Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Feb 2011 19:51

SSridhar wrote:
PS: TFT has become a free site.

Sridhar I must express my gratitude to you for having helped a person like me keep in touch with what was under the niqab all these days.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Feb 2011 20:09

Great news for Pakistani Kirket fans:
1. 5 yr ban for Md Aamir
2. 7 yr ban for Md Asif
3. 10 yr ban for Salman Butt

AoA

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 05 Feb 2011 20:19

Gagan wrote:Great news for Pakistani Kirket fans:
1. 5 yr ban for Md Aamir
2. 7 yr ban for Md Asif
3. 10 yr ban for Salman Butt

AoA

WTF? why not life bans, particularly for fomo Salmonella Butt?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Feb 2011 20:27

Mahendra wrote:fomo Salmonella Butt?

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 05 Feb 2011 20:28

India lacks courage to unearth role of Hindu extremists: Pak

On the eve of Foreign Secretary-level talks in Thimphu, Pakistan today came out with a provocative statement saying that India's handling of the Samjhauta Express train bombing case showed that it lacked "courage to unearth culpability of Hindu extremists".

"India seems to be lacking courage to unearth culpability of Hindu extremists and their links with some Indian Army personnel," Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said in a statement that may not go down well with New Delhi.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Feb 2011 21:06

^^ Sadly am not in a position to laugh and type "I told you so" for the above news article (of "Pak accusing India of not acting on Saffron terror") since i too am a citizen of the country of which mockery is being made...

The INC cheap politics for votes is now coming back with full force to ht us. MMS sure has left a unforgettable legacy in this regard for future governments to bear!!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Feb 2011 21:17

Brad Goodman wrote:India lacks courage to unearth role of Hindu extremists: Pak

On the eve of Foreign Secretary-level talks in Thimphu, Pakistan today came out with a provocative statement saying that India's handling of the Samjhauta Express train bombing case showed that it lacked "courage to unearth culpability of Hindu extremists".

"India seems to be lacking courage to unearth culpability of Hindu extremists and their links with some Indian Army personnel," Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said in a statement that may not go down well with New Delhi.

This is part of the role playing and image building
The superior complex is a mfg one and they are trying face a nation who they are paranoid.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 05 Feb 2011 21:24

I think everything is going to plan, I'm sure the INC Gobarmint will go out of their way to prove the statement of the Pakistani terrorist ministry spokesperson wrong. An example will be made of the chaperone terrorists.
Personally I don't even think that the Pawkis will get a strong worded rebuttal for their statement, perhaps they are being allowed to make a few H&D enhancing statements as Jiziya for letting the World Cup be held without any Pacquistani sponsored fireworks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Feb 2011 21:27

TFT might be capturing IP addresses of visitors and will get you later just like those dictaros who allow protests to unmask their detractors.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Feb 2011 21:53

FYI, TFT was always available if you simply disabled javascript in your browser.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 05 Feb 2011 21:56

GuruPrabhu wrote:On a recent trip to India, I met with senior Mr. Varadrajan, father of Tinku and Siddharth, the two journalist sons that he has produced, a fascinating gentleman, an aging IAS type.

I got to inquire about the varying styles of the two sons in their writing. There were some interesting snippets -- my own take is that we are too harsh on journalists. Take Siddharth for example. He may not have the line that is congruent with BRF, but then, he is pursuing a line that follows an agenda favored by a section of Indian politics. Condemning him outright is not very sophisticated, IMO. We need to be more accepting of the fact that not everyone thinks like us. Regards.

SV is very well connected, probably to someone in the PMO. Many of his articles in The Hindu later became reality. He is being used(or rather cooperating) with some in the GOI to test the waters before somethings become policy. Even his current piece of track-II is for setting stage for more the Thimpu talks. His connections with the powers that be are what made him part of track-II diplomacy.

One condemns a person for the type of thinking that they do. It is not secret that many in the GOI are willing to go more than half way to meet the pakis, whatever that means. In a way, the fall of musharaff was good, as who knows what the GOI had agreed to in its "dissolving borders" policy.

I condemn both SV and the political class who share his views equally. While each one can have their own view, and this is guaranteed in the democracy, they cannot follow policy which hurts and kills Indian citizens, and/or gives away/shares our Indian land. That is against the constitution.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 05 Feb 2011 22:48

We need to be more accepting of the fact that not everyone thinks like us. Regards.

Who said we don't accept this fact? Besides who is "us"? Clearly, you don't agree with me even though we are on the same forum.

We very much accept the fact that some people are amenable to compromising with terrorists, whether out of political compulsions or sheer ideological foolishness. And we try to change that.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 05 Feb 2011 23:00

jamwal wrote:What is sachi sawitri ? If she can't be sachi , it means she is jhoothi .

As a RAPE once said on BRF: "Satyame Vijayate".

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 05 Feb 2011 23:45

Tamang wrote:"Kasam hai uss dharti ki jisse main apni maang bharti hoon"

Wow! Mediterranean descent, eh? A performance worthy of the Golden Raspberry Awards. Also, note "God Bless Republic of Packistan" towards the end of the rant. She needs to live in "Packistan" for a couple of months. I was trying to place her accent until I took a cab ride in midtown Manhattan yesterday. She has the accent of a pakjabi cab driver who moved over to the US in the nineties after years of working in middle-management in the middle-east.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Feb 2011 23:46

Brad Goodman wrote:India lacks courage to unearth role of Hindu extremists: Pak

On the eve of Foreign Secretary-level talks in Thimphu, Pakistan today came out with a provocative statement saying that India's handling of the Samjhauta Express train bombing case showed that it lacked "courage to unearth culpability of Hindu extremists".

"India seems to be lacking courage to unearth culpability of Hindu extremists and their links with some Indian Army personnel," Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said in a statement that may not go down well with New Delhi.

If there was even a hint of Chanakyan-ness in India's strategy of bringing in "Hindu terror" as a way to force TSP to confront the real pigLeT terror it sponsors against India, TSP has only shown that it is too smart to fall prey to such useless, cowardly tactics from the Dhothiwallahs in Delhi. And true to form, TSP siezed the gauntlet with both hands and struck it out of the stadium for a mighty six. (Reality of course is that this bringing in "Hindu terror" is a malicious, deliberate strategy on the part of MMS/Sonia and their lap-dogs to sully, insult, and humiliate Hindus and the nation at large in their larger game plan of weakening India and sucking up to US & TSP).

But even assuming that there was a Chanakyan motive in this, clearly those who articulated this "Hindu terror" sham have shown that they are also stupid to the core. Anyone with even a room temperature IQ and understands TSP motives knows that the last thing TSP is interested in is a cessation of terror on "both sides". Reason being that so called "Hindu terror" is not biting TSP one bit, least of all Kiyani & Co. Matter of fact, Kiyani feels infinitly more discomfort when he twiddles his b@als than he does from any so called "hindu terror". What he wants is Kashmir and much more substantial stuff TSP couldn't get since 1947, and he knows that the SDRE Dhotiwallahs in Delhi are shivering in their half-pant undies at the thought of Hafeez Saeed and nukes. And the last thing he has in mind is to exchange this monstrous leverage he has over India with some puny "Hindu terror" crap.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 Feb 2011 00:28

^^^ I doubt congress had pakis or foreign policy in mind when they invented hindu terror. They are solely working towards next election where they want to get 272 seats in loksabha and have yuvraj rule us. In this calculation if foreign policy or justice for mumbai victims is now collateral damage that they can live with. Honestly how many indians are not going to vote for kangress based on their non performance for mumbai. They have already sealed minority vote bank with their action (least they feel so) and put bjp on backfoot

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 06 Feb 2011 00:44

The dude is managing director at an investment bank in Singapore. Any surprises? Need an inside man to launder/recycle those ill-gotten loot from pureland no? Typical RAPE.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Feb 2011 02:26

India, Pakistan to try new approach for breakthrough in Thimphu talks

http://www.hindu.com/2011/02/06/stories ... 870600.htm

Asked whether Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi's statement on Kashmir would overshadow the talks, the sources pointed out that such an observation was par for the course on a day observed by Islamabad as Kashmir Solidarity Day. “But how it will impact the talks we don't know,'' they added.

See? It is "par for the course". We always "walk the extra mile" to understand and even justify what Pakis do. It is not surprising that some have started accepting that Pakis have "a stake in J&K" and other Paki-lite logic.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Feb 2011 02:34

One day before the talks with the Pakis, US Vice President Biden calls PM Manmohan Singh

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 06 Feb 2011 04:14

http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/05/cables-u ... rdari.html

Cables: UK dismissive of ‘numbskull’ Zardari

LONDON: Leaked US diplomatic cables reveal that British officials initially considered Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari a ”numbskull” who would not last long in office.

In a meeting the next month recounted in a separate cable, the then-head of the British military, Air Chief Marshall Jock Stirrup, told US officials that although Zardari has ”made helpful political noises, he’s clearly a numbskull.”

But the next month a Foreign Office official, Laura Hickey, was quoted as saying Zardari had done ”surprisingly well” and the UK had underestimated him.

”While Zardari’s political lifeline was unclear, Hickey said (Britain) now assesses that he will be in office for a few more years,” the cable said. – AP

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 06:56

CRamS wrote:If there was even a hint of Chanakyan-ness in India's strategy of bringing in "Hindu terror" as a way to force TSP to confront the real pigLeT terror it sponsors against India, TSP has only shown that it is too smart to fall prey to such useless, cowardly tactics from the Dhothiwallahs in Delhi.

CRamS, I believe that the Chanakianness comes from a different angle. It is to tell those Indians who still want Pakistan to be punished for 26/11, that there is an equally Indian bunch of terrorists and the two acts have evened out. In fact, the argument may even be that 26/11 was a reprisal for the Samjhota incident. And, the frequent reference to Hindu terror is to counter the 'Islamic terror'. This helps the Indian p-sec parties in elections and their international masters to demonstrate their even-handedness to the Muslim ummah and retrieve the lost image. India is a willing scapegoat. In this region, the Americans have almost always tried to gain at Indian expense. It is the first thing that crosses their mind, it seems.

You may think I am becoming paranoid. But, these are all attempts by the sole remaining but fading-fast superpower to tell Indians that "You guys are as bad as the Pakistanis; then, why are you standing on a moral high ground and demanding justice for 26/11 before starting the talks and settling the issues ? You both are equal in all respects". The Americans are throwing everything at India and Pakistan to normalize the relations for their immediate gains.

. . . even a room temperature IQ

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Feb 2011 07:01

What gains would these be?

Is America so naive that it believes India-Pakistan relations can be normalised? With an antecedent of civilisational conflict? Perhaps they can follow America's paradigm with Cuba.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 07:07

jamwal wrote:What is sachi sawitri ? If she can't be sachi , it means she is jhoothi .

Clearly, 'Sati Savitri' was misspelled by the writer. But, the Pakis are unable to shrug away their Bharti influence even after generations. That's the point.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Feb 2011 07:26

US pressures Pakistan into returning 'diplomat' Davis

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 434325.cms

Intense pressure and heat from the United States and its allies has melted Pakistan's jingoistic tenacity to try an American national, who Washington maintains has diplomatic immunity, for the murder by shooting of two Pakistanis in Lahore.

Islamabad is now preparing grounds to return Raymond Davis, the US official, after duly absolving him in a legal process that once threatened to convict him in a trumped up response to organized political and public pressure.

The Pakistani decision follows high level diplomatic activity, including a phone call from secretary of state Hillary Clinton to President Asif Ali Zardari, to resolve the matter.

...

In an episode that involved political sparring between the federal government, which is led by Zardari's PPP, and the Punjab government, while is led by Nawaz Sharief's PML, Davis became a pawn even as an increasingly radicalized society called for his head. The lynch mobs were spurred on by political parties playing to the galleries, even as Washington and Islamabad bickered over technicalities over Davis' status and immunity issues. It turned out that while has a diplomatic passport, he was in Pakistan on a business visa. Washington insisted that the diplomatic passport provided him with immunity, but Islamabad went by the visa, a reading which was challenged by the US.

Fearing for Davis' life and other US assets amid rising tensions on the street, Washington deployed every possible resource and instrument to warn Islamabad that it was playing with fire. A Congressional delegation visiting Pakistan this week cautioned that bilateral relationship, including defense ties, would be affected if the Davis episode ended badly.

"In a meeting today with Prime Minister Gilani, a bipartisan US congressional delegation protested the continued illegal detention of the American diplomat in Lahore," a statement by the US embassy in Islamabad said on Thursday. Conveying a rare disagreement with the hosts by a visiting delegation, it the delegation called on the government of Pakistan "to abide by its obligation under international and Pakistani law to recognize his diplomatic immunity, and immediately release him."

Washington also deployed its European allies in a full court press effort. Pakistan suddenly found that tariff concessions it expected from the European Union was being delayed and the IMF was turning off the financial spigot which has kept it afloat.

In a stark reminder of the lifeline western powers had over Pakistan, Pakistani papers carried identical stories on Saturday under the headline "Fanaticism could lead to grants' suspension," saying "European Union and other Western countries have called for linking the foreign aid given to Pakistan with its anti-extremism measures."

The effort was followed up Clinton's phone call to Zardari, who is already under intense scrutiny in Pakistan following speculative stories in the local media about his alleged marriage to a New York-based political activist of Pakistani origin. According to the story, which has been vehemently denied by his aides and the person concerned, Zardari married Dr Tanvir Zamani in a secret ceremony and has requested US authorities for security for her.

...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Feb 2011 07:36

UK Muslim problem kids sent to PoK schools

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/UK-Mu ... ols/746609

British Muslims are sending their “problem children” to Islamic schools in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) where they are at risk of being recruited by terror outfit al-Qaeda, according to secret US diplomatic cables leaked by WikiLeaks.

In a communique dated July 18, 2008, Laura Hickey, a senior British official, told the Americans that “stabilising Kashmir is also important for UK domestic security reasons,” the whistle-blower website said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 08:20

abhishek_sharma wrote:UK Muslim problem kids sent to PoK schools
. . . “stabilising Kashmir is also important for UK domestic security reasons,”

How is 'stabilizing Kashmir" {whatever that means} going to stop UK Pakistani children from being sent to madrasseh ? I doubt the veracity of the report in so far as the children are being sent only to PoK-based madrasseh. May be some Mirpuris are sending their 'problem children' {whatever that means} to PoK. But, the rest are being sent to Karachi, Peshawar, Lahore, FATA etc. This demands "stabilizing Pakistan as a whole" and "stabilizing the parents in the UK who are willingly sending their children to jihad under the disguise of them being problem children". The British are trying to create an impression that Kashmir is the root cause of all security issues and thus reinforce US position as to why India & Pakistan must settle this dispute.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Feb 2011 08:24

SSridhar wrote:CRamS, I believe that the Chanakianness comes from a different angle. It is to tell those Indians who still want Pakistan to be punished for 26/11, that there is an equally Indian bunch of terrorists and the two acts have evened out. In fact, the argument may even be that 26/11 was a reprisal for the Samjhota incident. And, the frequent reference to Hindu terror is to counter the 'Islamic terror'. This helps the Indian p-sec parties in elections and their international masters to demonstrate their even-handedness to the Muslim ummah and retrieve the lost image. India is a willing scapegoat. In this region, the Americans have almost always tried to gain at Indian expense. It is the first thing that crosses their mind, it seems.

There clearly is a domestic component to it as Brad pointed out. With Nitish Kumar gaining the Muslim vote, this is INC way of telling the Muslims not to trust BJP, they are communalist bla bla. Furthermore, I believe it is a way to placate TSP & US to show their bogus "even handedness".

You may think I am becoming paranoid. But, these are all attempts by the sole remaining but fading-fast superpower to tell Indians that "You guys are as bad as the Pakistanis; then, why are you standing on a moral high ground and demanding justice for 26/11 before starting the talks and settling the issues ? You both are equal in all respects". The Americans are throwing everything at India and Pakistan to normalize the relations for their immediate gains.

Nothing paranoid about this. In US eyes, and indeed in western eyes, there is no difference between India & TSP. In fact, there is no difference between TSP sponsored pigLeT terror, and India's Hindu Muslim troubles. This is what TSP capitalizes on. Add to that India's RNIs and psecs, and India's woes with TSP terror gets muddled.

But what I am worried is that if MMS goes down this path, some Hindu right winger is really ging to prove that indeed there are "Hindu terrorists" and this would be really sad. Its like provoking a sleeping lion. And the last thing India needs as another Gujarat type domestic cauldron. That will truly be the ultimate victory for TSP, US, and China.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 06 Feb 2011 09:07

US pressure likely to win immunity for Davis

Apart from the pressure from Washington, what may have led the government to this decision was a message from Pakistan`s Ambassador to the US, Hussain Haqqani. He urged the government to grant immunity to Davis at the earliest. His message was sent after the State Department virtually snapped all communication with the embassy in Washington.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Feb 2011 09:15

shynee wrote:US pressure likely to win immunity for Davis
Apart from the pressure from Washington, what may have led the government to this decision was a message from Pakistan`s Ambassador to the US, Hussain Haqqani. He urged the government to grant immunity to Davis at the earliest. His message was sent after the State Department virtually snapped all communication with the embassy in Washington.

Boy have the TFTA Pakis shown once again that all their bravado comes to naught when push comes to shove

. Lots of gloating in TSP media about standing up to US has come tumbling down.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Feb 2011 09:26

To get a real change in Pakistan, the Pakistani army has to be crushed. Since that is not going to happen, what is the next best option?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Feb 2011 10:07

Ayesha Siddiqa on Pakistan's elite:
http://criticalppp.com/archives/39014

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 06 Feb 2011 11:23

There are two schools of thought - more like a chicken and egg question.

Does the Pakistani army hate India because it has to survive, hostility with India gives it the much needed reason to do what it does within pakistan.

OR

Is the Pakistani Army but a reflection of the society in Punjab. There are 60 year old gurdges from the time of partition that these people have preserved.

Defeating the Pakistani army militarily might not end Pakistan's or Pakistani punjab's hostility towards India. Military defeat might give that hatered another lifeline! Just like mushy rants about 71. These buggers will conveniently forget all the murdering and dirty tricks they indulged in, and in typical pakjabi style, oversimplify the narrative to suit their needs.

(A typical oversimplification is the "Pakistan == Muslim dominated areas of India" bullcrap and so that must translate to Kashmir == Pakistan bullshit) There are several such examples that one can find in that moderately ~~enlightened~~ educated society.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Feb 2011 11:45

Now it is not the President of the US who orders around the White House "butler",Man Mubarak Singh,but the Veep! It indicates the continuing contemptuous attitude of the US towards India,where it shackles our students like cattle,denies visas to eminent Indians, insults our celebrities and diplomats with "groping" at airports and the utter servility of the butler,masquerading as India's PM.

Pak on the eve of the talks yet again insults India,allows the perpetrators of 26/11 to vent their spleen in public against us,threatening further terror,and India's leadership under MMS weakly succumbs! The US and Pak have aqcommon gameplan,to castrate India diplomatically and militarily.The revelations that the US has betrayed Britain's nuclear secrets to the Russians is a grim warning what is in store for india if we mortgage our foreign policy to Uncle sam.

Why on earth are we talking to Pak? For what purpose?It is a massive waste of national resources to keep on meeting the verminious Paki diplomats whose chicanery and perfidy know no bounds.The manner in which MMS keeps on doing his master's bidding is utterly shameful.The man...sorry creature, has no shame or loyalty towards the nation.Pakistan needs to be punished for its acts of terror against India and not pampered as we are doing right now with these meaningless talks,where Pak hopes that the eunuchs of the MEA will sell out India's interests at the bidding of the White House.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Feb 2011 12:19

A_Gupta wrote:Ayesha Siddiqa on Pakistan's elite:
http://criticalppp.com/archives/39014

I have responded and I cross post my views here. Will post some videos to illustrate those views later:

I am certain Ms. Ayesha Siddiqa is right - but I believe that the important factor that gives the Pakistani elite an advantage is their knowledge of English - and the resultant ability of the elite to hobnob with the wealthy and powerful people of the world from the last days of the British Empire to the current day American empire.

Interestingly - one can become a wealthy business person with little English, but one cannot get very far in the Pakistani army with poor English. And the relationships that Pakistani army officers have maintained with the powerful world dominating English speaking nations of the West have played a huge role in Pakistan's history as well as the power of the elite and the Army.

The English speaking elite of the army, also known as the officer cadre, were always funded and supported by the West as "allies" and the same army projected itself as the saviour of the nation against foes like India. For the elite to survive, the army had to be with them, so the army is part of the elite. The army was also the first institution in which it was possible for an outsider without the right birth credentials, like Musharraf, to rise. To that extent the army helped to create a new "high caste" from commoners. But that would have been impossible without English and a good relationship with the west.

The power of the elite derives from the army and for the first time in Pakistan, the army is unable to interfere in what is happening in Pakistan because the very Islam that the army swears by is also what the majority of Pakistanis demand and elite or not, the army cannot afford to support the unislamic "moderation" that the elite represent.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 12:37

Gagan wrote:There are two schools of thought - more like a chicken and egg question.

Does the Pakistani army hate India because it has to survive, hostility with India gives it the much needed reason to do what it does within pakistan.
OR
Is the Pakistani Army but a reflection of the society in Punjab. There are 60 year old grudges from the time of partition that these people have preserved.

Gagan, let me give my take on this. The question you posed would be more correct had it been termed, "Which came first, PA's hatred or Pakistani society's hatred ?". Today, I would say, 'both are correct and they go hand-in-hand'. The society at large has hatred for India, and the PA exploits that. The PA is nothing but a reflection of the society and it doesn't make any efforts to immunize its rank and file from the Islamist virus; on the other hand, it encourages that against India. These two aspects are today inseparable and feed on each other in the form of terrorist tanzeems because that is where the society-at-large and the Pakistani Army meet and collaborate. That's why the hostility from Pakistan would be enduring. A mere settlement of Cashmere would not resolve the problem one bit, as we all know. For, the real change is impossible without a radical lobotomy at the societal level followed by sustained chemotherapy and radiation and a close monitoring to sustain the remission and prevent a relapse. We are talking of decades here of a project that cannot even be attempted in the first place without even more drastic structural changes in the way the people of Pakistan understand Islam.

Defeating the Pakistani army militarily might not end Pakistan's or Pakistani Punjab's hostility towards India. Military defeat might give that hatred another lifeline!

Gagan, the question of comprehensively defeating the Pakistani Army does not arise in the present circumstances. For one, the nuclear weapons and the acutely low thresholds of the Pakistani doctrine coupled with the utter recklessness of the Pakistani establishment would stop us in our tracks from escalating beyond a point. Secondly, as a status-quo power, we only react to events. But, as a revisionist power, Pakistan can initiate conflicts, get some temporary advantage as a result and expect concerned world powers to intervene before the situation turns too critical for it, as was demonstrated in Kargil. In these places, India needs a 20:1 manpower advantage to re-take possession. The nukes have changed the game for ever. Any intervention by these powers would be used for two things: one, to proclaim as a victory for mass internal consumption (India was on the verge of defeat and world powers stepped in to prevent a rout) and extract more focus from these world powers on the Kashmir issue. Such an event would also fortify the misconception and the Pakistani myth that it was after all only irredentism that is at the root of this enduring hostility and a resolution of Kashmir conflict would settle this once and for all.

Thus, the fundamental problem of why Pakistan behaves in this way will be forgotten. Or, the rest of the world has simply no interest in that. Nobody understands that it is the Islamic Pakistan's desire to rule the kafir India. The Pakistani attempts at parity, even putting everything it has at stake, singularly flow from that thought. It was what drove Iqbal and Jinnah and it is what is driving present day Pakistan too, much more violently and fanatically than ever before. As Islamists establish their de jure rule in Pakistan, when this on-going Fourth Jihad comes to a successful conclusion, India will be forced to take very hard decisions, decisions that it has been soft-pedalling. We will rue the opportunities we missed and we will suffer great pain.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Feb 2011 12:50

Check the second half of this video where Ayub Khan's clipped British accent has the reporter fawning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iPtL0jgC0o

Yahya Khan is not as good as Ayub - but this slightly clipped accent and brash confidence is still there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9cHUJBt2Sw

Musharraf - the accent has gone, but not the fluency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya86zLFxHrs

I am finding it impossible to find a Gen Kayani speech in English.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 13:07

One common, constant thread that unites all the three above videos (and I am sure the fourth one by Kiyani whenever Shiv finds that) is the 'utter lying' with a very straight face.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Feb 2011 13:26

Philip:

The fault my dear is closer to home. Who put MMS in power? Who believes that MMS actually represents them and is this great "intellectual" economist. You guessed it, the billion Indians. And they don't seem to care two hoots for all the corruption, the mafia rule, the sell out to Pakis and their puppets in the valley, the groping before London & Washington. They are euphoric with 9% growth and slum dog Oscars.

David Cameron made the comment that state-sponsored multiculturalism in UK is leading to Muslim ghettoism. Can MMS even articulate a fraction of the same phenomenon going on in J&K? And he is supposed to be the PM of India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 13:46

From today's editorial in DT

During the CEC meeting, President Zardari also paid tribute to late Governor Punjab Salmaan Taseer. {Zardari has so far not paid any public tribute to Salman Taseer} Whilst that is all well and good, one would like to remind the president that no public prosecutor is willing to take up the case and the one who was appointed is not fulfilling his duty because he has not been provided with security. {Why has he not been provided with security ? Possibly, no security personnel is willing to be assigned to the task of protecting the public prosecutor who is going to prosecute a ghazi.}

The way the JUI-F has taken advantage of the furor created over the issue of the blasphemy laws where, during a particularly fiery rally, the JUI-F chief Fazlur Rehman said that the country can live without electricity, can survive high prices and inflation but can never live with blasphemy {AoA, what piety}, shows its mentality. While no one is condoning blasphemy (real or perceived), {uh. . even 'perceived' blasphemy is not condoned ?} one must caution the maulana that the country does not need representatives who do not care about the core problems of the masses.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2011 14:04

India has to give up its side of Kashmir through talks or negotiations: Zardari

President Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday said Pakistan will not make a compromise on its stand on Kashmir and India has to give up the disputed region through negotiations or talks.

Addressing a convention at the Presidency in connection with the Kashmir Solidarity Day observed every year on February 5, the president reiterated that Pakistan was ready to talk to India on all issues including the Kashmir dispute, but the negotiations would not go ahead without the permission of the Kashmiris.

“Kashmiris will be victorious one day,” he said, adding that Pakistan will not take a step back on the Kashmir issue.

He said the new generation should know that the Kashmiris have been giving unprecedented sacrifices for the past 60 years for their freedom and the stand of the Kashmiris was based on the UN resolutions.

The message for the new generation is that it is not their history to retreat from a viewpoint, the president added.

The president said Pakistan wants friendship with all its neighbours including India, but the ties should be based on equality and principles.

He assured that the Kashmir issue would be settled with India on the table of talks, as the use of violence is reflective of a defeatist mindset.

“Strength and victory of the Kashmiris lie in a democratic way and dialogue,” he remarked.

He said Zulfaqar Ali Bhutto founded Pakistan People’s Party after a disagreement with Ayub Khan on the Kashmir issue. He made the Kashmiris aware of their rights and Benazir Bhutto raised the issue at forums like the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC), he said.