Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 Dec 2013 21:38

if that is for per day it comes to 4,50,000 per month , per house in indian rupees

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 30 Dec 2013 21:49

^^^
That's 237 INR per month.

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 30 Dec 2013 21:59

abhik wrote:^^^
That's 237 INR per month.

Yup!!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2013 22:23

chetak wrote:
Its 700 Lts per day, Sirjee. 20 KL per month onlee

what happened to remaining 1KL??

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 30 Dec 2013 22:28

chaanakya wrote:
what happened to remaining 1KL??

Its 670 ptrs per household per day

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2013 22:33

No AK said 700 LPD. That is 21KLPD.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2013 22:33

what is the requirement per family of 4 (or the dilli family average number of persons) water consumption? I don't think even in amrikka one need 700 ltrs of water per day.

let us say: per person: 1 liter to drink, 5 liters to cook, 50 liters for bathing, 50 liters for washing... this is like paradise living.. btw.

so worst case is 106 liters of water per person day. now what kujli is making is 7 times the scam.

imho, free water itself a scam to the nation. looting the tax is a crime.

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 30 Dec 2013 22:39

It costs Municipal authorities about Rs 20/KL delivered at the tap in Mumbai. This includes costs of water treatment, pumping, water towers and pipeline maintenance and administration costs. Most Mumbai Domestic consumers (South Mumbai types) get subsidized rates of Rs 3.5/KL and industrial users are charged of the order of Rs 30-40/KL in order to pay for the subsidies rest is bridged by tax payer monies. Sewage treatment costs another Rs 5-8/KL at the treatment plant excluding the cost of sewerage pipelines.

Capital costs may be part of this cost Rs 20/KL calculation since the Data from Delhi seems to suggest that the cost of water at the tap is 240/20 - Rs 12/KL. Others in the know may want to add/amend this data.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2013 22:41

robbing paul and paying peter is crime against paul.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Dec 2013 22:45

Time to rename this the Arvind Kejriwal thread then ?

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 30 Dec 2013 22:50

AAP should be asked to allocate water based on size of family and not decree the same amount for every household. Richer and educated folks in Delhi have 4 or less members living in a house but the poorer Jhuggi dwellers have more members living in a single household. Thus there will be less free water per person from the 700 ltr allocation. This amount is not enough and is skewed in favor of the rich and the middle classes.

AAP must be pressured to increase the allocation of free water for the poor and ones with larger families. Every citizen of Delhi has a right to expect the equal amount of subsidized water and the subsidy cannot be determined based on a family's economic status. Will MSM and NGO do gooders ask AAP to frame equitable policy. We need to make sure these newly elected politicians do not favor just the higher and middle classes and ignore the large masses of the lower classes.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2013 22:50

well said... we get easily drifted. an aap thread is needed?

arindam · Post by **arindam** » 30 Dec 2013 22:51

deleted aap stuff.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2013 22:52

guys.. stop! heed to suraj call.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 30 Dec 2013 22:52

RajeshA wrote:
Now people would get 20 kilo liters of free water per month from Delhi Jal Board, and buy any additional water from the tanker mafia, so that they don't have to pay for the free 20 kilo liters of water.

So more money would now flow to the tanker mafia who would then share the booty with AAP and Kejriwal! Everybody happy. Delhi Jal Board finished after a while, more likely like after 3 months.

come on guys, please use ur brains first before writing anything. I am a pro BJP/RSS. Do u have an idea of what amount is 20KL would be?? a bucket would be 20 litres, so 1000 buckets of water for whole month, would be more than enough for a middle class family or 4-6 people.
when the water is enough for middle class people, lower middle class and poor people, the question of water mafia only exists for upper class folks.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Dec 2013 22:55

No more political threads. In fact it seems useless to have two threads on politics because no one can distinguish the two anymore. Everyone posts wherever it suits them, with no regard for the thread topic. Might as well consider merging them both into a single one and rename it the "NaMo is a zerrow, AK is a herrow" thread.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 30 Dec 2013 22:55

Sagar G wrote:Question to economic gurus - How much 20,000 Ltr. of free water is going to cost the exchequer ??? Rough estimate......

350 crore / year as per AAP's own estimate and 3500 crores for electricity.

Note:Info gained from TV talk shows.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 30 Dec 2013 22:59

chaanakya wrote:No AK said 700 LPD. That is 21KLPD.

Well, the tweet world is asking him exactly that? Why the difference of 30 ltrs/day from the promised 700.

I think thats when he got his looses..as he proudly and publicly proclaimed on Twitter. And blamed God too for it.

Sorry. OT.

arindam · Post by **arindam** » 30 Dec 2013 23:04

For the mods. Please decide and give us one thread.

(a humble request)

arindam wrote:
On a different note, may be it's only me, but it is becoming difficult to track the statewide election and NaMo vs dynasty thread because of the constant assault of kalasnikhov phenomenon in both the threads simultaneously.

Singha wrote:As a matter of admin convenience pls take aap issues to the elections thread and leave this thread to namo and dynasty only.
else same type of talk why have two threads.

RajeshA wrote:
Singha saar,

when this thread was started there were only two contrasting ideas of India. Now there are ostensibly three. So I would suggest that beside Dynasty and Modi, one includes AAP too in this thread. Anyway Dynasty is not really offering much of an ideological opposition to Modi.

Of course discussion about AAP like that of any other party w.r.t. elections and their chances in it, should be discussed in the Elections thread.

JMTs.

Singha wrote:ok RajeshA, it was just a suggestion for better focus , not a diktat. what you say makes sense. purely electoral AAP issues can be taken to the other thread, while CT/gossip/andar ki baat here.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 30 Dec 2013 23:15

Please don't confuse us folks. All NaMo stuff in NaMo thread. Elections, issues, local issues, etc in Election thread. AAP stuff goes to election thread and now AAP stuff is really boring

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 30 Dec 2013 23:18

Only NaMo posts pleeeeeezeeeee

arindam · Post by **arindam** » 30 Dec 2013 23:19

^^ ++1 NaMo stuff in NaMo thread and rest in election thread makes sense.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 30 Dec 2013 23:26

ashashi wrote:AAP is to the left of the commies.

Wait till AAP presents 2014-2015 budget in March. These public give-away schemes have to be funded in the next budget. Expect significant tax increases. BJP can make an argument that AAP ruined Delhi budget in a 3 short months, what will it do to the country.

And this 700 liter/month free water is a joke. For a family of 5, it amounts less than 4 liters per day per person. That is just enough for drinking and cooking. What about bathing?

As I understand it, people will have to pay for all the water consumed if they use more than 700 liters per month. This leads to poor families saving even more water and consuming less an 700 liters per month.

its 20KL /month or 666 litre/connection.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 30 Dec 2013 23:29

rajsunder wrote:350 crore / year as per AAP's own estimate and 3500 crores for electricity.

Note:Info gained from TV talk shows.

ashashi wrote:According to this the water tarrif in Delhi for 20Kiloliters is:

Service Charge: $121.00
Volumetric Charge: $3.63 * 20 = $72.60
Sewage Charge: $72.6 * .6 = $43.56

Total: $237.16 / household

RajeshA wrote:Saw a tweet 4m @ThinkersPad, it was a subsidy of Rs 1660 crores.

Thank you for coming up with some numbers, so all in all it's a big amount. From where does the PAAP geniuses plan to make up for the loss ???

My last post regarding PAAP on this thread.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 30 Dec 2013 23:30

krishnan wrote:it requires 750 ltrs for bath alone, how is 700 ltrs enough for everything

750/bath???
Are u talking about bath in a jacuzzi?? A house hold bucket holds 20 liters, even if a person takes 2 buckets of water for bathing and 6/household, then the total would be 240 liters only.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 30 Dec 2013 23:39

please use the other thread even of last posts. No offence to anyone just organizing ourselves.

As the year is winding up here are some reflections from NaMo's blog.

http://www.narendramodi.in/newsletter/nl_261213.html

Pretty well compiled. We really never had such a politician who is such a detail oriented.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 30 Dec 2013 23:51

A photo from Modi's blog that I found very phunny

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 31 Dec 2013 00:39

Full Court Press is on.
HT headline: How AAP kept its electoral Promise.
TimesNow: Even if AAP implements 50% of its promise it would be great.

RM was right about the system now backing AAP.

Feel sick to see so many people just going ape-shit about AAP. The D4 will hurt NaMo a lot more than I could imagine.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 31 Dec 2013 00:41

Tweet this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf7GV1eYe1o

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 31 Dec 2013 00:49

Why not have a separate AAP thread? There is sufficient interest in this phenomenon? This can remain the NaMo thread.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 31 Dec 2013 00:51

Agree. Something along the lines of. AAP the new face of the Congress-Left Mafia vs Modi

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 Dec 2013 00:52

No More Politics Threads.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 31 Dec 2013 02:25

krishnan wrote:
3) 700 liter free water. ???
100+ crore loss to govt every day, and the guy who raised the issue has been booted

you sure? kejripAAP says 160crore per annum

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 31 Dec 2013 03:10

Shonu wrote: you sure? kejripAAP says 160crore per annum

If giving away it all free costs 160 cr per year, how is JLB making 600 crore profit. It should cost at least 600 crore+water sourcing/transport cost+salaries+pensions.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 31 Dec 2013 03:21

we have a thread to discuss elections, analysis and results. Why we need another thread or why we need to pollute NaMo thread. A lot more from NaMo are coming in the coming days and weeks. AAP is a distraction and the entire world is falling for it. Nothing wrong at all to discuss AAP stuff and let us do it in election thread.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 31 Dec 2013 04:09

Published on Dec 31, 2013
By Sanjay K. Jha
Manmohan’s will-he moment: The Telegraph

New Delhi, Dec. 30: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is said to be weighing the several pros and as many cons of stepping aside months before the Lok Sabha polls to facilitate Rahul Gandhi’s formal anointment at the top, according to sources. But others cautioned that the situation was still unfolding and can take a turn in any direction.

The Prime Minister could announce at a media conference early in the new year the less-unexpected decision of not seeking a third term but the big question is if he would make way before the elections.

It was more or less certain in the past two years that Singh would not be projected as the leader or even a part of the triumvirate (alongside Sonia Gandhi and Rahul) as he was in the run-up to the 2009 polls.

But opinion is sharply divided within the Congress on whether Rahul should replace Singh at the fag end of UPA II’s five-year term when the government and the party have become deeply unpopular or whether he should only be projected as the future Prime Minister in the unlikely event of the UPA returning to power for a third term.

Those ridiculing the idea of a change of guard at the eleventh hour cite the following points:

No point in Rahul hitching his stricken wagon to the cursed stars of UPA II.

The only takeaway from such a grafting will be the stained baggage of the scandals that marked the better part of the UPA’s second term.

A takeover now could be construed as a palace coup and an admission that Singh was a failure.

But those sensing that something is cooking list the “advantages” as they see them.

If Rahul takes charge when the going is the toughest, he can be projected as a leader who does not run away from unpleasant tasks. Perceived indecisiveness has been one of the biggest criticisms against the Singh government.

Manmohan has nothing to lose now. He has stuck by the government through thick and thin and during its worst moments. He could have easily jumped on to a moral high horse and quit long ago. Instead, he has effectively finished the assignment, can step aside gracefully now and mentor Rahul.

The immediate gain from such a handover will be a booster shot for the sagging morale of the party rank and file without whom the election cannot be fought. Even if the Congress loses the election, the prefix of “former Prime Minister” will be valuable to assert control over the party while sitting in the Opposition.

The Prime Minister, who had in the past kept the option of a third term open, is learnt to have conveyed to Sonia that he wants to be relieved. Whether Sonia will allow him to do so with a handful of months remaining for the second term to be over is the unknown factor that is playing on the minds of the very few people who think some big announcements are round the corner.

With the Congress rank and file clamouring for Rahul to be unambiguously declared the sole leader ahead of the polls, a formal decision is expected at the AICC session on January 17. But Singh may give a clear indication of the road map at his media conference expected to be held in the first week of January.

There are differences over the timing of Rahul’s anointment, but the party is unanimous that there should be no ambiguity over its candidate for Prime Minister this time round. The Congress has always claimed that it chooses the leader of its government (at the state level and at the Centre) after the elections and does not normally project a candidate before the polls.

But with the general election becoming increasingly presidential in nature, there is a growing realisation that the projection of a leader well in advance is essential.

This is even more unavoidable at the national level in the light of the Narendra Modi-centred campaign launched by the BJP. Without mentioning the Modi factor, P. Chidambaram today reflected the view of most in the Congress when he said the leader should be announced in advance.

“In my view, the party (Congress) should project a person as the leader of the party who will become Prime Minister if the party forms the government. That is my view, but it is for the party to decide,” PTI quoted Chidambaram as telling a television channel.

One reason for the ambiguity on the leadership question has been Rahul’s own oft-stated disdain for power and reluctance to take on major responsibility.

That seems to be changing and it will possibly be the key driver if Singh is toying with the idea of gracefully exiting the stage and giving up the role he was asked to play by Sonia so long as Rahul was not ready.

At the media conference, Singh is expected to strongly defend his government’s performance over the past decade and iterate his excellent rapport with Sonia. But he may make it clear that he wanted to call it a day. He may also suggest he will be available to groom and guide Rahul.

However, there are many others who feel the die has not been cast yet because the Congress has yet to reconcile several conflicting pulls and pressures.

Although Congress leaders want Rahul to be projected as the leader for the next election, they insist the party cannot afford to give any indication that it wanted to get rid of Singh.

“If we give the impression that we are dumping Manmohan, we will be sending a message that we accept the charge that he had become a liability. We can’t do that as we have to fight the next election on this government’s achievements. We don’t accept the BJP’s accusation that there is a policy paralysis and the government has failed. The process of transition should not look like a coup. Singh should stay as Rahul’s mentor, not look like bowing out under compulsion,” a senior Congress leader said.

Asked what was the logic behind the undeclared demand to appoint Rahul the Prime Minister barely a few months before the election, a leader said: “The main reason is that the demoralised party will get a fresh lease of life, workers all over the country will get rejuvenated. They will be ready for a fight to make Rahul the Prime Minister again, not for anybody else, including Singh. The other gain is that the leadership issue will be settled forever. Even if we lose the next election, Rahul as ‘former Prime Minister’ would be the supreme leader. This message is required to be sent out that Rahul is the future of the Congress.”

Party leaders contest the suggestion that appointing Rahul now would mean diluting the advantage of being an outsider and sharing the burden of anti-incumbency. They say the party is going through its worst crisis and Rahul taking centrestage now will be seen as a decisive step and bury the “outsider” perception that has crystallised around the young leader who is now gradually breaking out of a shell.

The theme at the AICC session is going to be Rahul’s leadership and there will be a chorus to declare him the Prime Minister candidate, this camp insists.

Under these circumstances, it would be wiser for Singh to signal his intention to step aside in advance. By doing that he would not only acquire the role of mentor-in-chief, but also align himself with the sentiment of the party workers who have made it clear to the leadership that only a drastic change can refurbish the badly bruised image of the Congress.

Many MPs have confessed in private conversations after the Assembly poll debacle that they have asked Rahul to accept the mantle of leadership without losing any further time.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 31 Dec 2013 04:44

It's getting dirty now... and personal. Break-India forces (to use Rajiv Malhotra's quaint term) are using cats' paws as sewage fountains...

Narendra Modi will now seek wife, says Jharkhand (Congress) minister (Lead farticle in India Today, no less)

BJP's prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi, now seeking iron scrap from the people for the Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel statue, will one day seek a wife from the common people, a Jharkhand minister said on Monday, creating a political row.

"Earlier, the BJP were seeking bricks (to build the temple in Ayodhya). Now Modi is seeking iron (for the Patel statue). Later, he will seek gold, and a time will come when he will seek a wife from the people. Modi is a 'bewa' (widower)," Animal Husbandry and Fisheries Minister Mannan Mallick told reporters in Dhanbad.

State Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) president Rabindra Rai has demanded the immediate removal of the minister.

"The minister is mentally sick and Chief Minister Hemant Soren should remove him from the cabinet. How can a mentally sick person work as minister," Rai said.

Meanwhile, INC, true to form, continues to run with the hare imagining it still has the cred and legitimacy to pull off plausible deniability...

The Jharkhand Congress has also disowned the statement made by the minister, a member of the party.

"We have come to know about the statement. We disown the minister's statement and there is no place for such language in politics," Jharkhand Congress spokesperson Shailesh Sinha said.

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 31 Dec 2013 09:26

Muppalla wrote: we have a thread to discuss elections, analysis and results. Why we need another thread or why we need to pollute NaMo thread. A lot more from NaMo are coming in the coming days and weeks. AAP is a distraction and the entire world is falling for it. Nothing wrong at all to discuss AAP stuff and let us do it in election thread.

When this thread started AAP did not exist. Now, we have a new political reality. Just like Congress, AAP is also modi baiting party. Don't be surprised if Congress and AAP get into pre-poll seat sharing arrangement in several states. I dont see anything wrong discussing AAP in this thread. More over, the role of Modi changed significantly since the start of this thread. There is not much utility in discussing Modi vs Rahul anymore.

If anything, this thread should be changed to national campaigns and national issues, and state and local issues in the other thread.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2013 09:39

aap is only regional as of now. so are many other regional parties available from many states. let aap contend in 2014, and we can consider them for a thread. (thread perspective thinking onlee)

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 31 Dec 2013 09:51

Modi's idea of India as a contrast to either the Dynasty's or AAP's flawed visions I would think continues to be in scope as part of this thread. Seat-level and region-level dynamics etc can go into the Elections thread - but this thread should be the place for discussing why the NaMo mantra of growth and development with cultural moorings - is the only rational bet for India as opposed to the either the Dynasty's or AAP's populism.