Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 21 Apr 2014

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Jul 2014 17:29

Rambo Davis, with his troupe, was likely surveilling on two things
1. LET / JUD HQ in Muridke
2. The pakis have a pilot uranium enrichment plant north of Lahore near muridke, set up with chinese help

He might have been the muscle escorting the CIA wallahs who were meeting with insiders at these locations.
So the ISI wallahs wanted to meet all of them / intercept them. Like the dutiful muscle, he let the real guys make good their escape, and stayed back to draw all the fire.

Very doubtful if he had any valuable info on him really. He is a true herrow, GI Joe, even willing to sacrifice himself, endure all those days in Pakistani sarkari hospitality without bottled water, unclean toilets, risk of getting gastroenteritis. (Trust me, these are the real fears that the americans have with sarkari custody in Paksitan) (Getting captured by Jehadis who are out of ISI control means a Livefist / youtube beheading, but seriously, there are few jehadis in Pakistan whom the ISI can't reach and make a deal with. Every Jehadi org has someone in Jail whom they want released, they have families that the ISI can pressure)

Rambo Davis was just a muscle, a decoy, IMHO.

My two cents onlee

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 04 Jul 2014 20:47

G man, then the comment on him by reidel is even more unwarranted. He did his job in that case. I know that the incident in which he was arrested was minor, the thing I find interesting is reidel mentioning it in this video. There was no need for him to do that. Maybe the comment was against such ops by reidel. Such ops wouldnt be liked by guys close to ISI. The fact that there are people executing such ops despite the chumminess is an interesting data point, indicating the presence of people who think differently from the cold warriors.

[CT ]The other car may have carried away the real guys in that case. Maybe the team was burned or was given up to bakis by some higher up in the agency. [/CT]

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Jul 2014 06:27

A few news snippets about operation buzzm-e-zamzam from one source
http://www.opednews.com/articles/500-00 ... 3-696.html

What is going on in the operation theatre is not known, since like the previous military operations in Swat and elsewhere, it is happening behind the smoke screen. No one knows what are the army targets and who are those people who are being killed as "terrorists." The military operation area is a no-go area for the media and any observers. The only information about the brutal operation comes from the Press Office of Army, which is known as the Inter-Services Press Relations (ISPR).

According to the ISPR more than 300 "terrorists" have been killed in the operation launched on June 15. However, no dead body has been produced. There is no news about the civilian casualties.

The long-awaiting military operation at the advice of the United States has created a humanitarian crisis, with about 500,000 civilians displaced. Tellingly, the US-client government of Nawaz Sharif did not make any arrangement to evacuate the innocent people from the war zone.

Tellingly, the provincial governments of Punjab and Sindh have announced that the North Waziristan displaced persons are not welcomed in their provinces.

Ahmadullah Ahmadi, a spokesman for the non-TTP North Waziristan Taliban commanded by Hafiz Gul Bahadur, told The News on phone from an undisclosed location that the shura had advised their fighters to retaliate against the use of force by the government in North Waziristan.

The Hafiz Gul Bahadur-led Taliban, who until now were considered pro-government, had signed a peace accord with the government in 2006 and renewed it in 2007. Both sides under the agreement had promised not to attack each other.

Criticizing the military operation in North Waziristan, Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F), chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman, on Wednesday said that Pakistan had surpassed India, Sri Lanka and other countries in the use of force against its own people.

He said that India was 10 times stronger than Pakistan but Pakistan's institutions had surpassed India, Sri Lanka, and other countries in using force against its own people to settle disputes.

As the military operation continues in North Waziristan, the US Senate Committee on Appropriations announced approval of a bill that allocates around $960 million in assistance for Pakistan in the 2015 fiscal year.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Jul 2014 06:44

^^^^
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/840/8059.htm

Where The Authorities Claimed Killing Over 55 Uzbek Terrorists, The Locals Saw Only A Dead Pigeon

Probably the pigeon too had died of natural causes

http://tribune.com.pk/story/731424/arti ... or-cities/

Article 245 to be invoked: Army to aid civil powers in major cities

The prime minister has decided in principle to approve the deployment of the armed forces in aid of the civil administration to enhance security at sensitive installations across the country under Article 245 of the Constitution. Nawaz Sharif took the decision after consulting his close aides during a high-level meeting in Islamabad on Friday.
“Under Article 245, which is already implemented in North Waziristan Agency, the army will be called to assist the civilian administration to heighten security arrangements at sensitive installations in major cities and wherever they are. A notification will be issued within a couple of days,” Information Minister Pervaiz Rashid told The Express Tribune.

Article 245 essentially says that the Paki PM can call upon the army to aid the government, that decision cannot be questioned and courts have no jurisdiction over areas the army are active.

Let me introduce you to a scam that Pakistan army runs. Read this blog post by Ayesha Siddiqa Agha
http://ayeshasiddiqa.blogspot.com/2011/ ... -land.html

Basically the Army occupies some land. To "conduct exercises" or some such. And then it becomes theirs. So time for some choice plots for jernails and kernails.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Jul 2014 07:26

Peregrine wrote:

Cheers

Who are those guys, sitting on the Pakistanis?

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Jul 2014 08:03

[CT ]The other car may have carried away the real guys in that case. Maybe the team was burned or was given up to bakis by some higher up in the agency. [/CT]

IIRC, not a CT since a superb book on CIA spec-ops, "Way of the Knife", mentions this as the case ( not burning part but he was guarding a Higher target in another vehicle)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Jul 2014 09:15

A_Gupta wrote:Who are those guys, sitting on the Pakistanis?

arun · Post by **arun** » 05 Jul 2014 11:42

X Posted from the “Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc” thread.

Disproportionate use of force in the invasion of North Waziristan under Operation Zarb-e-Azb by the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has resulted in 566,000 Pathan refuges per the Islamic Republic Of Pakistan’s Minister of States and Frontier Regions, Lt. Gen. (Retd) Qadir Baloch.

Disappointing that the Mohammadden world otherwise every so ready to heave up in anger at the flimsiest of excuses has not risen up in anger at the naming of this operation in North Waziristan targeting fellow Mohammaddens after the sword used by that religions founder, Mohammad. Also disappointing that the Mohammadden world otherwise every so ready to heave up in anger at the flimsiest of excuses has not risen up in anger at this operation in North Waziristan targeting fellow Mohammaddens being continued during the Mohammadden holy month of Ramadan aka Ramazan.

At home here in India, the Mohammadden population of Jammu and Kashmir should be thankful that the Indian Army has not resorted to the indiscriminate use of force for quelling acts of Mohammaddenism Terrorism there. But then again doing a stint as a refugee might make Mohammadden Kashmiri’s more sensitive to the plight of Hindu Pandit’s who have been ethnically cleansed and driven out of the Kashmir valley by Mohammadden Terrorists:

566,000 registered as IDPs, meeting told

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Jul 2014 22:39

Nuclear restraint and stabilisation
By ShamShadai Ahmad

This Intellectualy Challneged Son in Law of His own Father Reply Hakim Sahib

Today’s world is in turmoil. South Asia is at the root of most of its problems ranging from interstate conflicts to unresolved disputes, human tragedies, violence, extremism and terrorism. With its overt nuclearisation, South Asia’s problems are no longer an exclusive concern of the region itself. They now have a worrisome global dimension, which raises major powers’ stakes in the issues of peace and security in this region.If the turbulent history of this region had any lessons, the world’s engagement in this region must have been aimed at promoting strategic balance rather than disturbing it. A stable nuclear security order is what we need in South Asia. Any measures that contribute to lowering of the nuclear threshold and fuelling of an unnecessary arms race between the two nuclear-armed neighbours are no service to the people of this region. India’s triad-based nuclear doctrine, its aggressive ‘Cold Start’ strategy and its introduction of anti-ballistic missile system constitute ‘overkill’ for the region’s stability.With Narendra Modi’s India now opening its doors to the world’s military industries, the region faces a spectre of an apocalyptic arms race with far-reaching implications for the world’s peace and security. A nuclearised region cannot afford any more adventurism, not even a limited conventional war that India’s devious Cold Start doctrine seeks to impose on Pakistan through quick and intense conventional offensive. What could be the response of any conventionally weaker state to such a threat? The only credible response has to be a counter force, which in the India-Pakistan scenario means tactical warheads.

Obviously, in the face of India’s fast developing capabilities, including its dangerous weapon-inductions, aggressive doctrines and devious nuclear cooperation arrangements enabling diversion of nuclear material for military purposes, equally dangerous options in response are inevitable. The situation is being aggravated by growing nuclear and military disparities in the region as a result of country-specific preferential treatment that India is receiving in terms of its access to nuclear technology in violation of the global non-proliferation regime.
This brings into focus the US-India nuclear deal and the subsequent carte blanche that India has received in the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) for access to nuclear technology in violation of equitably applicable criteria. India is also seeking exemption in the FMT similar to those it has been granted under the iniquitous US-India deal. This enables India to keep its eight ‘civil’ nuclear reactors and the breeder programme outside IAEA safeguards which can produce a significant amount of weapon-grade plutonium. Pakistan is opposed to any FMT exemptions and is also concerned over NSG’s discrimination against it.It was indeed ironic that the NSG, which was set up in response to the first act of nuclear proliferation by India’s first nuclear test in 1974, and works on the basis of consensus to prevent further proliferation, decided unanimously to reward the perpetrator of such proliferation. Given the consensus rule, any one of these 46 nations could have blocked this decision. The fact that they did not do so was because their profit motives got the better of their principles or they simply lacked the courage of their convictions.Against this backdrop, issues of nuclear and strategic stability in this volatile region need to be predicated on the principle of indivisible security. Only criteria-based approaches on the basis of equality and non-discrimination between the two defacto nuclear weapon states would be sustainable. The NSG must rectify its lopsided approach and allow a criteria-based treatment to Pakistan on a par with India. Its discriminatory approach does not serve the cause of peace and stability in the region and weakens the global nuclear security process.The policymakers in world’s major capitals, especially Washington, should also have been working ‘extra time’ to promote a sense of security and justice in this region by eschewing discriminatory policies in their dealings with the India-Pakistan nuclear equation, the only one in the world that grew up in history totally unrelated to the Cold War. It was a direct offshoot of a long-standing legacy of India’s conflictual relationship with its two immediate neighbours. Surely, India and Pakistan, as part of their Composite Dialogue, have already agreed on a number of nuclear and conventional CBMs, including risk-reduction measures.

They must now move to CBMs on conflict prevention and avoidance of arms race. This they can do only if India is not encouraged or abetted in its Maha Bharata designs and is instead nudged to return to the dialogue table for genuine peace in the region. South Asia needs an environment of peace and security to be able to divert its resources for the economic wellbeing of its people. This requires India and Pakistan to maintain the lowest level of armament.
Pakistan’s long-standing proposal for nuclear and missile restraint, conventional balance and conflict-resolution will go a long way in promoting nuclear and conventional restraint and mutual stabilisation. ( Ajlaf and Ashraf Are not Equal Janab)Likewise, non-induction of ABMs and other destabilising systems could also serve as an arms limitation measure. Arms reduction could follow in due course later as the two sides build up trust and confidence. States may have extra-regional concerns. But to the extent that their force potentials are specific to the regional states, arms limitation and other CBMs can be pursued. They are not mutually exclusive.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Jul 2014 02:43

With Narendra Modi’s India now opening its doors to the world’s military industries, the region faces a spectre of an apocalyptic arms race with far-reaching implications for the world’s peace and security.

Well if a thoroughbred can be compared to a mule, yeah it's a race.

The situation is being aggravated by growing nuclear and military disparities in the region as a result of country-specific preferential treatment that India is receiving in terms of its access to nuclear technology in violation of the global non-proliferation regime.

Of course the disparities have nothing to do with the intra-Mohammedan cleansing that remains the priority of impoverished, backward, illiterate Pakistan.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Jul 2014 03:48

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/22896 ... ni-at-all/
( Not Sure if this was posted B4)
I am from FATA and, today, I don’t feel Pakistani at all

I was shocked when I heard that the governments of Punjab and Sindh have barred Waziristan’s Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) from entering their provinces.Belonging to the tribal areas, I know how much our forefathers have sacrificed for this country. It was our people who took part in Pakistan’s first war against India in 1948, to save Kashmir – and this was when Pakistan’s own army general had refused to fight. Today, whatever part of Kashmir comes under Pakistani territory, it’s all thanks to the efforts of my people.Even Muhammad Ali Jinnah acknowledged our strength and perseverance. He withdrew Pakistani forces from the western borders as he knew that the tribal people were more than capable of safeguarding the country. He trusted our merit.Punjab and Sindh, two of Pakistan’s most developed and progressive provinces, announced that they will not allow these IDPs to enter their boundaries. According to Article 247, FATA comes under the federal government and the governor of K-P is the chief executive officer of the tribal area. This would mean that the people of Fata are the government’s responsibility, and as such, all avenues should be kept open for them in their times of need.Even the Afghan government has welcomed these tribal IDPs. Afghanistan, a country that doesn’t even own the people of Fata, and is already in so much turmoil, has taken these IDPs under their wings; but two major, prospering and economically strong provinces of Pakistan have refused to take them. It is beyond me how these provincial governments can be so indifferent to the plight of the IDPs. Are these displaced individuals not part of Pakistan? Would they have done the same had these people belonged to Balochistan or K-P?What will these IDPs think when they hear about this? That their own people have disowned them? Will this ban strengthen the federation or damage it even more? Especially at a time when it is imperative for Pakistanis to stand united.Right now, I have trouble understanding if the people of Fata belong to Afghanistan or to Pakistan, for surely, the former has shown them more care and hospitality than the latter ever will

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Jul 2014 06:04

India to corner Pak on JuD, to seek US help

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Jul 2014 07:15

abhishek_sharma wrote:India to corner Pak on JuD, to seek US help

From the above

We have been crying hoarse about Hafiz Saeed’s involvement to fund terror-related incidents in India, but now after the US also banned the group we expect our request to be taken more seriously,”

Whoever said this must be smoking high octane pot. US is going to take India's request seriously? Give me a break. What US will say, the equivalent of kiss my ass, is that US has banned Hafeez Pig for "global terrorism" (meaning his affiliates being involved with the might Al Queda) but not his "social activities" and his involvement in the "dispute over Kashmir". This is exactly TSP's formulation. CIA/Pentagon will script this, and Marie Harf, state dept mouthpiece will regurgitate this.

Aside from that, its pathetic that India has to rely on US that has absolutely no interest on India specific terror. Whatever happened to India's often repeated mantra that India will not allow 3rd party intervention in India TSP affairs? Whats the difference between TSP asking US mediation in the "core issue" and India begging US for deliverance? India TSP equal equal?

Finally, the key issue that India should be discussing with US is its arms sales to TSP. Did ModiJi raise this issue with McCain?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jul 2014 08:01

CRamS wrote:
Whoever said this must be smoking high octane pot. US is going to take India's request seriously? Give me a break. What US will say, the equivalent of kiss my ass,

The fact that the US has been saying the equivalent of kiss my ass is already there in the article, in case you missed it in your haste to make a high octane post.

That will only reinforce what India knows about the US - and that is apart from fighting Pakistan on its own, India in the long term will have to fight the US. A downgrading of the clout of the US in this world will automatically lead to a downgrading of Pakistani capability. This is the lesson that Indians who are not smoking any pot are beginning to understand. The problem is more difficult than simply handling Pakistan.

The future will see several minor bilateral cold wars between US and India, US and China, US and other emerging nations that will ultimately seek to devalue US influence.

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Jul 2014 08:20

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan develops amnesia about her self-imposed role as “Fortress of Islam” and remains mum about the persecution of Mohammaddens by “Higher than Himalaya’s” “Deeper than Indian Ocean” “Sweeter than Honey” friend P.R. China.

Spokesperson of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on the subject of P.R. Chinese persecution of adherents of Mohammaddenism by way of restricting fasting during Ramazan / Ramadan in Xinjiang province:

“I have no confirmation that the media reports are true. I have no comments on speculative reports,” spokesperson at the Foreign Office told ‘The News’.

From The News at the below weblink:

Pakistan has no comment yet on Chinese ban on fasting

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 06 Jul 2014 17:03

Peregrine wrote:

Cheers

A_Gupta wrote:Who are those guys, sitting on the Pakistanis?

A_Gupta Ji :

U S Americans riding on the Pakistanis.

Cheers

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jul 2014 17:58

A few days back, vernacular Tamil newspapers carried a small item on Hafiz Saeed visiting Sind borders with Rajasthan. Normally such a visit means an imminent action. I have not seen these reports in any English language newspaper.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 06 Jul 2014 18:21

If only someone knew how to count up to 200,....

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Jul 2014 18:42

DoCJi, you are right, I did see it mentioned that US always dismisses India's travails with TSP terror and Hafeez pig. Thats why its all the more surprising why this Indian official is hoping US will take India seriously even though they put some bogus sanctions on Hafeez. As I said, they will come up with some Googly distinguishing between his "bad terror" for which they have placed sanctions, and "dispute over Kashmir". Heck if 9/11 did not force US to act against TSP and instead co-opted those thugs as munnas, what changes now especially as US prepares to cut and run, and US needs TSP"s help so "bad terrorists" don't hurl LEDs and plan road side bombs as the boys come home. Attacks on Indians and Indians embassies is Kosher, because India by its very presence in Afghanistan is "provocative" to poor TSP munna.

ArunK · Post by **ArunK** » 06 Jul 2014 19:37

One more video -- slightly dated. Thought I would share. it is possible this has already been posted here before. But I liked listening to Jaswant Singh and Bruce Reidel on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SCIsq1B8ng

Bruce Reidel again on Pakistan --> He is promoting his book --> Deadly Embrace.

He states that in case of "another mass causality attack in the US, the centcom has 130 targets in Pakistan locked and ready"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNi1AQB9tx0 - Part -1

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jul 2014 21:01

CRS, Give it a rest and think about what it means.
No point in going hyper.
Modi is telling Ombaba to put up or this thread title.
With Doval, ISI piglets are scared kittens.

Take out Hafiz and all fall down.

So Modi is telling BO if you want progress in strategic relationship then it takes two hands to clap.

Its in Pak interests to neutralize Suar.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 06 Jul 2014 21:16

shiv wrote:
CRamS wrote:
Whoever said this must be smoking high octane pot. US is going to take India's request seriously? Give me a break. What US will say, the equivalent of kiss my ass,
The fact that the US has been saying the equivalent of kiss my ass is already there in the article, in case you missed it in your haste to make a high octane post.

That will only reinforce what India knows about the US - and that is apart from fighting Pakistan on its own, India in the long term will have to fight the US. A downgrading of the clout of the US in this world will automatically lead to a downgrading of Pakistani capability. This is the lesson that Indians who are not smoking any pot are beginning to understand. The problem is more difficult than simply handling Pakistan.

The future will see several minor bilateral cold wars between US and India, US and China, US and other emerging nations that will ultimately seek to devalue US influence.

if you are going to devalue our influence you might want to look at this:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5330.html

these figures mean that if the US gets a common cold, India gets the swine flu.

I would also suggest that you look at China-India trade stats and understand that too also affects China in the same way and grok that to India's advantage.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 06 Jul 2014 22:00

SSridhar wrote:A few days back, vernacular Tamil newspapers carried a small item on Hafiz Saeed visiting Sind borders with Rajasthan. Normally such a visit means an imminent action. I have not seen these reports in any English language newspaper.

IIRC English/Hindi news channels did show the good professor moving around (not sure if the pictures were recent). At the the news was give.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Jul 2014 22:16

ArunK,

What is stopping US from taking out 5-10% of those targets now to signal its intent?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 07 Jul 2014 02:30

Now Your See Them, Now You Don't

Taliban cut hair and beards to flee army assault

Hundreds of Taliban fighters rushed to disguise themselves with new haircuts in the weeks before the launch of the North Waziristan operation, it has emerged, as refugees revealed details of life under the militants - and their taste for imported luxuries.

Azam Khan was one of the top barbers in Miramshah...told AFP his business boomed in the month leading up to the army assault as the militants sought to shed their distinctive long-haired, bearded look.

“I have trimmed the hair and beards of more than 700 local and Uzbek militants ahead of the security forces' operation”

“The same leaders came asking for trimming their beards and hair very short, saying that they were going to the Gulf and wanted to avoid problems at Pakistani airports,” Khan said.

The military has said it will target militants “of all hue and colour” but the scant resistance troops have encountered has led many to believe the insurgents fled before the offensive, limiting its effectiveness.

“It is clear that militants were aware that the offensive was coming before it started. Lots of them fled,” a Western diplomat told AFP.

What a shocker!! Who could have foreseen such a cowardly act by the tellibunnies? I am going to write a letter to the New York Times.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 07 Jul 2014 02:55

^^^:
“They had a lot of eagerness for French and Turkish perfumes, body sprays and soaps. Muhammad Zarif, a wholesale merchant in Datta Khel, near Miramshah, said fighters would buy large quantities of British detergent and American cooking oil, much of it smuggled from Dubai."

Metrosexuals! Who knew? American cooking: extra virgin presumably for known purposes. British detergent for lathering up??.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 Jul 2014 04:34

^^Well, times have changed...

Instead of Grease Up, Bend Over (old fashioned GUBO) - it is now Lather Up, Bend Over (LUBO). How appropriate!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jul 2014 06:36

TSJones wrote:
if you are going to devalue our influence you might want to look at this:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5330.html

these figures mean that if the US gets a common cold, India gets the swine flu.
.

Clever rhetoric also means that India already has cholera and malaria and a bit of swine flu won't make that much of a difference.

More seriously, the US is unable to pull its hand out of the Pakistan cookie jar and when the US tells India to f*k off wrt to Pakistan it is not because the US is getting Pakistan to do its job, but the US believes that it is "steadying" Pakistan and a steady, stable Pakistan is in US interests, given that the US has sunk in untold billions into Af-Pak apart from losing 2000 plus lives (in addition) to the 3000 who died on 9-11. Too many Indians who think they know the US come on here to "advise" India about how the US reacts.

Actually I think India has some advice for the US - plenty of advice actually. It is astounding that the US does not follow at least some of that advice about Pakistan. The fact that the US does not follow Indian advice is usually portrayed by Indians who claim to know America as an indicator of how little India matters and how the US rules the roost and knows exactly where it is going and what it is doing. You are saying the same thing - so this seems to be easy to believe for people sitting in the US.

That is complete nonsense and misreading of what the US is doing. The US is making a series of mistakes and when the US makes mistakes it definitely imposes some cost on India - so that is nothing new for India. But every mistake the US makes also imposes a cost on the US and brings US power down by a notch with regard to someone or the other.

When US power decreases by a notch with regard to Pakistan it is India that faces the immediate backlash and it is India that "takes up the slack" in opposing and scaring Pakistan and forcing Pakistan into areas where India wants it to go. Not all those areas are beneficial to the US. In other words when India gives Pakistan a cold the US has a bout of diarrhea. It would be better for everyone if the US could take Indian advice and cooperate with India in the direction that Pakistan needs to go.

But the US is not doing that and it will be the US that will feel more heat in the end. There will be virtually no change in the heat that India feels.It can't get much worse unless we wage nuclear war. We already have swine flu, thanks to the US. The US is currently unable to do much about NoKo other than massage itself to sleep thinking that NoKo is suffering (maybe NoKo hs swine flu?) . It is only a matter of time before Pakistani missiles are able to reach Israel and Europe. I guess the US will still feel safe then. But heck, that is not India's problem. Congratulations to your country in being such a fine exponent of international relations.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jul 2014 07:19

"The Blood Telegram" is a book that details how Nixon - who actually had great influence over Pakistan refused to pressure Pakistan to stop the genocide in East Pakistan - there is a famous handwritten note from Nixon telling his people not to put pressure on Yahya Khan.

This undoubtedly resulted in detente between the US and China which is portrayed as a sort of diplomatic masterstroke - but it was one blow that lost India and Pakistan for the US. India has never fully trusted the US since then, and Pakistan itself started moving away from the US right back then, despite the seeming cosy relationship during the Zia era and the formation of the Taliban

What the US is doing now is a repeat of Nixon's "Don't pressure Yahya" where the US funds and supports the Pakistani army and does not wish anyone to put pressure on the Pakistani army. This is a mistake. There are large arts of teh Pakistani population who do not love the Pakistani army.

As if to compound the US's problems in not pressurizing the Paki army - the US can only go so far in stopping India from putting pressure on the Pakistan army. If the Paki army provokes - India will hit back. In 1971 the Pakistani army provoked and India did hit back. This time the US has tried to pressure Pakistan and India not to get into a scrap while they pay the Paki army to do something in its western border. And the Paki army is not doing what the US wants.

I have stated for a long time that I would like to see the Taliban take over - but I think another good outcome will be ICBM technology in Pakistani hands. SUPARCO needs help. The US has, for too many decades utilized Pakistan's hatred for India to bribe Pakistan even when they are not doing what the US wants. the US needs to feel Pakistani heat. Of course the US could do its usual stupid thing and support terrorism against India if Pakistan starts going the way I have suggested but that is something we have to handle. We know damn well that both the US and Britain have long harbored Indian people who dislike India and they still keep them alive and healthy for use as needed. As long as Pakistanis get angrier and angrier at the US for paying off their army while the country sinks - it is an advantage for India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jul 2014 09:45

ArunK wrote:One more video -- slightly dated. Thought I would share. it is possible this has already been posted here before. But I liked listening to Jaswant Singh and Bruce Reidel on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SCIsq1B8ng

Bruce Reidel again on Pakistan --> He is promoting his book --> Deadly Embrace.

He states that in case of "another mass causality attack in the US, the centcom has 130 targets in Pakistan locked and ready"
bokwas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNi1AQB9tx0 - Part -1

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jul 2014 10:05

From the video linked by ramana above, watch 30 seconds from the link below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 9tx0#t=652

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 07 Jul 2014 10:37

http://www.nation.com.pk/national/06-Ju ... e-thievery

According to reports, unidentified terrorists planted a bomb outside a mosque in the Frontier Colony of the city. The bomb was connected to a mobile phone.
Fortunately, the thieves stole that mobile phone which saved the area from a blast. Later, the Bomb Disposal Squad (BDS) defused the bomb.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Jul 2014 10:40

ramana wrote:
ArunK wrote:One more video -- slightly dated. Thought I would share. it is possible this has already been posted here before. But I liked listening to Jaswant Singh and Bruce Reidel on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SCIsq1B8ng

Bruce Reidel again on Pakistan --> He is promoting his book --> Deadly Embrace.

He states that in case of "another mass causality attack in the US, the centcom has 130 targets in Pakistan locked and ready"
bokwas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNi1AQB9tx0 - Part -1

Sounds like an empty threat, USA will never attack Pakistan with 200 million population and huge diaspora. USA is scared of Pakistan.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 07 Jul 2014 12:37

shiv wrote:"The Blood Telegram" is a book that details how Nixon - who actually had great influence over Pakistan refused to pressure Pakistan to stop the genocide in East Pakistan - there is a famous handwritten note from Nixon telling his people not to put pressure on Yahya Khan.

Nixon is not only the worst President ever in US history (contrary to republican portrayal of Jimmy Carter) he is also a despicable human being. He and his genocidal Secretary of state Kissinger kissed chinese a$$ without fully safeguarding US interests or understanding the repercussions for US decades later. And in that process willingly condoned genocide of 3 Million Bengalis (hindus, muslims and christians) and turned a blind eye towards nuclear proliferation by Pakis.

Only when (not if) Paki dirty bombs get to the hands of talibunnies and explode over US interests (mainland US or outside), MSM in US will fully understand the damage done by that character, Nixon. That thug fully deserved the impeachment he got. Every time US media or fellows like McCain or Obama talk about Modi's past administrative failures in Godra, official Indian media should not waste time in calling out that Nixon and Kissinger have blood on their hands - blood of 3 Million innocents who were brutally raped and killed. India will never forget it. May be we should announce them as PnG and put them in some official Hall of Shame for their involvement in Bangladesh ethnic cleansing.

As for as India is concerned, - Kennedy was the most India friendly US President who genuinely was interested in forming good relations with India (but was spurned by Nehru). Dubya (Bush Jr) might be a close second, but he messed up US foreign policy and economy so bad that he probably hurt Indian and US interests even when he intended to help. However, unquestionably the most anti-Indian US President has been Nixon - he was probably 100x worse than Clinton during sanctions time.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jul 2014 13:37

Aditya_V wrote:
Sounds like an empty threat, USA will never attack Pakistan with 200 million population and huge diaspora. USA is scared of Pakistan.

Agree. People like Riedel would not say such things without purpose - it is meant merely to be psy-ops in which people who hear it are supposed to believe it and mend their ways accordingly. It is, as you say, an empty threat.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Jul 2014 19:18

From South Asia Terrorsim Portal

Uzbek Challenge

Tushar Ranjan Mohanty
Research Associate, Institute for Conflict Management

Security Forces (SFs) involved in the ongoing military operation, Zarb-e-Azb [Sword of the Prophet], in the North Waziristan Agency (NWA) of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), have so far killed a total of 391 alleged terrorists. 19 troopers have also lost their lives during the Operation that began at 01:30am [PST] on June 15, 2014. A total of 61 terrorist hideouts have been neutralized.

Reports suggest that the Operation has primarily targeted the Hafiz Gul Bahadur faction of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP -Hafiz Faction), which has just come out of the truce pact with the Government signed back in 2006, and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU). While the TTP-Hafiz Faction has been targeted because it has turned renegade, the IMU is being targeted because of its blatant claim to having attacked the Karachi Airport on June 8-9, 2014, in which at least 33 persons, including all ten attackers, were killed, as well as its recent record.

Claiming responsibility for the attack, the IMU posted a statement that read, "...This is revenge for the killing of civilians, migrant women and their children. This is revenge for the violence of the corrupt Pakistani Government." The statement signed by Usman Ghazi, IMU emir, concludes, "The jihad already in place in Afghanistan should be extended to Pakistan's territory as well. Jihad in Pakistan should be fought by the entire Muslim Ummah and not just a few people or groups." Pakistani Major General Rizvan Akhtar, speaking on the day of the attack, had claimed that there were Uzbeks among the suicide fighters in Karachi, and some reports claimed that most of the slain terrorists were Uzbeks. TTP had also claimed responsibility for the attack.

It was claimed that the attack on Karachi Airport was retaliation against the May 21, 2014, aerial attack by the military in NWA. At least 60 terrorists, mostly Uzbek, were killed in those attacks.

The Karachi Airport attack was not first of its kind in which direct involvement of Uzbek terrorists had been established. Prominent among such attacks were the following:

July 30, 2013: At least 24 persons, including 12 Policeman and four prisoners, were killed and nine others were injured when around 150 terrorists, including Uzbeks, stormed the Central Prison at Dera Ismail Khan in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) Province. More than 243 prisoners were set free. Police later re-arrested 48 prisoners.

December 15, 2012: Nine persons, including five terrorists and four civilians, were killed and another 40 were injured, when a group of terrorists, including Uzbeks, attacked Bacha Khan International Airport in Peshawar, KP.

April 15, 2012: Around 200 terrorists, including Uzbeks, stormed a prison in Bannu town in Bannu District of KP and freed 384 inmates, including one on death row for trying to assassinate former President General (Retd.) Pervez Musharraf. KP Home Secretary Azam Khan later disclosed that, out of the 384 prisoners who had fled the jail, 108 had voluntarily returned while another 35 had been arrested by law enforcement agencies.

May 22, 2011: 18 SF personnel were killed when four Uzbek terrorists orchestrated a suicide attack on the PNS Mehran at Shahrah-e-Faisal in Karachi, the provincial capital of Sindh. Two P3C-Orion surveillance aircraft of the Pakistan Navy were destroyed, while a third was damaged in the attack.

Though the IMU has declared no particular ideological hostility towards the Pakistan Army or Government, their continuous association with the TTP and al Qaeda fraternity, and the losses they have suffered during military operations, have pitted them against the state.

Even as Operation Zarb-e-Azb was launched, Pakistani authorities began to proclaim its 'success'. On June 16, 2014, an unnamed Pakistan intelligence official stated, "Up to 150 people were killed during the strikes early Sunday [June 15]. These strikes were carried out based on confirmed reports about the presence of Uzbek and other terrorists in the area." An Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) Press Release asserted that terrorists linked to the attack on Karachi Airport were present in the hideouts that had been bombed. Abu Abdur Rehman Almani, a key 'Uzbek commander', and alleged mastermind of the Karachi Attack, was killed in the first day of Operation Zarb-e-Azb. There has been no independent verification of these claims.

According to the Foreign Military Studies Office, a research and analysis centre for the US Army, the IMU was established by Tahir Yuldashev and Juma Namangani in 1998 in Uzbekistan, and declared jihad against the Governments of Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Their ultimate goal was to overthrow the secular government of President Islam Karimov and establish an Islamic caliphate in Uzbekistan. The IMU later established links with the Afghan Taliban as well as al Qaeda. After moving to Northern Afghanistan, following Uzbek Army raids on their bases, Yuldashev took an 'oath of allegiance' to Afghan Taliban chief Mullah Omar. Juma Namangani was killed in Afghanistan in November 19, 2001, while fighting for Kunduz town. His death left Yuldashev solely in command. The IMU managed to survive US air strikes after 9/11, although it was considerably weakened. Tahir Yuldashev successfully re-organised the group in the tribal areas of North and South Waziristan over subsequent years.

Having initially settled in South Waziristan, Yuldashev became "a star speaker" in local mosques. He adopted al Qaeda's agenda and turned the IMU into one of the strongest non-Arab al Qaeda groups. The IMU also established close ties with the TTP.

In 2007-08, with the backing of the Pakistan Army, pro-government TTP leader Mullah Nazir (the then South Waziristan TTP chief) started fight against IMU militants in South Waziristan Agency. During the period, at least 250 Uzbeks were killed and hundreds fled to NWA and Afghanistan.

On August 27, 2009, Tahir Yuldashev was killed in a US drone attack in South Waziristan. His 'deputy' Abu Usman Adil became new IMU head, but was also killed in a drone attack on April 29, 2012, in Miranshah, NWA. According to The Long War Journal, Adil augmented IMU's profile in Pakistan and Northern Afghanistan after Yuldashev's death and developed strong ties with TTP. After Adil's elimination, his 'second-in-command', Usman Ghazi took control of IMU, and currently heads the outfit.

After Mullah Nazir was killed in a US drone attack on January 2, 2013, Uzbek terrorists once again started regaining strength in SWA.

Based on its relations with TTP, IMU now has sanctuaries in the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan. Both terrorist groups have joined hands to launch deadly attacks in Pakistan. Worryingly, media reports indicate, more than 5,000 Uzbek terrorists from the IMU have taken shelter in the North and South Waziristan Agencies. Indeed, former Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) official, Asad Munir, tweeted on June 25: "Mosakai, a village in Mir Ali area of NWA had so many Uzbek, that the village was known as Uzbekistan."

As with past military operations against terrorist formations in Pakistan, sufficient prior warning was available, and a mass exodus of foreign, especially Uzbek, terrorists began before the start of Operation Zarb-e-Azb, creating the danger of these terrorists simply shifting to other parts of the country. Balochistan, which shares a porous border with the region, is under imminent threat. Naveed Khalid, a senior intelligence official based in Islamabad, conceded, "Our internal security wing . revealed that a large number of IMU terrorists have fled [North Waziristan] and reportedly entered Balochistan to hide among traders, merchants and labourers in Zhob and adjacent areas in the Province... We have intercepted several calls . which disclosed that the IMU has provided suicide bombers to Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP)-linked terrorists in Balochistan and they had planned new attacks on their targets." Another intelligence official, Ahed Khan, stated, "The TTP and the IMU have long been collaborating with each other and conducting joint terrorist operations. . They have carried out several attacks in Balochistan, targeting security forces, [other] Muslims and top government officials."

Balochistan Home and Tribal Affairs Secretary Akbar Hussain Durrani, however claimed, "Our forces are highly able to combat foreign terrorists in the region. All law enforcement agencies have been directed to keep an eye on those areas [containing a number of Tajiks and Uzbeks] to foil any expected terrorist activity. We have also deployed additional troops on the entry points in Balochistan close to ... Waziristan, and our bordering districts are under strict surveillance to ensure the checking of each individual crossing into the province." "As wth Quetta is a hub for Uzbeks and Tajiks, and thousands of these foreigners are living in and around the city," he informed. There are an estimated 70,000 Uzbeks in Pakistan.

Characteristic of past counter-terrorist operations in Pakistan, the present Operation Zarb-e-Azb has displaced large civilian populations, with Pakistan's Army relying overwhelmingly on aerial attacks, and using long range weapons, rather than genuinely engaging on the ground. The operations also left wide open spaces for terrorists to escape the area in the guise of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs), with a belated 'ground offensive' commencing on June 30, a full fifteen days after the start of the Operation. Reports indicate that, by July 4, the number of people displaced from NWA as a result of Operation Zarb-e-Azb had crossed 570,000, including 240,000 children. Meanwhile, a report titled, 'An Eyewitness Account of Pakistan's War in North Waziristan', published on June 26, 2014, observed, "We tried hard to probe the impact of Pakistani air strikes. In interviews with dozens of North Waziristan residents, including those in villages targeted by sorties, it became apparent that few militants were killed in the aerial bombing strikes, and most victims were civilians."

The IMU is another of Pakistan's favoured terrorist formations, at one time, integral to Islamabad's Afghan strategy, as were an array of other foreign terrorist groups. It has now gone renegade and turned on its one-time masters. While it may be forced to shift location from time to time as a result of the Army's reluctant Counter Terrorism (CT) operations, it has now demonstrated its capacities to strike with devastating impact virtually across the country, and has created a complex web of linkages with other terrorist formations across the AfPak region.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Jul 2014 19:36

Aditya_V wrote:
Sounds like an empty threat, USA will never attack Pakistan with 200 million population and huge diaspora. USA is scared of Pakistan.

The first part I agree, namely, US will not touch TSP. But the second part I am baffled, and DoCJi et.al are spearheading this argument, namely, US is scared of TSP. I am not saying you or DoCJi are wrong, its just that when I see the military power disparity between US and TSP on paper, I simply cannot fathom the scare factor. However, when I see the level of Guboing that RAPE indulge in towards their 3.5, especially US, and then of course the need for India TSP equal equal, I can a lot of reasons why US will not attack TSP, but not due to the scare factor.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jul 2014 19:52

CRamS wrote:I simply cannot fathom the scare factor.

"Personal incredulity" is not a valid explanation for the US's pathetic inability to get Pakistan to do anything despite paying it and its fear of putting a single boot on the ground in Pakistan - or even using a manned aircraft to do more decisive damage than those puny drones.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jul 2014 20:16

The many shades of anti-terror fight
Ayesha Siddiqa

The Pakistan Army announced launching of the second phase of its operation in North Waziristan on June 30 which means putting boats on ground. This development is meant as proof of the military’s intent to fight the menace of terrorism and Talibanisation in the country, especially in North Waziristan. Some among the fledgling, urban, upper middle class liberals have heaved a sigh of relief at this development, as this group had always supported tough military action against the Taliban. But the operation has still not managed to dispel the fears of those who believe the operation is more of a hogwash, mainly meant to attract approximately $300-million — this was made conditional by the American Congress on the Army launching an attack in North Waziristan. Some suspect that this is a temporary move to avenge the deaths of soldiers in the area.

For years the Army has showed reluctance to launch an operation in North Waziristan, a territory known as a favourite rest and recreation spot for the notorious Haqqani network which the Americans in particular find problematic. The Army’s main concern all along was to save the Haqqani network for a rainy day after post-U.S./NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Pakistan Army’s former chief, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani had said Pakistan did not want to control Afghan territory but would like to see a friendly regime in Kabul to minimise threats to the country’s security. Since the Haqqani network was viewed as that essential security, GHQ, Rawalpindi even struggled to get the group accepted as part of the Afghan endgame plan. However, this proposition did not seem acceptable to many stakeholders.

Reluctance to launch operation

But saving the network was probably one of the reasons that Gen. Kayani was reluctant to launch an operation. On June 30, the former DG, Inter-services Public Relations (ISPR) , the official PR agency of the military, Maj.Gen. (retd.) Athar Abbas claimed in a television interview to the BBC that the former Army chief was unable to implement a decision taken in 2010 to launch an operation in North Waziristan in 2011. He said it was the General’s own weakness. Notwithstanding the fact that Maj. Gen. Abbas was reputed to be part of the pro-Musharraf lobby in the GHQ and has his own axe to grind with Gen. Kayani who did not promote the General to three-star, the claim certainly tends to posit the new Army chief and his team as wanting to make a fresh start. In fact, the Army’s current DG ISPR, Maj. Gen. Asim Bajwa, told the media that the military would fight all kinds of terrorists including the Haqqani network.

But this is not an impression one gets from local journalists from North Waziristan. They complain that while the local populace was not warned about a possible operation and given time to relocate, those that the military wanted to save had moved out. The reference is to Mullah Gulbahadur and Sirajuddin Haqqani. Many militants are pushed across the border into Afghanistan. The Pakistan Army believes that it is now the responsibility of Kabul to clean up the area. More doubts have arisen about the operation after a visit to a major campsite in Bannu in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa for the internally-displaced people (IDP) from North Waziristan. According to journalist Taha Siddiqui, incoming IDPs, whose number has ballooned to about 5,00,000, are welcomed by Lashkar-e-Tayyaba’s Falah-e-Insaniyat Foundation (FIF), the Jamaat-e-Islami and Jaish-eMuhammad’s (JeM) Al-Rehmat Foundation, which seem to be the only welfare networks to have established camps in Bannu.

These militant outfits are present with their full ideological regalia aiming at preying on the physical, psychological and emotional vulnerabilities of the IDPs. Reportedly, JeM is using camps to raise human and other resources for Syria. Non-religious non-governmental organisations find it difficult to get approval to set up camp for the IDPs. The Army helps militant outfits set up their welfare infrastructure throughout the country, especially in natural disaster prone areas. This has strengthened Pakistan-based militant outfits which use such opportunities to enhance their support base and recruit people for various fronts. In any case, the Army seems to have kept its hands off what it considers as the “good Taliban.” The emphasis is on fighting “foreign terrorists,” mainly the Uzbeks, who conducted a major terrorist attack on Karachi airport in June this year. Furthermore, foreign terrorists are viewed as a new buzzword to get good ratings from the American government which naturally links it with al-Qaeda. However, North Waziristan is not the only place where Uzbeks are present. They can be found in South Punjab and Karachi where no police or military operation has taken place.

Kashmir factor

But Brigadier (retd.) Asad Muneer, a former Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) officer currently working as a military-approved national security commentator, argues otherwise. He believes that the operation indicates a fundamental shift in the military’s approach towards militancy. The military is determined to clean up its backyard. The operation, hence, is one for the long haul and would be conducted in phases. Once Waziristan is settled, the Army will attend to Pakistan-based militant groups who will be targeted at a later stage of the military offensive. Places like Bahawalpur in South Punjab, which serves as the stronghold and headquarters of JeM, will be cleaned up. Such claims are doubtful considering that such groups continue to draw support from the Army due to the common interest in Kashmir. According to one source in the government, the LeT and JeM have become more active on the Kashmir front. This was a strategy adopted by the LeT during the 1990s to endear itself to the military. However, the LeT is deployed on other fronts as well such as in Waziristan where it is engaged in fighting unfriendly Taliban groups. JeM, on the other hand, is deployed in Afghanistan.

Nor is any action being taken against various Taliban groups that reportedly continue to travel to Afghanistan through other tribal agencies. Many believe that the fundamental pattern of playing the good versus bad Taliban game persists. In that case, segments of society are deeply worried that such a half-baked plan may turn Pakistan unstable in the future.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 07 Jul 2014 21:08

anupmisra wrote:Now Your See Them, Now You Don't

Taliban cut hair and beards to flee army assault
“The same leaders came asking for trimming their beards and hair very short, saying that they were going to the Gulf and wanted to avoid problems at Pakistani airports,” Khan said.
The military has said it will target militants “of all hue and colour” but the scant resistance troops have encountered has led many to believe the insurgents fled before the offensive, limiting its effectiveness.
“It is clear that militants were aware that the offensive was coming before it started. Lots of them fled,” a Western diplomat told AFP.

Is operation zarb-e-azb a ploy by the TSPA to secure future flow of monies?

The gravy train is likely to end (or be substantially reduced) at the end of 2014. TSPA can claim they have been trying to eliminate extremists of all hues of green onlee by bombing empty huts and towns with unverified claims of 'n' number of extremists killed. However the extremists that fled and are now disguised as 'normal, civilized, moderate, liberal, secular' average Pakistani's. It will be hard for the Westerners to now diferentiate between the 'good' Pakistani and the 'bad' Pakistani in their midst! These guys will now become a worldwide problem.

If onlee Amrika had decided not to abandon the AfPak region, continued to assure Pakistan of it's insecurity regarding coalition support funds, given it drone technology, nuclear submarines, nuclear deal, solved core issue, etc. etc.; the extremists could have been contained and not become a worldwide problem. Pakistan too is a victim of extremists now mingled with the 'moderate, secular, liberal, well groomed' Pakistani RAPE!