Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Oct 2010 16:23

Somehow I suspect the "Golden brown" is also sheet metal. Those are just the areas that need protection from ground fire.

koti · Post by **koti** » 31 Oct 2010 17:05

Aditya G wrote:Statis test of LCH. Which areas are composite? Yellow or grey?

After seeing this picture, I feel one will be capable to shoot down an LCH with a .50cal gun.

I believe such a photo is not supposed to be released into public.
Kindly remove it if necessary.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 Oct 2010 17:24

^^^You can shoot down any helo - even the so called heavy gunships with .50 Cal. So, what is the difference here?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 31 Oct 2010 17:25

Koti, most small arms will do - especially if it is tethered to the ground

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Oct 2010 17:48

koti wrote: After seeing this picture, I feel one will be capable to shoot down an LCH with a .50cal gun.

It all depends on the range and angle

This image found after a search on the subject says that 12.7 mm (0.5 in) penetrates 16 mm of armor at 600 yards (550 meters) if it hits at 0 degrees, and 7 mm if it hits at 40 degrees.
This is my source
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviati ... l-911.html

It is safe to assume that from 1 km away helicopter would be well protected against direct hits even with 7 mm armor plating.

koti · Post by **koti** » 31 Oct 2010 20:16

rohitvats wrote:^^^You can shoot down any helo - even the so called heavy gunships with .50 Cal. So, what is the difference here?

Sorry for the confusion.
I intended to say that since I got a clear picture of the soft spots of the LCH, it would be easier to soot at it with more lethality. Like at the non-metallic areas to destroy key avionics and cause more damage.

Hence was my request to remove the image.

However, LCA seems to be well protected against attack coming from below it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Oct 2010 20:21

koti wrote:
rohitvats wrote:^^^You can shoot down any helo - even the so called heavy gunships with .50 Cal. So, what is the difference here?
Sorry for the confusion.
I intended to say that since I got a clear picture of the soft spots of the LCH, it would be easier to soot at it with more lethality. Like at the non-metallic areas to destroy key avionics and cause more damage.

Hence was my request to remove the image.

However, LCA seems to be well protected against attack coming from below it.

Koti there is no secret being revealed in the photo.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 31 Oct 2010 21:31

The only thing I'm wondering from the LCH is how much fun the dude or dudette playing chopper gunner is going to have.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 31 Oct 2010 21:51

Bihanga wrote:
shyamd wrote:
Paramilitary soldiers are dressed for wet weather as they patrol a hilly terrain, a day after a gun battle in the region, in Pulwama, India, Friday, Oct. 22, 2010. The Indian Army said troops killed three suspected rebels in a nine-hour battle in a village on the outskirts of Srinagar. (AP Photo) ** INDIA OUT.
Just look at above photograph and rainy wears of our soldiers. It just look plain hilirious in this modern age to wear something like this, heck even soldiers of World Wars had better gears when it comes to dealing with wet conditions.

I know people have discussed this to eternity and beyond, but I must say that when the USMC wear their poncho's, they look badass because they have no hoods on them and they wear combat helmets or in the case of the USN, naval caps. Check out the first part of this video and stay for the Gene Hackmam motivational speech.

Can you imagine the captain of Arihant giving the same speech in Hindi?? Bollywood must try.

Username changed to Gurinder P
Rahul.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 01 Nov 2010 00:17

An Apache in Iraq was brought down by an Old WWII Bolt Action gun.

I know people have discussed this to eternity and beyond, but I must say that when the USMC wear their poncho's, they look badass because they have no hoods on them and they wear combat helmets or in the case of the USN, naval caps. Check out the first part of this video and stay for the Gene Hackmam motivational speech.

The Poncho in the movie clip and the pic above is exactly the same.. Camo it up and it will also look cool. Marines in Reality DO Put their hoods on irrespective of the movie. It however may effect your situational awarness which is a whole diff issue. and again..I have Seen BASE Naval Security and Marine Guards on US Bases in Japan wear frigging Bin liners as a poncho..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2010 07:41

Gurinder P wrote: I must say that when the USMC wear their poncho's, they look badass because they have no hoods on them and they wear combat helmets or in the case of the USN, naval caps.

I don't know what looking "badass" means. Is that good or bad? Sounds bad to me. How does it help a soldier walking in a heavy tropical rainstorm to look badass in a photograph? Must be an impediment to effective function.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 01 Nov 2010 08:00

Shiv garu, assuming you are not being sarcastic, "badass" is Umrikhan slang for looking mean and tough.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2010 08:37

tejas wrote:Shiv garu, assuming you are not being sarcastic, "badass" is Umrikhan slang for looking mean and tough.

Oh American slang? Sorry. Let me get this straight.

Once again, let me ask. Is "looking badass" supposed to be good or bad? If good why?

Is an American idea of "looking mean and tough" (badass) good? Is that some kind of American ideal that soldiers need to aspire for? Why should an Indian in India looking at a photograph of Indian soldiers in the rain want those soldiers to look "badass" like American soldiers in a movie? And why would Indian soldiers in a photograph need to start appearing "badass" from an American viewpoint?

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 01 Nov 2010 08:43

"Badass" in Umrikhan lexicon implies a "good" thing and something to be feared/respected. Basically the opposite of looking wimpy.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Nov 2010 10:43

^^^Perhaps Amirkhans like the chipandas are pretty vain about how they look to others hence the need for their police and military to swagger around and look badass.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 01 Nov 2010 11:02

^^ Very true sir.. Its about the image they project and is a part of their psy-ops.. the image that they are mean SOB's who can withstand anything is, more than anything, else why they are considered to be the best and are feared.. While we here know the abilities and capabilities of the Indian soldier, at times even we gripe about the way our soldiers look compared to them Amirkhans ( Except for the Hakim Shiv sir)..

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Nov 2010 11:55

A lot of nations have units that look badass including India. My favourite examples are the bearded MARCOS and this guy.

The sunglasses really add to his asian Samuel L. Jackson like mantra of wasting MOFO's.

Thus I come to this point, alot of forces try to look badass yet they fail miserably like the North Korean when they march. The KPA look like Tonka robots coming out of the factory with malfunctioning actuators. Compare that to the PLA who march with fluidity and grace. Finally the Wagha Border guards definitely don't look good at all with their monkey marching. And I mean both Indian and Pakistani guards.

Ashutosh Malik · Post by **Ashutosh Malik** » 01 Nov 2010 12:04

Gurinder P wrote:A lot of nations have units that look badass including India. My favourite examples are the bearded MARCOS and this guy.

The sunglasses really add to his asian Samuel L. Jackson like mantra of wasting MOFO's.

Thus I come to this point, alot of forces try to look badass yet they fail miserably like the North Korean when they march. The KPA look like Tonka robots coming out of the factory with malfunctioning actuators. Compare that to the PLA who march with fluidity and grace. Finally the Wagha Border guards definitely don't look good at all with their monkey marching. And I mean both Indian and Pakistani guards.

Therefore?

jai · Post by **jai** » 01 Nov 2010 12:29

Looks can be deceptive, make no mistake, this is a highly functional gear. Very rugged and tough - handles the conditions Indian Army operates in without any issue for years, is capable of taking abuse for years altogether. If I remember right, in the earlier years, this was mostly a one time issue to Jawans and officers as replacements were seldom required !! On the downside, it was heavy, coarse and made up of thick canvas.

I remember an incident years back of someone known riding a bike while wearing this parka/rain gear. His bike crashed on a turn - ran into a low visibility obstacle (it was middle of the night), at over 90 KPH. This guy was thrown on the road and went skidding for better part of 20 - 30 meters, yet the parka took the entire abrasion of the road, saved this guy from getting skinned and was still intact (not torn) at the end of it. Tough it is !

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Nov 2010 12:34

Ashutosh Malik wrote:
Gurinder P wrote:A lot of nations have units that look badass including India. My favourite examples are the bearded MARCOS and this guy.

The sunglasses really add to his asian Samuel L. Jackson like mantra of wasting MOFO's.

Thus I come to this point, alot of forces try to look badass yet they fail miserably like the North Korean when they march. The KPA look like Tonka robots coming out of the factory with malfunctioning actuators. Compare that to the PLA who march with fluidity and grace. Finally the Wagha Border guards definitely don't look good at all with their monkey marching. And I mean both Indian and Pakistani guards.
Therefore?

Looking badass and proving that one truly is badass is a rare breed. MARCOS look and are badass since they are very limited in numbers due to their training and skills. Jarheads just act like they are badass, while the Seals are indeed. Spetsnaz, well all 50k of them are seriously badass cause their training is requires them to be beaten straight for 3 months so their nerves are dulled. Very rare breed indeed.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Nov 2010 12:39

jai wrote:
I remember an incident years back of someone known riding a bike while wearing this parka/rain gear. His bike crashed on a turn - ran into a low visibility obstacle (it was middle of the night), at over 90 KPH. This guy was thrown on the road and went skidding for better part of 20 - 30 meters, yet the parka took the entire abrasion of the road, saved this guy from getting skinned and was still intact (not torn) at the end of it. Tough it is !

Synthetic materials melt when rubbed with friction, therefore that stuff the rider was wearing must be some tough leather, and parkas are usually synthetic polymers designed to be thin and water proof. The reason I have doubt is because here in Canada, the motorcycle laws are strict and I have seen bikers wear heavy leather clothing with jackets that have metal studs all over the place so if the rider skids on the asphalt, the studs would take all of the abrasion.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 01 Nov 2010 13:46

^^
While I cannot say whether Indian parkas will be able to take that much of beating, they certainly cannot be described as "thin". Indian parkas are thick and heavy.

Regarding the discussion on looks, this topic seems to come into the front every few months or so. I myself have taken part in many of these discussions with great enthusiasm and have finally come to this conclusion.
We are SDRE onlee and we intend to live up to our honory title with full passion.

IMO, looking all "badass" is only good for keeping up the morale of your countrymen through image projection. The military doctrines are surely not not made keeping in mind whether the opponent soldiers wear goggles or not. And while I admit that image projection is very important, I also have embraced the fact that our armed forces (IAF being "somewhat" of an exception) do not think of anything other than their job (for good or for bad).

BTW, regarding the spetnaz. First of all Spetnaz is a very general term and I do not know exactly which force you are talking about. Secondly, beating your soldiers till they get nerve damage is not the best way to go IMHO and I doubt whether it is anything more than an urban legend. It would certainly leave the man with serious physical complications (with pain being least of his problems) and unable to perform his duty. Of course, I do not claim to be privy to Russian SF training methods and Russians' anatomy may be far superior than that of the rest of humans. In any case, I hope that Dr.Shiv comes to our rescue and provide us with his opinion on this matter.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Nov 2010 13:49

this sunglasses guy looks like the s.korean guards at the DMZ - partcularly at the panmunjom checkpoint and negotiation hut. the n.korean guards there look very mean too and the assorted US soldiers and marines make up the balance. the whole place is geared up as a d*ck on table slapping contest with who can look more bura-kulla than the other. every now and again a taekwondo demonstration still takes place and noses get broken. one US officer got karate chopped in the throat and lost his voicebox once

ofcourse, none of them look like arnie or sly

jai · Post by **jai** » 01 Nov 2010 13:51

Gurinder, The rider was wearing a heavy canvas Army rain coat like the ones seen in the image above - which was in fact, lent to him by me !

That the parka survived was witnessed first hand as I was the first to rescue this chap. I was accompanying on another bike !

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 01 Nov 2010 13:52

Gaur wrote: We are SDRE onlee and we intend to live up to our honory title with full passion.

Amen to that sir.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Nov 2010 14:03

Seems the urban legends about Spetznaz really refuse to die away............

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2010 14:06

Gurinder P wrote: Looking badass and proving that one truly is badass is a rare breed.

Therefore looking badass is unnecessary. "badass" is an American inspired military cultural template that is being used to compare with others. "X is badass" "Y is not badass". Why does anyone have to turn out looking badass in a photograph which represents and image recording of maybe 1/200th of a second of time?

A lot of the time on BRF people loathe Indian appearances because they do not look the American sytle of "badass' when looking that way is totally unnecessary. "Looking badass" appears to be a very very TFTA requirement that SDRE's do not often get. And YFSE (Yellow face SlantEye) rarely manages.

Here is a Viet Cong soldier. Not badass

US marine: Badass

Pakistani SSG. Badass

Indian soldiers. Not badass

Indian soldiers badass

US soldier in Vietnam. Not badass

Indian and Chinese soldier

Indian Soldier in Kargil war

Indian soldier from Kargil

Vietnamese soldiers

Vietnamese army

Congolese soldiers

BSF

What has this "looking badass" got anything to do with soldiers?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Nov 2010 14:19

Ha! Shiv.....what would an old foggy like you know about such TFTA Martial Race thing as 'Badass'......go an cower in your dark and damp Kave.........leave such deep meaning discussions to young hot blooded people..........

BTW....does the criteria to be called 'badass' also includes punchlines like, "Hasta la vista, baby"?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Nov 2010 14:21

my favourite arnie line is "f**k you @ss-whole!" spoken in that thick austrian accent

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2010 14:36

rohitvats wrote:Ha! Shiv.....what would an old foggy like you know about such TFTA Martial Race thing as 'Badass'......go an cower in your dark and damp Kave.........leave such deep meaning discussions to young hot blooded people..........

BTW....does the criteria to be called 'badass' also includes punchlines like, "Hasta la vista, baby"?

I know I know. I tell ya - it pisses me off. I have spent decades hearing the same crap from my close SDRE relatives who have now been in the US 30 years. They went from here looking like shrivelled shrimps with their stick-insect arms flapping in a khadi bush shirt and now they tell me what "badass" should look like. Flppin heck. You just need to look at propagandu photos of PLA and "let's bring on the Marines" and suddenly I am getting a lecture about soldiers from a cousin who saw Bangalore bus stand, Mumbai airport and Chicago airport 35 years ago and there's no lookin' back Its badass I tell ya. Badass

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 01 Nov 2010 15:53

Yudh abhyas videos clearly showed the US guys saying that while the Indian soldiers liked their comms they didn't really appreciate their 'gear' saying it was bulky.

Western soldiers these days 'deck up' a lot don't they? And its often a waster because that fancy gear ain't stopping no Taliban 7.62 mm from 400 mts.

I personally feel that US soldiers come all dressed up for nice photo ops given that looking "badass" is part of their psyops philosophy.

On the other hand SDRE Yindoo and Vietnam soldier can walk a 100 miles a day on empty stomach and still take on the bad ass types.

Looks are very deceptive in the soldier game.

I would always prefer wiry relaxed looking soldier not carrying 60 pounds worth of gear over TFTA badass modelling before they get their ass shot off ...
Like Blackwill once said - 'India's million man army actually fights".

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Nov 2010 16:23

Sirji, it is about knowing what works and what does not. The Indian Army has seen operations across the most varied terrain from jungles of NE to Himalayas.....they know what is basic and core requirement and what is extra.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Nov 2010 17:36

shiv wrote: I know I know. I tell ya - it pisses me off. I have spent decades hearing the same crap from my close SDRE relatives who have now been in the US 30 years. They went from here looking like shrivelled shrimps with their stick-insect arms flapping in a khadi bush shirt and now they tell me what "badass" should look like. Flppin heck. You just need to look at propagandu photos of PLA and "let's bring on the Marines" and suddenly I am getting a lecture about soldiers from a cousin who saw Bangalore bus stand, Mumbai airport and Chicago airport 35 years ago and there's no lookin' back Its badass I tell ya. Badass

I understand what you are getting at Shiv, but your relatives atleast know what India is like. I have to deal with redneck Ghora mofo's who think the Indian Armed Forces are kurta pajama wearing tribal warriors that go around on horseback. Those ignorant pieces of crap don't even know that the Canadian Forces have CF 18 that are about to fall apart, Leopard 2 tanks that are on loan from Germany and the Halifax Class frigates that can be taken on by the Navy of Cylone. Just to quell your anger though, to put the badass terminology to rest I take back what I said about some forces being badass because their is only one true badass in the world and he is yet to be born till 2511. His name is Master Chief:

Jumping feet first into hell without reentry kits, massacring thousands of jihadist aliens back to their great journey while preserving humanity to its finest characters. This man is a soldiers soldier, exemplifying the finest characters humanity has ever offered. This character was made to honour all the brave souls that fought for ideals of humanity from the east to the west. This is what I call the epitome of badass.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Nov 2010 19:12

Didn't we already have this discussion several pages ago?

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 01 Nov 2010 19:50

BTW, regarding the spetnaz. First of all Spetnaz is a very general term and I do not know exactly which force you are talking about. Secondly, beating your soldiers till they get nerve damage is not the best way to go IMHO and I doubt whether it is anything more than an urban legend. It would certainly leave the man with serious physical complications (with pain being least of his problems) and unable to perform his duty

Gaur ji.I agree with you.In fact this is not even badass but dumbass.Eric Haney(of delta force fame) recounted an old ranger exercise in his book.It took place in winters and the candidates were supposed to lie in water for the complete night(something like that).By morning four were dead due to hypothermia.

So there is a very thin line between a badass training and a dumbass training.And our Russian friends it seems are quite adept in crossing that line.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Nov 2010 19:52

hazing and brutalisation are quite common in the russian army, several recruits die every year due to the bullying

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 01 Nov 2010 20:06

Lalmohan wrote:hazing and brutalisation are quite common in the russian army, several recruits die every year due to the bullying

Lalmohan ji , Russian army still is a conscript army.Only now they are trying to become a volunteer force.Apart from elite units the rest of the miltary was never well led and trained.This lack of professionalism was evident in almost all the operations in which Russian/soviet army has participated from Afghanistan to Chechenya and even Georgia.

Other serious problem that the Russian army faces is high levels of alcohol and drug abuse.hopefully in future they should rectify this situation.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Nov 2010 20:17

as they turn more professional, i am sure that these things will reduce

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Nov 2010 22:39

So, every one from Delta Force to Spetznas to SAS to Israeli SF are the 'rea' SF.......but we forget our very own Para Commandos....only if there 5% of Para SF related stories could come out........I'm sure Surya or Bose babu would have heard them aplenty......in me company had an ex-Para SF Finance fundoo........some of the stories would make Hollywood plotlines seem mild.....

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 01 Nov 2010 22:57

rohit sir,
If the stories are unclassified now, perhaps with the permission of the SF chap, you could share some of them here.
Just a humble request from a jingo who would love to see their stories told.