People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

wen · Post by **wen** » 03 Jan 2011 08:11

sanjaykumar wrote:The world is sick of China's sob story over Taiwan, Tibet, Falun Gong, eastern Turkestan, Chinese catholic church, prisoner execution. And it is sick of drones abusing the free world's hospitality.

If you must know Indians recoil in horror at the Chinese and their culture. Perhaps you need to abuse their hospitality some more and set up more Confucius Institutes.

As an ancient civilisation I am sure you will understand why Indians are too polite to openly jeer at Chinese. But understand that China is dismissed as a land of rat eaters. Well okay Buick driving rat eaters. You got an image problem, bud. Kill a few more tens of millions of Chinese-the last time around did not make an adequate impression.

Such rather pitful lowly insults hardly affect any Chinese, so you can save your bitterness to yourself, don't need to show it off.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Jan 2011 08:14

^^^more propagandu.

Next you'll tell me there exists little censorship in PRC, that the govt has little to fear from open public criticism of its policies and performance from its own people. That the right to free expression, association and dissent are available to all.

And that in the event of arrest, detention, persecution by the cheeni state, the average chinese has recourse in law and fundamental right against the state in an independent judiciary. And so on.

OK. Maybe all that you are saying is true. Spare me the talk-down propagandu however. Occam's razor however tells me this scenario is much in doubt. And I'm rather comfortable with doubt and scepticism and opposing/clashing opinions etc than you probably imagine.

I have no problem admitting we have major talking heads in Yindia who yap away without thinking. They do because they can. And that is the point. You however, seem to have qualms admitting the natural flow of discourse, diversity and dissent characteristic of a free society. And that sir, is entirely your prerogative.

My last in this cheerful exchange.

/Have a nice day.

wen · Post by **wen** » 03 Jan 2011 08:17

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^more propagandu.

Next you'll tell me there exists little censorship in PRC, that the govt has little to fear from open public criticism of its policies and performance from its own people. That the right to free expression, association and dissent are available to all.

And that in the event of arrest, detention, persecution by the cheeni state, the average chinese has recourse in law and fundamental right against the state in an independent judiciary. And so on.

OK. Maybe all that you are saying is true. Spare me the talk-down propagandu however. Occam's razor however tells me this scenario is much in doubt. And I'm rather comfortable with doubt and scepticism and opposing/clashing opinions etc than you probably imagine.

I have no problem admitting we have major talking heads in Yindia who yap away without thinking. They do because they can. And that is the point. You however, seem to have qualms admitting the natural flow of discourse, diversity and dissent characteristic of a free society. And that sir, is entirely your prerogative.

My last in this cheerful exchange.

/Have a nice day.

Go to http://club.kdnet.net/list.asp?boardid=1, using a google-translator etc to translate some threads there, and see how they critize the governent.

The CCP can tolerant BBS like this, and you call this as brain-washing?

Your brain has been washed to much to accept the reality.

wen · Post by **wen** » 03 Jan 2011 08:21

The average Chinese know for sure what outside world looks like and know for sure that the pros/cons of democracy.

Thats why they mock the guys in China who scream for west-style democracy as JY(democrazy "elite") or dou-shi (funny democrazealots).

And unfornatuely, India is usually being used as a case to show why west-style democracy is not necessiliy what China need now.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Jan 2011 08:29

^^^I'd already said twas my last exchange but but but sri wen's touching concern for the uplift and enlightenment of us Yindians can't go unrewarded now, can it?

Wen, why do you care if India and Indians are poor and ignorant about how free and great and happy china is? Is it humanism? altruism that drives your heroic attempts on here to lecture us from atop the moral high ground? Just curious. Thanks.

wen · Post by **wen** » 03 Jan 2011 08:36

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^I'd already said twas my last exchange but but but sri wen's touching concern for the uplift and enlightenment of us Yindians can't go unrewarded now, can it?

Wen, why do you care if India and Indians are poor and ignorant about how free and great and happy china is? Is it humanism? altruism that drives your heroic attempts on here to lecture us from atop the moral high ground? Just curious. Thanks.

I simply want to correct some of the wrong impressions such as how Chinese are brainwashed/firewalled that many brainwashed people here tend to believe.

For instance, Chinese like me has travelled around the world for quite some time, in some of the highly developed west democracy countries.

And guess what?

The conclusion I can draw is:

1) China don't need west style democracy, at least for the moment, if ever.
2) China can surpass the west in about a generation (e.g. 20 years), althrough most of my Chinese frens critize me of being way to optimistic here, but geez, in 2000 I already predict China's GDP will surpass Japan's one by ~2010 when even some most optimistic Chinese then didnt believe it can be done before anytime earlier than 2030, and time proved I am correct.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 03 Jan 2011 08:40

When China were in india's current position, there was simply no Chinese scream for "being superpower in 20 years" or "being surpassed whatever country in 10 years"

Very incorrect. India's current GDP is about same as what China's was in 2004. And China was then not just boasting of being a Superpower, it had the pretensions of being the sole superpower then even above the US. The talk of G2 was kicking then. Moreover China was behaving like a snobby bully back then which India does not, however much you bleat we do. No Indian even talks about getting past China in the near immediate future, let alone the US. So it was the Chinese that were boastful and sure of their "superpowerdom" rather than the Indians.

In the eyes of quite some Chinese, India is still reviewed as a poor country which usually fails to achieve yet get a "boastful" ego.

In the light of the above, now you really want to know whats boastful and egoistic??

Ok here you go in your very own words:

Note the fact whereever China occupied, there is no dispute at all, where-ever there is some disputes, there is someone-else who occupied.

Kind like what is mine is mine and what is yours is subject to dispute, I am not implying China is a bully, but I guess you get my point here.

Note: A BULLY IS egoistic and boastful. Ask ANY psychologist. And China IS a Bully as you just said..yourself. So your Commie crapoganda on Indian claims of "superpowerdom" are hollow and false.

India seeks cooperative multipolarity in the world order and not some sole dominant position. But looking at the way you and your Govt interpret things it might end up way above what China does ultimately. All fascist Command based structures and economies fail. China may just be biting off more than it can chew with it's present system.

Fact is 99% media in India is self loathing and self flagellating. There may have been a 1% of stories with some hype to sell. But the stories that really sell in India are on corruption, political intrigue, drama and not some dreams of superpowerdom. The BJP lost the last major elections because the public sort of did'nt synch with the 'India Shining' slogans. So no need for the advice on what brainwahed CCPians think how boastful Indians are. My own experieince with common Chinese and Indians are..Indians have their feet much more firmly on the ground. They also don't mind washing their dirty linen in the national media under full glare. Something highly restricted in China.

Your's is NOT a free country. So neither you NOR your Govt know what Chinese people really are like. You think they love Fascism? Bullcrap! Your leaders don't have the guts to give power really to the people and let them elect leaders of thier own choosing. You're scared and afriad of groups like Falun Gong. India is not. Only bullies and boastful people with ego's behave like the PRC..so get in touch with reality. It's quite the opposite of what you think and assume.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 03 Jan 2011 08:47

The average Chinese know for sure what outside world looks like and know for sure that the pros/cons of democracy.

Thats why they mock the guys in China who scream for west-style democracy as JY(democrazy "elite") or dou-shi (funny democrazealots).

So if the PRC is so confident they've got complete public support, why does'nt it hold free and fair multi party representative elections? Truth is it's afraid the exact opposite may be true. The majority of Chinese would prefer to not be hostage to the fascist 1 party system. Thats why your Govt jails Nobel laureates who ask for more representation and bans their thought from news and internet channels. Thats why they run tanks on Students asking for democracy. Because they are afraid..really scared deep inside of the Truth. Scared that not 1% Tibetans will want to be a part of China. Scared that not 1% Uighers want to be part of China. Scared thier own people might prefer rights to fascism.

wen · Post by **wen** » 03 Jan 2011 08:54

harbans wrote:When China were in india's current position, there was simply no Chinese scream for "being superpower in 20 years" or "being surpassed whatever country in 10 years"

Very incorrect. India's current GDP is about same as what China's was in 2004. And China was then not just boasting of being a Superpower, it had the pretensions of being the sole superpower then even above the US. The talk of G2 was kicking then. Moreover China was behaving like a snobby bully back then which India does not, however much you bleat we do. No Indian even talks about getting past China in the near immediate future, let alone the US. So it was the Chinese that were boastful and sure of their "superpowerdom" rather than the Indians.

In the eyes of quite some Chinese, India is still reviewed as a poor country which usually fails to achieve yet get a "boastful" ego.

In the light of the above, now you really want to know whats boastful and egoistic??

Ok here you go in your very own words:

Note the fact whereever China occupied, there is no dispute at all, where-ever there is some disputes, there is someone-else who occupied.

Kind like what is mine is mine and what is yours is subject to dispute, I am not implying China is a bully, but I guess you get my point here.

Note: A BULLY IS egoistic and boastful. Ask ANY psychologist. And China IS a Bully as you just said..yourself. So your Commie crapoganda on Indian claims of "superpowerdom" are hollow and false.

India seeks cooperative multipolarity in the world order and not some sole dominant position. But looking at the way you and your Govt interpret things it might end up way above what China does ultimately. All fascist Command based structures and economies fail. China may just be biting off more than it can chew with it's present system.

Fact is 99% media in India is self loathing and self flagellating. There may have been a 1% of stories with some hype to sell. But the stories that really sell in India are on corruption, political intrigue, drama and not some dreams of superpowerdom. The BJP lost the last major elections because the public sort of did'nt synch with the 'India Shining' slogans. So no need for the advice on what brainwahed CCPians think how boastful Indians are. My own experieince with common Chinese and Indians are..Indians have their feet much more firmly on the ground. They also don't mind washing their dirty linen in the national media under full glare. Something highly restricted in China.

Your's is NOT a free country. So neither you NOR your Govt know what Chinese people really are like. You think they love Fascism? Bullcrap! Your leaders don't have the guts to give power really to the people and let them elect leaders of thier own choosing. You're scared and afriad of groups like Falun Gong. India is not. Only bullies and boastful people with ego's behave like the PRC..so get in touch with reality. It's quite the opposite of what you think and assume.

\

India's industrial output is nowhere near China's in 2004, basically comparing to China, india has an much "inflated" currency.

As for being free or not, few in China cares indian's freedom, many Chinese who have been to india, become quite arrogant towards india, more so than most of the Chinese who have not, with the help of the popularity of internet, their personal experiences in india become some common knowledge among all Chinese.

Thats why in any Chinese political BBS/forum, India, among a few other countries, are always used as a counter-example to west-style democracy.

wen · Post by **wen** » 03 Jan 2011 08:58

harbans wrote:
The average Chinese know for sure what outside world looks like and know for sure that the pros/cons of democracy.

Thats why they mock the guys in China who scream for west-style democracy as JY(democrazy "elite") or dou-shi (funny democrazealots).
So if the PRC is so confident they've got complete public support, why does'nt it hold free and fair multi party representative elections? Truth is it's afraid the exact opposite may be true. The majority of Chinese would prefer to not be hostage to the fascist 1 party system. Thats why your Govt jails Nobel laureates who ask for more representation and bans their thought from news and internet channels. Thats why they run tanks on Students asking for democracy. Because they are afraid..really scared deep inside of the Truth. Scared that not 1% Tibetans will want to be a part of China. Scared that not 1% Uighers want to be part of China. Scared thier own people might prefer rights to fascism.

Just like any single-party government, they just hate being challenged by others, thats their short-coming.

But now CCP bosses have figured out that most Chinese are actually on their side on many issues, thats why they now become more and more open and publized many Tibet/xinjiang and foregin incidents that they usually wouldnt being so open to public before.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 03 Jan 2011 09:49

There is a certain charm that one-dimensional Chinese propaganda has, albeit a very short lived one.

It is so deliciously earnest, so immune to logic and proportion.

Nothing quite like a fool's errand. They must have a Socratic debating school in Beijing where they turn out these specimens, they sure aren't very sophisticated. This particular drone has stated the same thing four times. I wonder how his handler will view his postings. Hope his folks back in the village are alright.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 03 Jan 2011 10:17

To answer the query, no I don't think every Indian is a Nehru.

Perhaps my posts are not worth following, but over time no one should be left in any doubt about the poor opinion I have perforce formed of aspects of Indian society.

From the slow pace of economic growth, to the gender bias, to the caste racism in the countryside, to the hyper-religiosity, to the corruption, to the filth in the cities.

But I don't expect to be sanctioned in any form by Government of India, its intelligence agencies and the people I may despise. Because India is bursting with malcontents much worse than I am and this damned society makes room for them all.

And you will note, neither India nor I have a problem with Chinese operatives using information such as the above as ammunition against India.

vina · Post by **vina** » 03 Jan 2011 10:56

basically comparing to China, india has an much "inflated" currency

Surely, this must take the cake.

Now India has a free floating market determined exchange rate (India does not have capital account convertibility I admit, but still, India's exchange rate is market determined) , while the CCP has firmly fixed the Chinse-USD rates at some arbitrary number, and then we have "Wen" (Grandson of Grandpa ?) telling us that the Indian currency is "inflated" !

Now if Chinese deliberately fix their currency at low rates, dont call other's currencies inflated! The correct thing is the Chinese in pursuit of exports and growth rates have an artificially fixed low currency rates.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Jan 2011 11:33

^^^ Marten Ji,

A tiny correction onree, please make it as the dlone and not drone.

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Jan 2011 12:29

wen wrote:The conclusion I can draw is:

1) China don't need west style democracy, at least for the moment, if ever.
2) China can surpass the west in about a generation (e.g. 20 years), althrough most of my Chinese frens critize me of being way to optimistic here, but geez, in 2000 I already predict China's GDP will surpass Japan's one by ~2010 when even some most optimistic Chinese then didnt believe it can be done before anytime earlier than 2030, and time proved I am correct.

Your absolutely right. But I would add another point to your two.

3) China needs another Nobel Peace Prize.

The last one brought the best out of your glorious CCP.

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Jan 2011 12:30

Pranav wrote:And India is a nation of Kalmadis and Nehrus? No point.

I always think that Indians have a great capacity for self-goals. And sad to say I always find that I'm correct.

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Jan 2011 12:36

wen wrote:As for being free or not, few in China cares indian's freedom, many Chinese who have been to india, become quite arrogant towards india, more so than most of the Chinese who have not, with the help of the popularity of internet, their personal experiences in india become some common knowledge among all Chinese.

Thats why in any Chinese political BBS/forum, India, among a few other countries, are always used as a counter-example to west-style democracy.

Wen,

Since you come from such a free and pluralistic society and land of Milk (even thought tainted with Melamine) and Honey (even if its synthetic), I must ask you this question.

And that is, which proxy server do you use? Because the Great Firewall of China which protects its innocent citizens from the ravages of Western style democracy, wouldn't allow you to log on to BRF.

By the way what's your rank? You seem to be in the category of drones who "know better english than 90 per cent of BRFites"!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Jan 2011 12:39

amit wrote:
Pranav wrote:And India is a nation of Kalmadis and Nehrus? No point.
I always think that Indians have a great capacity for self-goals. And sad to say I always find that I'm correct.

+1.

Saurabh_M · Post by **Saurabh_M** » 03 Jan 2011 13:53

wen wrote:India's industrial output is nowhere near China's in 2004, basically comparing to China, india has an much "inflated" currency.

As for being free or not, few in China cares indian's freedom, many Chinese who have been to india, become quite arrogant towards india, more so than most of the Chinese who have not, with the help of the popularity of internet, their personal experiences in india become some common knowledge among all Chinese.

Thats why in any Chinese political BBS/forum, India, among a few other countries, are always used as a counter-example to west-style democracy.

There are many Indians who have been to China . . . and many are still there. Here are their observations

Pros:
Chinese are very hardworking
Industrial capacity is among best in world

Cons:
Feedback system does not exist because in many industries management is not open to criticism and style of working. This is hidden because of the immense capacity, but its a basic flaw in society where the people in control never need to listen to those below them. This is arrogance. You will not find this in US, Japan, India or any other 'democratic' country.

FYI, we don't need Chinese to care about India.
No communist system can be superior to any democratic system . . . bottom line.
A developed India >>> A developed China. China is already there, India will be there soon

And are you so sure that India is nowhere close to China in 2004?
Compare the revenues
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Steel vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baosteel
In 2009 Tata Steel is ahead
Anyways, 2002/03 China is a fair description of India of today, irrespective of your views.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 03 Jan 2011 19:38

amit wrote:
Pranav wrote:And India is a nation of Kalmadis and Nehrus? No point.
I always think that Indians have a great capacity for self-goals. And sad to say I always find that I'm correct.

Look at the post I was responding to. Why call China "a nation of rat-eaters" while we ourselves have Kalmadis at the top and at the bottom, 20,000 farmers killing themselves each year.

Another thing, there is no point boasting about Indian democracy. Perhaps "EVM-ocracy" would be a more accurate term. So, better to get busy sorting out our own problems.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jan 2011 19:42

Pranav wrote:Look at the post I was responding to. Why call China "a nation of rat-eaters" while we ourselves have Kalmadis at the top and suicidal farmers at the bottom.

Another thing, there is no point boasting about Indian democracy. Perhaps "EVM-ocracy" would be a more accurate term.

+2. Another self goal!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jan 2011 19:55

wen wrote: India's industrial output is nowhere near China's in 2004, basically comparing to China, india has an much "inflated" currency.

As for being free or not, few in China cares indian's freedom, many Chinese who have been to india, become quite arrogant towards india, more so than most of the Chinese who have not, with the help of the popularity of internet, their personal experiences in india become some common knowledge among all Chinese.

Thats why in any Chinese political BBS/forum, India, among a few other countries, are always used as a counter-example to west-style democracy.

OK India is a lump of shit. but why are you so anxious to talk to citizens of the lump of shit? Why not talk to your prostitutes the Pakistanis or the great white man in America Rakshak forum?

Let me guess. You are so lonely that you want to talk to Indian crap eaters? China is a great country. Superpower. Will overtake America etc. Why are you so anxious to make us respect you. We are shit and we think you are one of us. We would have more respect for you if you did not have to talk to us lowly people. Any fool - including your prostitutes are better than us. So what's with your great need to spend time here? Sir. Why does crap worry you so much? Why do you demand respect from crap?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jan 2011 20:55

Pranav,

It's easy to score self goals bhaiya..

Much harder to take the fight to the other side and score on the other end.

Focus on the hard job, leave the easy part alone.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 03 Jan 2011 21:10

Pranav wrote: Look at the post I was responding to. Why call China "a nation of rat-eaters" while we ourselves have Kalmadis at the top and at the bottom, 20,000 farmers killing themselves each year.

Another thing, there is no point boasting about Indian democracy. Perhaps "EVM-ocracy" would be a more accurate term. So, better to get busy sorting out our own problems.

Self flagellation.

When will it ever end?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 03 Jan 2011 21:11

Take it this way - K*************** et all are SOB's but they are our SOB's. I personally feel that we do not want to hear gratuitous outpourings of self-righteous nations or intellectuals from outside of India - telling us how corrupt, or retrogressive, or bad we Indians are. I have always criticized such lambasts be they from self-made Indians in Germany ashamed of India or from foreign academics who keep mum about their own stupendous heritage of national corruptions and atrocities that lie at the base of their prosperity, or even continuing corruption and illegal international activities driven by profits.

It is only we who have the right to lambast or fry our own SOB's. If outsiders try to do this, we know what they are doing it for - to enhance their own governments and regimes interests against India. Chinese should start criticzing their own government and party's monumental corruption - build up a track record of doing that first - and then come here and criticize Indian corruption.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Jan 2011 21:23

brihaspati wrote:I personally feel that we do not want to hear gratuitous outpourings of self-righteous nations or intellectuals from outside of India - telling us how corrupt, or retrogressive, or bad we Indians are. I have always criticized such lambasts be they from self-made Indians in Germany ashamed of India or from foreign academics who keep mum about their own stupendous heritage of national corruptions and atrocities that lie at the base of their prosperity, or even continuing corruption and illegal international activities driven by profits.

Somebody we should know about?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 03 Jan 2011 21:28

brihaspati wrote:.... Chinese should start criticzing their own government and party's monumental corruption - build up a track record of doing that first - and then come here and criticize Indian corruption.

Well said!!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 03 Jan 2011 23:33

RajeshA wrote:
brihaspati wrote:I personally feel that we do not want to hear gratuitous outpourings of self-righteous nations or intellectuals from outside of India - telling us how corrupt, or retrogressive, or bad we Indians are. I have always criticized such lambasts be they from self-made Indians in Germany ashamed of India or from foreign academics who keep mum about their own stupendous heritage of national corruptions and atrocities that lie at the base of their prosperity, or even continuing corruption and illegal international activities driven by profits.
Somebody we should know about?

http://www.mindtree.com/subrotobagchi/m ... gly-woman/ This would be a starting example.
I actually meant Mohan Murthy, former Europe Director, CII, and lives in Cologne, Germany.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/201 ... 300900.htm

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Jan 2011 00:11

Vivek K wrote:
brihaspati wrote:.... Chinese should start criticzing their own government and party's monumental corruption - build up a track record of doing that first - and then come here and criticize Indian corruption.
Well said!!

If you talk to a Panda overlord he would laugh at this thought.

Everything they do is to demonstrate the superiority of their 'method', to the world and most importantly their people. Everything that happens in Panda land, from the Olympic games to the Shanghai Skyline to the HSR projects is for this purpose only. Any benefit to the people is purely accidental.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 04 Jan 2011 01:04

We can thrash China's leadership, system, regime, for corruption as much as we want because we thrash our own country even more. The Chinese posters should prove that they have a similar culture of thrashing their own government, leaders and functionaries for corruption and other stuff at the level we Indians do. Then we just might agree to listen to their ramblings against Indian corruption.

As for western nations or westerners preaching on corruption, maybe we should start exploring the BPI, and see what goes under "consultancy fees" from slush funds under their multinationals, and why such things are free from monitoring if the activities are directed at so-called developing nations. OT.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jan 2011 01:05

brihaspati garu,

thanks for the info. For a second, I thought, you're mad at me!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 04 Jan 2011 01:08

Nah! you are a co-pilgrim - sharing a vision and a journey [slightly different prayags in aim though]. Same rule applies. If I had to I would bash in private! You would be our ****!

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Jan 2011 01:22

To preach only when enlightened line of argument is a primary assumption of civilised men. China has not learned that yet. The West is learning that lesson finally after 300 years of the most bestial societies.

India is not where China was in 2002, China's longevity, primary school education, immunisation rates, maternal mortality, caloric intake were all superior. This, more than the Shanghai skyline, truly shames India.

There is huge reluctance on the part of Indians and westerners to examine diet and its role in shaping mind and society. If one word summarises all that is Indian civilisation (and Jewish), it is diet.

China and India are two polar opposites as revealed thereby. In India the hallmark of culture is what one puts in one's mouth. The Chinese are under no such restrictions (or illusions).

One of the major exports of the hog farming ares of Canada are anuses and rectum parts of the pig. Anus munching is prized in China.

Gandhi stated how we treat the cow (animals) reflects our humanity. In North Eastern China they put dogs in bags and beat them with sticks-the fear and pain release adrenaline that tenderises the meat-also highly prized.

is it any wonder that Wen eulogises the greatness of China while I lament the excrescences of India

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Jan 2011 02:04

China 'in nuclear power advance'

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 04 Jan 2011 02:26

To put in a hisotical perspective, British criticized Indian rulers severely, often calling them greedy and violent. It struck me as odd when I questioned why they had no such words to describe their own monarch, who after all, and quite obviously, was more greedy since he/she sent its young men to fight/kill/die to get more money/land from India, a nation far away and one which attacked it. Then it occured to me that these cricitcism had no basis in any real empathy or adherence to any humanist principles.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Jan 2011 09:03

is it any wonder that Wen eulogises the greatness of China while I lament the excrescences of India

Err..but Wen Says the exact opposite. He boasts China never did the superpower talk in 2002 or 2004 while Indians always boasted. But what you said is quite well put and puts the Indian perspective in it's correct frame. Thats what i too mentioned that 90 plus % of Indian media is self flagellating and not hyping " superpowerdom". I haven't ever met an Indian who talked of being a sole dominant "superpower". I met Chinese who did so. For a country whose GDP in 2004 is what India's is now and who have not as yet managed to eliminate poverty..it's completely boastful, egoistic and revolting to hear them lecture on India's poor. If the India Shining slogan got a kick in the back from Indian voters, CPCs China Shining seems to do well with the drones..the irony of their claims. If only they could see.

BTW what many fail to see is Western Rennaissance and Democracy does owe a lot to India. Western thought, specially the top Western Philosophers that were instrumental in change of thought in Europe, borrowed heavily from India and acknowledged that quite openly. The charter of Universal rights for humans does resound the spirit of Sanatan Dharma of an Indic thought that is inclusive and not exclusive like Islamic, Christian and Fascist charters like those of the CPC. I hear now people beginning to say that it is not India thats beginning to look like the West, it's the West thats becoming more like India. Even in the last 40 years, the West has become more plural, more democratic..Like India and not the other way. Wen has to know India was more democratic than the US in 1947 and 1970. I wonder if he knows why. South Africa may have had fantastic infrastructure during it's apartheid years but it was a pathetic regime. I wonder if the likes of Wen would like to live like the Blacks did in SA and have 3 meals a day or have 2 simple ones with freedom and self respect. But the choice is Wens and ofcourse the average Chinese's if he or she is allowed by Wen and other comrades to make one.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Jan 2011 10:00

The term for Wen's declaration is the humble boast-boastful it is.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Jan 2011 10:11

sanjaykumar wrote:One of the major exports of the hog farming ares of Canada are anuses and rectum parts of the pig. Anus munching is prized in China.

This explain Chinese love affair with Poaks!!
Like they say , one is know the company one keep. China's known friend Poakanistan and NOKO
are not exactly the shinnine beacon of human life. Since china has pissed almost all the civilized Asian countries, they will soon be exposed as Biggest Buddhus masquerading as Wise men by keeping quiet. Now they have opend their mouth and removed all the doubts.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 04 Jan 2011 10:13

Remember the old story of Ramayan when vishwamitra and vashishtha were performing yajnas the rakshas used to throw bones and other un-yajna material in the yajna to disrupt the yajna efforts repeatedly.

the appointed/masked/free posters of that land try to do the same thing as above to disrupt our yajna. they are just like present day congi-dhongi who try to prop up non-issues to deviate people from real issues.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Jan 2011 10:22

They provide the occasion to clarify Indic memes, much as a certain Pashtun hill tribal recently tried to disturb the penance of Brahmins (learned ones).

Some of us used that occasion as a teachable moment, for the onlookers of this arena.

I certainly don't write for drones-their English is improving but let us say my economic style won't win econiums from them.