Islamic Sectarianism

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 23 Mar 2012 00:12

akashganga wrote:Muslims whether they call themselves sufis or sunnis or wahabis or barelwis or whatever are all the same. The phrase Indian Muslim is oxymoron. You are truely an indian only if you believe and respect 10 thousand years of indian spiritual traditions which includes Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, or Athiesm. How can a practicing muslim (or for that matter fundamentalist christian) in India who looks to middle east for spiritual guidance and who has no respect for thousands of years of indian spiritual heritage be Indian.

It is quite possible. One only needs to deconstruct Islamism and reconstruct it using an Indian connecting meme. Islamism today is a concoction of Arabic tribal-cultural qabilah memes, Persian imperial culture, and Greek philosophy. Even if a section of educated Indo-Moslems replace the Greek slice with an Indian slice, we will have a new creation which will fit neatly into the Indic continuum. After all if Middle Eastern Moslems could accept Greek stuff, with some modifications by folks like ghazali, then enlightened Indo-Moslems can do even better with Indic philosophy.

We need to put the idea out there...thought seeding. Example:

Shamim Ahmed, professor of Vedanta and allied philosophy at the Ramakrishna Mission Vidyamandir

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 23 Mar 2012 02:43

Carl wrote:
akashganga wrote:Muslims whether they call themselves sufis or sunnis or wahabis or barelwis or whatever are all the same. The phrase Indian Muslim is oxymoron. You are truely an indian only if you believe and respect 10 thousand years of indian spiritual traditions which includes Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, or Athiesm. How can a practicing muslim (or for that matter fundamentalist christian) in India who looks to middle east for spiritual guidance and who has no respect for thousands of years of indian spiritual heritage be Indian.
It is quite possible. One only needs to deconstruct Islamism and reconstruct it using an Indian connecting meme. Islamism today is a concoction of Arabic tribal-cultural qabilah memes, Persian imperial culture, and Greek philosophy. Even if a section of educated Indo-Moslems replace the Greek slice with an Indian slice, we will have a new creation which will fit neatly into the Indic continuum. After all if Middle Eastern Moslems could accept Greek stuff, with some modifications by folks like ghazali, then enlightened Indo-Moslems can do even better with Indic philosophy.

We need to put the idea out there...thought seeding. Example:

Shamim Ahmed, professor of Vedanta and allied philosophy at the Ramakrishna Mission Vidyamandir

Carlji, Reconstructing Islamism using an Indian connecting meme is at best a long shot. There is no guarantee it will work at all. There are a handful of cases like the link you posted and that is certainly good. What is happening is that Indian Muslims are tightly controlled from Arabia by stealth. Whenever these arabs see even a slight revival of native spirits in distant lands they unleash their power and that is how they have sustained their arab imperialism over converted people for over 1000 years. I am using terminology from one of VS Naipaul's books I read long time back. The only spiritual ideas outside of Koran Arab islamists have tolerated are sufi teachings which were from outside of arab peninsula. I believe Sufi teachings are completely different from orthodox islamism and it has survived because it cloathed itself in the islamic garb. My 2 cents.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 23 Mar 2012 02:57

So if Arabs can project their ideologies so far, then so can Indics. Unless you're saying that Indics don't have the motive power to match?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Mar 2012 03:13

if we want to "reconstruct" Islam under Indic memes, we need a Mullah like power structure which is as greedy and lustful for power and wealth as the Mullahs. the history of Islam in Bengal is a good example for those who think that Islam can be "reconstructed" under Indian memes. for a long period, the Mullahs in that area used to "worship" Hindu murthis and Gods and Goddesses. they consciously projected an image of Hindu-Muslim syncretism. it achieved their objective: gain more converts from the Hindu fold. but gradually, a slow purge of the Hindu memes did begin and present day Bengali Islam has pretty much shed all of the "syncretic" stuff that it had in the beginning. Richard Eaton's book on Bengal has lucid examples of Mullahs and the Islamists using Hindu memes consciously as a way to gain converts. but the first generation convert is only the beginning. the Islamist networks ensure that this "Hindu baggage" is gradually shed off.

if we want to "reconstruct" Islam, it's not possible under the watchful gaze of the Islamist institutions. unless we intend to destroy and absolutely terrorize the Islamics from even uttering the word 'mullah', there is no point in wasting time on "reconstruction". it is doomed to fail.

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 23 Mar 2012 03:36

devesh wrote:if we want to "reconstruct" Islam under Indic memes, we need a Mullah like power structure which is as greedy and lustful for power and wealth as the Mullahs. the history of Islam in Bengal is a good example for those who think that Islam can be "reconstructed" under Indian memes. for a long period, the Mullahs in that area used to "worship" Hindu murthis and Gods and Goddesses. they consciously projected an image of Hindu-Muslim syncretism. it achieved their objective: gain more converts from the Hindu fold. but gradually, a slow purge of the Hindu memes did begin and present day Bengali Islam has pretty much shed all of the "syncretic" stuff that it had in the beginning. Richard Eaton's book on Bengal has lucid examples of Mullahs and the Islamists using Hindu memes consciously as a way to gain converts. but the first generation convert is only the beginning. the Islamist networks ensure that this "Hindu baggage" is gradually shed off.

if we want to "reconstruct" Islam, it's not possible under the watchful gaze of the Islamist institutions. unless we intend to destroy and absolutely terrorize the Islamics from even uttering the word 'mullah', there is no point in wasting time on "reconstruction". it is doomed to fail.

Devesh Ji, You are right on the dot. Under the current circumstances reconstructing Islam in the indic memes is a wet dream. Indian islamists are foot soldiers and their masters are sitting comfortably in arabia. Unless real reformation or major changes happen in arabia we will be fighting a loosing battle against their foot soldiers in India.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Mar 2012 04:08

Carl ji,
why raise this Greek qualification? It was a much later forced interpretation. If you can show any "Greek" "philosophy" in the primary revelatory text, do quote it in some appropriate thread within GDF.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Mar 2012 04:17

akashganga wrote:
Carl wrote: It is quite possible. One only needs to deconstruct Islamism and reconstruct it using an Indian connecting meme. Islamism today is a concoction of Arabic tribal-cultural qabilah memes, Persian imperial culture, and Greek philosophy. Even if a section of educated Indo-Moslems replace the Greek slice with an Indian slice, we will have a new creation which will fit neatly into the Indic continuum. After all if Middle Eastern Moslems could accept Greek stuff, with some modifications by folks like ghazali, then enlightened Indo-Moslems can do even better with Indic philosophy.

We need to put the idea out there...thought seeding. Example:

Shamim Ahmed, professor of Vedanta and allied philosophy at the Ramakrishna Mission Vidyamandir
Carlji, Reconstructing Islamism using an Indian connecting meme is at best a long shot. There is no guarantee it will work at all. There are a handful of cases like the link you posted and that is certainly good. What is happening is that Indian Muslims are tightly controlled from Arabia by stealth. Whenever these arabs see even a slight revival of native spirits in distant lands they unleash their power and that is how they have sustained their arab imperialism over converted people for over 1000 years. I am using terminology from one of VS Naipaul's books I read long time back. The only spiritual ideas outside of Koran Arab islamists have tolerated are sufi teachings which were from outside of arab peninsula. I believe Sufi teachings are completely different from orthodox islamism and it has survived because it cloathed itself in the islamic garb. My 2 cents.

Sufi teachings post Islam are not really different from Islamism. We often make this mistake because we are not familiar with both the words as well as actions from historic sufis and sufi lineages. There could have been some differences at the very beginning, within the first one or two centuries. Those "sufis" who did not intensify the Islamist urges - had to go out - like Ibn Sina [he was perhaps not strictly speaking a sufi in the current regime supported agitprop characterization].

In fact most of the time - the sufis only retained the intense personal religious passion from the pre-Islamic roots, and this went into an even greater mentality of conquest and conversion with a puritanical zeal compared to ordinary foot soldiers.

Most of the early sufis [yes as well as the later] in India were typically accompanying Muslim expeditionary forces, shared in massacres, destruction of non-Muslim cultural icons, and abduction and forced marriage of non-Muslim women.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Mar 2012 04:24

Sufis were motley non-Arabs preachers who were the scouts for the Turkish invasions. They could sing and dance and entice the kafirs into the flock.
Even now a lot of jokers sing Sufi music on their iPods!
One guy whose mom sings classical Carnatic music was telling me about Sufi music. I had to punch his bubble.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 23 Mar 2012 04:28

B ji, no I meant Greek patchwork in the gradual formation of Islamist theology and philosophy. Yes it is a forced interpretation. But Islamism borrowed some of its 'kick' from Greek political theory, just as it wrested and mounted the Persian culture. IMHO, by surgically removing the Greek and installing the Indic, a new context is provided that will act as a solvent for the less desirable traits and render it a benign part of the Indic civilizational continuum.

We saw attempts to do this for a brief period under Mughal rule, and Dara Shikoh is a popular icon of that influence. There was definitely a widespread feeling of "Indian exceptionalism" amongst certain sections, and they envisioned an end to previous forms and the beginning of a new form ('sulh i kull') ever since the Middle Eastern Islamic meme stream merged into the Indic meme ocean.

As you pointed out, not everything that goes by the name of "Sufi" was favorable. But not all were unfavorable either. Clearly, Sikh history for example shows that.

We need to recreate that environment, those networks that were favorable to the metamorphosis, and we need to destroy those networks that killed that new idea in its coccoon. This means that we need to work not only on reconstructing favorable networks within India (see "New Age Islam" for example), but also attacking the roots of unfavorable networks in their home bases outside India.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Mar 2012 04:44

I think it is important to show and establish that the theology is uniquely Arab and of the 7th century deserts of Arabia. It is therefore a localized and time-period restricted theology which pretends non-locality and timelessness. The more essentially Arabic and historical we show it to be the lesser its universality appeal.

What is touted as "Greek" was nota ctually specifically Greek at all - and shared by a lot of other cultrures.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Mar 2012 04:46

And is based on misinterpreted Egyptian misogyny.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Mar 2012 05:01

ramana wrote:And is based on misinterpreted Egyptian misogyny.

Taking cue from you query in GDF, off the cuff - I think yes the transition can be shown to be after Abraham and before Moshe. There seems to be archeological evidence for the continued worship of Asherah [the Canaanite and possibly Judaism adopted/tolerated in the early days around Abraham - mother goddess] besides Yahweh.

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 23 Mar 2012 06:29

brihaspati wrote:Carl ji,
why raise this Greek qualification? It was a much later forced interpretation. If you can show any "Greek" "philosophy" in the primary revelatory text, do quote it in some appropriate thread within GDF.

Ask an arab and he will never acknowledge any borrowing from Greeks. I have read that pre-islamic arabs were more moderate and had links with other cultures in the region and may have assimilated some of the greek ideas. I have not come across Greek contributions in any major site. The whole of revelation is designed to propagate and sustain this violent faith by force.

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 23 Mar 2012 06:36

brihaspati wrote:
Sufi teachings post Islam are not really different from Islamism. We often make this mistake because we are not familiar with both the words as well as actions from historic sufis and sufi lineages. There could have been some differences at the very beginning, within the first one or two centuries. Those "sufis" who did not intensify the Islamist urges - had to go out - like Ibn Sina [he was perhaps not strictly speaking a sufi in the current regime supported agitprop characterization].

In fact most of the time - the sufis only retained the intense personal religious passion from the pre-Islamic roots, and this went into an even greater mentality of conquest and conversion with a puritanical zeal compared to ordinary foot soldiers.

Most of the early sufis [yes as well as the later] in India were typically accompanying Muslim expeditionary forces, shared in massacres, destruction of non-Muslim cultural icons, and abduction and forced marriage of non-Muslim women.

I agree. Muslims used Sufis as the soft face of islam shown to kafirs. The kafirs welcomed Sufis who were then followed by muslim forces. Sufis took their share of booty.

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 May 2012 07:33

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence as followers of the Mohammadden Sunni Sect and followers of the Mohammadden Shia sect and Alawaite sub-sect have a go at killing each other in Lebanon:

Five killed in sectarian Lebanese clashes

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 May 2012 20:54

Green on Green Intra Mohammadden religious hatred on display.

Cleric adhering to the Sunni sect of Mohammadenism, the Grand Imam of the influential Al-Azhar seminary, rejects the spread of the theology of the Shia / Shiite sect of Mohammaddenism and the building of Shia places of worship namely Imambarghas / Hussainiyas in Egypt:

Azhar: Shiite Hussainiyas threaten stability in Egypt

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Jul 2012 22:48

In Sunni Mohammadden majority Saudi Barbaria, Police shoot and arrest a Cleric belonging to the minority Shia sect of Mohammaddenism:

Saudi arrests Shiite cleric on sedition claims

Ensuing protest sees two killed:

Two die during Saudi Arabia protest at Shia cleric arrest

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Jul 2012 11:07

The oppression of adherents of the minority Shia Mohammadden sect by the majority adherents of the Sunni sect of Mohammaddenism in Saudi Barbaria brings a rare rebuke from Russia.

Interfax quotes Konstantin Dolgov, the Russian Foreign Ministry's envoy for Human Rights as saying "We hope that the authorities of the kingdom will take all of the measures needed to normalize the situation in its eastern districts, prevent any confrontation there, including interfaith clashes, and guarantee the observance of generally accepted human rights, including the right to freedom of expression, peaceful demonstrations and freedom of assembly as permitted by the law,"

Read it all:

Russia hopes Saudi leaders will prevent religious confrontation in eastern districts

Predictably the Saudi Barbarians are rather upset with the Russians:

Saudi Arabia condemns Russia’s “hostile” comments on human rights

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 17 Jul 2012 01:56

Shariat dispute
The Telegraph, Kolkata, July 16, 2012

OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT
Lucknow, July 15: The Muslim personal law board today voiced concern over judgments of various courts that apparently violate the Shariat in matters of marriage registration, divorce and maintenance.

The executive committee of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, which met today, has decided to move the Supreme Court for a review of the rulings.

“It has come to the notice of the board that in Tamil Nadu passport officers are not recognising Islamic nikaah and are insisting on marriage under the Special Marriage Act,” board assistant general secretary M.A.R. Quraishi said.

He said if compulsory registration of marriages was imposed on Muslims, it would amount to a violation of Muslim personal law. “Shariat is a part of Islam and Muslims are bound to follow it,” he said.
“The Supreme Court has said that in case of a conflict between fundamental rights and personal law, personal law will prevail. We need to a clarification from the apex court on this.”

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Jul 2012 05:06

Kati wrote: “The Supreme Court has said that in case of a conflict between fundamental rights and personal law, personal law will prevail. We need to a clarification from the apex court on this.”

Where has the SC said this! The constitutional status of the Fundamental Rights is not conducive to such an interpretation, and I doubt that our honourable activist judicial conscience keepers of our nation are so dumb as to make such an anti-constitutional statement.

Personal law is subject to fundamental rights - the latter being the bridge between civil and criminal law.

Sharia personal law prescribes stoning or beheading for supposed "adultery". Will that prevail over fundamental rights of Indian citizens? In fact it has been another lapse that the fundamental rights have not been universally applied to all Indian citizens equally, thanks to our great leader Jawaharlal Nehru over his strong support for excluding non-Hindu Indian from "reform", and also his crusading law minister not insisting on comprehensive reform - his obsession being the reform of the Hindu onlee.

The day the SC judges allow this interpretation, it will be the signal for us to know on which side of the divide of humanity versus evil, the Indian rashtra and its unaccountable self-proclaimed definers have chosen to stand on.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Jul 2012 21:02

In Turkey, a country long held up as proof for the existence of Muslim Moderation, Green on Green intra-Mohammadden religion inspired violence during the holy Islamic month of Ramadan sees an arson attack against members of the minority Alevi sect for objecting to being woken up early in the morning by a Ramadan drummer by their co-religionists :

Alevi family's home stoned, stable torched in southeastern Turkey

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Aug 2012 20:52

The Mohammadden majority country of Indonesia witnesses Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence with adherents of the minority Shia / Shiite sect of Mohammaddenism being targeted and killed by mob made up of co-religionists belonging to the majority Sunni sect:

Two Killed as Hard-liners Attack Shia School Group

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Sep 2012 08:49

In Iraq on the Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday, Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence sees adherents of the Shia / Shiite sect of Mohammaddenism killed by their co-religionists:

Shiite clerics among worshippers gunned down in Baghdad

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Sep 2012 06:56

From Indonesia which along with Turkey and Malaysia is held up as the poster child of “Moderate” Mohammaddenism.

Indonesian Minister Suryadharma Ali’s solution to solve religious inspired Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden sectarian violence is to get adherents of the minority sect to convert and adopt the sectarian identity of their oppressors who constitute the majority sect.

Clearly the Dharma in the Ministers name has not been reflected in his utterances:

Shia conversion is solution: Minister

Margareth S. Aritonang, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Thu, September 06 2012, 11:08 AM

Religious Affairs Minister Suryadharma Ali says converting Shiite Muslims to the Sunni Islam followed by most Indonesians would be the best way to prevent violent outbreaks between the sects in Sampang, East Java.

“The best solution for what has been going on in there is dialogue. Many things can happen after a dialogue. We had an experience where the Ahmadis [...] converted to mainstream Islam after dialogue,” the minister said on Wednesday on the sidelines of a meeting with lawmakers on House of Representatives’ Commission VIII overseeing religious affairs.

Suryadharma was referring to the local religious leader in Ciaruteun village in Bogor, West Java, who persuaded 15 members of the minority Muslim Ahmadiyah sect in March 2011 to convert to the form of Islam practiced by most Indonesian Muslims.

The minister said that in first stage of the conversion process, minority Shiites, their majority Sunni neighbors and other stakeholders in Sampang could meet for a dialogue. ………………..

Jakarta Post

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 17 Sep 2012 06:23

The Egyptian host asks the Shiite if the Shias in Egypt are more loyal to Egypt or Iran.The Shiite guy ducks the question, calls the wife of the Sunni participant a slut and everything goes downhill

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Sep 2012 07:14

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion inspired violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a country claimed to have been created as a safe haven for the Mohammadden’s of the Indian Sub-Continent, results in three adherents of the “Ahl-i-Tashee” aka Shia aka Shiite sect of Mohammaddenism being killed by co-religionists in Karachi:

Man, two sons among 10 gunned down

Meanwhile in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a country claimed to have been created as a safe haven for the Mohammadden’s of the Indian Sub-Continent, yet more Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion inspired violence in Balochistan which resulted in an adherent of the Shia aka Shiite sect of Mohammaddenism being killed by co-religionists :

Deputy Director Geological Survey of Pakistan killed in sectarian attack: Police

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Sep 2012 21:14

In Saudi Arabia Green on Green Intra Mohammadden violence with the Sunni ruling class suppressing their minority Shia subjects:

Two killed as Saudi security forces try to arrest Shia man

Meanwhile just over the causeway in Bahrain the Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday sees Green on Green Intra Mohammadden sectarian violence where the Sunni minority ruling class suppresses its own Shia majority subjects:

Bahrain police shoot 17-year-old protester dead in new wave of Shia unrest

And for an encore the Shia victims funeral procession is set upon by the security forces:

Bahrain police fire on Shia funeral procession

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 06 Nov 2012 07:40

In Tunisia some Sunni youth have been demonstrating aggressively against Rafidah Shi'a bookstores that have appeared on the streets of Tunis. They accuse the Rafidite Shi'a of being "neo-Zoroastrians" and "Sassanids".

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 26 Dec 2012 17:49

In Indonesia too?
Shia Muslims: Indonesian villages burned down

Exactly four months ago, a mob of Indonesian Sunni Muslims clashed with a group of Shias in their village of Madura, in East Java.

The Shias have been branded a deviant sect by the Islamic authorities in the area and their houses were burned down, with one person killed.

Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim nation but the majority of the country's Muslims are Sunnis.

Being a Shia is not illegal in Indonesia, but religious minorities have complained that they are increasingly becoming the victims of violent crimes that often go unpunished.

Link has video report.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 26 Dec 2012 22:24

in spite of all the above, in India's experience, exploiting the sectarianism in Islam has historically proved to be a dud. it seems, at least in India, and against the Hindus, the Shia/Sunni always join hands eventually if it means the defeat or crushing of the Hindus. so we probably shouldn't blow the sectarianism out of proportion. it will merely be used to shelter and protect some form of Jihad which will eventually cooperate with the supposedly "bad" Jihad and wipe out the Hindu no matter what. any such strategies on our part should be strictly temporary/short-term tactical compromises, to be discarded at the earliest opportunity.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Feb 2013 02:20

Syrian activist group says nearly 300 kidnapped in Syria in retaliation for bus abduction

Duniya Mei Loggo ko Dokha kabhi Ho Jaata Hai : Shia Orr sunni Ko aise deal kiya Jaata Hai

– An activist group says pro-government gunmen have kidnapped more than 300 people in northwestern Syria in retaliation for the abduction of 42 Shiite Muslims this week.
The Britain-based Syrian says the tit-for-tat kidnappings in predominantly Sunni Muslim Idlib province could trigger sectarian clashes in the area.The Observatory said the 42 Shiites, mainly women and children, were snatched Thursday from a bus that was traveling from the Shiite villages of Foua and Kfarya to the capital Damascus.Observatory director Rami Abdul-Rahman said Saturday it was not clear who kidnapped the Shiites.The U.N. Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict, Zainab Hawa Bangura, called for the release of the women.She said "allegations of abduction and rape of women and girls by armed groups have been received."

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 17 Feb 2013 02:45

Can we have a LiLo Style feed for green on green terror.
It might give the Indian secularists a better idea of the rest of the world.

What I have realized is that most Indians do not have a CLUE about the rest of the world.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 17 Feb 2013 19:19

^^ Those thinking of doing this or any other similar exercise are welcome to look into , clone , modify , make a better version and use the below yahoo pipe freely and without any attribution.

http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.info? ... 3713ebb7fa

It involves 2 main initial one time chores

1) Getting a Toponym set (and geotag it with lat long data - this part is easy once you get the toponym set - i can help here to get you the lat long data with a few "google refine" skills i picked up specifically for this exercise) could initially be restricted to ~ 60 or so country names constituting OIC , its observer states and those attempting to gain membership , Some hotspots like Pakistan Iraq Syria Yemen Somalia Indonesia could have their province names too included in this toponym set ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_sta ... ooperation

2) Next is to select RSS feeds from global news outlets (with a sufficient degree of relevance)
they can be filtered then based on keywords again with good degree of "specificity"

some examples of keywords : "Sectarian attack" "Lashkar-e-Jhangvi" "shia kaffir" "Ahmedi" "Sipah-e-Sahaba" "Mahdi army" Badr Brigades" "Ansar Al sunnah" etc
Many more keywords are there to be found in below link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_ ... ng_Muslims

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 18 Feb 2013 09:22

Pakistan close to boiling point after slaughter of Shia minority

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 21 Mar 2013 05:49

Munir Saami on Shia Genocide & Pakistan - Bilatakalluf with Tahir Gora

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 21 Mar 2013 11:03

Carl wrote:Pakistan close to boiling point after slaughter of Shia minority

Don't we have any photos of Khamenei wearing bangles?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 21 Mar 2013 22:09

RajeshA wrote:
Carl wrote:Pakistan close to boiling point after slaughter of Shia minority
Don't we have any photos of Khamenei wearing bangles?

At this time, the overdressed gigolos of Qom and Qazvin can only offer their peace pipeline to Pakistan while the Yanks yank at them with a vice like grip...

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 26 Mar 2013 00:38

The Indian court case that started in 1878

Millions of cases are pending in courts throughout India, a state of affairs which has led to the creation of fast-track courts, most recently in the Delhi gang-rape case. Some trials have lasted for decades, and sometimes for more than a century. BBC Hindi reports on one such long-running case.

A court case about a piece of land in Doshipura, Varanasi, first started when India was under British rule and Lord Lytton was its governor-general, Rutherford Hayes was the 19th president of the US and the Wright brothers were still 25 years away from flying their first aeroplane.

Today, President Barack Obama is the 44th US president, Pranab Mukherjee is the 13th president of independent India, and a man landing on the moon is old news.

Yet, the Doshipura court case, which has been pitting Shia Muslims against Sunnis over two acres of land (87,000 sq ft) for more than a century, is one of the oldest in India.

It began in 1878 - long before India became an independent country in 1947 - and until now, no settlement has been reached.

Jaffar Imam is a Shia Muslim.

His father, grandfather, great-grandfather and their fathers before them fought this case: "They had to, so now we have to fight," he says.

Khalilur Rahman holds the Shia community in Varanasi responsible for the dispute
The other party in the case is Khalilur Rahman, an 80-year-old Sunni Muslim.

He says: "We don't want to contest this, but if someone comes at you, what do you do?"

No solution
It is believed that the maharaja of Benares (as Varanasi was then known) was the original owner of the land.

The Shias say the maharaja gave them the land as a gift out of religious duty; the Sunnis say the plot is actually an old cemetery and the Shias have no religious authority over it.

Compromise?
The Supreme Court has now asked the state government why the ruling of the highest court in the land has been left hanging for 32 years. It seems to want to settle the matter through negotiations.

Mr Imam says each time the Sunnis lose, the court says the land should be given to the Shias. But the Sunnis say the graves cannot be destroyed.

The Shias say that Mughal emperor Shah Jahan first buried his wife Mumtaz Mahal in Burhanpur, and later shifted her grave to the Taj Mahal in Agra. If her tomb could be removed, they ask, then why can't these be relocated?

But Mr Rahman says: "From the beginning, the courts were angry about this case. We are ready to have both Sunnis and Shias use this land for religious purposes."

Mr Imam counters by saying: "Even the highest court of the land is not being respected here. We are not going to allow Sunnis to carry out religious rituals on this piece of land.

"We are a minuscule minority and there are hundreds of thousands of Sunnis in this area; that's why nobody listens to us. But we have full faith in the judiciary," he adds.

And so, the battle continues...

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 26 Mar 2013 00:50

Will Shiite and Sunni Islam Ever Reconcile?

The author has focused on doctrinal issues. In that sense reconciliation may be a little difficult. But political unity is possible and some "legislative" (fiqh) trends shows increasing convergence.

In Iran it was one of Khomeini's main thrusts - to stop or restrict overtly anti-Sunni parts of Iranian culture, and to call for pan-Islamist unity. Now only in some poorer parts of downtown Tehran does one find a mulla's entire sermon devoted to what a bad guy Omar bin Khatab was. Imprecations on the other Caliphs is restricted during the Azadari. "Haji" Piruz (who assassinated Caliph Omar) is not publicly glorified anymore. Etc.

Rising Turkish Islamism is based on thought leaders like Said Nursi - and he also moved to incorporate several Shi'ite customs and preferences into Sunni Islam, such as the Du'a Komeyl and other customs. Turkey itself has a large Shi'a minority.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Apr 2013 19:10

Intra-Mohammadden Green on Green sectarian hatred seems to have infected the Arabic AV media. Iraq suspends licenses of Al-Jazeera and nine other satellite channels for allegedly promoting violence and sectarianism:

Iraqis Suspend Satellite TV Channels For 'Sectarianism'