J & K news and discussion

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 22 Feb 2010 18:55

When PDP released its Self Rule document, not before the Working Group on Centre State Relations, but in Pakistan, NC president Omar Abdullah openly blamed the Indian High Commission in Pakistan of having facilitated the entire process. The Foreign Ministry did not contradict the allegation. Many Kashmir analysts privately believe that the Self Rule document is the creation of a section of the PMO. In the recent past, we have many instances wherein we come across a process where GoI acted almost in tandem with the Muslim leadership of the Kashmir Valley, both mainstream and separatist.

Some more

During the Vajpayee regime, a US-based Kashmiri secessionist leader, lobbyist and fund raiser, Farooq Kathwari, arrived in India with the full knowledge of the Government of India in March 1999, ‘carrying a series of proposals for the creation of an independent Kashmiri State’. At that time both USA and GoI underplayed his Jihad connections: his son had died in Chechnya while fighting the Russians!

Kathwari met very important persons in the Indian intelligence services and the ruling BJP. On March 8, Kathwari had a closed door meeting with Dr Farooq Abdullah and some of his top Cabinet colleagues in the Jammu Secretariat. This meeting induced urgency in the Farooq Government to come out with its reports on Greater and Regional Autonomy in the State. During his visit, Kathwari seemed ‘encouraged enough to push ahead with a new version of his blueprint for the solution of Kashmir’.

The blueprint - Kashmir: A Way Forward - became known as Kathwari Proposals. The National Conference reports had ‘striking similarities’ with Kathwari Proposals; the latter resembled Sir Owen Dixon’s proposals! Noted columnist Parveen Swami commented, “As significant, Abdullah’s maximalist demands for autonomy dovetail with the KSG’s (Kashmir Study Group) formulations of a quasi Sovereign State.”

It was not a coincidence that almost simultaneously the Indian and Pakistani Foreign Ministers met in the Sri Lankan capital, Colombo, in March 1999, and reached an agreement envisaging ‘plebiscite in Jammu and Kashmir on regional/district basis’, ‘maximum possible autonomy to Kashmir and its adjoining areas’, division of Jammu province along the Chenab River and so on. Significantly, the BJP-led NDA was in power at the time.

I hope I never live to see the day if and when India will be balkanised again

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 22 Feb 2010 19:08

Murugan wrote:Stone Pelting Gang Leader Caught

Sources claim that kerosene, carpet and pesticide dealers were funding the stone-pelting racket at the behest of separatist groups and a mainstream political party.

PDP?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 22 Feb 2010 19:17

rkirankr wrote:Giving away of Kashmir
US-based Kashmiri secessionist leader, lobbyist and fund raiser, Farooq Kathwari, arrived in India with the full knowledge of the Government of India in March 1999, ‘carrying a series of proposals for the creation of an independent Kashmiri State’. At that time both USA and GoI underplayed his Jihad connections: his son had died in Chechnya while fighting the Russians!

Must be a mistake, his son was killed while attacking an indian army convoy.

On an excursion in Kashmir his group saw an Indian military truck and decided to engage it by opening fire. The Indian soldiers returned fire and a shell fragment from a grenade severed an artery causing him to bleed to death. His comrades left his body on the scene for the Indian soldiers to find, where upon they found documents revealing his identity. American Embassy was informed which arranged his body to be send back to Connecticut.

link

I dont know why the govt choose to allow this person to enter india inspite of knowing his terrorist connections.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 22 Feb 2010 20:01

Protesters kill 11 day old baby in J&K

In a gruesome incident, an 11-day-old baby was killed when a group of men enforcing a strike attacked a vehicle in Baramulla, Jammu and Kashmir, on Monday.

Police said the new-born Irfan was being taken to hospital by his parents, when the matador that they were travelling in was intercepted by some young men protesting against the arrest of some stone-pelters in the area.

The men began beating up the passengers and the infant, who was in his mother's lap, was killed in the ensuing stampede. His four-year-old brother, Ubaid was injured. The new-born had been referred to Baramullah district hospital by the local village doctor.
A case has been registered, but no arrests have been made so far.

Police said the assailants were bent upon enforcing a strike they had called in protest against the arrest of some people for stone-pelting. In a mammoth crackdown, in the last month, more than 100 separatists and stone-pelters have been arrested under the Public Safety Act - an Act that provides for two years of imprisonment without trial.(Read: Stone-pelters of Srinagar - a unique challenge)

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/men_enfo ... ashmir.php

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Feb 2010 21:19

LK Advani warns govt against 'wrong steps' on Kashmir
Mohua Chatterjee, TNN, Feb 20, 2010, 02.14am IST

INDORE: The BJP on Friday upped its ante on Kashmir and warned the government against taking any "wrong" step, saying the issue could turn into the "biggest political confrontation" in Independent India -- bigger than even the Ayodhya movement -- if the Centre attempted anything that might reverse the clock to the pre-1953 position in the state.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 593973.cms

The problem is that if the BJP conducts a high-voltage campaign, they may only succeed in dividing Jammu from the Valley. Jammu definitely needs its own space. But an acrimonious quarrel between Jammu and Kashmir may only end up facilitating the nefarous "Chenab formula" that could be in the works. We saw similar dynamics at the time of the Amarnath agitation.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Feb 2010 21:50

Pranav wrote: The problem is that if the BJP conducts a high-voltage campaign, they may only succeed in dividing Jammu from the Valley. Jammu definitely needs its own space. But an acrimonious quarrel between Jammu and Kashmir may only end up facilitating the nefarous "Chenab formula" that could be in the works. We saw similar dynamics at the time of the Amarnath agitation.

Indeed, but BJP must base their arguments on Indian nationalism and importance of Kashmir to India.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 22 Feb 2010 21:52

Avinash R wrote:Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K govt
The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for 'waging war against the state', a crime punishable with death or life in jail. The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against eight stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section 121 of CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home Department told The Indian Express that the government was ready with PSAs against "20 more such youths"...

This is good if the Police takes charge of these irritant types.

munna · Post by **munna** » 22 Feb 2010 21:58

Pranav wrote: The problem is that if the BJP conducts a high-voltage campaign, they may only succeed in dividing Jammu from the Valley. Jammu definitely needs its own space. But an acrimonious quarrel between Jammu and Kashmir may only end up facilitating the nefarous "Chenab formula" that could be in the works. We saw similar dynamics at the time of the Amarnath agitation.

The valley is gone! It has been decided and the die is cast. All you and I see is just a rearguard to stop entire J&K being surrendered. People of my nation have spoken in LS-2009 that they have nothing to do with J&K and mandated the current GOI to surrender territories for some imminent shooper-powerdom. I humbly accept the verdict but am broken by it. A nation that cannot guarantee its physical integrity has only one way to go and that is down. Saving Jammu and Ladakh is our only hope now, if at all. All those who may want to undertake Amarnath yatra may do so in next few years.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 22 Feb 2010 22:02

Sanku wrote:

Also Pakistani's can indeed travel through India legitimately right now (sad but true)

I hope this is at border crossings where they are strip searched.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Feb 2010 22:07

munna wrote:
Pranav wrote: The problem is that if the BJP conducts a high-voltage campaign, they may only succeed in dividing Jammu from the Valley. Jammu definitely needs its own space. But an acrimonious quarrel between Jammu and Kashmir may only end up facilitating the nefarous "Chenab formula" that could be in the works. We saw similar dynamics at the time of the Amarnath agitation.
The valley is gone! It has been decided and the die is cast. All you and I see is just a rearguard to stop entire J&K being surrendered. People of my nation have spoken in LS-2009 that they have nothing to do with J&K and mandated the current GOI to surrender territories for some imminent shooper-powerdom. I humbly accept the verdict but am broken by it. A nation that cannot guarantee its physical integrity has only one way to go and that is down. Saving Jammu and Ladakh is our only hope now, if at all. All those who may want to undertake Amarnath yatra may do so in next few years.

Chill pill dude. It is not that easy for govt to concede our territory. Best action is to split the state into 3.. Better against China too (Obviously J&K govt is not interested in terrority in Leh and Ladhak which they keep losing to China).
One of the big issues is that Abdullah family will disapprove this dilution of their power and they walk in the deep corridors of power in India.
It will take will and action over 15-20 years to change this.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Feb 2010 22:38

If these idiots don't care about territorial integrity of India, atleast make them aware (or general public) how J&K holds the key of food safety for most of northern India. If sources of rivers Ravi, Sindhu, Chenab, Sutlej, Beas and Jhelum fall into anti-Indian hands, half of India will starve to death.
An independent or "jointly-controlled" Cashmere is NOT in Indian interests. J&K issue is not about Islam and "aspirations of piss-loving Kashmiris" onlee.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Feb 2010 22:46

^^^ Issue is not that the politicians don't know. They may not care and/or the outcome you just outlined is what is desired by external forces. If we are sold out, we are sold out from within

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2010 23:08

jamwal wrote:If these idiots don't care about territorial integrity of India, atleast make them aware (or general public) how J&K holds the key of food safety for most of northern India. If sources of rivers Ravi, Sindhu, Chenab, Sutlej, Beas and Jhelum fall into anti-Indian hands, half of India will starve to death.
An independent or "jointly-controlled" Cashmere is NOT in Indian interests. J&K issue is not about Islam and "aspirations of piss-loving Kashmiris" onlee.

jamwal ji,

The pakis hid it from the deluded "freedom fighters" in kashmir who they did not want to publically equate with a few buckets of water because a few egos may have been hurt. Now even the dullards in the valley know their true worth.

Who does not know this? The WKK's know it best of all, morons like kuldip nayar and his damned tribe, and other paid agents of, like one foolish khan said " 'it's a great neighbour to have, we're great neighbours, they're great neigbours'"

What do you think that the fight is all about??

Make no mistake, joint control is a euphemism for full and absolute control, period. The only difference being that then these ******** will be on our side of the border.

What the pakis want is not only the thin edge of the wedge but the actual beginning of the end. A nobel has been thrown in to sweeten the pot!!

Waiting in the wings, casting covetous glances are other people of the book who have kept their powder dry, waiting for just this opportunity to move in and grab their pound of flesh.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 22 Feb 2010 23:14

And we cannot do anything bc they have nooks.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Feb 2010 23:25

Chetak ji
Indian public in general is unaware of this simple fact. How many times you've heard this water angle in mainstream media. Some Kashmiris in some vague way are aware of this when they talk about generating "billions of dollars every year through water resources" to sustain the economy of their "indpendent kashmiri state". Tell a farmer in Punjab, Haryana that he will have to rely on ever diminishing ground water and rains to water his crops because wimps in Indian polity sold the control of rivers for sake of bliss and halmony with Islamic republic of Pakistan under guidance of benevolent Umreeka. Losing control of water sources is not acceptable.
Why do you think Pakis are constantly whining about water from Sindhu and made so much noises whenever India constructed any dam on any river in J&K.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2010 23:44

jamwal wrote:Chetak ji
Indian public in general is unaware of this simple fact. How many times you've heard this water angle in mainstream media.

jamwal ji,

You are right.

The DDM has conspired to hide this fact from the Indian aam jantha.
They have always pushed the "will of the kashmiri people" angle.

It has never been mentioned before in any discussions on TV that I can recall or even in the papers.

The water issue is of late being mentioned in the same breath and sentence as "kashmir". And lo behold its suddenly become a topic for the "composite" dialogue.

But the educated lot and the GOI + NGO lot was always aware that it was the main agenda of the unwashed pakis starting from jinnah.

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Feb 2010 00:20

The idea that gifting away national territory is a big no no is an untested and unverified hypothesis. The facts as I see are

1) An extremely strong regime that can bull doze the opposition in parliament. check

2) A strategically weak and boxed in India. check

3) Sytematic marginalization and "purge" of all the hawks in government. check

4) No flag hoisting on 26th. check

5) A failed khan prez desperate for glory. check

6) Pliable media and a strong "peace at all costs" constituency. check

7) Unwillingness to absorb any short term economic pain while accepting long term econo-stategic serfdom on the part of leadership. check

Make no mistake I defended MMS post SES and on a host of other issues. I humbly submit now that I was wrong and Rajaram is right. (This tone is getting defeatist but never ever have we displayed such a lack of chutzpah). I don't sit over moral judgement of those who want to cede territory but I am heartbroken, that's all.

satya · Post by **satya** » 23 Feb 2010 00:51

If people here or else where think IUCNA was a sell out on Indian interests then yes J&K is on platter if anyone think otherwise then find another anti-acid tablet /conspiracy theory for tht's how u play a high stake game or atleast one of the way is this ,like it or not who cares not people in power

Deeds not words , circumstances can be used either ways , media leaks serve both purposes do remember public opinion works not only internally but externally as well . every step has more than two meanings , all is maya .

Anyhow things are beyond our hands so enjoy what ever unfolds , do remember we are not leaders for whatever IQs we have , people in power cuz they are there not us sooner we realise better if u think u can do better take a plunge in rajneeti . .

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Feb 2010 01:08

^^ I am ready to believe any optimistic voice! But the question is not about some xyz poster on bpl forum vs his excellency babu/netaji. Since all is maya onlee, power also has many levels and aspects. Power resides in a lot of places and interest groups and as of now none of those has been able to stop the "peace at all costs" juggernaut led by one group. Governments in the past were easily able to stall and stymie "world opinion" on flimsier grounds whereas now we seem to be giving way after being slapped in public. The apparent marginalization and decimation of opinions of other shades is what bothers a lot of people. As far people in power not bothering, those lordships have an idea of what happens when collective anguish is let loose. We are all leaders and we are all citizens, none are class apart lest there be confusion.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Feb 2010 09:26

munna wrote:The idea that gifting away national territory is a big no no is an untested and unverified hypothesis. The facts as I see are

1) An extremely strong regime that can bull doze the opposition in parliament. check

2) A strategically weak and boxed in India. check

3) Sytematic marginalization and "purge" of all the hawks in government. check

4) No flag hoisting on 26th. check

5) A failed khan prez desperate for glory. check

6) Pliable media and a strong "peace at all costs" constituency. check

7) Unwillingness to absorb any short term economic pain while accepting long term econo-stategic serfdom on the part of leadership. check

Make no mistake I defended MMS post SES and on a host of other issues. I humbly submit now that I was wrong and Rajaram is right. (This tone is getting defeatist but never ever have we displayed such a lack of chutzpah). I don't sit over moral judgement of those who want to cede territory but I am heartbroken, that's all.

Damn, Munna-ji...you were one of the only few who always provided a optimistic picture of current GoI ( based on ur Dilli-Billi paanwaalas).

If even you have given up hope and saying that the valley has been ceded, things are really bad!!!

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Feb 2010 09:45

sum wrote:If even you have given up hope and saying that the valley has been ceded, things are really bad!!!

Its not that everything is lost but the indicators have all gone haywire. Unlike many other posters I sincerely believe in capabilities of old guard kangressis and our babus. What has set the alarm bells ringing is the suppression of contrarian opinions within GOI. For any government or PM its not as simple to gift the valley away but what may happen is that a 1.2 $ trillion (soon to be super power or home of the largest number of poor, depending upon the issue being debated) economy India might agree to joint sovereignty over J&K with a failed barbarian state. I believe that hawks within may still carry the day but any thing short will be like signing away our writ in perpetuity for a few pats on the back. INC has done it for us in the past and may carry the day again but we need others to take charge.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Feb 2010 09:56

Anyone with paanwala connections - could you kindly speculate on whether Sri MMS intends to complete the entire UPA II term in office by himself or will yuvraj take over midway somewhere?

Hate to say this, but like many of the 'youth' on NDTV, I've been completely bowled over by yuvraj, esp his 'pro-meritocracy' arguments.

I place hope in him only because he alone on planet INC today, has the ability to take his own decisions w/o having to second guess what rajmata will think. He actually has the ability to disagree with rajmata and perhaps even have his way.

One can only hope he's spent at least his formative years imbibing Yindian air and water, that some patriotism and nationalism have gotten embedded into the unconscious.

Or so I hope.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 23 Feb 2010 10:01

he got a free all expense paid vacation to Singapore from the govt there to be wined and dined.

they know he will one day become PM of India. So they started the buttering up process early.

let the buttering begin.

anyway if a few of the old corrupt guys die off, it might be a breath of fresh air to have a new crop of politicians.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 23 Feb 2010 10:14

Carl_T wrote:Unless of course you think that Jinnah was a follower of "hardcore islam"!

Follower? He was a spokesperson for hardcore Islam. And like all leaders/spokespersons of hardcore Islam, the religion itself sat lightly on him, as it does today on the Paki generals who mastermind terror acts in India and Afghanistan.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Feb 2010 10:51

~deleted~

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Feb 2010 10:53

Airavat wrote:
Follower? He was a spokesperson for hardcore Islam. And like all leaders/spokespersons of hardcore Islam, the religion itself sat lightly on him, as it does today on the Paki generals who mastermind terror acts in India and Afghanistan.

Flatly untrue. Many ideologues of "hardcore Islam" attempt to be (and some even are) pious Muslims. Examples would be the accounts that former members of Al Qaeda have given: the footsoldiers are common criminals, while the leaders are true believers.

"hardcore Islam" has to do with particular interpretations and adherence to that interpretation. Its use in realpolitik is another matter entirely.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 23 Feb 2010 10:55

Hari Seldon wrote:Anyone with paanwala connections - could you kindly speculate on whether Sri MMS intends to complete the entire UPA II term in office by himself or will yuvraj take over midway somewhere?

Hate to say this, but like many of the 'youth' on NDTV, I've been completely bowled over by yuvraj, esp his 'pro-meritocracy' arguments.

I place hope in him only because he alone on planet INC today, has the ability to take his own decisions w/o having to second guess what rajmata will think. He actually has the ability to disagree with rajmata and perhaps even have his way.

One can only hope he's spent at least his formative years imbibing Yindian air and water, that some patriotism and nationalism have gotten embedded into the unconscious.

Or so I hope.

From what I've heard, neither of the kids are nationalistic (at all). Only difference is that the boy is a bit of a dud but nicer and the girl is sharper but more arrogent (source: Dillibillis)

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Feb 2010 11:05

When was it last in history that someone who got it as easy and on a platter worked for the common man or Nation's interests ?
Even otherwise he can't hold candle to the kind of qualifications what likes of MMS,PVN and ABV have in their respective fields of interest .

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Feb 2010 11:06

I place hope in him only because he alone on planet INC today, has the ability to take his own decisions w/o having to second guess what rajmata will think. He actually has the ability to disagree with rajmata and perhaps even have his way.

Another Sanjay Gandhi?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Feb 2010 11:19

It is a shame that Cong actually has intelligent and accomplished people in MMS, Tharoor, and Ahluwalia, along with some young prospects like Scindia.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 23 Feb 2010 11:53

To me it is shocking that such talk of even sharing J&K is being made. Ok if we were a weak country with respect to our neighbour, then there is no alternative but to swallow the bitter pill. However the $hit country on our western border is no match for us , nukes or no nukes. Hence I do not understand the reason for this surrender. Also our forces have fought and defeated the insurgency.
I am tempted to search for chanakyan ways in their actions, but I know Iam just day dreaming. It is an insult to Chanakya.

What is that which is driving people to surrender to the barbarians?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Feb 2010 11:56

We should sign a peace treaty with them sharing control of J&K.

Then we will drink chai and eat samosas with them and soldiers on the border will dance bhangra and watch bollywood films together.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Feb 2010 11:57

Neshant wrote:he got a free all expense paid vacation to Singapore from the govt there to be wined and dined.

they know he will one day become PM of India. So they started the buttering up process early.

let the buttering begin.

anyway if a few of the old corrupt guys die off, it might be a breath of fresh air to have a new crop of politicians.

It proves that Narashimha Rao was a greater thinker than those of today.

Look East!

Maybe this bloke has realised the wisdom of a man, Narashimha Rao, who was not given his due share in the sun!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Feb 2010 12:13

rkirankr wrote:To me it is shocking that such talk of even sharing J&K is being made. Ok if we were a weak country with respect to our neighbour, then there is no alternative but to swallow the bitter pill. However the $hit country on our western border is no match for us , nukes or no nukes. Hence I do not understand the reason for this surrender. Also our forces have fought and defeated the insurgency.
I am tempted to search for chanakyan ways in their actions, but I know Iam just day dreaming. It is an insult to Chanakya.

What is that which is driving people to surrender to the barbarians?

Not true. TSP is strong militarily, and fighting India they are willing to go down in a mushroom cloud with the belief that they can take India down with them. Plus they have 1000s and 1000s of motivated Islamic suicide warriors. India does not have such suicide warriors, and nor is Indian nationalism so TSP centric that Indians are willing to risk it all like their TSP counterparts.

Offensive war is different from defensive war. Thus, India taking the war to TSP could very well end up in a military disaster. Of course, should TSP invade India and demand Kashmir or else, India would have no choice to hit back, but short of that, the costs for India, which has more to loose than TSP, are way too high to start an offesnive war. If India could have knocked the stuffing out of TSP, NDA govt would have done it.

Thus, TSP is playing to its srength. Attacking, harssing, and humiliating India with its so called "non state actors", daring India to hit back, and then threatning nuke war. A way out suggests TSP is to "resolve" Kashmir, and as a concession, it is willing to settle for "joint control" for a start, which means while TSP and Kashmir Muslims make love, India can only watch and imagine the pleasure, and in due course will walk away willingly.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 23 Feb 2010 12:14

Well ...India always had Kashmir and Pakistan always had the kashmir issue !! btw, this is a old saying from the 50's

my take on all this is that indian democracy while being a weakness is also a great strength ...

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 23 Feb 2010 12:21

Even if it is playing to it's streangth , we're still in a very good position wrt to TSP. Every single international organization or country which has ever spoken about J&K , be it Unkil or OIC has been shooed away in no uncertain terms , therefore International interference and preassure is minimal.

Insurgency is at it's lowest and on it's last legs - the border fencing followed by 3 layered security cordon has made it impossible to send jihadis across the line so Paki stooges in India have resorted to the paid business of stone pelting (which won't last long either).

It's up to the Pakis now - either accept a compromise with India regardong LoC = IB or keep waging a losing battle and risk losing what they have illegaly occupied with the name of PoK.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 23 Feb 2010 12:34

Not true. TSP is strong militarily, and fighting India they are willing to go down in a mushroom cloud with the belief that they can take India down with them. Plus they have 1000s and 1000s of motivated Islamic suicide warriors. India does not have such suicide warriors, and nor is Indian nationalism so TSP centric that Indians are willing to risk it all like their TSP counterparts.

Offensive war is different from defensive war. Thus, India taking the war to TSP could very well end up in a military disaster. Of course, should TSP invade India and demand Kashmir or else, India would have no choice to hit back, but short of that, the costs for India, which has more to loose than TSP, are way too high to start an offesnive war. If India could have knocked the stuffing out of TSP, NDA govt would have done it.

Thus, TSP is playing to its srength. Attacking, harssing, and humiliating India with its so called "non state actors", daring India to hit back, and then threatning nuke war. A way out suggests TSP is to "resolve" Kashmir, and as a concession, it is willing to settle for "joint control" for a start, which means while TSP and Kashmir Muslims make love, India can only watch and imagine the pleasure, and in due course will walk away willingly.

Do not know about this the bolded part. Their browning pants during Kargil and Op Parakram do not show that determination. Also I do not mean to say start a war now. Why not be firm regarding Kashmir. Kashmir is part of India .Period. There are enought fissures in TSP to take advantage and put pressure on them. If a direct war has a high cost , why not pay back TSP with the same assymetrical warfare as they call it. There is no need of builiding relation ship.
Also we think by agreeing to talks we do not pay the cost of war, but pakis will still resort to terrorism and we will have to pay the cost without getting anything in return.Don't you think there was a cost involved in fighting terrorism in Punjab and Jk, terrorism in other parts of India.
We cannot escape from that. The advantage that pakis have is that they know what we will do or not do after an attack. 26/11 proved that we may have the muscle but the leadership doesn't have the b@lls. We are not going to attack in future too with this leadership. They know us and they play the right cards.
We on the other hand are not able to predict their behaviour. We too should appear to them as unpredictable. This will make them think twice before undertaking a terror mission.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Feb 2010 12:35

The Neelam Plan

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Feb 2010 12:41

Insurgency is at it's lowest and on it's last legs - the border fencing followed by 3 layered security cordon has made it impossible to send jihadis across the line so Paki stooges in India have resorted to the paid business of stone pelting (which won't last long either).

There has been 4 terrorist attacks in one week!

How three layered security cordon?

At the LC or in the hinterland?

True, stone pelters are paid ones!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Feb 2010 13:07

rkirankr:

Certainly, India is capable of a lot more than MMS-type surrender under US pressure, no doubt about that. And we have debated India's options short of war and yet sticking it to TSP both on this thread and the TSP thread.