Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29th May 2012

[Lilo]

Neelaji,

What are these sensibilities - i keep coming across again and again ?

Tell me

Is this some Old Boy's Club to show repeated deference to sensibilities of a clique by sacrificing logic every single time while making an argument ?
Or is this a mob get together easily affronted by any hurt to the sensibilities ?

For what reason is the term "Strategic" appended to the title of this forum ?
Is it to show sensibilities while sacrificing logic ?

and you who are to a good degree responsible for this mini flareup (when people were disengaging and giving out their valedictory statements on generalities related to the issue) by giving your long commentary on our purported personal shortcomings which supposedly injured everyone's sensibilities here - have completely missed my earlier question...

Are you SURE that our intent on this discussion related to indo-pak petro trade is what you claim it to be ? (you mentioned CBMs , people killed , Compromising etc etc in your post)
Iam again asking, have you actually read all our posts on this topic ?

[Neela]

Aaaaandd here we go again.

Neelaji,
What are these sensibilities - i keep coming across again and again ?
Tell me
Is this some Old Boy's Club to show repeated deference to sensibilities of a clique by sacrificing logic every single time while making an argument ?

No! Not an Old boy club at all afaik. No clique here too.
You could look at it that way or you could look at the forum where people from the complete political spectrum participate. You could understand that and chose to answer or ignore when people respond.

Or is this a mob get together easily affronted by any hurt to the sensibilities ?

That is uncalled for. And BTW did you not also take affront at what other;s said. Does it not show that what you said about trade with TSP did not go well.

For what reason is the term "Strategic" appended to the title of this forum ?
Is it to show sensibilities while sacrificing logic ?

Ignoring this drain. It stinks.

and you who are to a good degree responsible for this mini flareup (when people were disengaging and giving out their valedictory statements on generalities related to the issue) by giving your long commentary on our purported personal shortcomings which supposedly injured everyone's sensibilities here - have completely missed my earlier question...
Are you SURE that our intent on this discussion related to indo-pak petro trade is what you claim it to be ? (you mentioned CBMs , people killed , Compromising etc etc in your post)
Iam again asking, have you actually read all our posts on this topic ?

- You say that you want essential commodities in Indian hands and that brings leverage. There were questions raised as to why this should be counted as leverage. The ability to
wage an assymmetrical war with India rests with entities YOU DO NOT HAVE LEVERAGE OVER! As SS-ji said, honour for TSP is to keep fighting with INdia. And petroleum to someone else does not diminish this ability.
- When this move is headed by someone who let India down at SeS , people will question the chankianness.
- You cannot convince a rag tag lot on this forum of your views and resort to "lack of strategic thought from everyone else". Instead of focussing on TSP you call all and everyone all kinds of things .
Sorry mate, you come across as compromising with TSP even theough there is merit. And people will latch on to that weak part and ignore everythign else - this is what I have been saying.

Keep them coming - I am going nowhere even while I keep it civil.

[Lilo]

And BTW did you not also take affront at what other;s said.

You accused me of daftly hurting the "sensibilities" of the majority of BRF posters here (by somehow appropriating the right to represent majority view of BRF by yourself).
Again you have used traitorous elements like CBMs , stable TSP for solarsystem ,compromising etc ...
all blatantly and wrongly attributed to me inspite of my repeated requests,reminders, entreaties from couple of days onwards - that nothing of that sort was ever the intent on my part or ever was said by me. But yet you went ahead.

This is the one and only reason i choose to respond to your post. Those were all affronts directed towards my personal character - not directed to my arguments , not directed to my beliefs (aka "Values") even (which incidentally was your allegation - that we some how affronted the values of this (political?) system represented by BRF)

You could .... chose to answer or ignore when people respond.

Not when personal insuniations are merrily thrown about.

Regarding the arguments on trade in petro, you missed the bus - i have none more to make, i declared this intent yesterday itself.

Nothing is uncalled for in my comparision - "sensibilities" are important only in strict heirarchies or in chaotic mob gettogether prone to get swayed by a demagogue - i think BRF is neither.

I have nothing more to say on this.

[RajeshA]

Lilo ji,

I would suggest you write up your idea, combining the inputs from your posts, and post it in "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread. It is full of some "out-of-the-box" ideas. This here is just not an "ideas" thread.

[Lilo]

Lilo ji,

I would suggest you write up your idea, combining the inputs from your posts, and post it in "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread. It is full of some "out-of-the-box" ideas. This here is just not an "ideas" thread.

Rajeshji you are quite correct . I should have never posted in this high visibility thread. But things panned out so and i was inexperienced enough to not feel the heat creeping on me.

But hopefully there is a next time, and for now i wish for nothing but to be free of this and move on - but then reccurent discussions centered on me are not making it that easy.

[KLNMurthy]

LM ji,
Thanks for your kind words and support.
Frankly I too feel overdone at this point - same contentions were being raised again and again and I was getting tired from replying to them again and again.

I think idea has to acquire critical mass and when some old or reputed hand takes a lead next time, I'll jump right in with my support. Till then ill take a break on this.

Lilo, the fundamental problem is that we get caught up in a "calculating" mode where we convince ourselves that we are being clever and playing for marginal advantage. This is a murky zone with so many imponderables that nearly everything (even giving arms & ammunition to TSP--not a joke; Late Gen. Sunderji once suggested India "sharing" nuclear technology with TSP chanikianly) can be rationalized by taking recourse to the imponderables, or "unknown unknowns" as Rumsfeld would say.

What gives us better clarity of thinking is reverting back to principles and values. In this case, the principle is that TSP is an enemy of India, and the value is that you should harm and not help your enemies. Luckily for us, if we forget this--as we continually do--TSP will always be kind enough to remind us, as in their rejection of the visa regime, or the jet fuel. The visa liberalization was not good enough to them because it was not presented to them in the proper submissive way by chidambaram making the pilgrimage to pak and "submitting".

This dance of pakiness on one side, and appeasement on the other side is a very old and very important thread of a complex relationship between Indian natives and the invading pakis. We can only move forward by seeing it for what it is and freeing ourselves from it.

[KLNMurthy]

My perspective is that, if we don't do something the gentle folks of TSP will decamp enmasse and land up on this side of the electrified border, ration cards and all. You think this can't happen, try telling it to Israel where Palestinian immigration now exceeds Jewish immigration. And Israel has no WKK at the border either. Like it or not TSP has a gun to its head and toxic brain matter is likely to land in our laps. It is truly staggering how many Pakis now call India home already.

So, we don't want pakis landing up en masse in India, therefore to achieve this, we liberalize the visa regime and "make borders meaningless?"

The funny thing is that with pakis it might actually work because they might reject it because we didn't abnegate ourselves enough while giving them all this.

If we were truly chanakian, we would fund a movement in TSP to demand that India apologize for the war of 1971 and pay reparations.

[KLNMurthy]

...

Remember there are many ways to skin a cat and a shooting war is not the only way. Economic warfare is also a viable option and that can be waged only when there's leverage.

Anyway my last post on this issue. There's too much wind blowing in the opposite direction for a p!!sing contest.

Maybe your last post, but at least your idea is there for discussion...

I am one of those that advocates attacking TSP by non-military means with the goal of wearing it down to an unrecognizable nub a la voldemort.

The statement that econ. warfare needs leverage may be true but does it mean that we have to acquire said leverage by supplying TSP with essential and foundational commodities like fuel? I see TSP waging economic warfare against India just fine with fake currency notes etc., without, from all accounts, worrying overmuch about acquiring similar leverage. On the other hand, I have seen no evidence in Indian establishment's conduct to suggest that they have the mindset or will to wage economic warfare against TSP.

Shouldn't it be a requirement that ideas, to be viable, stand up to scrutiny on fundamentals such as being principled as well as realistic? I agree that there is some superficial appeal to the idea of "treating TSP like a troubled Indian state" especially if the gut recoils at the idea of prolonged--even perpetual--conflict, but does it really stand up to more than 2 minutes of examination? The Center has a lot more control over states than we will ever have over TSP; people in (formerly) troubled Indian states like Bihar, Orissa are largely rational actors who will eventually come around to choosing regimes that will pursue some sort of constructive policies; can we say anything remotely the same about TSPians whose mindset spans the spectrum from self-pitying narcissism forever crying for validation, all the way to rabid hatred of Hindus? Is any culture capable of functioning constructively and rationally when that is the dominant mindset?

[KLNMurthy]

...

No one here advocated trade as a CBM - neither myself nor Amitji. Nor have we never advocated it as a measure to "normalize" relationship with pakis. Nor have we advocated it as a measure to help pakis.
It should be amply clear to anyone following the discussion with an objective mind.
...

The problem is that, taken as a way of exerting control over TSP, trade (which may be marginally beneficial to India but will be significantly beneficial to TSP--otherwise they will never accept it) is a poorly thought out strategy which is "too clever by half."

We need to stop lying to ourselves about what TSP actually is. It is hard to do so, since the reality of TSP is far uglier than what the essentially good-hearted SDREs can conjure up in their sickest nightmares.

[KLNMurthy]

Neelaji,

What are these sensibilities - i keep coming across again and again ?

Tell me

Is this some Old Boy's Club to show repeated deference to sensibilities of a clique by sacrificing logic every single time while making an argument ?
Or is this a mob get together easily affronted by any hurt to the sensibilities ?

For what reason is the term "Strategic" appended to the title of this forum ?
Is it to show sensibilities while sacrificing logic ?

and you who are to a good degree responsible for this mini flareup (when people were disengaging and giving out their valedictory statements on generalities related to the issue) by giving your long commentary on our purported personal shortcomings which supposedly injured everyone's sensibilities here - have completely missed my earlier question...

Are you SURE that our intent on this discussion related to indo-pak petro trade is what you claim it to be ? (you mentioned CBMs , people killed , Compromising etc etc in your post)
Iam again asking, have you actually read all our posts on this topic ?

Lilo, maybe we can all get past the personal stuff and try to come to some understanding of each other.

Neela is probably referring to a palpable sense of frustration and anger that many of us feel over the Indian establishment's party line over appeasing TSP. Yes, the forum is "strategic" but this is the world of human affairs, and strategy follows collective sentiment and doesn't lead it.

Many of us, even sometime card-carrying leftie WKKs like myself, have experienced a process of disillusionment and "iron entering the soul" with respect to TSP over the years, as premise after premise collapsed in the face of countervailing evidence presented by TSP behavior. For many of us, 26/11 was the culmination of this process. I find that I can't justify to myself any attitude other than unremitting hostility towards TSP after this, as long as TSP doesn't show tangible and fundamental change, starting, for example, with what they put in their school books. They not only don't make any changes, they don't even recognize the obligation to change.

With this reality in place, there is no way any Indian initiative to "acquire leverage" over TSP via investment etc., would be accepted by TSP unless it passes the test of "submission" by India; I, on the other hand, and I suspect many others on this form, would like to see Indian investment in TSP as a favor India is doing to TSP, in exchange for tangible movement on transforming itself incrementally into a normal state. We have a huge problem with India making unilateral deals that may have marginal benefit for India, without attaching any strings up front, and then selling it to the Indian public as a chankian deal that will put TSP b*alls in our hands. This, to us, is such obvious snake oil and so void of principle that it provokes a strong reaction.

[RajeshA]

This is my criteria for a viable TSP strategy:

If a strategy is based on changing the behavior of TSP through goodwill towards us or mutual dependency or something like that, then it is just not going to work.

Any strategy of interaction with the Pakis has to pass two tests:

1. if it causes long term deterioration of some key strength of Pakistan (weakens)
2. if it ensures that the poison in Pakistan does not jump over the border into India, (isolates)

then it is definitely worth considering.

[Neela]

Neela is probably referring to a palpable sense of frustration and anger that many of us feel over the Indian establishment's party line over appeasing TSP. Yes, the forum is "strategic" but this is the world of human affairs, and strategy follows collective sentiment and doesn't lead it.

To give you an idea as to how far GoI is falling behind - see this -Pakistan Partition dues - 300 crores (1950) . And hon'ble ministry has not put any interest on it.
The list of Pakistan's to-do is massive!

[negi]

Indian strategists have a big ghanta to show when it comes to coming up with strategy to deal with TSP, reams of files and papers have been written with all kinds of mumbo jumbo but the underlying mindset/stance has not changed i.e never be the one to draw first blood. Every history book starts with a fawning description of how we have never been an aggressor while others have in the past ravaged other nations, they should perhaps also highlight the dark trait of enjoying the pain of being oppressed and do nothing about it, at times we will have an excuse of not having enough to eat and wear and then like these days we will be asked to think out of the box for the heck of it .

[KLNMurthy]

Here is a case of TSP-generated hatred spreading to India, by way of Paki Republic of Australia:

Sydney, Australia: Thinking Aloud | Hate mongering in God’s name

The four-hour long conference, held in a Sydney town hall, rented from an avowedly secular city council, was organised by the Islamic Forum for Australian Muslims. While the invitation could have led one to think of it as an ‘inclusive’ Muslim conference, in fact the aim was to generate hatred against the Ahmedi minority sect, which was excommunicated by the Pakistani parliament (no less) in 1974 and by majority Muslim public opinion long before that. The persecution of this community has now extended to other Muslim countries, most notably Indonesia and Bangladesh.

One of the four speakers devoted himself entirely to the vilification and demonisation of the founder of the Ahmedi sect. It is noteworthy that, of the four, three were from India, the keynote speaker being a prominent leader of the Indian Jamaat-e-Islami.

A sensible policy of engagement with TSP would, for example, couple a liberalization of the visa regime with TSP-specific visa forms that include a declaration that they believe religion is a personal matter, and they will undertake to not spread any religious hatred while in India.

[Aditya_V]

A truly Chanakya thing would be for Pakis to develop identity politics like the West has developed in India to a degree that they Pakis soo much that they start a civil war and decimate themselves.

[Lilo]

Lilo, the fundamental problem is that we get caught up in a "calculating" mode where we convince ourselves that we are being clever and playing for marginal advantage. This is a murky zone with so many imponderables that nearly everything (even giving arms & ammunition to TSP--not a joke; Late Gen. Sunderji once suggested India "sharing" nuclear technology with TSP chanikianly) can be rationalized by taking recourse to the imponderables, or "unknown unknowns" as Rumsfeld would say.

What gives us better clarity of thinking is reverting back to principles and values. In this case, the principle is that TSP is an enemy of India, and the value is that you should harm and not help your enemies. Luckily for us, if we forget this--as we continually do--TSP will always be kind enough to remind us, as in their rejection of the visa regime, or the jet fuel. The visa liberalization was not good enough to them because it was not presented to them in the proper submissive way by chidambaram making the pilgrimage to pak and "submitting".

Murthy garu,

Many thanks for your refreshing comments.
I think i cant contest your assertion on the futility of an over the board trade relationship with pakis. Because frankly i havent made up my mind as India's quest for control in such a relationship will be fraught with many pitfalls and many uncertain questions. I have listed a few such questions here - but you may have seen them already.

But then what is your view on the petro trade issue with pakis which was the predominant issue touched upon in my posts and the fact that pakis wont be having alternatives anymore as ultimately the GCC is supporting this shift ?

[Pratyush]

Guys,

WRT, The CBM and trade related discussion. Looking at the situation in detached manner, it is evident that no amount of CBM will work with TSP. Simply because, it has done nothing to earn Indian trust.

Moreover, any concession by India will be seen as a reward of persistent bad behavior, by the elites of TSP.

However, I will be ready to believe that the TSP has changed for the better and would be open to trading with that nation state. When they take credible and verifiable, and irrevocable action against the criminals who are harbored by the TSP.

In the absence of any such steps by TSP, any talk of CBM or CBM through trade is premature and a waste of time.

JMT and all that applies.

[Anujan]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/387208/cost ... ettisoned/

Pakistan has formally abandoned the claim of suffering immensely from the ongoing war on terror, saying that this in fact “hurt the economy, rather than bringing about any benefit.”

According to last year’s economic survey, Pakistan has suffered almost $68 billion in cumulative losses over the past decade due to the ongoing war on terrorism. Finance ministry officials, however, said the $68 billion figure proved to be wrong during this year’s initial assessments.
“We did not want to drastically revise this figure downward, as it might have raised the issue of the credibility of the country’s statistics”, official said.

[pgbhat]

I mean who would have thought lying would result in losing credibility.

[abhijitm]

^^ which credibility?

[KLNMurthy]

Murthy garu,

Many thanks for your refreshing comments.
I think i cant contest your assertion on the futility of an over the board trade relationship with pakis. Because frankly i havent made up my mind as India's quest for control in such a relationship will be fraught with many pitfalls and many uncertain questions. I have listed a few such questions here - but you may have seen them already.

But then what is your view on the petro trade issue with pakis which was the predominant issue touched upon in my posts and the fact that pakis wont be having alternatives anymore as ultimately the GCC is supporting this shift ?

Lilo garu, I have written enough words here to indicate that for me, it is a no-brainer to oppose the sale of value added fuel to TSP. GCC - India deals need to be bilateral and it is not our problem if they want to offload the risk and cost of supplying fuel to TSP. We are simply being bakras (talking loudly and rapidly to ourselves to make ourselves believe otherwise). Besided, fuel is the kind of commodity that will be grabbed first and foremost by TSPA/RAPE , the very segment that should be in our crosshairs.

Now if someone came up with a creative scheme like India supplying subsidised daal-chawal to BPL paki abduls, with preference to low castes, you might see me scratching my head in indecision about such a move. But I am sorry to say the whole fuel idea is, to my mind, obviously stupid.

[RCase]

^^^ The sell by date for this excuse for begging has long elapsed. Pakistan needs to come up with a new and improved begging slogan. Forget, the credibility... No one bought the outrageous claims of inflated losses, when there was nothing worthwhile to export emerging from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

[Kanishka]

How low can we go?

FOR years, others and I have been writing about Pakistan’s low standing in the community of nations.

Thanks to a recent BBC survey on how popular various countries are around the world, we now know just how low we have sunk.

According to this poll, conducted among 24,000 respondents around the world, Pakistan is joint last, together with Iran.

One place above us is North Korea, and fourth from the bottom is Israel. This, then, is the company we are keeping in the eyes of the world.

Another reason Pakistan is in such bad standing abroad is the extortionate stand we had taken in our negotiations over the rate we want to charge Nato to transport supplies to Afghanistan. While it is perfectly reasonable to expect compensation for the damage to our roads caused by this increased traffic, jacking up the cost from $250 to $5,000 per truck was, by any standard, highway robbery.

Worse, we are widely viewed as the epicentre of Islamic militancy, training and motivating foreigners to commit mayhem in their own countries.

Our paranoid worldview has convinced vast numbers of Pakistanis that the rest of the world is out to get us. But what most foreigners would really like to happen is for Pakistan to just somehow vanish, together with all the headaches it is causing the world

But we ignore world opinion to our peril: as dangers — most of them of our own making — multiply, and our economy sinks further into a black hole, we desperately need more, not less, external help. Although our generals are the biggest hurdles in evolving a healthy relationship with the West, they are also the ones who are most addicted to US aid. Without modern American equipment and spare parts, they cannot mount a credible defence against the vast Indian war machine that they so fear.

The reality is that such intransigence will cause unnecessary bitterness in Washington. We must remember that militarily and economically, we are minnows compared with the American behemoth. Indeed, I was appalled to read an article by a retired ambassador on this page recently in which he casually discussed the possibility of a nuclear exchange with the US.

This offhand comment tells us why we are at the bottom of the BBC’s popularity survey.

[Sushupti]

Refusing to cooperate: ‘ASF men rough up Saudi embassy official’

http://tribune.com.pk/story/387187/refu ... -official/

[ramana]

So maybe they want KSA to pay hafta?

lets see how Abdullah will respond?

Last time a minion sent the Caliph spoiled goods he had the fellow sewn up in untanned goat skins and left him to whither in the sun.

For starters KSA should cut the fuel subsidy.

[Jayram]

Tangentially related.. that BBC survey is here.
BBC Survey
Click on the graph image in the middle of that link. Scroll to India's influence as perceived by countries around the world. Notice how the usual suspects like China and Pak view us negatively. Notice how aam janata in Australia seem to view us as negatively as those in China.. No surprise but confirmation of Austalian attitudes to us..

[kenop]

Piss ke liye

India has agreed to discuss the sensitive Siachen issue at the June 11-12 secretary-level meeting with Pakistan, pushing the Sir Creek issue – another flashpoint – way down the agenda. Observers say the reason for resetting the priorities is that Siachen being a far more complex issue than Sir Creek, any
leeway on that front may give Pakistan the domestic leverage necessary to push ahead with the peace process.

The Siachen glacier is known as the world's highest battlefield where troops have been deployed at elevations of up to 22,000 feet. Sir Creek, a 96 km disputed strip of water in the Rann of Kutch, divides the Kutch region between Gujarat and Sindh province of Pakistan.

Pakistan wants to know how far India will be flexible on the Siachen issue before revealing its cards on Sir Creek. It was at the insistence of Pakistan that the talks on Sir Creek scheduled in May had to be postponed and the new dates have not yet been decided.

Also, New Delhi is deciphering the confusing signals from across the border, including that of the neighbour backing out of signing the new visa agreement at the last moment.

The Siachen troop withdrawal issue gained prominence in Pakistan following a massive avalanche burying a Pakistan army camp in Siachen on April 7, resulting in the death of 129 soldiers and 11 civilians.

Just after the incident, Pakistan president Asif Ali Zardari advocated for troop withdrawal from Siachen during his informal meeting with PM Manmohan Singh in April.

The foreign secretary-level meeting is expected to prepare the ground for external affairs minister SM Krishna’s Pakistan tour probably in the third week of July to review the peace process.

Kaffir hindu bania is fooling the pissers of pukistan. It is Cashmere not Siachin tha needs to be resolved.

[sum]

UAE prince loses falcons in Pak, to get Rs 36 mn compensation

Pakistan will pay a UAE prince a whopping Rs 36 million as compensation for four of his falcons that flew away when customs officials mishandled them at the Rawalpindi airport causing him mental and emotional anguish.

After Sheikh Muhammad Sultan Ahmed Mualla lost his falcons at the airport in Rawalpindi in March, the Federal Tax Ombudsman directed the Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) to pay him Rs 35 million as compensation for the birds and an additional Rs 1 million for the mental and emotional anguish caused to him, a media report said today.

The ombudsman directed the FBR to submit a compliance report within 30 days, The News daily reported.

Truely a rentier state!

[ramana]

What is the Sir Creek issue that makes it so important for the pis talks?

[ArmenT]

UAE prince loses falcons in Pak, to get Rs 36 mn compensation
Truely a rentier state!

That's not much money actually. I did the math with today's exchange rate ($1 = 93.72 PKR) and it comes out to $384,122.91 (i.e.) less than $400,000. I was expecting the prince to demand at least 1 million $ per bird. Still, $400,000 is nothing to be sneezed at.

[Anurag]

Hasan Nisar as always at Distorted History of Pakistan! LOL

[youtube]/xnkpa8pdLVs&feature=g-vre[/youtube]c

[Charlie]

Najam Sethi: Baloch unrest is a Payback from India

There are other reasons for disquiet. The meeting chaired by the PM was attended by the Army Chief, DG-ISI, CM and Governor of Balochistan. But the DG-Military Intelligence and Inspector General-Frontier Corps were conspicuous by their absence, despite the fact that the FC and MI are veritably in the eye of the storm. They are charged with developing and operating an anti-insurgent policy in Balochistan that has become part of the problem rather than the solution. FC Balochistan is 40,000 strong; it is an amalgam of Border Scouts and Militias along the Durand Line with Afghanistan and is led by a serving major general of the Pakistan army who is answerable to GHQ rather than the Interior Ministry; it has been a front line recipient of billions of dollars in training and equipment from the Americans for counter-insurgency operations in FATA since 2007 where it remains a core military strike force. Indeed, the Supreme Court has seen evidence that shows the FC is targeting and arresting suspected Baloch troublemakers and making them "disappear". Qamar Zaman Kaira, the Information Minister, has said that the FC would henceforth report to the CM of Balochistan and confine itself to maintaining law and order only. This is an admission that the FC was until now not reporting to the provincial government and was in fact conducting anti-insurgent operations.

Another dimension of the military solution has not even been mentioned. This is the role of military agencies in creating and propping up several armed non-state actors or Tribal Lashkars of "patriotic" Pakistanis to combat the "treasonable" separatists in Balochistan. These groups are used to identify, target and carry out reprisals against nationalist elements in the remote areas of the southern and coastal parts of the province.

The military has a simplistic view of the problem: the Baloch separatists are misguided, aided and abetted by enemies Afghanistan and India, even America, to attack Pakistan's security agencies, fuel chaos and fear, and create the pre-conditions for dismembering Pakistan; the solution is to crush the insurgents without regard for niceties like due process of law and human rights.

But this strategy isn't working for precisely the same reasons that the American strategy to fight the Taliban isn't working in Afghanistan: the Pakistanis are abetting the Afghan Taliban and thwarting NATO efforts to degrade them for a political compromise; the Afghans and Indians are abetting the Baloch insurgents and encouraging them to reject politically inclusive solutions within Pakistan. They are doing this because Pakistan's secret agencies have fomented jihad in Indian administered Kashmir for two decades and Talibanism in Afghanistan since 1996. It's payback time.

Pakistan's civil-military establishment needs a three-pronged strategy to solve Balochistan. First, it must stop provoking and alienating Afghanistan and India by state-sponsored cross-border terrorism as an element of Pakistan's national security doctrine. This will help negate any "pull" factor provided to the Baloch insurgents by them. Second, it must create a political environment to negate the "push" factor in Balochistan that led to the exile of the leaders of the insurgency in the first place in 2002 following the installation of Military-Mullah regimes in KPK and Balochistan. Third, it must reach out quickly on both fronts so that the opportunity for truth and reconciliation provided by the forthcoming elections later this year is not missed. It's a tall order.

[RCase]

UAE prince loses falcons in Pak, to get Rs 36 mn compensation
Truely a rentier state!

That's not much money actually. I did the math with today's exchange rate ($1 = 93.72 PKR) and it comes out to $384,122.91 (i.e.) less than $400,000. I was expecting the prince to demand at least 1 million $ per bird. Still, $400,000 is nothing to be sneezed at.

I hope the Pakis are not pulling a Zardari on the Sheikh, like the folks in Ajmer are still waiting for the check to arrive! Even IF he were to get paid, he should check to see if the currency is real or fake.

[Brad Goodman]

Small heart only
No room for PCB as BCCI aims to host all matches

The Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) is insisting on playing all the matches of the proposed Indo-Pak series on its own soil while the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) is keen to host at least one T20 and a One-day International as negotiations between the two boards continue, well-informed sources told Dawn.

According to the Future Tours Programme (FTP), it is India’s turn to tour Pakistan because their 2009 visit here could not materialise due to strained relations between the two nations following the Mumbai attacks in November 2008.

As for the proposed Indo-Pak series, sources disclosed that the BCCI has already allotted the matches to its affiliated states and is not willing to allow PCB to host even a single match in Pakistan.

In return, however, the BCCI is offering handsome financial packages one of which include that all the media right income will be awarded to the PCB which is desperately looking to improve its financial position.

In a recent interview with Dawn, PCB Chairman Zaka Ashraf had said that the financial position of the Board could get a tremendous boost if India and other countries started touring Pakistan.

But the BCCI’s firm stand over not touring Pakistan for even one T20 and one ODI may create difficulties for the PCB who will find it hard to convince fans at home about the odd terms and conditions of the series.

That said, it will also not be easy for the PCB to turn down the lucrative financial package of the BCCI.

Sources said though the BCCI was not too keen to resume the bilateral series, it recently changed its stance after a strict reminder from their prime minister following President Asif Zardari’s visit to Delhi early last month.

[anupmisra]

Last time a minion sent the Caliph spoiled goods he had the fellow sewn up in untanned goat skins and left him to whither in the sun. For starters KSA should cut the fuel subsidy.

All hail Qasim, the bold. By the way, besides cutting off the subsidies, KSA can do one or more of the following to the purelanders to exact immediate satisfaction:

1. Repatriate those millions of unwashed pakis who send $$Billions back to pa'astan to bolster up its reserves that pay the ever increasing debt service
2. Push more wandering wahabis into the hinterlands of pa'astan
3. Bribe a pack of mid ranking colonel or brigadier or two to think beyond nationhood and focus more on the ummah
4. Stop patronizing the hunting grounds of Sind and Balochistan where protected birds can be hunted for cheap
5. Demand back payments of those soft loans in the '80s and '90s that were "forgiven"
6. Relegate paki hajis to the back of the line (even behind the eyerainians) for the next year's annual soiree
7. Demand monetary compensation as blood money for the killing of a naturalized saudi citizen on paki soil

Hell! I am beginning to like this.

[anupmisra]

Small heart only No room for PCB as BCCI aims to host all matches

In return, however, the BCCI is offering handsome financial packages one of which include that all the media right income will be awarded to the PCB which is desperately looking to improve its financial position.

What!! The baniya in me (by marriage) is infuriated, to put it mildly. That is one bum of a deal for BCCI. Who did the negotiations? Larry, Curly or Moe? Why wouldn't PCB take this offer? All gain for no risk!

[milindc]

In return, however, the BCCI is offering handsome financial packages one of which include that all the media right income will be awarded to the PCB which is desperately looking to improve its financial position.

What!! The baniya in me (by marriage) is infuriated, to put it mildly. That is one bum of a deal for BCCI. Who did the negotiations? Larry, Curly or Moe? Why wouldn't PCB take this offer? All gain for no risk!

Thats the Paki news rag stating the PCB position .. wait till the baniya BCCI is roasted by Pakis for declining that as well

[Aditya_V]

Last time a minion sent the Caliph spoiled goods he had the fellow sewn up in untanned goat skins and left him to whither in the sun. For starters KSA should cut the fuel subsidy.

All hail Qasim, the bold. By the way, besdies cutting off the subsidies, KSA can do one or more of the following to the purelanders to exact immediate satisfaction:

1. Repatriate those millions of unwashed pakis who send $$Billions back to pa'astan to bolster up its reserves that pay the ever increasing debt service
2. Push more wandering wahabis into the hinterlands of pa'astan
3. Bribe a pack of mid ranking colonel or brigadier or two to think beyond nationhood and focus more on the ummah
4. Stop patronizing the hunting grounds of Sind and Balochistan where protected birds can be hunted for cheap
5. Demand back payments of those soft loans in the '80s and '90s that were "forgiven"
6. Relegate paki hajis to the back of the line (even behind the eyerainians) for the next year's annual soiree
7. Demand monetary compensation as blood money for the killing of a naturalized saudi citizen on paki soil

Hell! I am beginning to like this.

Above all, they can get the whole Pack declared as Kaffirs and use financial muscle power that virtually all Pakis are Kaffirs. Where do Pakis go from there.

[Rajdeep]

Above all, they can get the whole Pack declared as Kaffirs and use financial muscle power that virtually all Pakis are Kaffirs. Where do Pakis go from there.

They will not hurt their barking dog (against Iran), maybe just a swift kick and the dog will fall in line.

[Picklu]

Sorry for being late and the debate seems to be almost closed but let me add the two points anyway.

1. India did stop PIA overflight when it didn't have any other leverage. Having a POL tap readily available might not be that bad an idea. The tap may outlive MMS government.
2. Like it or not, there will be pressure for CBM time to time (sheer bad luck to have a rabid dog as neighbour). A baniya CBM like this is far more preferable than an almost irrevocable one like Saltoro or Sir Creek. Loosing money is far better than loosing land (or god forbid loosing life through a liberal visa regime).