Bharat Rakshak

QCD - Glashow Wienberg and Salam or GWS theory of existence of a quark called charm.

babaji reporting big action by IA/Arty in napakistan...

manjgu wrote:babaji reporting big action by IA/Arty in napakistan...

Really don't think a forum like BRF should be giving any credence to news from such sources.

Nihat wrote:

manjgu wrote:babaji reporting big action by IA/Arty in napakistan...

Really don't think a forum like BRF should be giving any credence to news from such sources.

ANI
@ANI
Indian Army: Indian forces cause heavy damages and casualty to Pakistan after two Indian soldiers and one civilian were killed in ceasefire violation by Pakistan Army in Tangdhar sector (Jammu and Kashmir) today.

manjgu wrote:babaji reporting big action by IA/Arty in napakistan...

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
As per my pigeon in PoK , Local media of neelum valley is reporting 26 civilians casualties. Exact no of Pak Army casualties are not available but possibility of heavy casualties.There is chaos everywhere in Neelum Valley.

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
#BREAKING
Surgical strikes done in PoK last night. More details to follow

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
7 Terrorist camps were targeted by Indian Army with Heavy artillery and MBRLs in which 2 were 30 kilometer inside the PoK.

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
#BREAKING
More than 50 tertorists killed in these operations of Indian Army, Huge number of Pakistani soldiers also killed

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
Pak Army is shocked after Indian Army operations inside PoK & lost of their more than 50 strategic assets (Terrorists). @OfficialDGISPR is preparing speech to hide casualties and blame Indian Army for targeting civilians. He will not tell about #Mandal and #Zabri post of PakArmy.

So, as per Babaji, our boys opened up our stocks of MBRLs? Wow, that's escalation Usually, the LOC/IB sees firing, mortars, sniper fire, artillery shells & duels. I hope the MBRLs came out on tops

More pigs are turning into bacon:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... gX1TM.html
Five Pakistani soldiers killed in Indian retaliatory firing along the LoC
The Indian retaliation came after unprovoked firing by the Pakistan military in Tangdhar sector in a bid to push a group of militants into Jammu and Kashmir from the Pakistani side, the sources said.
Oct 20, 2019 13:52 IST
Press Trust of India
New Delhi
Five Pakistani Army men were killed in retaliatory firing by the Indian Army in Tangdhar sector along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir, official sources said on Sunday.
Two Indian Army personnel also lost their lives in Pakistani firing in the area, they said.
The Indian retaliation came after unprovoked firing by the Pakistan military in Tangdhar sector in a bid to push a group of militants into Jammu and Kashmir from the Pakistani side, the sources said.
.....
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/army ... 191020.htm
Army attacks 4 terror camps in PoK with artillery guns
October 20, 2019
The Indian Army on Sunday used artillery guns to target terrorist camps in Pakistan occupied Kashmir which have been actively trying to push terrorists into Indian Territory.
Four launch pads in the Neelam valley of PoK were targeted and fatalities have been reported, sources said.
This comes after an unprovoked ceasefire violation was started by the Pakistani side to push infiltrators into the Indian side, according to sources.
Two Indian soldiers and a civilian were killed in firing by Pakistan Army in Tangdhar sector of Kupwara in Jammu and Kashmir.
......
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 672002.cms
Indian Army causes heavy damage to Pakistan side after 2 soldiers, 1 civilian killed in cross border firing
The Pakistan Army, in the unprovoked ceasefire violation, had targeted civilian areas killing one civilian and injuring three others in the area.
ANI|Updated: Oct 20, 2019,
Kupwara:Indian Army on Sunday inflicted heavy damages and casualty on the Pakistan side after two Indian soldiers and a civilian were killed in ceasefire violation by Pakistan Army in Tangdhar sector of Kupwara.
"Indian Forces caused heavy damages and casualty to Pakistan after two Indian soldiers and one civilian were killed in ceasefire violation by Pakistan Army in Tangdhar sector," an Indian Army spokesperson said.
......
Gautam

Looks like we are not differentiating anymore between pigs and pigs in dress. I think that is the right approach on the escalation ladder.

Currently, the LOC seems to be very hot Multiple sources confirming what Babaji has been saying.

Firstpost: Army attacks terror launch pads in PoK with artillery guns, Pakistan army accuses India of targeting civilians to 'justify false claims'

Swarajya: Stunning New Details Emerge In Indian Army’s Major Artillery Strike Targeting Terror Launch Pads In PoK

Swarajya: Indian Army Destroys Four Terror Launch Pads Inside PoK, At Least 4-5 Pakistan Army Soldiers Also Killed

@bababanaras
2h2 hours ago
More
When more than 3000 shells of 155 mm Bofors Gun land around, the person loses his mental balance.
Same thing is happening with Paki Generals and @peaceforchange .
They are unable to understand what has happened.
Just Enjoy the game of Indian Army.


@bababanaras
50m50 minutes ago
More
#Update

After briefing to Defence Minister, Army Chief called NSA and share details of Indian Army operations in PoK in which more than 100 terrorists and Pak Army regulars were killed last night.
NSA will brief current situation og LoC to Prime Minister soon.


@bababanaras
15m15 minutes ago
More
#BigUpdate
According 2 #ArmyIntelligence PakArmy is planning an artillery attack on IA brigade headquarter Poonch tonight to revenge killing of more than 100 terrorists & PA regulars last night.
IA has given free hand 2 go any extant 2 teach d lesson 2 PA in case of misadventure

The only way the army can estimate casualties from an arty strike (assuming there were none of our SF around to observe), is from radio intercepts. These would report Pak Army/ rangers casualties, but not terrorists & civilians. May be technically correct that INITIAL Pak army dead were 6-10 (Current estimate of CoAS ) + a lot more terrorists. Arty would typically kill a lot more people than a surgical strike with infantry held weapons, or an air strike with smart munitions.

Seems to me that we got the intel because terrorists had been cooped up in their launch pads for some time, unable to cross the LOC - sooner or later they would reveal signs of their presence. This is despite pressure on them to cross - partly to destroy our narrative on 370 and because snow will block the infiltration routes in north Kashmir after Diwali.

I would like some UAV feed been made public of these strikes.

Needless to say, Pak will try to repeat the same on our side, allowing us to lay nice little trap for their UAVs and allow counter battery fire from us.

Overall our strategy seems to be working. Target Pak & terror positions consistently, keeping PA unbalanced and disrupting their infiltration. It allows us to bleed PA hard and punish it without having a full fledged war.

Guys, I think we have used more than artillery guns, we use them all the time, so such results should have been observed long time back and frequently. But the scale indicates more than just guns, read somewhere pinaka were used. Although would have liked smerch to clean up 67 hectares of land.

nam wrote:I would like some UAV feed been made public of these strikes.

Needless to say, Pak will try to repeat the same on our side, allowing us to lay nice little trap for their UAVs and allow counter battery fire from us.

Overall our strategy seems to be working. Target Pak & terror positions consistently, keeping PA unbalanced and disrupting their infiltration. It allows us to bleed PA hard and punish it without having a full fledged war.

The battle of attrition across the LoC will also help them get bankrupt faster. Apart from the costs of ammo etc, Pak army will oppose any small attempt at financial reform.

Deans wrote:The battle of attrition across the LoC will also help them get bankrupt faster. Apart from the costs of ammo etc, Pak army will oppose any small attempt at financial reform.

I am so for 5 year high intensity attrition warfare on LC with the following:

1. by inducting long range sensor & detection of Pak position/camps
2. long range, high intensity 155MM strikes,
3. Keeping PAF on constant CAP by flying in IAF formation towards LC (coupled with IA artillery). Need to bleed airframe hours of those F16 & AMRAAM.

This is the right time, given the state of Pak economy.

The timing and Intel seem impeccable. Pakis were biding their time for infiltrating terrorists until the FATF deadline of Oct 18tth passed. They got their jihadi ducks in a row err...launch pads trying to push them in after Oct 18th.

We seem to have anticipated it, collected good ground level Intel and executed a massive pre-planned retaliatory strike once they committed a CFA. This is not a simple 4 bullets for 1 bullet type reactive retaliation we did earlier.

By making public the scale of the retaliation and the damages we are forcing Pukis into a corner. They cannot swallow it and fight it out on Twitter. They would need to retaliate to demonstrate their relevance which will invite even larger retaliation from India (likely pre planned as well).

This may mark the beginning of a new strategy and not a one off operation. The strategy seems to be designed to drag Pukis to a long drawn out fight just below the threshold of an all out war. But that may not be all. We will see the situation intensify over the next few months until some goals are met - both tactical and strategic. Don't want to speculate further.

More details from MOD re #IndianArmy #FireAssault in #NeelumValley PoK.
40 Pak firesp bases, OPs MMG nests engaged by HMG, Anti-mtrl wpns, ATGM, Arty.
Later, 1st post Kargil #ArtyFireAssault (155mm & 214mm PINAKA) lchd ~40km in PoK targeting Terror launchpads.
Hy Cas expected.

https://twitter.com/RaveenKr/status/118 ... 65697?s=19

DD is flashing pics from what seems intel collected prior to the strike with several PA regulars in fatigues and irregulars. Also, some night vision + FLIR footage of impact on structures. Defo seems like Para SF and more than arty is involved.

schinnas wrote:The timing and Intel seem impeccable. Pakis were biding their time for infiltrating terrorists until the FATF deadline of Oct 18tth passed. They got their jihadi ducks in a row err...launch pads trying to push them in after Oct 18th.

We seem to have anticipated it, collected good ground level Intel and executed a massive pre-planned retaliatory strike once they committed a CFA. This is not a simple 4 bullets for 1 bullet type reactive retaliation we did earlier.

By making public the scale of the retaliation and the damages we are forcing Pukis into a corner. They cannot swallow it and fight it out on Twitter. They would need to retaliate to demonstrate their relevance which will invite even larger retaliation from India (likely pre planned as well).

This may mark the beginning of a new strategy and not a one off operation. The strategy seems to be designed to drag Pukis to a long drawn out fight just below the threshold of an all out war. But that may not be all. We will see the situation intensify over the next few months until some goals are met - both tactical and strategic. Don't want to speculate further.

If I had to guess, I would speculate that we moved one of our arty divisions to the LoC after 5 Aug to ensure that if it came to an arty duel across the LOC, we would have more guns. Moreover, Pak, the self proclaimed guardian of the oppressed KMs in Kashmir cant cause heavy civilian casualties on our side - as it is recent killings of civilians by terrorists seem to be turning public mood against them.

Now that cellphones have been restored (enabling tip-offs) and the apple orchards will no longer be hiding places, I think the next phase will involve flushing out those terrorists who are hiding in the valley.

Still there are estimated 200 to 300 terrorists in the valley. Until their number is brought down close to zero, it's too early for normalcy to return.

Understanding Pakistan | Tilak Devasher

@bababanaras
2h2 hours ago
More
#BigBreaking
As per local sources,Hizbul Mujahidin Commander Shamsher Mohammad Khan also killed in Indian Army Artillery strikes across LoC in NeelumValley of PoK.
He was leading a group of 40 terrorists ready to infiltrate in Kashmir.He was in same terrorist camp,destroyed by IA
‏

@bababanaras
2h2 hours ago
More
The camp has been completely destroyed. There is no chance to survive anyone who is staying here. As per sources, Shamsher Mohammad Khan was seriously injured and later he died in CMH Muzaffarabad.

Nihat wrote:

manjgu wrote:babaji reporting big action by IA/Arty in napakistan...

Really don't think a forum like BRF should be giving any credence to news from such sources.

What do you mean by "such sources"? What, in your opinion, makes BB unacceptable? In the past, in spite of some exaggerations/inaccuracies, his reports have proven accurate in their general thrust (much more so than any DDM reports). The accuracy of his General Election predictions was phenomenal.

BB's chai-walas have a better record than DDM's reporter-walas.

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/indi ... 191021.htm
India slams Pak for stopping postal mail service
October 21, 2019 15:58 IST
India on Monday slammed Pakistan for unilaterally stopping postal mail service between the two nations, saying the move was in contravention of international norms.
Union Minister Ravi Shankar Prasad said Pakistan resorted to the move without giving any prior notice to India.
.....
Gautam

schinnas wrote:Still there are estimated 200 to 300 terrorists in the valley. Until their number is brought down close to zero, it's too early for normalcy to return.

schinnasji, the lack of normalcy in valley is not just due to these 300 armed terrorists...it is also due to a lot of unarmed potential or wannabes ..valley folks are radicalized to the same level as pakis ...a pokharan summer camp and perhaps a show of Nag fire in the summer to distinguish a tank with ambient atmosphere using IIR seeker has become must for many of them after papa 2 closed..

Pls no ji for me. Agree that there is high radicalization but these 300 are willing to drop everything and make this their mission at the expense of risking their lives. That makes them more dangerous.

The rest can be de radicalised or made to see reason when they realize that it's the only way forward. These 300 give them hope of an alternate possibility which needs to be done away with.

For last 15-20 years, we have been hearing about 300-400 terrorists either waiting to cross the LOC or already inside J&K just before winters set in.
Like 90000000000000 Indian troops in the valley, There are always X number of terrorists around the corner. The number is always in the range of 300-500 and never more or less.

I think SF have gamed this whole thing very well and keep 72 Houris busy on daily basis.

Clashes between Police and activities of Pro indipenden kashmir org peoples national Alliance #PNA during a march toward #AJK Assembly many Protesters and police men injured. In #Muzaffrabad the capital of #Pakistan Administered #Kashmir
https://twitter.com/Peacef_Warrior/stat ... 4227680258

Vikas wrote:For last 15-20 years, we have been hearing about 300-400 terrorists either waiting to cross the LOC or already inside J&K just before winters set in.
Like 90000000000000 Indian troops in the valley, There are always X number of terrorists around the corner. The number is always in the range of 300-500 and never more or less.

I think SF have gamed this whole thing very well and keep 72 Houris busy on daily basis.

We kill 200 to 300 terrorists a year and there sees to be similar amount of replenishment either within Kashmir or from PoK. The estimates have come down from 500 to under 300 now. We need to bring it down to low double digits. Critical mass starts when there are more than few dozen criminals.

X Posted on the P E S W Thread

Work behind the headlines - Arifa Noor

THE Financial Action Task Force’s meetings are bookended by much hysteria within and outside Pakistan. Grey list and black — and now our next-door neighbours are discovering shades of grey where none existed earlier. So where the Asia Pacific Group (APG) had also reportedly ‘found’ a grey list to add Pakistan to, the latest FATF meeting led one neighbouring media outlet to ‘discover’ a dark grey list. Soon enough, there will be a charcoal grey or misty grey list for Pakistan’s convenience or inconvenience.

Read : Pakistan escapes FATF blacklist, but gets warning

But the sensationalism is unfortunate, for it draws attention away from the painstaking process the country needs to go through to come off the list. Earlier this month, an APG report was released on the progress Pakistan had and hadn’t made. It was compiled by a number of experts who visited the country last year from Oct 8 to 19.

The 200-page report makes for tedious reading but it shows that FATF objectives are not limited to laws and their implementation but also to the capacity to improve our law-enforcement agencies and ensure convictions; the use of alternative methods where convictions are not possible and spreading awareness and having rules for fields which currently function without any.

This will take time and work. For instance, the report points out that while there may be national coordination among the various law-enforcement agencies there is little cross-CTD (counterterrrorism departments which exist at the provincial level) or cross-provincial coordination. So, the FIA hardly coordinates with the Punjab CTD, for example, or the Financial Monitoring Unit (responsible for collecting and analysing reports of suspicious transactions generated by banks and other institutions) does not coordinate with provincial CTDs. Hence, the provincial CTDs can only access information available to the FMU with the court’s permission but cannot do so during an inquiry..

The CTDs’ capacity across the provinces varies greatly, with Punjab having done the most to build capacity. This means that the latter has the most understanding of terrorism financing (TF). For example, the report indicates that in 2018, the Punjab CTD requested the FMU for information on 26 occasions, and the Sindh CTD only once. There are no figures for KP or Balochistan, presumably because their CTDs didn’t send any requests to the FMU. It seems that apart from Punjab, the other CTDs tend to focus on the security aspect of terrorism — “...the use of financial investigations in TF investigations is very limited”.

The report argues that law-enforcement agencies cannot differentiate between a terrorist act and terrorism financing and how there is little effort to investigate the funding of terrorist acts across provincial borders. This limited understanding of terrorism financing is also revealed by figures in the report. Of the suspicious transaction reports analysed by the FMU, only 5.5pc were passed on to the relevant authorities as related to terrorism or terrorism financing. In comparison, 23pc were suspected of being related to tax evasion and 9.5pc to corruption.

Of equal concern is an issue which has been highlighted time and again — the capacity of law-enforcement agencies to successfully prosecute and ensure convictions. This is brought home by some of the statistics in the report. The figures provided for the last five years show that ANF, FIA, FBR and NAB were able to ensure only one conviction for money laundering; of 161 prosecutions, ANF was able to secure nil convictions; FIA also prosecuted 175 cases to secure no conviction; NAB managed one out of four and FBR zero out of 14.

The report states: “One conviction is not consistent with Pakistan’s risk profile … the collection of insufficient evidence, ineffective use of investigative tools, the delays at trial stage, and the low levels of awareness … of the offence by the judiciary are the main grounds for the disproportion among the figures of investigation, prosecution and conviction as well as not achieving a reasonable conviction rate.”

The record on terrorism financing is no better. Overall, the country has registered 228 terrorism-financing cases in five years and convicted 58 individuals. All this was done at the provincial level.

Apart from the convictions, the provincial CTDs have confiscated over $100,000 over five years. However, it is suggested that this amount is not impressive considering the extent of the problem in Pakistan. But the report notes a commitment to fighting terrorism and how 30pc of terrorism-financing cases were registered between March and October 2018.

The problem though is not just one of the state’s capacity; it is also about the absence of knowledge in society.

Another issue highlighted by the report is the lack of awareness about terrorism financing or money laundering in sectors other than banks. Here it talks specifically of non-banking financial institutions such as currency exchanges or insurance firms as well as designated non-financial businesses and professions (DNFBP) which can include real estate, gems and precious metals. These two sectors, according to the report, can be used for both money laundering and terrorism financing but those involved in the two categories, especially the second one, have no awareness of the issue.

So, for instance, where banks have rules and regulations in place to vet those who want to open accounts and the FMU has been established to raise a red flag on suspicious transactions, few of the latter are reported by other sectors.

According to the breakdown provided in the report, up to June 2018, commercial banks filed over 70pc of the suspected transaction reports with the FMU; exchange companies in one category filed 25pc while DNFBP filed 0pc. This shows that the issue is not as simple as having laws in place but also requires raising awareness and changing the way private-sector companies work.

There is an equally lengthy section on charities, or what the report calls non-profit organisations, and the absence of laws and capacity to monitor these or their misuse.

Indeed, the report simply underlines the enormity of the task ahead. Much work and patience is going to be needed. Politicising or sensationalising the issue is not going to help.

Cheers

Pakistan's nuclear proliferation in news again amid Turkey's quest for nukes - Chidanand Rajghatta, ToI

Wonder what pak is expecting from turki, KSA used to shower plenty of $$ on pakis, which their fouj used for jihad and setting up their factories. turki has neither any $$ to spare nor any advanced military tech.

Karthik S wrote:Wonder what pak is expecting from turki, KSA used to shower plenty of $$ on pakis, which their fouj used for jihad and setting up their factories. turki has neither any $$ to spare nor any advanced military tech.

this is khaylai pullao( mughlai style). this is probably just a face saver for Immy to show that he has international support. it is good for us if this pisses of Arabs even more.

not sure how true this is but Tarek Fatah tells a story of how turkey sent a shipload of WW1 junk to pakis during the 65 war.

pakis would be happy if anyone sends a ship load of stones to pelt..

Cheers

pankajs wrote:Understanding Pakistan | Tilak Devasher

We need to keep an eye on Tilak Devasher. He is a very sharp guy and always has great analysis of Pakistan.

X Posted on the Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion Thread

Pakistan must dump terror for talks with India: US - Chidanand Rajghatta | TNN

WASHINGTON: The foundation of any successful dialogue between India and Pakistan is based on Pakistan taking sustained and irreversible steps against militants and terrorists in its territory, a key administration official told US lawmakers on Tuesday, amid expressions of deep concern and sharp criticism during a Congressional hearing over New Delhi’s handling of the human rights situation in the Kashmir Valley.

In written testimony presented at a hearing on human rights in South Asia, Alice Wells, the US assistant secretary for the region, while welcoming Pakistan PM Imran Khan’s “recent unambiguous statement that terrorists from Pakistan who carry out violence in Kashmir are enemies of both Kashmiris and Pakistan,” nevertheless asserted that “Pakistan’s harboring of terrorist groups like Lashkar-eTaiba and Jaish-e-Muhammed, which seek to foment violence across the Line of Control, is destabilising, and Pakistani authorities remain accountable for their actions.”

“We believe that direct dialogue between India and Pakistan, as outlined in the Shimla Agreement, holds the most potential for reducing tensions. Restarting a productive bilateral dialogue requires building trust, and the chief obstacle remains Pakistan’s continued support for extremist groups that engage in cross-border terrorism, ” Wells said in testimony submitted to the House subcommittee, where several lawmakers sought to discern the administration’s policy while expressing concern about both the human rights situation in the region and the geopolitical aspects of the issue.

Although the hearing was purportedly on “Human rights in South Asia, ” questions from lawmakers, reflecting complaints brought to them by their Kashmiri constituents, centered most on the situation in Kashmir Valley. Several lawmakers, including Washington state’s Pramila Jayapal and Virginia’s Abigail Spanberger, questioned Wells and her counterpart from the human rights bureau Robert Destro about the abnormal situation in the Valley, including alleged detention of children, the curtailment of communication and lack of medical access for the needy, saying it was unacceptable.

Acknowledging that there had been some lifting of restrictions but the situation was far from normal in the Kashmir Valley, the officials told lawmakers that New Delhi had to balance the everyday needs of people and the malafide intention of terrorists as it weighed restoring the full spectrum of communications. They also promised to get back to lawmakers on reports on a number of unlawful detentions while acknowledging that US officials had not been allowed full access to the Valley.

“The security situation in Kashmir remains tense. We are concerned about reports of local and foreign militants attempting to intimidate local residents and business owners in order to stymie normal economic activity. The United States supports the rights of Kashmiris to peacefully protest, but condemns the actions of terrorists who seek to use violence and fear to undermine dialogue,” Wells said in her written testimony, even as lawmakers chose to only reflect the concern of constituents.

At least one lawmaker, Somali-American Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, also excoriated the Modi government for what she described as its “Hindu nationalism project” that involved a broader anti-Muslim approach in India while suggesting the Trump administration had accepted the threat to common values that the strategic partnership was previously based on. But Wells rejected the notion, pointing out that the Indian electorate had twice elected the government, its actions in Jammu and Kashmir were approved by Parliament, and the institutions of India’s democracy were still working.

Asked by another lawmaker what “economic tools” Washington had in its kit to influence India’s behaviour, Wells responded, “With due respect Congressman….this is not a relationship of dictation, it is one of partnership.”

Although several lawmakers expressed concern about the human rights situation in the Valley, the striking feature of the hearing was that there were few questions on India’s action in scrapping the so-called special status for Jammu and Kashmir. Wells said the United States regards the Line of Control as the de facto line of separation between India and Pakistan and recognises the de facto administration on both sides.

Acknowledging that what India had done in J&K was an internal matter, Wells, however, said tension following New Delhi’s actions, much of it because of the long history of support by Pakistan for terrorism and terrorist outfits.

“We have called for the elimination of non-state actors and terrorist proxies so they cannot act in J&K. The more irreversible action we see from Pakistan…the more imperative the dialogue. So we urge circumstances for a constructive dialogue,” Wells told lawmakers.

Cheers

Pakistan's nuclear proliferation in news again amid Turkey's quest for nukes.

Pakistan's nuclear proliferation is once again coming under scrutiny following Turkey's reported quest for nuclear weapons. Buried for nearly 15 years after Pakistan's nuclear smuggler AQ Khan confessed to nuclear smuggling and illicit exports, the issue has resurfaced in recent days after Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was reported conveying his desire for Turkey to go nuclear at a party convention.

"Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads … (But the West insists) we can't have them. This, I cannot accept," Erdogan was reported telling his party faithful in remarks that have caused a stir in Washington. "If the United States could not prevent the Turkish leader from routing its Kurdish allies, how can it stop him from building a nuclear weapon or following Iran in gathering the technology to do so?" the New York Times asked in a report on Monday, pointing out that "already Turkey has the makings of a bomb program: uranium deposits and research reactors - and mysterious ties to the nuclear world's most famous black marketeer, Abdul Qadeer Khan of Pakistan."

According to "Nuclear Black Markets", a study of the Khan network by the London think-tank International Institute for Strategic Studies, companies in Turkey aided AQ Khan's covert effort by importing materials from Europe, making centrifuge parts and shipping finished products to customers, the report said. A riddle to this day is whether the Khan network had a fourth customer besides Iran, Libya and North Korea, the report wondered, pointing to intelligence reports that believe Turkey could possess "a considerable number of centrifuges of unknown origin" by virtue of being Khan's fourth customer. Khan's nuclear network extended to Malaysia too.

Pakistan got away with its nuclear proliferation in 2004-2005 because of perceived need by the Bush administration of Islamabad's help and the transit facility Pakistan offered in Washington's war on terror in Afghanistan. The country was caught pants down proliferating nuclear blueprints; but Khan was made to confess on TV and asked to fall on the sword by claiming he did it on his own accord without government sanction, even though it was apparent that he had used government machinery and facilities with the knowledge and concurrence of the Pakistani establishment.

Khan was subsequently confined to the doghouse (and virtually under house arrest) as Pakistan's then military ruler Pervez Musharraf sought to control the damage and rescue the country from infamy and punitive sanctions. He surfaced recently though, and in fact, in a recent public appearance at the University of Karachi, he spoke of Turkey and Malaysia as countries worth of being emulated by Pakistan.

Bereft of friends and allies in the global arena because of its support for terrorism as chronicled by global bodies such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)+ , Pakistan has lately latched on to the two countries to build an Islamist coalition. They were the only two countries that have stood up for Islamabad in recent weeks with even China, Pakistan's long time patron in its effort to constrain India, leery of Pakistan's embrace of extremism.

Currently headed by China, the recently concluded meeting of FATF asked Pakistan to "do more"+ in addressing the issue of terrorism financing while keeping it in a grey list. Amid much mirth in the social media, Pakistani leaders celebrated remaining on the grey list as a victory, claiming India's effort to put it in a blacklist had failed.

Khan similarly generated laughter when he spoke recently at a different event about the importance of research to students in Pakistan. Described in the Pakistan media has a "nuclear scientist", Khan is actually a metallurgist who has no significant research work to his name. From most accounts, his contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme came via stealing blueprints of centrifuge technology from a Dutch firm he worked in, an effort that earned him the epithet "nuclear smuggler" in the chronicles of nuclear proliferation.

Whether Turkey has been a recipient of Khan's (and Pakistan's) nuclear largesse is something that has triggered interest among Washington's non-proliferation brigade that had hitherto not expressed much interest in the matter since Ankara - unlike Libya, Iran, and North Korea - was a Nato ally.

In fact, the NYT story wondered why Turkey would even conceivably want such arms, particularly since they already host an estimated 50 US nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base, while suggesting that with its advanced civilian nuclear programme and ties to Pakistan's AQ Khan, Ankara "could break out in relatively short order".

I wish operation details were not published like this:
https://www.rediff.com/news/interview/m ... 191023.htm
'Moles inside terror camps sent info for Balakot strike'
October 23, 2019 10:16 IST
'Crucial intelligence was obtained by a R&AW operative from a couple of moles inside the camps four days before the Balakot operation.'
.....
On December 3, 1971 the Pakistani air force attack was anticipated to date by a mole in (then Pakistan president) Yahya Khan's office.
Another coup by R&AW was tapping the phone conversation of (then Pakistan army chief) General Pervez Musharraf who was in a Beijing hotel with his chief of general staff Lieutenant General Mohammed Aziz Khan in Islamabad during the Kargil war.
Third was the Balakot strike where crucial intelligence was obtained by a R&AW operative from a couple of moles inside the camps who had sent vivid details of maps, number of people, locations etc, four days before the operation took place.
Those two moles are believed to have been killed.
.....
Gautam

sooraj wrote:@bababanaras
2h2 hours ago
More
When more than 3000 shells of 155 mm Bofors Gun land around, the person loses his mental balance.
Same thing is happening with Paki Generals and @peaceforchange .
They are unable to understand what has happened.
Just Enjoy the game of Indian Army.

Ornob quotes Baba Banaras's above tweet without accedition and calls it a deep source in the Indian Army. Watch from 1:15.

schinnas wrote:Pls no ji for me. Agree that there is high radicalization but these 300 are willing to drop everything and make this their mission at the expense of risking their lives. That makes them more dangerous.

The rest can be de radicalised or made to see reason when they realize that it's the only way forward. These 300 give them hope of an alternate possibility which needs to be done away with.

chinnas ji,
Regarding Ji, if not for you, consider ji for our culture where respect is given by ji. I say ji as it is our culture.

My view on the 300 and the rest is that there is a very fine line that differentiates them..few slaps by police, gf ditching or not getting iphone can be a trigger. Of course 72 remains the perpetual backdrop. These 300 are actively supported, despite of knowing the consequence for both the supporter and supported by a wide mass. We just say someone who picks up gun as terrorist but not who throws a stone which can be lethal. My view is If guns are airdropped they will fire guns free of cost, simply because they have nothing better to do.
In their minds, they consider themselves better than the pioneers who went to space or will be going to mars. Both fully know that they could die for a cause greater than themselves. In this case they know they would die when they pick gun. they live just for the cause to not get finished.