Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Nov 2008 06:04

sum wrote:Hello Jingoes,
Im sure that many of you might have bought Bharat Karnad's "Nuclear Weapons and Indian Security: The Realist Foundations of Strategy (Second Edition)/2005". Could someone point out a reliable online store where i could purchase the same at a reasonable rate or some store in B'luru where could i purchase the book?

My standard method in Bengaluru is to barge into Sapna, ask them to figure out the ISBN number from their online database and get them to order the book if it is unavailable. I guess Gangarams will do the same thing - but heck who wants to search for parking near MG road when Sapna has several branches...

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Nov 2008 19:21

shiv wrote:
sum wrote:Hello Jingoes,
Im sure that many of you might have bought Bharat Karnad's "Nuclear Weapons and Indian Security: The Realist Foundations of Strategy (Second Edition)/2005". Could someone point out a reliable online store where i could purchase the same at a reasonable rate or some store in B'luru where could i purchase the book?
My standard method in Bengaluru is to barge into Sapna, ask them to figure out the ISBN number from their online database and get them to order the book if it is unavailable. I guess Gangarams will do the same thing - but heck who wants to search for parking near MG road when Sapna has several branches...

Thanks a lot for the tip, Shiv guru...

No jingo has ever purchased the above mentioned book online?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 30 Nov 2008 23:59

I'm a little confused about the uniforms each unit was wearing during the ops. Could someone please help me sort things out?

Is that MARCOS? I'm guessing by the masks they use to hide their identity.

Who's the guy in the front wearing the regular army uniform with a similar BPJ. Is that NSG too?

Now, which unit is this? Doesn't look like the NSG or the MARCOS. Going by the gun he's using, is it the Mumbai police? ATS?

Which unit is this one? read in this forum that its MARCOS, but aren't they seen around with masks?

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 01 Dec 2008 01:56

Any idea what he is carrying?

Thanks

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 01 Dec 2008 13:40

how do you enable ignore user feature or in essence ignore users in the forum settings?
This has become quite necessary now i guess.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 01 Dec 2008 17:14

K Mehta wrote:how do you enable ignore user feature or in essence ignore users in the forum settings?

Did you try clicking on the Add foe link that appears in every member's profile page

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 01 Dec 2008 17:35

What the deuce is add foe?

NSG SAG is army anyway.

kaangeya · Post by **kaangeya** » 02 Dec 2008 06:53

Indian counter-terrorist forces were well trained but failed to gather sufficient intelligence before engaging the terrorists, they said.
"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence," said a former official in Shin Bet, the Israel Security Agency
"In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area," he said.

Yeah and after they assemble and begin collecting intelligence they must lay out tables, pitch the tents and have themselves a party. May be that's why this guy is a former official

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Dec 2008 12:08

@ Dmurphy

The last pic which u posted shows a guy in regular army camo with a black BPJ.Quite a few of these guys were seen around the Taj hotel. I'm also curious about which force they belong to.

I'm also wondering why the NSG were seen wearing BPJs with the army's camo colr scheme instead of their trademark all black kit like the MARCOS.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Dec 2008 13:36

nachiket wrote:@ Dmurphy

The last pic which u posted shows a guy in regular army camo with a black BPJ.Quite a few of these guys were seen around the Taj hotel. I'm also curious about which force they belong to.

I'm also wondering why the NSG were seen wearing BPJs with the army's camo colr scheme instead of their trademark all black kit like the MARCOS.

most of MARCOS wasn't wearing all black.

the last pic you mentioned shows a MARCOS sniper with the SVDS, folding stock dragunov.

better yet, check recent posts by George J.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 03 Dec 2008 07:04

Anybody's seen this BS ? Pity the piglet thinking ...They are in so much shit and still have the balls to put this s*** on TV.

BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQ0WXzY9sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAYxgC8zYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uggcZYmZIa4

Div · Post by **Div** » 03 Dec 2008 09:00

Hiten wrote:Any idea what he is carrying?

Thanks

I am thinking its a (large) flashlight/spotlight.

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 03 Dec 2008 11:45

nikhil_t wrote:Anybody's seen this BS ? Pity the piglet thinking ...They are in so much shit and still have the balls to put this s*** on TV.

BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQ0WXzY9sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAYxgC8zYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uggcZYmZIa4

This is hilarious. Thanks for sharing a wonderful joke!

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 03 Dec 2008 15:26

nikhil_t wrote:Anybody's seen this BS ? Pity the piglet thinking ...They are in so much shit and still have the balls to put this s*** on TV.

BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQ0WXzY9sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAYxgC8zYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uggcZYmZIa4

That Paki Strategic analyst is a great joker. He thinks India is like Pakistan where Intelligence agencies are under control of Hindu Zionists and BJP even though the government is of UPA.

Cheers....

Neilz · Post by **Neilz** » 03 Dec 2008 17:09

nikhil_t wrote:Anybody's seen this BS ? Pity the piglet thinking ...They are in so much shit and still have the balls to put this s*** on TV.

BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQ0WXzY9sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAYxgC8zYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uggcZYmZIa4

finally a good joke.......

Neilz · Post by **Neilz** » 03 Dec 2008 19:50

Hi all,

I have a question regarding the controversy appeared about the quality of BPJ wore by 3 ATS martyrs.

Is not it true that every BPJ has specific “safe distance“ for different types small arm threat.

Is it possible that may be BPJs used by ATS is selected keeping in mind a low threat perception……….which failed to withstand the high velocity bullets of AKs in close quarter battle.

NIJ standard of Ballistic Resistance of Personal Body Armour (NIJ Standard-0101.04 updated revision ‘a’ &’B’

http://sjvn.nic.in/tenders/pcd/ppr1594/jacket-spec.pdf

jobatra · Post by **jobatra** » 05 Dec 2008 11:01

this is n00b corner right? so can I

without being shaheedized by moderatorullahs?

my question: to my simpleton non-scheming brain, BRF suggests that a lot of things are a conspiracy -- from LCA issues, to Arjun MBT sabotage, to Mumbai attacks.

I have been mentally trained to avoid tin-foil types, yet I do not off-hand discount BRFites because I know many are ex-mil, ex-op people that understand what is going on. Should I not being ignoring the 9/11 iz yuhudi conspiracy jokers? Did we really land on the moon or is that just the backside of Balaji studios?

In sum, this mamooli insaan asks the bharat-rakshak oracle, does the matrix exist? Is everything really effed up? say it ain't so, no...

(pls not to fry gentle doubting injun. not asking for justification for theories presented here, I know I am free to take it or leave it. I am just looking for thoughts from people who face similar existential crises from browsing BRF. And maybe tips on medication to deal with the matrix)

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Dec 2008 11:27

you want the red pill or the blue pill ?

I could name morpheus and neo here but they could de-link me from the matrix !

so I have to desist !

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 05 Dec 2008 14:47

Hi
Do our special forces use robots for urban warfare ?.I wasn't able to see any robots in mumbai operations.

Cheers

Prabhu.G

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 05 Dec 2008 15:01

prabhug wrote:Hi
Do our special forces use robots for urban warfare ?.I wasn't able to see any robots in mumbai operations.

Cheers

Prabhu.G

dude, did all that talk of matrix prompt you to ask this question?

On a serious note, I've heard of robots being developed for bomb disposals though not seen/heard of its use in a 'situation' in India so far, though it's widely used in the west. But the world is yet to see a robot meant for hostage crisis.

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 05 Dec 2008 19:48

My thinking was these robots might have helped in searching terrorist inside the corridors and rooms of the mumbai hotel.I have heard about AGV's with guns mounted.Those would have helped the commandos to work faster.

Thanks

Prabhu.G

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 05 Dec 2008 20:05

The final testing of ROV (remotely operated vehicle) "Daksh" was going on as per the last news piece. It will take its time to get cleared, approved for induction, marking production agency, certification of production quality and mass scale production.
Besides the major problem in most of these situations is getting the troops there, rather than just having robots.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 05 Dec 2008 20:06

prabhug wrote:Hi
Do our special forces use robots for urban warfare ?.I wasn't able to see any robots in mumbai operations.

Something like this?
http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/feb06/nd.htm
BOMB DISPOSAL ROBOT

Research and Development Establishment (Engrs)(R&DE(E)), Pune, has developed a state-of-the-art Counter Terrorist Remotely Operated Robot Vehicle (ROV). It can operate over a range of 500m line-of-sight both in cross country and urban environment. The vehicle can be deployed in the buildings including stair cases for handling hazardous materials. It has a robust six axis manipulator arm with a gripper for handling suspected objects upto 20kg at 2.5m. It is electrically powered by special batteries and can be used continuously for three hours without recharge. Multiple cameras are provided for helping the operator to drive as well as pick and handle sensitive objects.

The vehicle is driven with the help of a Master Control Station (MCS) having an operators console with switches, joysticks, and optional touch screen interface for remote control and guidance. The ROV and MCS are carried to the site on a specially designed Swaraj Mazda carrier vehicle.

The robot performs the following roles :

a) Improvised Explosive Device (IED) Handling wherein a portable x-ray device and explosive-based water jet disrupter is used to diffuse the IED.

b) NBC Reconnaissance where the robot is equipped with a Radiation Measurement and Automatic Control Unit (RADMAC) and Portable Gas Chromatograph (PGC) to survey contaminated locations.

c) Mine Detection where an induction based mine detector is placed in front of the vehicle and the ground scanned for presence of mines.

Two engineered prototypes of the Robot are under trials.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 05 Dec 2008 20:19

Dmurphy wrote:I'm a little confused about the uniforms each unit was wearing during the ops. Could someone please help me sort things out?

Is that MARCOS? I'm guessing by the masks they use to hide their identity.

No, these guys are from the NSG taking aim at nariman house.

Who's the guy in the front wearing the regular army uniform with a similar BPJ. Is that NSG too?

Probably NSG, note the sidearm that he carrying similar to the one the other guy in black has. surely not from army or marcos as they were not carrying sidearms.

Now, which unit is this? Doesn't look like the NSG or the MARCOS. Going by the gun he's using, is it the Mumbai police? ATS?

mumbai ATS, check his helmet.

Which unit is this one? read in this forum that its MARCOS, but aren't they seen around with masks?

Must be from the army, not sure though. surely not marcos as they were not wearing army fatigues.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Dec 2008 20:49

IMHO the last one is MARCOS since a lot of commenting happened on this pic in the other thread wherein only a few MARCOS guys seemed to be in fatigues(no NSG guy wore anything other than black). The sniper rifle he carries(Druganov??) seems to be a MARCO special.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 05 Dec 2008 22:33

sum wrote:IMHO the last one is MARCOS since a lot of commenting happened on this pic in the other thread wherein only a few MARCOS guys seemed to be in fatigues

as i said earlier he must be from army.
This pic seems to be taken at taj during the last day of the seige, note that he is climbing up the ladder. these ladders were setup by the firemen to reach those places were the fires, during the last day, were raging. during the first day when marcos were at the scene these ladders were not there.

sum wrote:(no NSG guy wore anything other than black).

Check the 2nd pic, first guy is not in black.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 05 Dec 2008 22:51

Thank you your reply Avinash and Sum. But what Avinash is referring to as a ladder is a scaffolding thats been put up to restore the gateway.

I know about the scaffolding as I have been to the site personally before all this happened. So MARCOS can't be ruled out in that context.

here's a link which claims him as an Army Sniper.
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/India-fin ... d0d1bf917/

bhavin · Post by **bhavin** » 05 Dec 2008 22:54

Avinash R wrote:
sum wrote:IMHO the last one is MARCOS since a lot of commenting happened on this pic in the other thread wherein only a few MARCOS guys seemed to be in fatigues
as i said earlier he must be from army.
This pic seems to be taken at taj during the last day of the seige, note that he is climbing up the ladder. these ladders were setup by the firemen to reach those places were the fires, during the last day, were raging. during the first day when marcos were at the scene these ladders were not there.

sum wrote:(no NSG guy wore anything other than black).
Check the 2nd pic, first guy is not in black.

The guy is not climbing Taj rather this framework was erected around Gateway of India structure.. You cannot see it in the cropped photo above... There were actually 2 or 3 guys climbing to the top. Also it takes some time to erect this framework (which is used in construction activities) and thus the fire department would not have tried to use it.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 06 Dec 2008 11:29

Is there any link to a third party [non-Indian, Chinese or Pakistani] comparision between the capabilities of the operational JF-17 and the prototype LCA Tejas

All the comparison pages I have come across is either by an Indian or Pakistani author and each states the superiority of its own

A link to an American or European comparion would be highly appreciated

Thanks

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 06 Dec 2008 12:12

^sorry guys mistook the scaffolding for the ladders the firemen were using.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 07 Dec 2008 11:15

I have been a lurker for a decade now, and finally decided to register. (I almost started a new thread posting this one, clicked a wrong button, that was close call with ib4t"ale")

Being a newbie I thought it proper to pose my question here to the gentlejingo's.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00 ... 061972.htm

Gurus correct me if I am wrong:

Above article talks about greater understanding, synergy, harmony, tradition, culture, heritage, active participation and all the good HR stuff. So I guess for Human Resources it makes good administrative sense. However, assuming approx. regiment strength of maximum 5000 soldiers each, wouldn’t a composite regiment of approx. 15,000 be difficult to manage for portability, deployment?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 11:15

jobatra wrote:
In sum, this mamooli insaan asks the bharat-rakshak oracle, does the matrix exist? Is everything really effed up? say it ain't so, no...

Yes

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Dec 2008 23:02

Avinash R wrote:..........

Which unit is this one? read in this forum that its MARCOS, but aren't they seen around with masks?
Must be from the army, not sure though. surely not marcos as they were not wearing army fatigues.

the rifle is the folding stock dragunov -- SVDS.
GJ says only MARCOS uses those and he is usually correct.

form your own opinions now !

as for the lack of mask, the sniper is being deployed quite a distance away from where the probing cameramen were, so .......

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 10 Dec 2008 03:56

Avinash R wrote: Check the 2nd pic, first guy is not in black.

First Guy's helmet as well shoes are different than rest of Black dress guys.

Ankit

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 10 Dec 2008 12:33

Rahul M wrote:the rifle is the folding stock dragunov -- SVDS.
GJ says only MARCOS uses those and he is usually correct.

form your own opinions now !

as for the lack of mask, the sniper is being deployed quite a distance away from where the probing cameramen were, so .......

But what is the reason for wearing army fatigues? The units wear the uniform that is issued to them, they cant 'borrow' army fatigues. what is special reason that this MarCos is wearing those clothes?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 10 Dec 2008 12:35

Didn't get the point you are making.

Ankit Desai wrote:
Avinash R wrote: Check the 2nd pic, first guy is not in black.
First Guy's helmet as well shoes are different than rest of Black dress guys.

Ankit

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2008 12:53

Avinash R wrote:
Rahul M wrote:the rifle is the folding stock dragunov -- SVDS.
GJ says only MARCOS uses those and he is usually correct.

form your own opinions now !

as for the lack of mask, the sniper is being deployed quite a distance away from where the probing cameramen were, so .......
But what is the reason for wearing army fatigues? The units wear the uniform that is issued to them, they cant 'borrow' army fatigues. what is special reason that this MarCos is wearing those clothes?

it's wrong to categorise those as army fatigues. similar camo gear is worn by the garuds for example.
there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule about wearing particular fatigues among the MARCOS.

SF are probably allowed some latitude in this respect.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 10 Dec 2008 13:30

^ ok let's call it military fatigues, but still where will marcos(essentially navy personnel) find these clothes when they are not issued to them. it's one thing if they turn up at the place in civilian clothes, to avoid getting recognised by the terrorists, but it doesn't make sense to go there in these military fatigues. for this reason i think the person in the pic is from army.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2008 13:39

you forget that MARCOS operates regularly in kashmir. they would have such fatigues in their bag.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 10 Dec 2008 14:04

^yes, but these units were from mumbai and not flown from j&k, and most of the units in j&k wear civilians clothes and only some seconded to army units may have military fatigues.