Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by RajeshA »

MurthyB wrote:Heated India Pakistan Debate with Dr. Shashi Tharoor? (Sochta Pakistan, 7 Jan 2012)
Tharoor does a good job of keeping up his diplomats mask and never loses his cool, although one wishes he had given them a few more punches. All in all, he is on message, and in a bizarre role reversal, is the lone wolf standing with a grin while 3 little piggies ..er I mean pakis huff and puff and try to blow the wolf away (from Siachen for instance) :mrgreen:
At a diplomatic level, Tharoor kept his cool and was able to put forth his argument that India and Pakistan should go beyond their respective narratives and undertake concrete actions where possible. He also made a forceful point that it is not in India's own interest to see a destabilized Pakistan, and that is the reason he does not believe that India has any hand in Balochistan unrest, etc. etc.

He made suggestions such as
1) Liberalization of visa regime between the two countries
2) Pakistan according MFN status to India
3) "India has the technology while Pakistan has the wind" as an energy solution
4) Cricketing ties are again coming onstream.
5) India should be importing Pakistani cement

From my perspective, this is all useful, only if India is however working to break up Pakistan. If we are not, then it is just marginally useful, because it allows him to counter the Pakistani narrative, where possible. However he also offers the Pakistanis present at the discussion to present their own narratives in the presence of an Indian and all those points which remain not countered end up giving Pakistani viewers the impression that they are indeed true, in which case Shashi ends up helping Pakistani establishment to sell their narrative to the Pakistani people. So it is a mixed bag.

The problem is that Shashi in order to appear diplomatic and congenial has to support Pakistan's demands that Indian forces withdraw from Siachin. In this he is siding with the Pakis against the wishes and better judgment of our own security forces. In my view this was inappropriate. He says it is due to trust deficit but is of the opinion that it can be bridged. It is unclear whether he means what he said or whether he is simply giving the Pakis some hope even as he knows that that gap is unbridgeable, and as such no movement is expected on this. Still it is not nice to see or show that the Indian political leadership and the Indian Army disagree on Siachen. It is wrong to give Pakis that impression and it was a concession uncalled for.

He should have said that Pakistan has indeed succeeded in converting some Indian Kashmiris over to a pro-Pakistani Wahhabi extremist Islam, and that minority has been keeping J&K on the boil. So even if the boil is by Kashmiris themselves, Pakistan is still at fault and India holds Pakistan to be at fault. As a Congress man, I don't know whether Shashi can state that truth.

The danger is that Shashi may end up becoming another Mani Shanker Aiyar.

Pakistanis are of naturally pissed off that nobody in the world buys their narrative anymore against India and are now pleading with Indians to help them make their case internationally against the Indian narrative! What a bunch of losers!
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7894
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Anujan »

http://tribune.com.pk/story/318191/char ... lba-event/
Speaking at the annual dinner of the Lahore Bar Association (LBA) at the Alhamra Arts Council, the prime minister reiterated his determination to protect democracy against all threats. However, a rowdy crowd of young lawyers – who, sources later alleged, were backed by some judges – shouted him off stage and eventually danced to Indian film songs along with dancing girls specially hired for the event
.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25358
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

RajeshA wrote:The problem is that Shashi in order to appear diplomatic and congenial has to support Pakistan's demands that Indian forces withdraw from Siachin. In this he is siding with the Pakis against the wishes and better judgment of our own security forces. In my view this was inappropriate. He says it is due to trust deficit but is of the opinion that it can be bridged. It is unclear whether he means what he said or whether he is simply giving the Pakis some hope even as he knows that that gap is unbridgeable, and as such no movement is expected on this. Still it is not nice to see or show that the Indian political leadership and the Indian Army disagree on Siachen. It is wrong to give Pakis that impression and it was a concession uncalled for.
RajeshA, I haven't seen the video yet. So, I am basing my opinion on what you have posted above.

I am completely against withdrawing from Saltoro/Siachen unless and until we recover PoK (including GB) completely. However, I am not too sure if what Shashi Tharoor said above goes against the position of GoI. GoI wants Pakistan to authenticate the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL), electronically and on the maps. India's mistrust correctly stems from what Pakistan has been, what Pakistan is and what Pakistan shall be. Pakistan is unwilling to do so because it wants to promptly occupy the heights once the IA vacates. When Tharoor talks about a 'bridgeable mistrust', I suppose this is what he meant, that India mistrusts Pakistan but that can be bridged if Pakistan accepts authenticating AGPL to Indian satisfaction as demanded by GoI.

My position is that there should not be any discussion on Siachen at all with Pakistan. Period.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25358
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

Anujan wrote:http://tribune.com.pk/story/318191/char ... lba-event/
However, a rowdy crowd of young lawyers – who, sources later alleged, were backed by some judges – shouted him off stage and eventually danced to Indian film songs along with dancing girls specially hired for the event
.
Two things here.

One is the involvement of judges in this shouting against their own Prime Minister. Aren't they liable for punishment for this act ? Or, are they emboldened by the squeeze applied by their big boss, Iftikhar Choudhry saheb, against this PPP government ?

The other is the Indian film songs. They are proving the claim in BRf by some that Pakistan is an electorate of India.

On the whole, truly banana.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34774
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:
RajeshA wrote:The problem is that Shashi in order to appear diplomatic and congenial has to support Pakistan's demands that Indian forces withdraw from Siachin. In this he is siding with the Pakis against the wishes and better judgment of our own security forces. In my view this was inappropriate. He says it is due to trust deficit but is of the opinion that it can be bridged. It is unclear whether he means what he said or whether he is simply giving the Pakis some hope even as he knows that that gap is unbridgeable, and as such no movement is expected on this. Still it is not nice to see or show that the Indian political leadership and the Indian Army disagree on Siachen. It is wrong to give Pakis that impression and it was a concession uncalled for.
RajeshA, I haven't seen the video yet. So, I am basing my opinion on what you have posted above.

I am completely against withdrawing from Saltoro/Siachen unless and until we recover PoK (including GB) completely. However, I am not too sure if what Shashi Tharoor said above goes against the position of GoI. GoI wants Pakistan to authenticate the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL), electronically and on the maps. India's mistrust correctly stems from what Pakistan has been, what Pakistan is and what Pakistan shall be. Pakistan is unwilling to do so because it wants to promptly occupy the heights once the IA vacates. When Tharoor talks about a 'bridgeable mistrust', I suppose this is what he meant, that India mistrusts Pakistan but that can be bridged if Pakistan accepts authenticating AGPL to Indian satisfaction as demanded by GoI.

My position is that there should not be any discussion on Siachen at all with Pakistan. Period.

This is one of the issues that the GOI may be hoping to "solve" by getting VKS out of the way.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34774
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by chetak »

Anujan wrote:http://tribune.com.pk/story/318191/char ... lba-event/
Speaking at the annual dinner of the Lahore Bar Association (LBA) at the Alhamra Arts Council, the prime minister reiterated his determination to protect democracy against all threats. However, a rowdy crowd of young lawyers – who, sources later alleged, were backed by some judges – shouted him off stage and eventually danced to Indian film songs along with dancing girls specially hired for the event
.
eventually danced to Indian film songs along with dancing girls specially hired for the event 8)
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Sanku »

RajeshA wrote:
He made suggestions such as

3) "India has the technology while Pakistan has the wind" as an energy solution
So even the sli(c)k boy Tharoor managed to get one thing right.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

SSridhar wrote:
RajeshA wrote:The problem is that Shashi in order to appear diplomatic and congenial has to support Pakistan's demands that Indian forces withdraw from Siachin. In this he is siding with the Pakis against the wishes and better judgment of our own security forces. In my view this was inappropriate. He says it is due to trust deficit but is of the opinion that it can be bridged. It is unclear whether he means what he said or whether he is simply giving the Pakis some hope even as he knows that that gap is unbridgeable, and as such no movement is expected on this. Still it is not nice to see or show that the Indian political leadership and the Indian Army disagree on Siachen. It is wrong to give Pakis that impression and it was a concession uncalled for.
RajeshA, I haven't seen the video yet. So, I am basing my opinion on what you have posted above.

I am completely against withdrawing from Saltoro/Siachen unless and until we recover PoK (including GB) completely. However, I am not too sure if what Shashi Tharoor said above goes against the position of GoI. GoI wants Pakistan to authenticate the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL), electronically and on the maps. India's mistrust correctly stems from what Pakistan has been, what Pakistan is and what Pakistan shall be. Pakistan is unwilling to do so because it wants to promptly occupy the heights once the IA vacates. When Tharoor talks about a 'bridgeable mistrust', I suppose this is what he meant, that India mistrusts Pakistan but that can be bridged if Pakistan accepts authenticating AGPL to Indian satisfaction as demanded by GoI.

My position is that there should not be any discussion on Siachen at all with Pakistan. Period.
I too haven't seen the video 'cos my bandwidth does not permit it.

If I may add to the above, my understanding is that pakis lobbed us a grenade by proposing the withdrawal from Siachen. They win if we refuse by portraying us to the world as the stumbling block to peace. They win if we vacate, as you wrote, by occupying it.

GOI did the correct thing by lobbing the grenade back by asking them to authenticate the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL), electronically and on the maps, a very reasonable request.

I am not sure if this was mentioned by Tharoor, for it was the correct response IMHO.

We have to devise careful positions to all such paki "peace" overtures by avoiding the use of the word "NO". Yes we are ready to discuss every thing under the sun provided certain "reasonable" conditions are met. The conditions need not be reasonable, it just has to appear reasonable.
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7894
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Anujan »

The supreme court in pakiland just ruled that groper and ten percenti violated the constitution *and the quran* (not kidding) in the NRO case and don't deserve to be Parliamentarians!!
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14740
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Aditya_V »

Anujan wrote:The supreme court in pakiland just ruled that groper and ten percenti violated the constitution *and the quran* (not kidding) in the NRO case and don't deserve to be Parliamentarians!!

Are they then charged under the blasphemany law :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
rajanb
BRFite
Posts: 1945
Joined: 03 Feb 2011 16:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by rajanb »

'Prima Facie the prime minister is not an honest man and violated his oath.'
By Justice Khosa on the NRO Verdict.

Why am I having a "I could have told you that" moment? :lol:
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

So now we enter the next phase of the game.
pralay
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 527
Joined: 24 May 2009 23:07

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pralay »

another 29 dispatched to meet their 72
PESHAWAR: At least 29 people were killed and 27 others were critically injured on Tuesday in a bomb blast near a petrol pump in Jamrud bazar of Khyber Agency, political agent Mutahirzeb told The Express Tribune.

The cause of the blast is still unknown; however, initial investigations show that the bomb was planted in a taxi stand near the petrol pump.

The injured have been shifted to the Hayatabad Medical Complex in Peshawar.

Dr Syed Ali Shah from Hayatabad Medical Complex said that the hospital received four dead bodies and two critically injured people. The injured also later passed away.

At least 32 other injured people were also brought to the hospital, among which four are currently in a critical condition due to head injuries, he added.

According to sources, the members of a local peace committee, called Zaka Khel, in Khyber Agency were passing through the area when the bomb exploded. The committee fights against the militants in the area.

Authorities in Peshawar say that militants have changed their tactics and now tend to target security officials that have begun a crackdown against them. A number of security officials have been receiving threats and many were kidnapped and killed.

The militants say that they are avenging the security operation taking place in the area that has left many of their fellows killed.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

Latest AFP figures put the toll @ 35
Yogi_G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2449
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 04:10
Location: Punya Bhoomi -- Jambu Dweepam

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Yogi_G »

So Imran Khan comes on times now and says the only credible institution left in Pakistan is the judiciary. Yeah right!
Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13257
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Lalmohan »

the only credible institution left in pakistan is jemima goldsmith
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by RajeshA »

Memogate was a diversion. The real attack was on the NRO front.

I wander how much the British had their hand in this!
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by CRamS »

Dipanker wrote: I am surprised you are calling him poor, he kicked some paki ass!
I call him poor because he is a polished, erudite, gentle bloke whose worldview is incompatible with those abominable pigLeTs hounding him with all kinds of paranoid obsessions of theirs. Plus, I don't take any comfort at verbal volleys with TSP. The struggle with TSP is not a debating contest. For all of Tharoor's volleys, I am sure TSP RAPE who saw that debate will also take comfort at the volleys their jihadis fired on Tharoor. I mean they live in an alternate universe and the reason why that alternate worldview has a life of its own is because TSP gives it life through pigLeTs asserting themselves like they did on 26/11. And the answer to that is not a debate. The answer lies in inflicting pain.
Narad
BRFite
Posts: 886
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 15:15

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Narad »

anishns wrote: May Allah grant Janna to the purer one :roll:
Jana Shah of pee deaf fame? :mrgreen: She is old n fat, and definitely not a virginn.
Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6828
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Vikas »

Anujan wrote:The supreme court in pakiland just ruled that groper and ten percenti violated the constitution *and the quran* (not kidding) in the NRO case and don't deserve to be Parliamentarians!!
10% is such a smart kid. He is not a Parliamentarian to start with.
Thanks to Allah, He is saved :mrgreen:
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25358
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

Wasn't somebody asking here why the fireworks have stopped in Pakistan ? Now, both political and terror fireworks have started simultaneously.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

Kayani meets senior military officials
RAWALPINDI: Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaque Pervez Kayani held an informal meeting with senior military officials at the Army General Headquarters (GHQ) on Tuesday following his return from China, DawnNews reported.

The Army chief was briefed about Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani’s recent interview to a Chinese newspaper concerning Kayani and DG ISI Shuja Pasha’s statements to the Supreme Court. Kayani was visiting Beijing on a five-day official trip to meet with the Chinese military and political leadership.

According to sources, a detailed statement is expected soon from the Pakistani military on the prime minister’s interview. Sources also say that the following 24 hours are extremely important as far as civil-military relations are concerned.

The Corps Commander’s meeting, scheduled to take place next week, was also postponed. A new date for the meeting was not yet announced.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

Zardari calls emergency PPP core committee meeting
ISLAMABAD: President Asif Ali Zardari on Tuesday called an emergency meeting of the Pakistan People’s Party’s (PPP) core committee at the Presidency in Islamabad, DawnNews reported.

A scheduled meeting of the president with a delegation of Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) leaders in Karachi was also postponed earlier today.

Speaking to DawnNews, presidential spokesperson Farhatullah Babar declined to comment on the Supreme Court’s orders on the NRO case Tuesday, stating that he had not yet read the detailed verdict.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25358
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

Elections are around the corner folks. Gilani saheb can forget about the Senate elections, it will be general elections shortly. I am beginning to wonder why Musharraf actually pre-poned his return to Pakistan from March to end-January. The recent six-day visit to China and the 75-minute talk with Wen, after all, acquire a new meaning in the face of the latest judicial developments. The ISI, FIA and the IB have so far played their cards well by drumming up support for their candidate, Imran Khan. The next task for these three organizations is to scandalize Nawaz Sharif and get as many party members to cross over as possible. That effort, already in full swing, will only acquire a greater urgency now. Never a dull moment in Pakistan. In fact, every moment is more exciting than the earlier one.
Suppiah
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2569
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: -
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Suppiah »

pankajs wrote:1 Sources also say that the following 24 hours are extremely important as far as civil-military relations are concerned.
Is slavery and browning the pant when the Army general flexes muscles considered 'relationship'?

Look like 10% is with the back to the wall so he is taking on the Army having no choice left or perhaps fate is sealed anyway..

TSP - a country where the Army can open doors for you, if you are in their good books, otherwise they open the sun-roof ..and let some fresh air in..
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

Let us wait for the army press release on groper's comments.

It would seem logical now to assume that the government would want the Army/Judiciary combo to sack the government. If early election is inevitable anyway, the script would be to go to the people as martyrs of political conspiracy.
abhijitm
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3679
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 15:02
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by abhijitm »

from nutty nation
Indian hackers fell DGPR website
Directorate General Public Relations (DGPR)'s official website has been hacked by Indian hackers, on Tuesday. It is pertinent to mention that the site has not been working properly since the last one hour. Sources said a firm namely Indishell is claiming credit for the hacking.
SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5873
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SBajwa »

This refugee problem is more or less the same problem due to which South Korea is tolerating North Korea and kim's idiocu.
There won't be a refugee problem in punjab as Indian economy has grown most of the labour in Punjab from Bihar/UP has gone back to their home states. Punjab/Haryana needs lot of labor to work in fields and factories.
KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4849
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

shiv wrote:
jamwal wrote:
Is this fluency in a foreign language something that important ?
LOL Perfectly valid point! But the fact is that Tharoors language style has an appeal to a peculiar class of "Indian public school" types who go hahaha about Wodehouse. Unfortunately or not it includes me because a part of my own personality was shaped in a similar background.

I could call it an Indian Anglophone Macaulayite old school network that is tickled/titillated by the language.
Tharoor headed up the Wodehouse Society of India for some time.
member_22286
BRFite
Posts: 812
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by member_22286 »

SBajwa wrote:
This refugee problem is more or less the same problem due to which South Korea is tolerating North Korea and kim's idiocu.
There won't be a refugee problem in punjab as Indian economy has grown most of the labour in Punjab from Bihar/UP has gone back to their home states. Punjab/Haryana needs lot of labor to work in fields and factories.
They are not even fit to be even used as labour sir and they bring a lot of problems to us demographic change is one such thing
member_22286
BRFite
Posts: 812
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by member_22286 »

E-TV telugu is showing Military style kammandus near Presidential palace Pakistan.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by shiv »

KLNMurthy wrote:
shiv wrote: LOL Perfectly valid point! But the fact is that Tharoors language style has an appeal to a peculiar class of "Indian public school" types who go hahaha about Wodehouse. Unfortunately or not it includes me because a part of my own personality was shaped in a similar background.

I could call it an Indian Anglophone Macaulayite old school network that is tickled/titillated by the language.
Tharoor headed up the Wodehouse Society of India for some time.
It shows in his style of understated sarcasm. "We have the technology and you have the wind"
KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4849
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

I saw most of the Tharoor video finally. Tharoor's act is interesting in that it may be telegraphing GoI intent; it is clear that there is no space in the Indian esrablishment for a steely-eyed defense of India with a minimal engagement with TSP. Tharoor himself is not the issue as is a kind of collective superstition he represents vis-a-vis TSP.

The pakis are more interesting--my Urdu is limited but there is ample evidence here that (a) they are monsters (b) their policy can be explained as two-pronged: (a)the hegira model of exile pending conquest and (b) behaving, for all intents and purposes, as though muslum league achieved its confederation with separate muslim electorate having, in effect veto power over the self-definition of the subcontinent.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14222
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by svinayak »

KLNMurthy wrote:
The pakis are more interesting-- (b) behaving, for all intents and purposes, as though muslum league achieved its confederation with separate muslim electorate having, in effect veto power over the self-definition of the subcontinent.
If we let them do it and define who Indians are then they will do it. India has to project itself directly to the rest of the world. Then there will be no contest. Pakis has taken advantage of it and of course with UK and company.
Indians have to define the rest of the people in the sub continent. The current elite generation and from independence time have been no clear about their identity for India and for the sub continent.
RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by RSoami »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... story.html

Pakistani court warns prime minister over failure to prosecute president on graft charges

http://nvonews.com/2012/01/10/pakistan- ... musharraf/
Pakistan should build better ties with Israel to drive out India: Musharraf

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 439602.cms
India won't come in way of Israel-Pak ties: Krishna :P
Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Pranav »

KLNMurthy wrote:it is clear that there is no space in the Indian esrablishment for a steely-eyed defense of India with a minimal engagement with TSP.
IMHO, there is no option but to engage simultaneously with multiple power centers in TSP. Minimal engagement will not get us anywhere in terms of influencing the course of events.
MurthyB
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 18 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: "Visa Officer", Indian Consulate #13,451, Khost Province, Afghanistan

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by MurthyB »

KLNMurthy wrote:I saw most of the Tharoor video finally. Tharoor's act is interesting in that it may be telegraphing GoI intent; it is clear that there is no space in the Indian esrablishment for a steely-eyed defense of India with a minimal engagement with TSP. Tharoor himself is not the issue as is a kind of collective superstition he represents vis-a-vis TSP.

The pakis are more interesting--my Urdu is limited but there is ample evidence here that (a) they are monsters (b) their policy can be explained as two-pronged: (a)the hegira model of exile pending conquest and (b) behaving, for all intents and purposes, as though muslum league achieved its confederation with separate muslim electorate having, in effect veto power over the self-definition of the subcontinent.

Well, Manmohan Singh has spared no opportunity to say he wants reengaements with Pakistan. Tharoor made the same point in his Asian Age article. Noone in GOI has ever said that they want to no engagement with them. But on the other hand, the steeley eyed defense of Indian interests seems to continue on the ground. Nothing has been given away. On Siachen, GOI's position has long been that it should be demilitarized provided the AGPL is agreed too by the Pakis. In think Singh once declared that it should be become a 'friendship park' or something like that. Tharoor did not get into a prolonged debate of how and why the IA got there (after all the Pakis were encouraging expeidtions from their side with published maps that appeared to show it as theirs, and plus there was the giant order of snow gear that IA got wind of I think), but made an abstract jab about trust. I think that he, as a debater, did not want to get sucked into debating these details, but wanted to remain on his message. In debating it is a good tactic to not let the enemy define the topic. Even on the LTTE, he could have elucidated on history more clearly, but he quickly jumped to telling them to help India fight LeT as India had done. His goal was to stay on message (regardless of whether one agrees with the value of that message), and in that he was successful I think.

The Pakis show their typical sense of entitlement but seem to grasping at straws. Can't see anyone falling for this crap anymore, anywhere, other than the most persistant India haters and dhimmis.
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4654
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by hnair »

Shree Tharoor's accent is more Indian Public school angrej. Not exactly foreign. It struck me when he was being interviewed by Stephen Colbert once and could contrast between the two. Of course RAPE has a distinct, lazy drawl that seem to make them appear cocky to non-juvy neutrals, with minimal inputs from injuns. And of course the usual "Karachi is like Bombay" trademark comments sort of gives their yearning for acceptance away.

Shree ST's twitter stream has a few pakis making interesting observations of the above kind. His kid also seems to have been busy
http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2012/0 ... -be-saved/
Post Reply