and dhanush yesterday. The presenter said Dhanush is still facing some issues? any idea what is it?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Jan 2017 10:50

^^^^OFB

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jan 2017 12:13

Singha wrote:who is making the barrels? perhaps tata is sourcing it from bharat forge? other than bharat forge and ofb I dont think anyone makes arty barrels in india?

Barrels for ATAGs (both versions) and Dhanush 155/52 are all from OFB.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 24 Jan 2017 15:19

If the barrel is ofb, what's L&T and other players bringing to the table? Ignorant and curious.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 24 Jan 2017 15:42

Indranil wrote:
Singha wrote:who is making the barrels? perhaps tata is sourcing it from bharat forge? other than bharat forge and ofb I dont think anyone makes arty barrels in india?
Barrels for ATAGs (both versions) and Dhanush 155/52 are all from OFB.

Ajai Shukla in his report had mentioned, Kalyani will also make Barrels - "The Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) won the tender to manufacture gun barrels, along with forgings giant, the Kalyani Group."

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2016/12/i ... rials.html

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 24 Jan 2017 18:32

ATAGS video, courtesy Livefist

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 24 Jan 2017 19:04

JTull wrote:ATAGS video, courtesy Livefist

[youtub]ZaA5tiyU-dM[/youtub]

This is some TFTA style $hyt , absolutely love it

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jan 2017 19:44

looks like in that test with 2 guns both were tested together head to head for range and firing rate.

imagine what a regiment of 18 could do in fire for effect mode...wouldnt want to be at the other end.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jan 2017 20:05

JTull wrote:ATAGS video, courtesy Livefist

Love the shockwave at 33 sec

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Jan 2017 20:43

I am sure in high alt trials a lot of issues will be found with the range tables and firing charges. Because of the atmospheric conditions. I would love to see how the issue of gun overshooting the target will be solved by the DRDO and IA.

As the 39 cal barrel overshoots by 10 km. Just how much the 52 cal will overshoot.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Jan 2017 20:55

Video

Defenders of India: Meet the men behind the big guns
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/defe ... 64216.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Jan 2017 21:26

Two Made-in-India howitzers on display this Republic Day:
DRDO's Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) & the OFB's Dhanush.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/823521522065227778

With the Guided Pinaka tests, India's Pinaka rocket system consistently proving what an excellent system it is.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/823825526146015232

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Jan 2017 21:52

India's Indigenous Artillery Gun 'Dhanush' To Be Showcased At Republic Day Parade For The First Time
http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2017/01/23 ... sed-at-re/

He said, "Unlike Dhanush, ATAGS has been designed from scratch keeping in view the present and future tactical battlefield requirements. It incorporates a number of superior features besides a longer, high-capacity gun barrel for increased range, accuracy and barrel life. ATAGS boasts of an advanced Recoil System for compactness, an all electric Servo drive for reliable and maintenance free operation and Inertial Land Navigation System for accurate positioning of Gun."

"ATAGS' Auto Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) capability is a unique feature allowing user to deliver a shocking and devastating attack on enemy. Future ready, the Gun is also capable of firing precision guided munitions (PGMs). Private industries of the country have participated significantly in development of ATAG and its manufacture in large numbers will be a boost to both, Army's much needed fire power and indigenous manufacturing capabilities," he added.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Jan 2017 22:13

That video is amazing!!! Gives an idea on the sheer length of the barrel to guys like me..

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Jan 2017 22:24

Bala Saar, Jugal Purohit`s (a reporter) small documentary on the Dhanush Artillery...

Exclusive: The story behind Dhanush, India's first self-made long-range artillery gun
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/excl ... ce=DEC2016

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jan 2017 00:14

Cybaru wrote:If the barrel is ofb, what's L&T and other players bringing to the table? Ignorant and curious.

Integration.
Its capital intensive to set up a long barrel forging press and ancillaries.

And OFB can achieve economies of scale for the barrel making facility.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jan 2017 00:30

Pratyush wrote:I am sure in high alt trials a lot of issues will be found with the range tables and firing charges. Because of the atmospheric conditions. I would love to see how the issue of gun overshooting the target will be solved by the DRDO and IA.

As the 39 cal barrel overshoots by 10 km. Just how much the 52 cal will overshoot.

Are you sure its by that much?

I believe at high altitude, the extra flight path is due to the reduced supersonic drag which is a function of length of the shell and the Mach number which is a function of the charge bags i.e. the energy imparted.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jan 2017 00:33

Does this overshooting brings Skardu in range from nearest LOC point ?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Jan 2017 01:24

Revive Bhim. It's time. Go the ATAGS way: CVRDE designs. Avadi+private partners manufacture. L&T already has a competitor. Let the others join the party.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Jan 2017 01:37

Cold start also needs a truck mounted, highly mobile 105mm field artillery gun.
Each advancing party takes care of any local resistance / troop concentration it meets.

Something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRaMiC6AjXo

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jan 2017 01:46

Defenders Of India: Story Of India's Deadly Artillery

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 25 Jan 2017 05:14

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jan 2017 07:40

Ramana you are right as to the reasons for extra range. When it is about unadjusted fire at high altitude. It is after adjustments that the correct ranges are arrived at.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2017 08:07

Noko has a hugely long barrel mounted on a Tseries chassis per some videos of mass firepower demos.

this here is the mighty 170mm koksan

from 15:00 a mass of these guns on a beach go into rageboy mode , and the commentator gets even more excited and wrathful

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2017 08:12

obviously they have done some engineering on the T-series chassis to make it stable and durable for this huge gun.
but I do agree a arjun chassis would be more suitable for the task and generate local work as well.

but the engine and drivetrain would need relocating to the front somewhere like all SP guns have the back clear for the turret and ammo storage...not sure how the Bhim thing worked

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jan 2017 08:19

Singha wrote: this here is the mighty 170mm koksan

Looks like NoKo has a longer Koksan than anyone else

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jan 2017 09:20

Avinandan wrote:

Looking at the video I count space for 6 shells in the tray under the load handling crane. With the crane having capacity of 3 shells.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Jan 2017 10:58

Singha wrote:obviously they have done some engineering on the T-series chassis to make it stable and durable for this huge gun.
but I do agree a arjun chassis would be more suitable for the task and generate local work as well. but the engine and drivetrain would need relocating to the front somewhere like all SP guns have the back clear for the turret and ammo storage...not sure how the Bhim thing worked

Initially, when the army was hunting for SP, they wanted the gun to be mounted on T-72 chassis. Even the Denel gun was mounted on the T-72. But the trials showed that T-72 hull was not able to take sustained firing and developed issues. That is how Arjun came into picture.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2017 11:10

Noko trump card to survive is use a mass of heavy artillery hidden in caves and reverse slopes to lay waste to industry and towns in northern belt of Soko...not exactly Seoul CBD in range but outlying industrial estates for sure. the berms, mines, ditches, ATGMs on the DMZ will ensure superior american and soko armour will not find the going easy to penetrate directly and a more ponderous USMC invasion might be needed on both coasts to make any progress. they have a huge army, led by fanatical loyalists.

they are more competent and dangerous than they look for sure. links with cheen and iran are shadowy and hard to nail down exactly how much x-pollination takes place.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 25 Jan 2017 11:22

Singha wrote:they have a huge army, led by fanatical loyalists.

That they do. But it's also an army of not very well fed conscripts. However, the numbers have a quality of their own.

It's not the NoKo artillery or soldiers that's preventing SoKo and US troops from marching on to Pyongyang. It's China and the potential onslaught of hungry, teeming refugees who'll flood across the border(s) that will render the refugee influx into Europe appear like a Kindergarten class on a field trip in comparison.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2017 11:46

my question was most of the day1 SP guns seem to have a full size "loading door" in back where the engine is located in MBTs through which people and ammo get into the turret. they mount a smallish engine on the front, beside the driver.
conversion jobs like T72 and Bhim would take the drop-in turret but loading would need to be via a couple of people passing the shells up from the ground - a pretty tiring job in the cold and 50kg shells x 70-100 shells in the mag.
the K9 thunder seems to use a K10 automated reload vehicle with a telescoping arm that feeds in shells directly into a hole at back of its turret. the 1000hp engine is still in the back but seems to have been cleverly split into two halves , pushed out to the sides, leaving a door for the crew to use conveniently from the back...this is simply not viable in T72/bhim

http://i.imgur.com/kow6ynt.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/s ... k_side.jpg

the pzh2k has these BMP style doors in back
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x214 ... mpf024.jpg

M109 has it
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5445/945 ... 4b6d_b.jpg

So using the Arjun as-is is not a optimal conversion. a small engine etc will need to be found to permit the barn door
as a workaround, Denel left open the huge doors on back and side of turret

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... ZrT3Z9keDk

nits · Post by **nits** » 25 Jan 2017 12:17

Not sure if this was posted earlier - Video of DRDO developed Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) In Action

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Jan 2017 12:25

Good show by NoKO.They like the Iranians are steadil;y improving their hone-built weapon systems and are proving innovative.What's the famous saying? "Necessity is the mother of invention".