Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 25 Jun 2011 06:28

I have been watching the pirate-indian sailor-burney saga on TV lately and one sailor after another is singing praises of Mahatma Burney and Paikhastan. We also ahve the for. secy talks now, is this any new ploy by MaMuSi to sell his pet idea of peace with Pakis, basically try and show that there is a humane side to pakis and we should talk to it and ignore the jihadi side ?

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 25 Jun 2011 06:58

sanjaykumar wrote:^
Some of my colleagues suggest that this attitude is an indirect reaction to the discrimination faced by Muslims in India, which I find to be a rather unconvincing argument. One cannot compare Pakistan’s religious minorities with those in India.

Perhaps India should treat its minorities as does Pakistan-surely that will be satisfactory to all parties.

So you're advocating we act against our minorities, Indian citizens all, on the basis of how Pakistan treats people?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 25 Jun 2011 07:08

Do you find that a problem? Do Indian Muslims find Pakistani treatment of Hindus anything other than strictly correct? Can you show me a record of their concern? How about a statement by an authority other than Javed Akhtar?

Would even the Jamaat ulema e Hind support a mu'ahadah in Pakistan? Enlighten me.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2011 07:11

Making a big hue and cry about Samjhauta is important for Pakistan because it fits in with the Paki narrative of standing up for Muslims of the subcontinent. As an aside it is increasingly looking like an old man frantically feeling his p*nis to see if it gets as hard as it used to 50 years ago but I digress.

I think India has traditionally been pushed into an uncomfortable corner by Pakistan and these talks are a continuation of that. Pakistan's behavior is like the gatekeeper of a women's hostel who walks around nude with a huge erection and occasionally fondles the girls, but the owners of the hostel insist on retaining the guy and the girls have nowhere else to go. The USA and Chinese support have kept this vulgar gatekeeper in business.

In Pakistan the entity that gains the most from claiming to stand up for Indian Muslims is the army and establishment. We on BRF have often asked why we (India) should do this. Why should we talk and make it easier for the establishment and army. The alternative is to angrily reject Pakistan and hit back. The net effect is like hostel girls mimicking the gatekeeper's behavior by walking nude and fondling the man. The man claims that his behavior is justified because that is what the girls desire. His employers ensure that he will never be harmed or removed by the girls.

Making an equal equal between Samjhauta and 26/11 is a part of the negotiating tactic that Pakistanis use. If you tell them to bugger off about Samjhauta they will tell India to bugger off about 26/11. if India punishes them for 26/11 they say that India wants war and that is why they are so heavily militarized and keep Islamic militia to fight India.

What is actually happening here is that Indian's honor and dignity are being reduced no matter what India does. India is being made to look like a wimp, a coward who won't fight. That suits the Pakistani narrative of cowardly Hindu India versus Martial Islamic Pakistan . If India does fight, that also suits the Pakistani narrative of a belligerent anti-Muslim India where Muslim==Pakistan. This is what i meant when I said that "India has traditionally been pushed into an uncomfortable corner by Pakistan"

But this helps the Pakistani military and establishment to survive by spending on the military heavily, keeping Islamic militias and using the twin argument that says "if India attacks it shows that Hindus are aggressive, and if they don't attack it's because we are so strong". The fact that the US and other countries have protected Pakistan by means of arms to Pakistan and pressure and sanctions on India have made it easier for Pakistan to live in this delusional state.

What are India's choices here?

Naturally - if India becomes stronger than the US and China then the two would have less of an effect than they have done in the past. This is one reason why I used to state that Pakistan will go down when the US goes down, but I am digressing again. India's second choice is to fail. To split up and let pieces of India become several states. The first choice is more difficult to achieve, and the second is out of question. The only choice India has is to survive in a no man's land where it does not fail, or split up, but puts up with the US/China sponsored needling and damage that Pakistan does - only ensuring that we are strong enough to defeat them if they seek to redraw borders by force.

But does that mean that we endure the insults that Pakistan heaps on us by sponsoring a 26/11 and equating that with Samjhauta? We may have no choice. If we act aggressive - it is "proof" that Pakistanis justifed and Pakistaniyat is needed. if we sit back and swallow it - we feel insulted - but Pakistan cannot beg the US and China for arms by saying "India is attacking us". In other words India has to swallow insults from Pakistan only to prevent the "power balancers" from putting pressure on India by arming and funding Pakistan even more than they are already doing. The long term goal can only be to make India financially and militarily secure and immune to the power balancing games. Until then we have to take Pakistan's insults and talk in order to appear non aggressive.

Ramana had made a statement elsewhere "To name an enemy is to make one". That statement can be modified as "To name a dispute is to make one". India and Pakistan have been equated and called rivals although the dispute was created only by one side. By naming the dispute, Pakistan creates the dispute. You may have no enmity with me - but if I hit you without provocation, I have created a dispute and all witnesses will say that both you and I have a dispute. never mind that you never had any dispute till I hit you. This is the situation in which India finds itself.

archan · Post by **archan** » 25 Jun 2011 07:32

sanjaykumar wrote:Do you find that a problem? Do Indian Muslims find Pakistani treatment of Hindus anything other than strictly correct? Can you show me a record of their concern? How about a statement by an authority other than Javed Akhtar?

Would even the Jamaat ulema e Hind support a mu'ahadah in Pakistan? Enlighten me.

Please drop this line of reasoning. We prefer not to moderate thoughts but this crosses the redline. No more.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 25 Jun 2011 07:37

Your ichchha is my hukm.

It was only similar to raising an objection in a court-serves the purpose even when over-ruled.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 25 Jun 2011 07:38

Rescued Pak sailors touched by India's ‘love and kindness’
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... %80%99-461

Five Pakistani sailors, who are put up in a police station in south Mumbai after being rescued from the seas since March and will soon be moving back to their homeland, on Friday said they were touched by the ‘love, kindness and help’ extended to them in India.

The sailors, who had been rescued by the Indian Navy from the high sea said that they would take the ‘mohabbat ka paigam’ (message of love) to Pakistan from India.

Aurangazeb said they were treated very well during the three months they were in the police station.

"I cannot forget the moments that I have spent in India. I am happy that I am going to my country, but also sad that I am leaving India," he said.

Responding to a question on 26/11 convict Ajmal Kasab, currently lodged in Arthur Road, Aurangazeb said, "I do not want to talk anything about him (Kasab). Shoot him (Kasab)."

He said that there was one moment he would never forget – when India won the Cricket World Cup final in April.

"We were watching the match in the police station. I was happy that India won the match," he said, adding, "I did feel a little upset that Pakistan had lost but at the same time, I was also happy that India won. Because I was already moved by the love, kindness and help extended to us by Indians."

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2011 08:07

Theo_Fidel wrote:
shiv wrote:Pakistan's failure is the failure of Pakistan's sponsors to give them what was promised. It is India's fault for failing to fall. Even the cheenis joined this Sun-Tzutiyapanti - under Mao at least.
That is an interesting thought. The British and Americans were sure India would fall apart in a hundred squabbling nations. At which point their creation would have been the most stable spot on the subcontinent.

Our mere existence is a poison to TSP.

If you look at the statements that often appear in the media (in Uneven Cohen's book as well) you find that they all ruefully refer to Indians (like Nehru and perhaps Sardar Patel(??) predicting Pakistan's failure as if they were aggressive rogues, but a Pakistani narrative that India was a poverty stricken basket case was taken as a given. It's not as though the "Pakistani narrative" was accepted. That was in fact the narrative in the dominant post war west and Pakistan merely echoed that. It was OK and well accepted that India was a basket case. But any suggestion from basket case Indians that Pakistan would fail is recalled time and time again by historians as though that is an egregious affront to the international order.

How come I don't see anyone saying that the Indians were right? That is because the west is itself, led by Her Majesty's Poodlestan are suffering from cognitive dissonance in having to accept something that they did not believe could happen. They are still supporting this artificial entity. I would like to dig up historic statements from Indian leaders predicting that Shitistan would stick a finger up its own backside.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jun 2011 08:36

New Delhi's Abbottabad Mission: Bruce Riedel

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 25 Jun 2011 09:13

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... t-Pakistan
‘US boosting Afghan defence against Pakistan’
Published: June 25, 2011
WASHINGTON - Accusing Pakistan of trying to have a say in Afghan affairs, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has stated that the US was building up Afghanistan’s capacity to defend itself against regional and other players pushing to gain influence in the country.
Clinton told a Congressional panel that Pakistan does not want Afghanistan to become a satellite of India, and that whatever happens in the war-torn country will not affect Pakistani strategic interests.
‘So it (Pakistan) has in the past invested in a certain amount of instability in Afghanistan’, she said in her testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Thursday during a hearing on Afghanistan and Pakistan. Analysts saw her statements as biased.
While pointing her finger at Pakistan, she glossed over Indian interference not only in Afghanistan but through it also in Pakistan, they pointed out. Having destroyed Afghanistan over the past 10 years, one expert said the US is now attempting to portray itself as a well-wisher of the country. In her testimony, Hillary Clinton said: ‘It (Pakistan) also does not want Afghanistan to become a satellite of India, you know. India and Afghanistan have a historical affinity. And historically, Afghanistan has supported elements within Afghanistan, which Pakistan has seen as inimical to its own interests’.....
_______________________________________________________________________

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =137387145
With Afghan Withdrawal, US Focus Turns To Pakistan
by The Associated Press
SLAMABAD June 24, 2011, 07:21 am ET
As the U.S. looks ahead to its phased withdrawal from Afghanistan, even more attention is being directed toward Pakistan, where Obama administration officials say al-Qaida and its allies are still plotting attacks against the West.
They argue that threat has been effectively neutralized in Afghanistan, a key justification for President Barack Obama's announcement Wednesday that the U.S. will withdraw 33,000 troops from Afghanistan by next summer. The U.S. invaded Afghanistan in 2001 because al-Qaida used it as the base to launch the 9/11 attacks.
Afghanistan could take on new significance for the U.S. as a base to launch unilateral strikes against militants inside neighboring Pakistan, an unstable nuclear-armed country that many analysts say is more strategically important than Afghanistan.
That future has become more likely as the relationship between Pakistan and the U.S. has deteriorated following the American raid that killed al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden not far from the Pakistani capital last month. The operation humiliated Pakistan, which cut back on counterterrorism cooperation with the U.S., a popular move in a country where anti-American sentiment is rife.
"We haven't seen a terrorist threat emanating from Afghanistan for the past seven or eight years," said a senior administration official in a briefing given to reporters in Washington before Obama's speech. "The threat has come from Pakistan over the past half-dozen years or so, and longer."
Gautam

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jun 2011 09:44

'Indo-Pak can't resolve Kashmir under gun's shadow'

India on Friday made it clear to Pakistan that resolution of the Kashmir issue cannot take place under the "shadow of gun" as the two countries concluded "satisfactory" talks which resulted in agreement on various confidence building measures.
Two days of talks between Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao [ Images ] and her counterpart Salman Bashir ended in Islamabad [ Images ] on a positive note paving the way for discussions between foreign ministers of the two countries in New Delhi [ Images ] next month. India [ Images ] pressed for "satisfactory closure" of the trial in Pakistan of Mumbai [ Images ] terror attack accused, saying it would help in normalisation of ties.
Pakistan wanted terrorism issue to be addressed in a "collaborative" manner.
At a joint press conference at the Pakistan Foreign Office, Rao and Bashir struck a positive tone describing their discussions as "very constructive and purposeful".
Various nuclear and conventional CBMs were discussed during the talks and it was agreed to convene separate expert-level meetings on these subjects to strengthen the existing arrangements and consider additional measures later this year. Both sides agreed to convene a meeting of the Working Group on Cross-LoC CBMs to recommend measures for strengthening and streamlining the existing trade and travel arrangements across the LoC and propose modalities for introducing additional Cross-LoC CBMs.The group will meet next month. The Indian foreign secretary made a pointed reference to the need to do away with "shadow of the gun and extremist violence" while dealing with the "complex issue" of Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ]. "I think we have to make peace and reconciliation step by step...We must do away with the shadow of gun and extremist violence because it is only in an atmosphere free of terror and violence that we can discuss resolution of such a complex issue."She also said the "unleashing of violence" should end as "military conflict" has no space in 21st century. It should be replaced by a "vocabulary of peace" for resolution of issues in an atmosphere "free from terror and violence". Bashir said the two sides made their "well-known" positions on the Kashmir issue, nonetheless they agreed to continue discussions to find a common ground. It did not mean that anybody has changed the position, he said. "We have tried to move forward," he added

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/war-h ... 110624.htm

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 25 Jun 2011 10:19

http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/23/stories ... 611200.htm
Kashmir step by step: the next round of talks
Suhasini Haidar
"India needs to understand that the absence of violence in the Kashmir Valley is not peace, and that development and dignity for all Kashmiris go hand in hand. Pakistan must recognise that violence will never bring peace for Kashmiris, and will imperil all Pakistanis.
On the face of it, this summer in India-Pakistan engagement has been defined by the discovery of Osama bin Laden, the revelations of David Headley and Tahawwur Rana, and the intense turmoil inside Pakistan that has unleashed another round of deadly attacks there.
Even so, as the Foreign Secretaries prepare for their next engagement in Islamabad at the end of June, it isn't these events but three significant processes that will define their immediate agenda, particularly on Kashmir.
The first is the successful conduct of panchayat elections in Jammu and Kashmir that were completed on June 18. Despite some violence in the initial phases, even the killing of a woman candidate by gunmen in Budgam, the voter turnout was between 70-80 per cent. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah called it a “smooth ride” beyond his expectations, marking the first such election in 33 years not overrun by militant attacks, or “interference” from across the Line of Control (LoC).
In Pakistan's Kashmir (PoK) too, this weekend (June 26) will see Assembly elections and the selection of the next Prime Minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir (Pakistan's name for it). What has marked these elections from the previous ones is the intense involvement of national parties like the PPP and the PML (Nawaz), with senior leaders as part of the campaign, as well as the participation of the Sindh-based MQM, which for the first time is contesting each of the 41 seats....."
Barabar= Barabar!
Gautam

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Jun 2011 11:24

^^^

I read this article few days ago. Don't bother reading her comments, she needs to do equal=equal to get her Paki Visa and get access to likes of Rehman Malik, to get 'bites'.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 25 Jun 2011 11:56

Not so bojitive news:

KARACHI: Police said they defused a bomb left in a makeshift mosque inside a hospital compound in the country’s biggest city of Karachi, fearing it could have detonated during Friday prayers.

Bomb defused at Karachi’s Jinnah Hospital

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2011 12:00

amazing - even the most hardcore militias the world over avoid attacking hospitals, but no such rules apply in TSP.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 25 Jun 2011 13:07

Afghan hospital car bomb claims 30

Thirty people were killed in a suicide car bombing on Saturday targeting a hospital in Afghanistan's Logar province, just south of the capital Kabul, a provincial official said. "A suicide car bomb attacker targeted a hospital in Azra district of Logar province," Din Mohammad Darwaish, the Logar pr
ovincial spokesman, said. "The suicide blast killed 30 people and wounded another 45. The casualties are all patients, their visitors and relatives and hospital personnel."

He added: "The blast was caused by an SUV packed with explosives and driven by a suicide attacker. "The target of the blast is not clear but what is obvious is that a hospital was attacked and civilians were killed."

I know this is TSP thread but I want the lurkers to know how their comrades kill sick and wounded as well.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2011 13:51

Singha wrote:amazing - even the most hardcore militias the world over avoid attacking hospitals, but no such rules apply in TSP.

Islamic militias, God's chosen ones, are different. They have done it in Chechnya, Moscow and Mumbai as well.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Jun 2011 14:07

Islamic militias, God's chosen ones, are different. They have done it in Chechnya, Moscow and Mumbai as well.

I also wanted to say that. Bombing Hospitals and Funerals was common in Iraq too. I also read about hospital massacres in Rwanda during the Tutsi-Hutu pogroms. Iraq there was a massive suicide bomb explosion, and they knew that hundreds of injured would be rushed to hospital..there a 2nd suicide bomber stood waiting as ambulances and crowds grew..same with funerals. The crowds in funeral processions were attacked..when people went to bury those killed in suicide attacks. This is not TSP ideology alone. It's a very warped and evil ideology that carries this out so consciously..

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 25 Jun 2011 14:36

Interesting reactions!

CRamS,

Your question is equally hypothetical. I do not speak of Indian Public Opinion. With regards to talks, Indian Public at large has no opinion. Or they do not express it. Or no one has asked them. What you see on TV sets are not Public's opinion. Talking heads are not public opinion. Just as self appointed Civil Society representatives does not make them.

However, survey after survey, indicates that while Indians want peace with pakistan, they do not support talks and settlement any cost. No support exists for slow motion or fast motion or loose motion sell outs of Indian territory. That is the truth.

It was a Congress PM, PVNR, who moved the resolution in Indian Parliament that made it impossible for any weak kneed or emotional or treacherous leader/PM in India to just go and give territory. Despite these talks, that is not going to happen. There are enough counter checks in the system and withing the Indian polity including inside the Congress party to stop such nonsense.

However much we may have doubts about the motivations of the present Congress leadership, to say that the GOI will just buckle up and do things that are not in out national interest just to please or help the sole super power is wrong. Plain wrong. The Congress party may not be a favourite political institution for many. Myself included. But one has to accept the fact that successive Congress and Non-congress (yes the nationalist BJP included) have gone the extra mile again and again with Pakistan. Even though it has been thoroughly undeserving of such efforts.

Pakistan has made the mistake of thinking this to be weakness and tried something foolish and time and again, only to be punished repeatedly. This has been the case whatever the party in power in India. It would be imprudent therefore to assume that the present administration would sell out. However, the criticism is not that they are not patriotic or they will sell out, the criticism is that they are putting Indian interests and objectives secondary to the interests of the United States. There is nothing to gain by doing this. And in this case, the aim of propping up a failing pakistan by the United States is something that is against Indian interest.

It is therefore sheer short sightedness of the present leadership to think that resolving with pakistan will secure a glorious partnership with the United States, peace in the region, and economic prosperity for India. That is not going to happen. This is what I am against.

The principal opposition has to do its duty. It has to ensure that Indian interests are not hurt in this attempt to please distant foreign powers. That is what it is doing. If it does not do that, it will be dereliction of duty on their part.

So while I hear you, I too have to respectfully disagree to the notion of a slow motion sellout succeeding. However, what is possible is some sort soft border and de-facto recognition of pakistani claim over Kashmir that it has occupied. Should that happen it will be a blunder.

shiv,
Your post detailing that India has no option is also something I will have to disagree. While you do look at all the constraints that India operates under and the relative position of strength viz a viz India by the two principal sponsors of this evil artificial entity, you have not examined the constraints of the sponsors as well as the relative strengths and options that India possesses.

The options are not War or Inaction alone. There is a lot of grey in between where India can act and further its national objectives. The Indian leadership seems to be convinced on the two myths. The shackles, I see are in the mind of Indians. That is what must be broken.

It is not India's interest to have a stable, prosperous Pakistan nor is it correct for India to accept that there is no alternative but to talk to Pakistan. India can do a host of things that they can ensure that pakistan experiment meets its logical ends. It does not mean taking their principal sponsors on either. There is a space for action. There is an opportunity for action. What the space is and what the opportunity is has been discussed earlier as well. For example, the recommendations that R Vaidyanathan made post 26/11 are perfectly feasible.

All it takes is a clarity of thought and unity of purpose to achieve the result.

Generally,
Coming to the part of BRF postors not being relevant. No matter what they feel, they cannot change anything because the rest of India is apathetic. That in my view is a reflection of defeatist attitude. One must what one can to create the awareness, to articulate their concerns in their own way to the Indian leadership. Failing to do that is failing to do one's duty.

So I will continue to post my rambles, give the BRF perspective in as many forums as I can with the firm belief that the nation comes first. Always and everytime.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 25 Jun 2011 14:36

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:amazing - even the most hardcore militias the world over avoid attacking hospitals, but no such rules apply in TSP.
Islamic militias, God's chosen ones, are different. They have done it in Chechnya, Moscow and Mumbai as well.

...and ahmedabad.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 25 Jun 2011 14:47

>>Generally,
>>Coming to the part of BRF postors not being relevant. No matter what they feel, they cannot change anything because the rest of India is apathetic. That in my view is a reflection of defeatist attitude. One must what one can to create the awareness, to articulate their concerns in their own way to the Indian leadership. Failing to do that is failing to do one's duty.

Thank you Raja for stating this so simply. This is something that cannot be said too many times. If we don't speak, we will have no voice. If we do not state our case, we will not be heard. And if we do nothing, nothing will be done. Act. In whatever capacity each of us can, even if we can succeed only in causing one person to pause for thought at a time.

We must articulate our point of view, and make our arguments in a civil, decent and tactful way, keeping the audience and their probable predispositions in mind. Remember we have that most powerful of weapons in our arsenal, reason, which is much more of a force multiplier and a weapon of mass conversion like no other. Yet even with reason, we must be reasonable.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 25 Jun 2011 15:01

JE Menon wrote: We must articulate our point of view, and make our arguments in a civil, decent and tactful way, keeping the audience and their probable predispositions in mind. Remember we have that most powerful of weapons in our arsenal, reason, which is much more of a force multiplier and a weapon of mass conversion like no other. Yet even with reason, we must be reasonable.

JEMenon ji
I proposed earlier that we make a documentary movie, a BRF home production, with all the wisdom we have accumulated in a visual format for mass audience. We must include interviews and clips in a narrative format.Facebook and other cyber marketing will do the rest. We can send the message in a more popular way and faster way to most number of people.
JMT
Altair

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 25 Jun 2011 15:22

Failed bomb attack on Red Cross office in Pakistan

Second failed bomb attack in 24 hours.

That is a phacking not so impressive work by those clumsy freedom fighter mujahideens.

Khitab said that the bomb resembled the one defused by police on Friday in the residential colony of Karachi's Jinnah Postgraduate Medical Centre.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 25 Jun 2011 15:34

A very good idea Altair. I suggest coming up with a documented plan of action to achieve this, and put it up here. Those who are in a position to support the enterprise will certainly contribute. There are numerous people on BRF with a very diverse range of interests and capabilities, as you know.

Just to give you an idea... a download link to the Shahnawaz Pirzada article shown above was put up some months ago on BRF. There have been 253 downloads, and I'm quite certain that many of the BRFites and lurkers who downloaded it distributed it as well. Simple things can help a lot.

What you are proposing is something of a more powerful and high-impact nature. Take the lead and take it forward. Even if nothing comes of it eventually, for whatever reason, you would not have wasted much except time on a virtuous endeavour. Move on then to the next idea on the same issue. Act.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 25 Jun 2011 15:48

JE Menon wrote:A very good idea Altair. I suggest coming up with a documented plan of action to achieve this, and put it up here. Those who are in a position to support the enterprise will certainly contribute. There are numerous people on BRF with a very diverse range of interests and capabilities, as you know.

Just to give you an idea... a download link to the Shahnawaz Pirzada article shown above was put up some months ago on BRF. There have been 253 downloads, and I'm quite certain that many of the BRFites and lurkers who downloaded it distributed it as well. Simple things can help a lot.

What you are proposing is something of a more powerful and high-impact nature. Take the lead and take it forward. Even if nothing comes of it eventually, for whatever reason, you would not have wasted much except time on a virtuous endeavour. Move on then to the next idea on the same issue. Act.

JEMenon
I am an investment guy with engineering background but I will do my best to put a draft plan for the project. I certainly do not have any skills to produce a movie itself but have a vision for it. I will certainly contribute in anyway possible.
I will put my vision in a document and if any BRFites who have experience in movie production can please come forward.
Thank you
Altair

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 25 Jun 2011 15:57

JE Menon wrote: We must articulate our point of view, and make our arguments in a civil, decent and tactful way, keeping the audience and their probable predispositions in mind. Remember we have that most powerful of weapons in our arsenal, reason, which is much more of a force multiplier and a weapon of mass conversion like no other. Yet even with reason, we must be reasonable.

how about starting another web site similar to... say longwarjournal? I feel the views of BRF experts should be accessible to public on one site than expecting them to go through the pages of forums. BRF has knowledge on pakistan, indo-pak relationship unmatch to any other website. This should be accessible to public in more subtle and simpler way. Well that means disclosing identities of those writers, may be.

Round table discussion on current affairs by the experts may also help...

JMT.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 25 Jun 2011 16:04

Altair, Jaideep,

I am planning to record my talk on Cyber warfare today at the Institute of Economic Education and Policy, Chennai. Will post it up some place, if it is successful.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 25 Jun 2011 16:06

abhijitm,

If you have an idea, and the capability, go ahead and start one. Several of our guys have started blogs, with powerful messages and no doubt an impact that is certainly more than may be immediately obvious.

Take for instance this site, started by someone a long time ago. It has remained dormant for years, probably due to valid reasons. But someone can take up where the site creator - who apparently learned to create websites while doing this one (going by one of the page titles) - left off. It was one of the first independent sites that came up looking a the subject, and has a treasure trove of old articles. It was created just a year or so before the planes were flown on to the WTC Towers...

http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/index.htm

BTW, it is one of the sites linked on the front page of this TSP thread.

@Raja - Great News

@Altair - here you go... Consider also the possibility of consolidating all of the good doc's video compilations relevant to the issue (if he permits, which I have almost no doubt he will).

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 25 Jun 2011 16:12

Next on my agenda is to get SSridhar to write a book on Pakistan - in English and Tamil.....when I meet him next

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 25 Jun 2011 16:17

^^Insha allah.

That will firmly drive the last nail into the coffin of the Pakisatan, as far as general public is concerned in India at least - I refer now to a significant chunk of the chatterati and the youngistan elements now turning to the age where they actually care for something other than facebook/orkut whatever profiles and the next move of the movie stars. But these guys are an important constituency.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 25 Jun 2011 16:25

abhijitm wrote:
JE Menon wrote: We must articulate our point of view, and make our arguments in a civil, decent and tactful way, keeping the audience and their probable predispositions in mind. Remember we have that most powerful of weapons in our arsenal, reason, which is much more of a force multiplier and a weapon of mass conversion like no other. Yet even with reason, we must be reasonable.
how about starting another web site similar to... say longwarjournal? I feel the views of BRF experts should be accessible to public on one site than expecting them to go through the pages of forums. BRF has knowledge on pakistan, indo-pak relationship unmatch to any other website. This should be accessible to public in more subtle and simpler way. Well that means disclosing identities of those writers, may be.

Round table discussion on current affairs by the experts may also help...

JMT.

I too like the idea of a web site supported or backed by brf. It's simpler to set up and could be a compendium of articles about pak, about Indian interests. Those experts who like to blog can all contribute in the same space, making it easier for readers to come to a single source for the best insights. Western journalists would also find it a source of incisive ideas...yes they do modulate public opinion in the west. The movie is also a great idea, needs special skills, but cannot be updated very few months.

archan · Post by **archan** » 25 Jun 2011 16:43

Raja Ram wrote:Next on my agenda is to get SSridhar to write a book on Pakistan - in English and Tamil.....when I meet him next

He probably already is. But JEM, doesn't this deserve a thread of its own? abjijitm/Altair, please do so with a suitable title.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2011 17:01

Altair wrote:
JE Menon wrote:A very good idea Altair. I suggest coming up with a documented plan of action to achieve this, and put it up here. Those who are in a position to support the enterprise will certainly contribute. There are numerous people on BRF with a very diverse range of interests and capabilities, as you know.

Just to give you an idea... a download link to the Shahnawaz Pirzada article shown above was put up some months ago on BRF. There have been 253 downloads, and I'm quite certain that many of the BRFites and lurkers who downloaded it distributed it as well. Simple things can help a lot.

What you are proposing is something of a more powerful and high-impact nature. Take the lead and take it forward. Even if nothing comes of it eventually, for whatever reason, you would not have wasted much except time on a virtuous endeavour. Move on then to the next idea on the same issue. Act.
JEMenon
I am an investment guy with engineering background but I will do my best to put a draft plan for the project. I certainly do not have any skills to produce a movie itself but have a vision for it. I will certainly contribute in anyway possible.
I will put my vision in a document and if any BRFites who have experience in movie production can please come forward.
Thank you
Altair

Altair - movie productions for YouTube type distribution is not difficult. Apart from actually starring in one I have done the whole lot, storyline, animation, narration etc. in more than one "production", although the video quality has been kept deliberately poor for several reasons including bandwidth issues until a few years ago. It is dead easy to narrate a storyline and mesh it with visuals and I love doing that.

The aim IMO should be a series of zero budget 10 minute films. But the narrative needs to be gripping and the visuals exciting for it to work. Ideally a nice "face" should do the narrative between visuals.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 25 Jun 2011 17:43

shiv wrote:
Altair - movie productions for YouTube type distribution is not difficult. Apart from actually starring in one I have done the whole lot, storyline, animation, narration etc. in more than one "production", although the video quality has been kept deliberately poor for several reasons including bandwidth issues until a few years ago. It is dead easy to narrate a storyline and mesh it with visuals and I love doing that.

The aim IMO should be a series of zero budget 10 minute films. But the narrative needs to be gripping and the visuals exciting for it to work. Ideally a nice "face" should do the narrative between visuals.

Shiv
This movie would be for the younger generation starting from 14 year old to 30 year olds. These people would have a opinion which can influence the next generation thinking of India. Our ancestors already screwed up with all pappi jhappi,sarso da saag and punjabi orgy. Let us make an honest effort to shape the next generation opinion about Pakistan because if we do not, many will be infected by the leftist media and WKKs.
This movie would be a pre-emptive strike into the hearts and minds of the young India. My being here in BRF was influenced by "Top Gun" and the dog fights in that movie and I am sure some here would have had a similar influence. One good movie can influence many lives. It must be informative and inspirational,emotional and thrilling.It must be infectious, an absolute bomb.
Every college going student and fresh passouts must watch this movie. They are the future of India.

First steps:
1. A script needs to be written.
2. Peer evaluation of script by BRF oldies and others
3. Script freezing.
4. Storyboard the entire script.
5. Refine the storyboard multiple times till we get it right.

steps 2 and 5 are the toughest part and will make or break our concept.

Funding and actual production would be next and would be no major issues there(I hope!)

Since you have experience in this and if you can start a thread, we will follow your lead.

There are many people here who can contribute to the script. I am sure they all will, given a chance.

Altair

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Jun 2011 18:00

Yaaaawwwnnn!!! This is going to be a boring weekend. No eid successful mubaraks in pureland. Anyway, I am on my way to Hyderabad & Bombay for business next week.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 25 Jun 2011 18:27

I had similar idea about starting a biweekly podcast with a buddy of mine.
Its a given that it wouldn't have been as knowledgable as other BRFites. (we are in our mid 20's)
Maybe this could be something that can be considered by other members.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 25 Jun 2011 18:37

>>But JEM, doesn't this deserve a thread of its own?

Guys, archan is right. This is going OT. Altair or abhijitm, please create a separate thread for this...

Vinod Ji · Post by **Vinod Ji** » 25 Jun 2011 18:47

anupmisra wrote:Yaaaawwwnnn!!! This is going to be a boring weekend. No eid successful mubaraks in pureland. Anyway, I am on my way to Hyderabad & Bombay for business next week.

day is not over yet!!
http://www.thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=17600

D I Khan police station attacked, six personnel martyred
Updated 1 hour ago

[D I Khan police station attacked, six personnel martyred]
D I KHAN: Terrorists have attacked the city police station located in Tehsil Kolachi area of Dera Ismail Khan, taking police personnel hostage, Geo News reported.

According to the police, six policemen had been martyred in the assault and the terrorists were wearing suicide jackets.

Security forces have launched an operation against the terrorists and exchange of heavy fire between the police and terrorists continues.

A man and a veil woman were witnessed to enter the police station before the assault, eyewitnesses said.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2011 18:52

Sri wrote:^^^

I read this article few days ago. Don't bother reading her comments, she needs to do equal=equal to get her Paki Visa and get access to likes of Rehman Malik, to get 'bites'.

paki visa and malik access always assured because papa in law haider will get it for her home delivery

However did not expect this of Subramanium Swamy's daughter.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 25 Jun 2011 18:57

In 2009, two Pakistani generals told the Associated Press that, of $6.6 billion in US military aid provided during the previous six years for counter-terrorism measures, only $500 million had been used for that purpose. The rest of the funds were used towards Pakistan's "defence against India".

A community under siege in tribal Pakistan
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/fe ... 60797.html