China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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NRao
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by NRao »

Oct, 2014 :: China's Aircraft Carrier Trouble: Spewing Steam and Losing Power

Ni idea about web site or author. So take it for what it is worth.

'Liaoning' shut down during recent sea trials
There’s no more of a conspicuous and potent symbol of China’s growing naval power than the aircraft carrier Liaoning.

But the 53,000-ton, 999-foot-long carrier could be dangerous to her crew and prone to engine failures. If so, that makes the vessel as much of a liability as an asset to Beijing.

The ex-Soviet carrier once went by the name Varyag until a cash-strapped Ukraine sold the ship to Beijing in 1998. The Chinese navy has since invested considerable resources into modernizing the warship and testing her at sea.

But on at least one occasion during recent sea trials, Liaoning appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier’s electrical power system. The failure, reported by Chinese media site Sina.com, resulting from a leak in “the machine oven compartment to the water pipes.”

We’re only able to glimpse at the carrier’s engine problems, as we know very little about what’s inside the ship. This includes even what kind of engines Liaoning has.

The Chinese government also doesn’t like to admit to problems with its military hardware. When it does—and that’s never guaranteed—the admissions often come months or years after problems come up.

During the accident, hot water and steam began “spewing” out of the engine’s oven compartment, Sina.com reported. One cabin became “instantly submerged in water vapor,” the report added.

The crew immediately evacuated the cabin, with one officer apparently pulling a sailor out by his collar to save him from the extremely hot steam. The carrier then lost power, but the crew “eventually restored power to ensure the smooth operation of the ship.”

Fortunately, this doesn’t appear to have been a catastrophic boiler failure of the kind that would unleash almost instantaneously lethal, high-pressure steam. It’s possible Liaoning instead suffered a low-pressure steam release involving a faulty heat exchanger. Vessels commonly use heat exchangers to control water temperature necessary for regulating internal power and heating.

The Chinese navy began modernizing the ex-Varyag in 2005—essentially rebuilding the carrier from the inside. New electronics, self-defense anti-aircraft guns and new engines were just some of the upgrades. The warship in her unimproved condition was a “basket case,” an unnamed officer told the Website.

Engine failures are not an unknown phenomenon aboard ex-Soviet carriers. The 40,000-ton displacement Indian carrier Vikramaditya—first a Soviet Kiev-class carrier commissioned in 1987 and sold in 2004—temporarily shut down at sea after a boiler overheated two years ago.

The 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov also goes nowhere without a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway.

The Chinese navy isn’t going to get rid of Liaoning any time soon. She’s Beijing’s first serviceable carrier and the ship is a valuable resource for naval flight operations. Even if China never sends her into battle, she’s useful for training and learning how carriers work.

But powerplant problems can also make it so China can do little else. Failures can add costly repairs, shorten the vessel’s lifespan and force her to crawl along the water at slow speeds. Beijing also lacks large overseas naval bases—a necessity if trouble arises while Liaoning sails far from China’s shores.

If she ever does. Liaoning is more alike to its ex-Soviet cousins than different—confined to home ports and restricted from challenging rivals like India.

“Since China began to send navy convoys on anti-piracy missions to the Gulf of Aden and the Somali coast in 2008,” military analyst Liu Zhongmin wrote in Global Times in 2010. “The lack of overseas bases has emerged as a major impediment to the Chinese navy’s cruising efficiency.”

Now add the possibility of engine problems.
tushar_m

Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by tushar_m »

Chinese PLAAF Chengdu J-10 crashes in Sichuan province
According to reports reaching out from local Chinese media , the single seater Chengdu J-10 developed engine problems just after take off and crashed at the entrance of a local mall.

AL31FP engine is cleary visible at the crash site and it is possible that this fighter was commissioned just 2 days ago.

Cannot ignore how quickly the blame has been shifted to imported Russian AL31FP engine.
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Source : http://www.asiandefencenews.com/2014/11 ... chuan.html
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

http://news.usni.org/2014/11/12/china-c ... g-corvette

China Commissions New Sub Hunting Corvette
By: Sam LaGrone
Published: November 12, 2014 11:34 AM • Updated: November 12, 2014 2:16 PM

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China has commissioned a corvette variant focused on anti submarine warfare (ASW), expanding the capability of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) to find and hunt submarines in the South China Sea, according to Tuesday local press reports via Jane’s Defence Weekly.

Zhuzhou is the 18th Jiangdao-class corvette to enter the Chinese fleet and the first specifically planned for ASW.

In addition to the array of guided anti-ship and anti-air missiles, the Type-56 corvettes already include a hull-mounted sonar, according to U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World.

Some of the corvettes are also being equipped with towed sonar arrays, Combat Fleets author Eric Wertheim told USNI News on Wednesday.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

indranilroy wrote:I know. But I love the J-31 more :-)
Supposedly what the next prototype of J-31 will look like.

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Imagel
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by NRao »

I came across an article of whom will the Chinese export all this (J-31 included) to.

Outside of Pakis there is really no one worth talking about.



So, at times, I wonder why all this for an export oriented plane. Or do the Chinese intend to have a model they use for themselves?
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by milanforever »

NRao wrote:I came across an article of whom will the Chinese export all this (J-31 included) to.

Outside of Pakis there is really no one worth talking about.



So, at times, I wonder why all this for an export oriented plane. Or do the Chinese intend to have a model they use for themselves?
Not sure even PLAAF or PLA navy air force will buy it. It 's a product with SAC's own funding. Probably only a technology demonstrator.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by NRao »

Ding wrote:
NRao wrote:I came across an article of whom will the Chinese export all this (J-31 included) to.

Outside of Pakis there is really no one worth talking about.



So, at times, I wonder why all this for an export oriented plane. Or do the Chinese intend to have a model they use for themselves?
Not sure even PLAAF or PLA navy air force will buy it. It 's a product with SAC's own funding. Probably only a technology demonstrator.
I was not aware it was based on internal funding. Actually that is a great step ......... something that is needed for building a MIC. To that extent kudos to SAC.


However, I took a quick peek at which all nations china currently exports to. None of them would need this plane (Pkais being an exception). Among those that may need it, most, if not all are have some sort of territorial issue with china (which make an Indian export that much more viable I would think).
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by milanforever »

NRao wrote:

I was not aware it was based on internal funding. Actually that is a great step ......... something that is needed for building a MIC. To that extent kudos to SAC.


However, I took a quick peek at which all nations china currently exports to. None of them would need this plane (Pkais being an exception). Among those that may need it, most, if not all are have some sort of territorial issue with china (which make an Indian export that much more viable I would think).
I won't be surprised if there are no buyers for this plane. Not sure if Pakistan can afford it because it wont be cheap. plus China don't have capable engines for this airplane yet, which will take long time to develop.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by HKumar »

http://www.asiandefencenews.com/2014/11 ... ernal.html


Closeups on J-31 internal weapons bay. What caught my eye is the weld job - especially in this photo. Its hard to imagine any fighter let alone a "stealth" one with this workmanship.


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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Viv S »

HKumar wrote:Closeups on J-31 internal weapons bay. What caught my eye is the weld job - especially in this photo. Its hard to imagine any fighter let alone a "stealth" one with this workmanship.
That's not welding. Its a flap. It wouldn't function if welded to the wing.

While the rear half, particularly around the engine seems rough (they're probably still experimenting with the WS-13), the rest of it appears pretty decent.

You can barely see the nose-wheel door.


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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by HKumar »

^^^ thanks for the correction.

The flaps in front of the wings don't have the same mechanism. Its much smoother.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by VijayN »

[quote="tushar_m"]Chinese PLAAF Chengdu J-10 crashes in Sichuan province[quote]

Here is the video link of the crashed J-10

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd7_1416198653
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Singha »

for the size of a/c it does touch upon all the right checkboxes and will not need a overly powerful engine like the JSF. having two engines makes it rather simple to get a high T:W ratio even on a boxy internal bay airframe.

the electronics, engine, materials may not be upto JSF std yet but I dont see it cannot steadily improve as time passes.

why would the PLAAF not use it in place of the J-10 and F-7 ?

the J-20 would presumably replace the FBC-1 and J-8

while ADA is busy with scale models of the AMCA for aeroindia, Cheen is busy gathering reams of actual data vs various radar and EO spectrum from a flying proto. we are not remotely close to rolling out the TD of the AMCA. they have taken a lead of atleast 10 years in this vital area. truth is harsh but needs to be acknowledged
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28840 »

the UPA and the bureaucracy have stalled all our projects and managed to line their pockets with our tax money. The AMCA concept and mockup have been doing the rounds at airshows and exhibitions for the better part of a decade, and we still have nothing to show for it.

the slow pace of the LCA induction (the prototypes have been flying for 14 years!!!) and the lack of decisiveness in the kaveri engine and radar saga's have set us back by decades forcing us to play catch up with the Chinese, who were considered a technologically inferior foe not that long ago.

My biggest personal disappointment however is the AVATAR RLV, we have had presentations and mockups since atleast 2002, then there were reports of the O2 collection system being developed and tested and after all that still nothing, not even a scale model... and in the mean time the US has gone ahead and started launching the X37 (which although not as encompassing in its scope as the Avatar, is still a remarkable feat of engineering.)

i am glad that the winds of change have finally started blowing with NaMo, however he has his work cut out for him turning back decades of misrule.

apologies for the semi OT rant. mods please delete if warranted.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by milanforever »

Singha wrote:for the size of a/c it does touch upon all the right checkboxes and will not need a overly powerful engine like the JSF. having two engines makes it rather simple to get a high T:W ratio even on a boxy internal bay airframe.

the electronics, engine, materials may not be upto JSF std yet but I dont see it cannot steadily improve as time passes.

why would the PLAAF not use it in place of the J-10 and F-7 ?

the J-20 would presumably replace the FBC-1 and J-8
One of the main concerns about FC-31 is its range. The airplane is of Mig-29 class, smaller than Su-27. Because of the two-engine design, the internal space for fuel is limited. From what I've read, PLAAF isn't so interested in a short range fighter nowadays. Actually the FC-31 2.0 mock-up shows that it's enlarged quite a bit compared to the first airplane, indicating that the space for fuel will be bigger.

Here is a comparison of flanker and FC-31.

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There was some rumor that FC-31 could be chosen by PLANAF for its aircraft carrier but there are also arguements that the process for that isn't started yet because PLA navy doesn't have much experience of operating J-15 on carrier and they are not in such a hurry to make a decision on the next generation fighter.

And at last, the engine. J-20 at least has 117s or at the worst AL-31F as options for the first phase. Also WS-15 has been developed for years and is expected to be used for J-20 in the second phase, supposedly after 2020. As for FC-31, the project of a domestic engine from what I've read, only started not long time ago.

My guess is that it's probably too early to predict what the FC-31 project will end up like. It will largely depend on if it gets funding suport from the government and military.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Liu »

Ding wrote:
Singha wrote:for the size of a/c it does touch upon all the right checkboxes and will not need a overly powerful engine like the JSF. having two engines makes it rather simple to get a high T:W ratio even on a boxy internal bay airframe.

the electronics, engine, materials may not be upto JSF std yet but I dont see it cannot steadily improve as time passes.

why would the PLAAF not use it in place of the J-10 and F-7 ?

the J-20 would presumably replace the FBC-1 and J-8
One of the main concerns about FC-31 is its range. The airplane is of Mig-29 class, smaller than Su-27. Because of the two-engine design, the internal space for fuel is limited. From what I've read, PLAAF isn't so interested in a short range fighter nowadays. Actually the FC-31 2.0 mock-up shows that it's enlarged quite a bit compared to the first airplane, indicating that the space for fuel will be bigger.

Here is a comparison of flanker and FC-31.

Image

There was some rumor that FC-31 could be chosen by PLANAF for its aircraft carrier but there are also arguements that the process for that isn't started yet because PLA navy doesn't have much experience of operating J-15 on carrier and they are not in such a hurry to make a decision on the next generation fighter.

And at last, the engine. J-20 at least has 117s or at the worst AL-31F as options for the first phase. Also WS-15 has been developed for years and is expected to be used for J-20 in the second phase, supposedly after 2020. As for FC-31, the project of a domestic engine from what I've read, only started not long time ago.

My guess is that it's probably too early to predict what the FC-31 project will end up like. It will largely depend on if it gets funding suport from the government and military.
the modified ws10 might be the alternatives engine for J20/j31. according to the deputy chief engineer of ws10 project, the new modified type of ws10 has a thrust almost equal to russia's 117s........which might be the reason why china is not as eager for the sale of su35 as russia. except 117s engine, su35 can provide nothing which interests china. BTW, according to news from Zhuhai, russia failed to market su35 to china again. no deal done.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by brar_w »

117S class thrust would most likely not be optimum for the J-31 while being pretty much perfect for the J-20. The medium sized aircraft would take a range penalty.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

Liu wrote: the modified ws10 might be the alternatives engine for J20/j31. according to the deputy chief engineer of ws10 project, the new modified type of ws10 has a thrust almost equal to russia's 117s........which might be the reason why china is not as eager for the sale of su35 as russia. except 117s engine, su35 can provide nothing which interests china. BTW, according to news from Zhuhai, russia failed to market su35 to china again. no deal done.
Thats ridiculous there is no way WS-10 will fit J-31 the dimensions are too big unless they want to re design the aircraft. I think an upgraded and uprated version of RD-33 MK (engine for Mig 35) would make a lot more sense until WS-13 is ready many years from now if ever.
Last edited by member_28756 on 18 Nov 2014 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Liu »

BTW, the developement of ws13(indigenous alternative engine for Jf17/fc31) might not take china decades as ws10. after all, by developing ws10,china has finished necessory R&D infrastructures such as advanced labs and testing facilities and chinese has mastered lots of material&maching tech. chinese engineers needn't start from scrach,as they did with ws10.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

India-China joint counterterrorism training exercise in Pune

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by darshhan »

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by milanforever »

brar_w wrote:117S class thrust would most likely not be optimum for the J-31 while being pretty much perfect for the J-20. The medium sized aircraft would take a range penalty.
I'm in no way an expert, but pretty much everything I've read on internet (mostly Chinese forums) seems to be in line with this.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by milanforever »

MANNY K wrote:India-China joint counterterrorism training exercise in Pune
It's good to see the joint counterterrorism exercise held by India and China. Both countries need to work together more and prevent tragedy like 2008 Mumbai attack or bombing in Urumqi street market happening again, and save lives of innocent civilians.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Viv S »

Cross-post from Pakistan military watch thread.
______________

Airshow China 2014: Russia to supply China with more RD-93 turbofans

Nikolai Novichkov, Zhuhai, China - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
17 November 2014

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An RD-93 engine at Airshow China 2014. Source: Nikolai Novichkov


Russia is to supply China with an additional batch of 100 Klimov RD-93 turbofan engines for the FC-1/JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft before the end of 2016, officials said at Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai.

The contract, signed between Rosoboronexport and Chinese officials, follows an original USD238 million contract for 100 engines concluded in 2005 and completed in 2010.

A joint venture between China and Pakistan, the JF-17 is currently only in Pakistan Air Force service.

The first contract for 100 RD-93s had an option for 400 more, which will be produced by Moscow-based machine-building plant Chernyshev, a division of the United Engines Corporation (UEC).

At Airshow China a high-ranking official in the Russian deputation confirmed that the fifth-generation Shenyang J-31/FC-31 is also equipped with the RD-93.

A UEC official also told IHS Jane's that the Russian company and the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) had signed an agreement to upgrade the RD-93. The agreement "comprises consecutive modernisation of the propulsion system in the area of increasing thrust and the arranging of the turbofans shipments to China", said the UEC official.

He did not specify when China would start to receive the upgraded RD-93. Under UEC's existing contract with CATIC the Russian company is to perform deliveries, designer supervision, maintenance, refurbishment, and assistance in organising the RD-93 overhaul for basic and export FC-1/JF-17 fighters.

Janes
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by nachiket »

^^Don't know what to make of the above news. It either means the PLAAF/PLAN has plans to induct the J-31 in the current config with RD-93 engines (unlikely) or, the pakis are getting 100 more JF-17s. Bad news from IAF's standpoint in either case, since our induction plans seem stuck in limbo.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Liu »

nachiket wrote:^^Don't know what to make of the above news. It either means the PLAAF/PLAN has plans to induct the J-31 in the current config with RD-93 engines (unlikely) or, the pakis are getting 100 more JF-17s. Bad news from IAF's standpoint in either case, since our induction plans seem stuck in limbo.

1.China is developing the alternative engines to RD93 and al31,which are ws13 and ws10 ,while developing WS15, the ultimate engine for J20.

CHina's effort to develop ws10 has rewarded some fruits,while J11,J10b and J15 has used ws10 engines.

2. WS13 is advancing quite smoothly, because the R&D team of WS13 project has much better the R&D infrastructure and much more experience than that of WS10 had.

of course, because WS13 project started much later than WS10, the fruit of WS13 project will come later surely,

3. PLA still have not ordered J31,while PLA accepts J20 as its spearblade in the future.

4.J31 can not be accepted by PLA ,as long as its engine still depend on the import from RUssia.
Last edited by Liu on 20 Nov 2014 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Singha »

most likely PAF hopes of getting another 72 F-16 is not panning out and they want JF-17 mk2 in a good number.

plus an a/c goes through multiple engines in its life and the ratio of engines:ac need to be good to maintain operational tempo. IDF had pioneered a method during 6 day war wherein engines were entirely pulled out of planes for any minor issue and repaired offline and fresh engines plugged in to put the fighter back in the air. ofcourse plans like Sea harrier than need to be half dismantled for engine change cannot support this.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by milanforever »

Liu wrote:
nachiket wrote:^^Don't know what to make of the above news. It either means the PLAAF/PLAN has plans to induct the J-31 in the current config with RD-93 engines (unlikely) or, the pakis are getting 100 more JF-17s. Bad news from IAF's standpoint in either case, since our induction plans seem stuck in limbo.

1.China is developing the alternative engines to RD93 and al31,which are ws13 and ws10 ,while developing WS15, the ultimate engine for J20.

CHina's effort to develop ws10 has rewarded some fruits,while J11,J10b and J15 has used ws10 engines.

2. WS13 is advancing quite smoothly, because the R&D team of WS13 project has much better the R&D infrastructure and much more experience than that of WS10 had.

of course, because WS13 project started much later than WS10, the fruit of WS13 project will come later surely,

3. PLA still have not ordered J31,while PLA accepts J20 as its spearblade in the future.

4.J31 can not be accepted by PLA ,as long as its engine still depend on the import from RUssia.
It seems to me that on Chinese forums most posters don't rate SAC as highly as CAC. And J-31 isn't highly regarded compared to J-20 among Chinese aviation enthusiasts. Probably the poor track record of SAC such as quality issue, their attitude of fixing the issues etc doesn't bring people enough confidence. Hopefully they can make a better reputation in future.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Viv S »

Cross post

____________

China, Russia step up ties to face U.S. pivot

Atul Aneja
BEIJING, November 20, 2014

China and Russia are swiftly reinforcing their military ties to counter the “Asia Pivot” of the United States, widely seen as a military doctrine in the Asia-Pacific to contain Beijing’s growing international stature.

Russia’s Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, during a visit to the Chinese capital, minced no words on Wednesday in his assertion that Beijing and Moscow have “expressed concern about the U.S. attempts to strengthen its military and political influence in the Asia-Pacific region”.

Under the framework of its “Asia Pivot,” Washington is strengthening its military presence along China’s periphery through fresh deployments chiefly in Japan, South Korea, Australia and the Philippines.

Joint exercise

Russia and China will hold joint military exercises in the Pacific Ocean next year, closer to the Chinese mainland and in the Mediterranean Sea, Mr. Shoigu said.

Analysts say that the manoeuvres in the Mediterranean will reinforce Beijing and Moscow’s common understanding not to permit U.S.-led “regime change” in countries such as Syria and Lebanon.

Mr. Shoigu also asserted in Beijing, the headquarters of the Shanghai Cooperative Organisation (SCO), that Russia and China visualise establishing a collective security force in the region.

Both countries, emerging as the core defenders of Eurasia, are acutely concerned about the escalating threat of terrorism radiating from Afghanistan, which is likely to experience a military power vacuum following the bulk troop withdrawal of NATO forces from Kabul.

Beijing and Moscow see counter-terrorism cooperation by the SCO countries, which include Central Asia, as part of the solution.

In an address last week, former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev warned that growing tensions over Ukraine are threatening a new Cold War between Russia and the West.

Russia on Wednesday also came out in stout defence of China in its handling of the situation in Hong Kong. Russian media quoted Deputy Defence Minister, Anatoly Antonov as saying: “We have taken note of the events that recently took place in Hong Kong and the two Ministers acknowledged that not a single country can feel insured against colour revolutions.”

The Hindu
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by VijayN »

Thought this was apt to post here


China And Russia Team Up To Build World's Largest, Most Powerful Chopper

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/china- ... 1661471905

With the new found love, more platforms to come I guess!!
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

Origin of China’s Latest Cruise Missile Debated
What makes the CX-1 unusual is its close resemblance to another missile that is well-known to the rest of the world: the joint Indian-Russian project, the BrahMos. The uncanny similarity of the two missiles has led several commentators to suggest that the technology and design of the NPO Mashinostroyeniya Yakhont missiles that the BrahMos is based on might have been sold to the PRC as well.

Wang Hongpo, designer of the CX-1, told a popular Chinese news outlet that the missile has a range of 280 kilometers, can attain speeds up to of Mach 3 at 17,000 meters and is designed—like many other Chinese missiles in this classto attack large naval vessels. According to Wang, the closing flight profile is that the missile descends to 10 meters when it is within 10 kilometers of its target.

Wang acknowledged the speculation that CASIC had stolen the technology of the BrahMos missile when designing CX-1. But he claimed that his missile only superficially resembles the joint Indian-Russian program. The wing, guidance vanes and jet vanes of the CX-1 are completely different from the design of the BrahMos.

Russia industry officials at the Zhuhai show stated: “If you look closely at this model you can see these and other differences, and these are the type of design changes that you would not make if all you were doing wascopying the BrahMos.”

For their part, Indian military sources that examined photos and other data of the CX-1 explained that the BrahMos missile has a significantly smaller front end and that “its air intake is very different.” Also, according to same Indian source, “it appears from these photos that Chinese missile also has a different engine and that this is not the identical ramjet motor that is installed in the BrahMos.”

Other specialists have also pointed out that this design, while it superficially resembles the BrahMos, appears to have been influenced by the design of other Russian anti-ship missiles that have been acquired by Beijing, such as the Raduga 3M80 Moskit (SS-N-22 Sunburn), which can be found on the Russian ar Sovremenniy-class destroyers that China purchased from Moscow.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

In Zhuhai, the Chinese also shed some light on a planned widebody airliner development, provisionally dubbed the C929. Comac would develop the airplane through a joint venture with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). Early specifications include a maximum takeoff weight of between 250 and 300 metric tons (550,000 to 660,000 pounds) and plans call for three versions carrying between 280 and 350 passengers with a range of up to 6,500 nm. Approximately 50 percent of the airframe would consists of composite materials.

“The discussions and assessments of the business case, industrial potential, technology transfer, et cetera, are ongoing at this point,” UAC chief executive Mikhail Pogosyan told journalists during Airshow China, but how the partners would structure the joint venture remains a big question. “I don't think the Russia-China alliance will work in the long run,” said an executive with a Western supplier, speaking on condition of anonymity. In his view, the Russian industry cannot offer its prospective partner enough in the way of production efficiency. Nonetheless, in theory, the partners would base the joint venture in China, leaving UAC responsible for the design and production of the wings and Comac and Avic the fuselage in Shanghai, where the C919 now undergoes assembly.

A Western company would provide the C929’s 80,000-pound-thrust engines. During a presentation in Zhuhai, Comac indicated that it can produce approximately 1,000 C929s and achieve a first flight in 2021 ahead of certification in 2025.
Yeah how convenient that is, Russia provides the tech and China walks away with the production and the knowledge. They don't even have to bother stealing it anymore the Russian will just give it away.
Last edited by member_28756 on 23 Nov 2014 11:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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http://www.janes.com/article/45852/airs ... -turbofans


Looks like Russia will upgrade the RD 93 engine for China "increased thrust and modernization".


Airshow China 2014: Russia to supply China with more RD-93 turbofans
Nikolai Novichkov, Zhuhai, China - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
.........

A UEC official also told IHS Jane's that the Russian company and the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) had signed an agreement to upgrade the RD-93. The agreement "comprises consecutive modernisation of the propulsion system in the area of increasing thrust and the arranging of the turbofans shipments to China", said the UEC official.

He did not specify when China would start to receive the upgraded RD-93. Under UEC's existing contract with CATIC the Russian company is to perform deliveries, designer supervision, maintenance, refurbishment, and assistance in organising the RD-93 overhaul for basic and export FC-1/JF-17 fighters
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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MANNY K wrote:
In Zhuhai, the Chinese also shed some light on a planned widebody airliner development, provisionally dubbed the C929. Comac would develop the airplane through a joint venture with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). Early specifications include a maximum takeoff weight of between 250 and 300 metric tons (550,000 to 660,000 pounds) and plans call for three versions carrying between 280 and 350 passengers with a range of up to 6,500 nm. Approximately 50 percent of the airframe would consists of composite materials.
“The discussions and assessments of the business case, industrial potential, technology transfer, et cetera, are ongoing at this point,” UAC chief executive Mikhail Pogosyan told journalists during Airshow China, but how the partners would structure the joint venture remains a big question. “I don't think the Russia-China alliance will work in the long run,” said an executive with a Western supplier, speaking on condition of anonymity. In his view, the Russian industry cannot offer its prospective partner enough in the way of production efficiency. Nonetheless, in theory, the partners would base the joint venture in China, leaving UAC responsible for the design and production of the wings and Comac and Avic the fuselage in Shanghai, where the C919 now undergoes assembly.
A Western company would provide the C929’s 80,000-pound-thrust engines. During a presentation in Zhuhai, Comac indicated that it can produce approximately 1,000 C929s and achieve a first flight in 2021 ahead of certification in 2025.
Yeah how convenient that is Russia provides the tech and China walks away with the production and the knowledge. They don't even have to bother stealing it anymore the Russian will just give it away.
for civilian aircraft industry, the most precious is not the tech,but the available market demand as the baseland.. AIR BUS can make EU as its baseland while Boring has north America as its baseland. since soviet collasped, russia civilian aircraft has lost its traditional market baseland(east bloc),thus declined. china is the only available market which has purchasepower that can match Usa and Eu. it mean that any investment civilian aircraft project can a get assured repay ,if china opens its matket.
Last edited by Liu on 23 Nov 2014 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

MANNY K wrote:Yeah how convenient that is, Russia provides the tech and China walks away with the production and the knowledge. They don't even have to bother stealing it anymore the Russian will just give it away.
The Chinese already makes A-320 in China , so they already have manufacturing tech and production standards that meets European standards also Airbus have a huge business with them

http://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide ... -in-china/
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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Austin wrote:
MANNY K wrote:Yeah how convenient that is, Russia provides the tech and China walks away with the production and the knowledge. They don't even have to bother stealing it anymore the Russian will just give it away.
The Chinese already makes A-320 in China , so they already have manufacturing tech and production standards that meets European standards also Airbus have a huge business with them

http://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide ... -in-china/
Dude there is a difference between Wide body and narrow body. The Chinese have so far built narrow body they have never built wide body before and Russia has...
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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MANNY K wrote:Dude there is a difference between Wide body and narrow body. The Chinese have so far built narrow body they have never built wide body before and Russia has...
They never built a narrow body before building one from Airbus and they have strategic relation with Airbus that they themself say on their page.

And European standards of manuf are second to none in business , so for chinese it wont be a new experience.

I am sure if Airbus offered Manuf widebody A-350 in China the chinese would love to do that too , you never know they might as well as Chinese Wide Body req are one of the largest in the world in coming year

Boeing predicts China will need 6,000 more aircraft by 2034


http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... +2034.html

The long-haul growth is expected to result in demand for an additional 1,480 new fuel-efficient wide body aircraft, such as the 777, 787 Dreamliner and 747-8 Intercontinental, according to the US manufacturer.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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Austin wrote:
MANNY K wrote:Dude there is a difference between Wide body and narrow body. The Chinese have so far built narrow body they have never built wide body before and Russia has...
They never built a narrow body before building one from Airbus and they have strategic relation with Airbus that they themself say on their page.

And European standards of manuf are second to none in business , so for chinese it wont be a new experience.

I am sure if Airbus offered Manuf widebody A-350 in China the chinese would love to do that too , you never know they might as well as Chinese Wide Body req are one of the largest in the world in coming year

Boeing predicts China will need 6,000 more aircraft by 2034


http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... +2034.html

The long-haul growth is expected to result in demand for an additional 1,480 new fuel-efficient wide body aircraft, such as the 777, 787 Dreamliner and 747-8 Intercontinental, according to the US manufacturer.
Yeah and they want to built some of those domestically looks like they will go with the Russian route on the wide body plane - C929 its between a 767 / 777 class and if they only built Airbus planes then they are not making their own domestic brand which they can market to the world.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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Austin wrote:
MANNY K wrote:Dude there is a difference between Wide body and narrow body. The Chinese have so far built narrow body they have never built wide body before and Russia has...
They never built a narrow body before building one from Airbus and they have strategic relation with Airbus that they themself say on their page.

And European standards of manuf are second to none in business , so for chinese it wont be a new experience.

I am sure if Airbus offered Manuf widebody A-350 in China the chinese would love to do that too , you never know they might as well as Chinese Wide Body req are one of the largest in the world in coming year
.
Oh btw, the Airbus 320 which they are making domestically is a narrow body. Chinese don't make a wide body for Airbus and no sign yet Airbus will make an offer to manufacture A 350 domestically for them but I am sure they benefited tremendously from airbus tech.
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