Indian Roads Thread

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 30 Jun 2009 11:38

WTF are the car weaving in and out through the cones and driving on the wrong side?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2009 11:44

how long did it take from actual start of construction to today?

similar projects in china, korea, japan in take around 3 yrs iirc. the sea here is shallow and not a big challenge imo.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 Jun 2009 11:45

Sometimes even if nature gives way, we humans create bigger blocks

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Jun 2009 12:10

Dileep wrote:WTF are the car weaving in and out through the cones and driving on the wrong side?

The video scenes appear to be after official inauguration, before formal traffic has begun. They still have a bunch of temporary blockades in place.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2009 12:49

I shudder to think what a project like akashi kaikyo or oresund bridge would take in India. perhaps 15+ years.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 30 Jun 2009 14:29

Does anyone know how much the toll is?

manish · Post by **manish** » 30 Jun 2009 14:30

Tanaji wrote:Does anyone know how much the toll is?

Initial reports pegged the toll for cars and light vehicles at Rs. 35 and for heavy vehicles at Rs. 100.

bart · Post by **bart** » 30 Jun 2009 16:29

manish wrote:
Tanaji wrote:Does anyone know how much the toll is?
Initial reports pegged the toll for cars and light vehicles at Rs. 35 and for heavy vehicles at Rs. 100.

Do they have automated system/RFID token type systems like NJ turnpike, at least for some lanes, or does everybody have to queue up to get theirs?

manish · Post by **manish** » 30 Jun 2009 19:40

bart wrote:
manish wrote: Initial reports pegged the toll for cars and light vehicles at Rs. 35 and for heavy vehicles at Rs. 100.
Do they have automated system/RFID token type systems like NJ turnpike, at least for some lanes, or does everybody have to queue up to get theirs?

I think there is an electronic system. Please see below link:
Sonia Gandhi inaugurates Bandra Worli Sea Link

She cut a ribbon in front of one of 16 toll booths on the Bandra side and was the first to slide a pass through the electronic sensor of the automated toll system, lifting the barricade so that she and her security detail could pass through.

And a correction regarding the toll fees:

As part of a promotion plan, motorists will be able to use the sea link for free until July 5; after that, a fee system will be implemented, as follows:

Basic Fee (1-way): Cars and SUVs - Rs 50; Mini bus and other similar sized 4 wheelers - Rs 75; Bus and trucks - Rs 100.

Two way passes will 1.5 times the basic toll, while daily multiple entries will be 2.5 the basic tolls. A monthly pass will be 50 times the basic toll.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 30 Jun 2009 19:59

Well at least they have given it an original, unique name:

Rajiv Gandhi setu

Rajiv Gandhi must have yeoman work for Mumbai and his association with Mumbai must be well known. The sheer dedication and hard work on his part in bettering the life of Mumbaikars and Mumbai will always be remembered by this unique name.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 30 Jun 2009 21:48

Tanaji you forgot to add:

Oh boy! some things will never change.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Jun 2009 21:56

Tanaji wrote:Well at least they have given it an original, unique name:

Rajiv Gandhi setu

Rajiv Gandhi must have yeoman work for Mumbai and his association with Mumbai must be well known. The sheer dedication and hard work on his part in bettering the life of Mumbaikars and Mumbai will always be remembered by this unique name.

Frickin Dilli Parasites finally allowed a measly 5 km or so stretch of elevated road to be built . For how much Rs 1600 crores. How much are they spending on that totally useless Commonwealth games (whose common wealth and why are we even in int?) , did I hear around $17.5b or so , around Rs 60,000 crore.

Oh all the new stadiums are "centrally air conditioned of course" (you know where the power for that will come from), oh, and the common wealth games will be a massive loss , wont cover any costs (of course you know who will pay for it)

At the end of it, we will have some rotting stadiums, largely disused /mis used and smelling of urine and home to homeless bums. If there is a bigger waste, I havent heard of it. Oh wait,, in another 20 years, while the rest of India does it's blood sweat and toil bit and gets richer (Dilli continues sucking blood as usual), they will decide to host the Olympics and for H&D purposes , they will want to out do what china did in 2008 and they will spend atlest 2 times more than what the Chinese did (and you know who will have the privilege of paying for it).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Jun 2009 22:44

Rajiv Gandhi setu

People should just call it the Worli Sea link. What has Rajiv or Sonia got to do with it. Why not the M.G.Gandhi sealink ?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 30 Jun 2009 22:45

Guys I have a question regarding the games villages that are built to host athletes. What happens to them after the events finish. IIRC, there was a games village built in hyderabad for the Afro-Asian games. Who is occupying them right now ?

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 30 Jun 2009 22:52

flickr stream for bandra worli(load of pics from inaugural day

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 30 Jun 2009 22:54

Govt to invest Rs.13,397 cr on road projects in Kashmir, northeast

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 721130.cms

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 30 Jun 2009 22:54

girish parmar's stream

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 30 Jun 2009 22:58

NGO challenges charges for use of Bandra-Worli Sea link

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 719821.cms

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 30 Jun 2009 23:15

First of all, congratulations to all Mumbaikars. The bridge looks nice, and hopefully will make a difference.

I am however not convinced of the effectiveness. For the sum of 1600 crores Mumbaikars could have got a metro line, running from VT via Worli, Bandra and all the way to the airport. The cost of metro is approx 80-100 crores per KM. Hence the 1600 crores would have got 16-20 km of metro. The metro line would have connected the airport to the main business centres of the city and passed 2-3 million people.

I fear that the sealink will just cause congestion at Worli and Bandra. The traffice in Mahim etc may not be reduced.

I hope I am wrong on the congestion account. Please let me know, Mumbaikars.

Once again, congratulations, because the sealink is better then no sealink.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 30 Jun 2009 23:21

If the charges remain what they are, I am afraid ordinary mumbaikars will largely shun it.
Look at the second hoogly bridge. Just because there is a toll booth there, there is hardly any traffic there across to shibpur. The only traffic seems to be trucks who are forced to come that way on their way to the harbour.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Jun 2009 23:30

The problem with the 'for the same cost you could have build XYZ' argument is that it compares apples to oranges. The BWSL cost includes escalations due to delays, litigation and whatnot. Another option would have had its own share of similar concerns, whose additional cost burden may not be immediately quantifiable.

I think the BWSL is a great project. For one, like the LCA, it gives us a perspective of how to start doing projects on this scale, and aspire to do much bigger ones with even greater efficiency. The first effort is always problematic, but it need not imply every other project to follow will face hurdles on the same scale.

For example, the first line of Delhi Metro took much more time to build than the current positively manic scale at which they are building far greater lengths of phase 2; Delhi Metro will go up from just around 70km route length to >200kms next year. It also faced a lot of brickbats from BRT and light rail proponents. I hope the BWSL similarly helps to expedite the work on the Worli-Haji Ali and Haji Ali-Nariman Point connectors.

IIRC, the Reliance-Hyundai consortium won the bid on the Worli-Haji Ali section, while Arup proposed multiple options for Haji Ali-Nariman point, with their preference being for a bridge+deep tunnel+shallow tunnel, rather than a bridge throughout.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 30 Jun 2009 23:38

I agree on the competance building argumet. It is important to build such projects, so that the capacity to do so is built up.

do not agree with the Apples V Oranges argument. Here the question is how to transport people arround and what will be the most cost effective way to do so. Building very expensive roads is not going to solve Mumbais problems, becuase there is no place for cars. Where are they going to park, cross etc. Mumbai requires a very efficient public transport system. Nice clean and reliable like the one in Hong kong or Singapore. Mumbai can never be a "car" city.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Jun 2009 23:45

Its just going to move congestion to the entry points and exit points.

IMO If you really want to decongest then you need one running ALL along the mumbai coast line with exits.

True decongestion would involve moving downtown offices more uniformly around

never understood the need tohave the stupid govt stuff out there - all those useless MLAs can sit somewhere else outside the city limits freeing up valuable real estate

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Jun 2009 23:54

Mumbai *does* have a huge suburban rail network (300km+ route length, 7 million passengers daily), in addition to the Mumbai Metro (~150km route length in phase 1-3), which is currently under construction. Even if Mumbai is not a Los Angeles-like car centric city, it still needs a significantly enhanced road network. Tokyo, Singapore and other examples of cities that have great metros, also have an excellent road network.

Mumbai needs both high throughput roads and an enhanced mass transit. Despite a massive number of salarymen taking the suburban railway to work - a Mumbai cultural artifact for long - there is still a huge amount of road traffic - southbound in the morning, northbound in the evening - that will not go away even with additional metro lines. The metro will take time to build (it has already run into administrative/litigation concerns), while the BWSL is ready now. Time is money, and despite the cost, BWSL is ready for use now.

One option that would make BWSL toll system viable (in addition to lowering it somewhat from its current rates) is the imposition of a congestion charge upon weekday traffic to central/south Mumbai, in a manner that lets them funnel traffic between WEH, EEH and BWSL/connectors.

SK Mody · Post by **SK Mody** » 01 Jul 2009 02:01

Saw the bridge on the worli side last November, and it looks like a disaster. It ends in a T-junction! Are they expecting deformable cars? Maybe their model treated the cars as a compressible gas flowing through a tube.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 01 Jul 2009 02:22

Those lanes look pretty narrow. Trucks will probably spill over.

The reverse direction seems to be far from ready going by the video, with several spans missing. Hopefully they will be able to meet the 12/2009 deadline for opening that up.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 01 Jul 2009 06:45

1/3 rd of a Sea Link which is proposed in the mid 60's of the last century gets built and the Nehru-Gandhi family promptly makes an appearance to usurp credit and perpetuate bragging rights as if the whole county is their baap ki jaagir.....

Sorry admins just couldnt help it.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jul 2009 07:11

Every nook and corner of India have their heros, some literary, some historical, some from our armed forces. Achievers who have dedicated their lives to the nation. Why does local politics take it upon themselves to promote these people?

Are the local politicos asleep? They should make and issue nation wide when ever a Nehru-Gandhi family member's name is used on a project. If enough fuss is created, this family will back down. Otherwise be prepared for Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi bridges and proverty elimination schemes in the future.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Jul 2009 07:40

According to some news article that I read, Sharad Pawar "proposed" that it be named after Rajiv, and Sonia "thanked" him

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Jul 2009 09:50

suryag wrote:Guys I have a question regarding the games villages that are built to host athletes. What happens to them after the events finish. IIRC, there was a games village built in hyderabad for the Afro-Asian games. Who is occupying them right now ?

There is a National Games village at Koramangala in Bangalore. Built during a National Games session done years before. Now many of them are given as quarters for Military as well as civil officials in Bangalore. If I am not mistaken a couple of them were auctioned and sold.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jul 2009 09:51

So much for the local politician theory.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jul 2009 09:53

The commonwealth flats will be sold off as Delhi development authority flats after the games are over. This was in the news earlier.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 01 Jul 2009 11:37

What? not Chatrapati Shivaji Sealink?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jul 2009 11:40

Mumbai and Maharashtra need to think beyond. They already have railway stations and airports and so many places named after Shivaji.

List of Marathi people

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 01 Jul 2009 19:05

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... _Train.JPG

Here are the "new" train compartments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mumba ... il_map.svg

From the above map, we can see that Mumbai indeed has a fairly extensive rail system. But there is a desperate need to uppgrade the entire system. New modern railcars, better signaling system and better railway track saftey. In stead of building more sealinks, the government should focus on uppgrading the existing train systems. The idea must be to get people off the cars and into the train system. Hardly likely when you see the state of the rail system. Perhaps they should start with making the mumbai rail system a seperate entity.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 01 Jul 2009 19:25

Dileep wrote:What? not Chatrapati Shivaji Sealink?

Sarcasm aside, what do you think would have been a good name?

I dont think Rajiv Gandhi is a good name... there is any relation between him and the city. Anyone with a good connection to the city should be a candidate. Kanhoji Angre is a good candidate although a road already exists by that name..

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jul 2009 20:12

How about "Peshwa Bajirao bandra-worli sea link"?

Or just 'Bandra-worli sea link' or 'Mumbai 1 sea link'

wrt mumbai's emu train network.
This seems to be targetted more towards bringing people from Mumbai's suburbs into the city and out. The stations are spaced out pretty far.
This is nowhere like a metro, where you would have stops every 400-500 meters or so, directed more towards daily inner city traffic. This is what is going to get those people off their vehicles. This has happened in Delhi, where I could see for example, office execs parking their vehicles at the metro stations and taking the metro ride to work or families going off on a picnic or for a movie, just because the Metro is so well connected.
Although this is not so in Kolkata, which is basically just one straight line providing coverage to a fraction of the city's traffic who happen to lie along the route.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 01 Jul 2009 20:22

well it didnt last long

Traffic jams at sea-link due to a speed breaker...
http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2 ... -day-1.htm

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2009 20:25

would it be feasible to run double decker commuter rails in mumbai
and demolish and build greenfield high traffic stations at VT and churchgate ?

no rail system in the world seems capable of dealing with the sheer
number of people flooding up and down the two main routes!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 01 Jul 2009 23:11

"There was traffic congestion on the sea-link due to a speed breaker at the Worli exit point. Four-wheelers slowed down when they arrived this point. To clear the backlog, the speed breaker was removed," Sanjay Jadhav, a constable deployed to monitor traffic at Worli, told PTI.

What else did they expect when they designed a T-junction at the exit point from the bridge. Does not require any elaborate traffic simulation to tell one that.