Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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KLNMurthy
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by KLNMurthy »

nachiket wrote:
Arjun wrote:Yes I had read that piece....Was actually glad in a way, to perceive the abysmally low standards for Philosophy 'gurus' in the US !! Even the liberal arts dodos from India come away looking like geniuses in comparison with this woman - who seems to be nuttier than a fruitcake.

A quasi-Islamist party like the Congress is termed 'soft Hindutva' and the secularism of Modi she wants to cast as hard-core 'Talibanic' Hindoootva... :roll:
Oh forget the Congress and Modi, if she "admires" economic programs crafted by the Jean Dreze, that itself tells us how nutty she really is.
She shouldn't be dismissed. She is a vicious and dangerous enemy. We have suffered a lot from people like that. Look at Sonia Gandhi: a very dumb and ignorant woman, but very determined, ambitious and vindictive. She has single handedly ruined India.

Please, let us spare a moment to question our own biases in analysis. Do we have a tendency to think like "smart students", i.e., feel like we have "won" when the opponent is exposed as being not as smart as us in studies and thinking?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

KLNMurthy wrote:She shouldn't be dismissed. She is a vicious and dangerous enemy. We have suffered a lot from people like that. Look at Sonia Gandhi: a very dumb and ignorant woman, but very determined, ambitious and vindictive. She has single handedly ruined India.

Please, let us spare a moment to question our own biases in analysis. Do we have a tendency to think like "smart students", i.e., feel like we have "won" when the opponent is exposed as being not as smart as us in studies and thinking?
Well, Sonia is both dumb as well as in THE most powerful position in India - that certainly makes her extremely dangerous !

Martha - I am more dismissive of than I would have been in the past. Her power is only through her columns & books (other than the administrative power she holds at her Univ...) - and whereas in the past her views would have held sway among the Macaulytes, Rajiv Malhotra and others have sufficiently unmasked her that I don't know which set is going to be influenced by her views today.
Last edited by Arjun on 16 Dec 2013 21:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krishnan »

Ranjit Pandey
• 14 hours ago

i am frm Bhagalpur and worked in rural areas last 4 yrs.
This study is very accurate. Nitish is now called Nitishuddin and castist. vast contrast to when he was with BJP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Arjunji,

I feel the most powerful person in the government right now is Ahmed Patel. This guy is low key and advises Sonia. While she takes all the hits now he sits in the background comfortably.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

indeed. nobody seems to know anything about him or how he rose so close to power ...a sith lord / rasputin maybe?

a easy way to control the press in india is use discretionary quotas meant for 'eminent people' to give them valuable plots of land or govt auction flats for free. in karnataka, anyone with contacts has cornered some of these coveted BDA corner plots which were retained by BDA and not granted to their mainly govt employee owners in allotment. here and there powerful cabals cornered certain sectors all for themselves even in 1st allotment...like there are couple of roads opp the HSR bda complex were karnataka cadre IAS officers took all the plots and have built graceful houses. I actually visited the home of one such gent briefly for another reason and you should see the quality of construction, the handicrafts, shrubs, flowers....current land value alone is 10,000/sqft. every Govt has used such quotas to grant land to relatives and chelas of ministers and other people who need to be brought online.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Singha wrote:indeed. nobody seems to know anything about him or how he rose so close to power ...a sith lord / rasputin maybe?
Singhaji,

Almost every single person sitting in soniajis cabinet including herself is under attack. I've never heard a damn word echoed against this fellow. Definitely a chanakya. Hides in the shadows but pulls the strings.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem Kumar »

<self deleted>
Last edited by Prem Kumar on 16 Dec 2013 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem Kumar »

RoyG wrote:
Can't disclose Modi-Vajpayee letters during Gujarat riots, says PM's Office
He doesn't want to release them because it will severely damage the credibility of the cottage industry centered around defaming Modi. :mrgreen:
Exactly! If there was even a slightly incriminating word against Modi in there, we can be damn sure that it would have been leaked (or sold to the highest media bidder as a scoop/exclusive)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem Kumar »

Ramana - deleted
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

Prem
Thanks, ramana
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

singha brings in an important point that is another of my pet peve (theo's words) in addition to merit based society.. the RE sector is the root cause of all corruption in indic society.. even the best of the breed eye eye chais and eye eye yums hesitate to move in and zero on these arrested development and hapazard growth filled with total black money.

land regulations, can change indian landspace. if aap can't think about it, then only one man can do it. now, i am even concerned there.. i doubt even in this very forum, when i asked the same question to folks, none took a step to clean the RE sector. that shows, how deep is our corruption infection, without even knowing about it, has seeped in, mingled and became friendly to even honest humble citizens, and now where it made 1 billion fekus and pappoos are looking for change onlee, without knowing their farbic color will look disfigured soon by blindly voting for corruption free society!

honestly, i think corruption can be removed only when all - 100% accept a solution, and not this hodge podge voting pattern. dilli example has given us only problem scenario for 2014, with people having no clue to future. they don't want to give away this free black money that comes from RE sector.. cause, their friends have gained and become rich, why not them?

of course there are other ways to remove corruption.. but that is as good as creating a new country.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

SaiK wrote:singha brings in an important point that is another of my pet peve (theo's words) in addition to merit based society.. the RE sector is the root cause of all corruption in indic society.. even the best of the breed eye eye chais and eye eye yums hesitate to move in and zero on these arrested development and hapazard growth filled with total black money.

land regulations, can change indian landspace. if aap can't think about it, then only one man can do it. now, i am even concerned there.. i doubt even in this very forum, when i asked the same question to folks, none took a step to clean the RE sector. that shows, how deep is our corruption infection, without even knowing about it, has seeped in, mingled and became friendly to even honest humble citizens, and now where it made 1 billion fekus and pappoos are looking for change onlee, without knowing their farbic color will look disfigured soon by blindly voting for corruption free society!

honestly, i think corruption can be removed only when all - 100% accept a solution, and not this hodge podge voting pattern. dilli example has given us only problem scenario for 2014, with people having no clue to future. they don't want to give away this free black money that comes from RE sector.. cause, their friends have gained and become rich, why not them?

of course there are other ways to remove corruption.. but that is as good as creating a new country.
Your frustration is understandable. However, a tax code overhaul and a few changes to the financial and accounting intelligence bodies can minimize the incentive drastically.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by KLNMurthy »

Arjun wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:She shouldn't be dismissed. She is a vicious and dangerous enemy. We have suffered a lot from people like that. Look at Sonia Gandhi: a very dumb and ignorant woman, but very determined, ambitious and vindictive. She has single handedly ruined India.

Please, let us spare a moment to question our own biases in analysis. Do we have a tendency to think like "smart students", i.e., feel like we have "won" when the opponent is exposed as being not as smart as us in studies and thinking?
Well, Sonia is both dumb as well as in THE most powerful position in India - that certainly makes her extremely dangerous !

Martha - I am more dismissive of than I would have been in the past. Her power is only through her columns & books (other than the administrative power she holds at her Univ...) - and whereas in the past her views would have held sway among the Macaulytes, Rajiv Malhotra and others have sufficiently unmasked her that I don't know which set is going to be influenced by her views today.
Think of communal violence bill: it is presented as a good and moral thing, requires a clear thinking analytical mind to expose it for the pernicious thing it is. Most influential pols and mediapeople never do their own analysis, they will just cut and paste the ideas of someone like Nussbaum.

With NAC we have even less of a system with room for honest debate. We just have a nomenklatura which is ruthless in crushing dissent.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

Image
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anmol »

On fox news sites front page:
Image
Man poised to lead India barred from entering US

Judson Berger

By Judson Berger
• Published December 16, 2013
• FoxNews.com


The man poised to lead India -- one of America's staunchest allies in Asia and a nation of more than a billion people -- cannot even legally enter the United States.

In what has triggered a quiet battle on Capitol Hill, advocacy groups and lawmakers are drawing attention to the case of India's Narendra Modi. Though the powerful politician is the front-runner in India's elections next year, he was denied a U.S. visa in 2005 over deadly riots in his state.

This leaves the State Department with a difficult choice -- lift the ban and anger human rights groups while triggering a potential legal battle, or keep the ban and cause a rift with India, one of the United States' closest allies.

"It cannot be possible that you do not give visa to the prime minister of a country," one of Modi's party colleagues, Shatrughan Sinha, was recently quoted as saying.

The trouble with Modi dates back to 2002. Shortly after he was appointed chief minister of the state of Gujarat, a group of Muslims attacked a train carrying Hindus, setting it on fire and killing dozens of people. What resulted were some of the deadliest ethnic riots in India's history. Hindu mobs attacked Muslims throughout the state, and by most estimates more than 1,000 people were killed.

In a controversy that has trailed his political career, Modi was accused by human rights groups of doing little to quell the violence. When he sought to travel to the United States in 2005, a bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers penned a resolution condemning him for "condoning or inciting bigotry."

Shortly afterward, the State Department denied him a visa, on the grounds of a section of U.S. law barring any foreign official deemed responsible for "severe violations of religious freedom."

Fast forward to today. Modi's party, BJP, just pulled off huge victories in key state elections and is seen as the front-runner for next year's elections -- making Modi, who has cultivated a reputation as a pro-business dynamo, the front-runner to be the next prime minister.

The State Department is staying rather mum on its next move, though its assessment in April 2012 did not bode well for Modi.

Asked by a reporter about Modi's visa status, then-spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said: "I think you know that our position on the visa issue hasn't changed at all." She predicted a position "along familiar lines."

Spokeswoman Marie Harf, asked again about Modi this past September, said "there's no change in our longstanding visa policy."

"He is welcome to apply for a visa and await a review like any other applicant. That review will be, of course, grounded in U.S. law," she said.

The last time around, U.S. law deemed Modi persona non grata. But it undoubtedly would be difficult for the State Department to make the same call if Modi becomes prime minister.

India has been central to President Obama's "pivot" to Asia.

The president, in a move that made major headlines abroad, in 2010 endorsed India's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council. Obama's first State Dinner, in 2009, was for Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

There could be no such honor for Modi if he can't win approval to enter Washington.

But many human rights activists and scholars still want to see Modi barred, and feel he has wrongly escaped punishment or blame for the 2002 riots.

"I think that he should be sanctioned," Nina Shea, director of the Center for Religious Freedom with the Hudson Institute, told FoxNews.com.

Shea said that, for those urging the ban stay in place, the "critical period" is before next year's election. "To lift the ban would almost be a kind of endorsement that he is an internationally respected leader," she said.

Foreign Policy reported that anti-Modi groups are preparing a legal challenge if Modi travels to the U.S.

A bipartisan group of lawmakers in Congress also has rallied to draw attention to Modi ahead of the elections. A House resolution sponsored by Rep. Joe Pitts, R-Pa., "commends" the U.S. government for denying Modi a visa in 2005, and urges it to use the "same standard" going forward.

But various pro-Modi groups, and some lawmakers, have spoken out against that measure. The U.S. India Political Action Committee recently charged it was meant to "influence" the Indian election and released a statement from House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce, R-Calif., saying the resolution "runs counter to all the hard work that the American people, particularly those in the Indian American community, have done to improve the [U.S.-India] relationship."

Shea said she believes the hardliner nationalist strain within Modi's party has become "very pronounced" and their rise could lead to greater conflict. However, she predicted that in the end, if Modi becomes prime minister, the visa ban "would probably come off."
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

Must be feeling very cold. Arrogance is in the water of Delhi and Khejiri has 700 free liters of it.

I do not see a reason for us to worry if Khan is not ready to deal with Modi. Any resolution on Modi in US Congress will only result in angering Indian public and make it impossible for US to deal with Modi lead Indian government. This will seriously hurt US security and business interest.

The worst thing is this begger master relationship we are having with U.S. End of it will free us from lot of things including imports of maal from Khan and masala eating in defence. Modi anyway committed himself for local defence production. Once we concentrate on that then show some serious capabilities Khan will come begging.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

I sincerely hope the great khan over-reaches in its preachiness and sanctimoniously sanctions NM permanently.

NM in turn can declare his intention of not seeking a US visa in the foreseeable future. End of story. Both parties win. Yay!

And NM can remain an Indian leader (hopefully, PM) over who the US exerts the least influence in recent times... :)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

If India starts to grow at 12% the Khan will ask for Visa for India. We need to reach that stage and I am sure NM wants that one only. Power, economic, military is the only law in international relations. Give nothing for the views of any stupid liberal brown jholawala and paid press.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by devesh »

UK must be laughing its a** off. look at how the US is left preaching the moral "high" ground. the wily former-imperium, OTOH, had kept its options open and over the past year has made sure that its channel to Modi remains open.

and US, in all it wisdom, always gets outplayed in these games by their supposed "greatest ally". time after time. and yet learns no lesson.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

I think 2014 will see the Democrats also thrown out in the Senate.
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Post by member_22539 »

devesh wrote:UK must be laughing its a** off. look at how the US is left preaching the moral "high" ground. the wily former-imperium, OTOH, had kept its options open and over the past year has made sure that its channel to Modi remains open.

and US, in all it wisdom, always gets outplayed in these games by their supposed "greatest ally". time after time. and yet learns no lesson.
I have to agree on the UK thing. No matter how pathetic they are these days, they are still more intelligent than the US. Makes one wonder how the US made it up there in the first place.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

Arun Menon wrote: I have to agree on the UK thing. No matter how pathetic they are these days, they are still more intelligent than the US. Makes one wonder how the US made it up there in the first place.
They are not intelligent. They have just kept their options open. One of the reasons is that unlike USA, UK cannot afford to make so many enemies. They are not with the US & not with EU. So they have chart their own course & hence they need as many allies as possible.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^That could be the case, but keeping one's options open in itself is an intelligent move.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krishnan »

Narendra Modi ‏@narendramodi 2m

Refused to meet the visiting USA delegation in solidarity with our nation, protesting ill-treatment meted to our lady diplomat in USA.
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Post by member_22539 »

^Whoa, which lady diplomat is he mentioning (the old case or something new)?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

Fox article mentions Nina Shea being for the ban on Modi.
Here profile is here: http://www.hudson.org/shea
Her most recent book, which she also co-authored, is Persecuted: The Global Assault on Christians (Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2013). She regularly presents testimony before Congress, delivers public lectures, organizes briefings and conferences, and writes frequently on religious freedom issues. Her writings regularly appear on National Review Online and have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, CQ Researcher, HuffingtonPost, and RealClearWorld, among others
.
Yeah. Basically religion = Christian. Once you have that, go on ranting about religious freedom around the world.
Pretty sure the anti-conversion laws which >Congress< put in place (after Niyogi report) which Modi enforced is the main reason.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krishnan »

Arun Menon wrote:^Whoa, which lady diplomat is he mentioning (the old case or something new)?
the new case ...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Laughable this news of any kind of BJP chance in Kerala...

Kerala: Now Oommen Chandy under fire for meeting Modi's promo team
Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy met with Gujarat agriculture minister Babubhai Bokhiria and his 14 member team, who are in the state to organise BJP's promotional activities ahead of the Lok Sabha polls.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Shanmukh »

Hari Seldon wrote:Laughable this news of any kind of BJP chance in Kerala...

Kerala: Now Oommen Chandy under fire for meeting Modi's promo team
Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy met with Gujarat agriculture minister Babubhai Bokhiria and his 14 member team, who are in the state to organise BJP's promotional activities ahead of the Lok Sabha polls.
I would not be so sure. Kerala politics is undergoing some serious changes. First it was George who was hobnobbing with the BJP, now it is Oommen Chandy? There is some serious churning going on just beneath the surface.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^I meant it in a sar-caustic sense onlee, nageshgaru....

Why go paranoid on BJP or NM contact if there was zero danger of BJP getting any traction in Kerala, eh? The Left and UDF over-reaction to anything NM points to palpable fear only.

Esp after NM's visit to the Sivagiri Matth, when a rattled Pinarayi Vijayan bravely sought to declare Narayan Guru as a 'secular' saint, whatever that means...
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Post by Hari Seldon »

Gehlot interview in Rediff starts off very well...
During his tenure as chief minister, the state assembly decreed that former chief ministers be entitled to a government bungalow, personal staff, a car and two security personnel. Gehlot has become the first beneficiary of this scheme. He will soon move to a bungalow which is about 400 metres from the chief minister's bungalow.
Meanwhile Gehlot discovers the secret ingredient in Namo magic...

Ashok Gehlot: The BJP ran a sinister, poisonous campaign
Q:How do you personally evaluate the massive failure of the Congress?

Gehlot: It was a poisonous campaign carried out by Narendra Modi that swept away some communities and youth in the BJPs favour. It was a sinister campaign where the contributions of the Nehru-Gandhi family were ridiculed. I think the first-time voters and the youth are very important elements in electoral politics. We have to get them to our side as they are the lot that create euphoria during the elections. We shall have to build special strategies for all this.
Must be true, after all Gehlot is saying so.

Excerpts from the interview follow... do read to get an inside view of the massive H&D blow the BJP managed to deliver this time...
But how did things go wrong so badly?

Yes, local issues particularly the good job done by the government -- free medicine, subsidised food, women empowerment, free diagnostic tests -- was totally hijacked by the Bharatiya Janata Party. They went on talking about national issues and the BJP's campaign against our government was so intense that the United Progressive Alliance government's failures became major issues and overshadowed the achievements of the state government.

The results showed that the Congress has lost its vote-banks particularly the SC, ST and minorities. How are you going to cover up these losses?

It’s a very serious issue that the Congress did not get a single SC seat out of 34 and out of the 24 ST seats, we could get only four. These seats were won mostly by the BJP. This has never happened before and it’s difficult to comprehend how it happened.

What about the minorities?

This was also a landmark. For the first time the Congress failed to get even a single Muslim candidate elected. This has baffled me as last time there were as many as 10 Muslim victors from the Congress and there were two Muslim winners from the BJP. But while we did not get a single Muslim winner, the BJP's two Muslim candidates won. The candidates have been telling me that even in the case of minority voters there has been an erosion. I did not believe my ears when I first heard it. But the truth has to be accepted.

What happened in your home turf of Marwar?

Leave Marwar. We were rejected across the state and those 21 winners are real good winners who defied the so-called Modi wave and emerged winners on their own strength. I am told in the border districts of Barmer and Jaisalmer, which has a sizable Muslim population, the BJP managed to make a dent and that caused the rout.

How is this that the SCs and STs also did not vote for you? They have been traditionally backing the Congress.

This needs proper study and we need to focus specially on these 59 (reserved) seats.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by harbans »

65 people with Diplomatic Passports wrote to the US to block and insult Modi. When US insulted those with Diplomatic Passports, Modi stood by them. Difference.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by sooraj »

harbans wrote:65 people with Diplomatic Passports wrote to the US to block and insult Modi. When US insulted those with Diplomatic Passports, Modi stood by them. Difference.
spread this msg in twitter
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rahul M »

harbans wrote:65 people with Diplomatic Passports wrote to the US to block and insult Modi. When US insulted those with Diplomatic Passports, Modi stood by them. Difference.
source ? that sounds very strange and if true, a major breach of ethos of civil service.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

Arun Menon wrote:I have to agree on the UK thing. No matter how pathetic they are these days, they are still more intelligent than the US. Makes one wonder how the US made it up there in the first place.
OT: The British are not intelligent. They are crafty. To the core. They know how to play these games and have played it well always.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Aditya_V »

We are tlaking about 65 MP's
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

do all MPs get diplomatic passports - I do not think so...but MPs doing so are even more serious for they are elected guardians of the country, not just a officer doing a specific job . 65 MPs were on the list. full details on these dark knights here.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/full-text-le ... 54-53.html
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rahul M »

do MP's get diplomatic passports (the red ones) ? I think they get the official passports (white ones).
in any case an MP, a political creature is not same as a diplomat.
kindly do not tweet these misleading things.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

US should be sanctioned for "religious invasion and promoting separatist tendencies" in other countries like India thus violating "freedom of faith"!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Rahul M wrote:do MP's get diplomatic passports (the red ones) ? I think they get the official passports (white ones).
in any case an MP, a political creature is not same as a diplomat.
kindly do not tweet these misleading things.
As far as I know not even PM has diplomatic passport! I could be wrong!
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