J & K news and discussion

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 23 Feb 2010 13:27

Carl_T wrote:"hardcore Islam" has to do with particular interpretations and adherence to that interpretation. Its use in realpolitik is another matter entirely.

Good. So you agree that the movements of the Muslim League in British India and the Muslim Conference in J&K, used hardcore Islam. If you wish to discuss this any further kindly take it to the "Distorted History" thread.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Feb 2010 13:35

I don't recall agreeing in any matter. But whatever makes you feel better!

wig · Post by **wig** » 23 Feb 2010 15:45

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 606864.cms

in kashmir the terrorists seem to be going on with their usual business of pillage, rape and destruction.
the article covers the martyrdom of two brave soldiers of the Indian Army

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 23 Feb 2010 17:08

RayC wrote:
Insurgency is at it's lowest and on it's last legs - the border fencing followed by 3 layered security cordon has made it impossible to send jihadis across the line so Paki stooges in India have resorted to the paid business of stone pelting (which won't last long either).

How three layered security cordon?

At the LC or in the hinterland?
!

This is what I was referring to

In mid 1990 as the first snows melted marking the start of infiltration the Army stepped in. The Army installed a simple three tiered system which it uses to this day. A potential terrorist or insurgent has to cross the tough forests and terrain. He then needs a place to recover before moving on to the Valley where he could melt in. The best position to stop him was at the border itself. The first tier consisted of patrols on the border itself. Constant patrols and ambushes were mounted to gun down any insurgents trying to sneak in. The second tier consisted of establishing a 5 km belt from the border. There was night curfew in this belt with shoot to kill orders. The third tier was to cordon and search villages behind the 5 km belt. Depending on the area the size of these tiers varied. For example in the Kupwara sector the second tier could be 15 km or more.

Using this strategy the Army scored its first success in Poonch. It killed 42 infiltrators in a single operation. A subsequent engagement saw over 70 infiltrators killed for the loss of 2 personnel. Stung the Pakistanis now started shelling and provide covering fire.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-2/lns.html

Still remains my go to guide for refrence to CI in J & K

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Feb 2010 20:36

The beheading of Sikhs in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan leads to protests in Jammu:

Jammu observes bandh over beheading of two Sikhs in Pakistan

The beheading of Sikhs in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan also leads to condemnation by the Jammu & Kashmir Assembly:

Kashmir assembly condemns Pakistani Sikh's beheading

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 23 Feb 2010 22:40

These people calling for bandhs at slightest provocation should be the ones put behind jail. When a few Sikhs were killed in Kashmir by muslim terrorists..there was a day long jam on National Highway. There was bandh when jaziya was imposed in Pakistan and now this.

Is it too hard for these morons to understand that this kind of stupidity hurts only their own economy not the Talliban or Pakisatan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2010 00:02

Jamwal, In the J&K Legislative Assy do they have vacant seats for the POK area constituencies? What about in Lok Sabha? Maybe you can lead a movement to have such measures in place in compliance with the Lok Sabha resolution that all of J&K is integral part of India.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Feb 2010 01:54

There are 25 seats for POK in J&K assembly but the elections are not held and the seats remain empty. During and before the Amarnath Shrine Board land issue there were demands from various Jammu based parties to hold elections where displaced people from these regions could vote(they are not recognised as refugees by Indian govt).It all fizzled out and nothing came out of it. AFAIK, there are seats for Gilgit and Baltistan reserved in Indian parliament too.
Whole of J&K inclusve of area under Pakistan and China is considered Indian territory on papers but not in any tangible action except maps.

PS: The number of PoK refugees in J&K is nearly 6 lakhs

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2010 02:01

jamwal wrote:There are 25 seats for POK in J&K assembly but the elections are not held and the seats remain empty. During and before the Amarnath Shrine Board land issue there were demands from various Jammu based parties to hold elections where displaced people from these regions could vote(they are not recognised as refugees by Indian govt).It all fizzled out and nothing came out of it. AFAIK, there are seats for Gilgit and Baltistan reserved in Indian parliament too.
Whole of J&K inclusve of area under Pakistan and China is considered Indian territory on papers but not in any tangible action except maps.

PS: The number of PoK refugees in J&K is nearly 6 lakhs

Do these members have spending powers? I recall PVNR created a Rs 5 Crore fund to be spent at discretion of MPs. Is there any such program for J&K MLAs? So is the Lok Sabha strength has two additional vacant seats?

I wonder if as part to the package allocating spending allowances for the MLA seats and plan to elect members in absentia would make sense?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Feb 2010 02:25

The PoK seats remain empty and therefore nothing gets allocated or spent. Other MLAs do have a certain sum of money allocated, but I don't remember the amount.

There are 6 lakh people from PoK living in India without any voting rights. Right thing will be to grant them full Indian citizenship and allow them to vote to elect representatives of assembly and parliamentary constituencies they were forced to leave by Pakistani invaders. I don't know what can be done about the rest of original inhabitants of PoK who are still living there.

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Feb 2010 12:02

sunnyP wrote:Protesters kill 11 day old baby in J&K

In a gruesome incident, an 11-day-old baby was killed when a group of men enforcing a strike attacked a vehicle in Baramulla, Jammu and Kashmir, on Monday.

Police said the new-born Irfan was being taken to hospital by his parents, when the matador that they were travelling in was intercepted by some young men protesting against the arrest of some stone-pelters in the area.

The men began beating up the passengers and the infant, who was in his mother's lap, was killed in the ensuing stampede. His four-year-old brother, Ubaid was injured. The new-born had been referred to Baramullah district hospital by the local village doctor. ............. {Snipped}
http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/men_enfo ... ashmir.php

The barbaric incident of stoning to death a 11 day old infant in Baramulla has forced Hurriyat hawk Syed Ali Shah Geelani to disown the stone pelters:

Infant’s death: Geelani condemns stone-pelting

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Feb 2010 12:15

Geelani has genes of the porcine group!

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Feb 2010 12:17

Interview by the newspaper Rising Kashmir of Kulsooma Begum the mother of the 11 day old infant Irfan who was stoned to death by a Kashmiri mob in Baramulla.

The interview shows this was not an accidental death. The Kashmiri mob was fully aware of the presence of the infant Irfan:

Stone throwers killed my child: Kulsooma

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 24 Feb 2010 12:26

^ Mehbooba Mufti on barkhas ndtv show says how can stone pelters travel in cars.

(er why not)
she is suggesting That those who killed the baby were not stone pelters but govt agents only.

Barkha is screaming..how can govt kill a 15 yr old, only a 15 yr old.
Somebody tell this effing shithead that the place of a 15 yr old is in a playground, school & grandparents lap.
Not in the middle of stone throwers. neither are stones a toy of a 15 yr old

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Feb 2010 12:34

Does Mehbooba have ears? I believe she does not have since the ears were cut off! I wonder why if that is true.

Since she has total control of anti Indian elements, would it be difficult for her to find the 'Indian agents'?

Is she a Pakistani agent is the issue!

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 24 Feb 2010 21:08

Regarding POTA/AFSPA/etc. I've heard a lot about abuses that have occured under the acts, some of them maybe be legitimate, but why do we not use the powers granted by those to snatch people like Geelani or Yasin Malik? Do we retain that right?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2010 00:51

Snatch them from where? They live in India. And lettnig them speak revleas them to be the fools they are not to mention aiding and abetting the enemy.

Really sorry for the infant's death. A mother's tears are hard to erase.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 25 Feb 2010 01:01

Why can we not arrest people like Yasin Malik under POTA?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Feb 2010 02:47

http://papercuts.blogs.nytimes.com/2010 ... sible-war/

Witnessing Kashmir's Invisible War - NYT blog on Basharat Peer's book 'Curfewed Night'.

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Feb 2010 07:45

FWIW, former military dictator of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Gen. Pervez Musharraf claims that India agreed to give independence to Jammu and Kashmir:

“I and Manmohan Singh had agreed on a plan to resolve the Kashmir dispute under which both sides of the Line of Control were to be given independence”

Pak, India had agreed on independence to Jammu & Kashmir: Musharraf

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Feb 2010 07:57

Militant, thought dead, emerges from debris and kills soldier
I hope that the IA learns some newer operating procedure from this episode.

A militant, believed to have been killed in a gunbattle at Chinkipora in Sopore, emerged from the debris of houses and began firing on security personnel searching for the bodies of slain militants, injuring a jawan who later died in hospital.

The militant, who is yet to be identified, was shot dead in retaliatory fire.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 25 Feb 2010 11:20

SSridhar wrote:Militant, thought dead, emerges from debris and kills soldier
I hope that the IA learns some newer operating procedure from this episode.

Any suggestions?

I wonder what could be done.

Under the rubble and if there is no reaction for sometime, it is assumed that all are dead.

But then.....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2010 14:34

india today

He chose army over MNC job

Akash Vashishtha
Ghaziabad, February 25, 2010

AT 23, Devinder Singh Jass had the world at his feet. Armed with an engineering degree and three months away from his MBA, Jass had already landed a job in one of the world's top accounting firms, Deloitte.

But fate, as they call it, had other ideas.

Ever since childhood, Jass had wanted to join the army. Having completed his schooling from Guru Har Kishan Public School near India Gate, he enrolled for a degree in computer engineering at IIIT, Allahabad.

While pursuing engineering, he applied for the army but could not clear the test.

He then enrolled for MBA at GLA, Mathura.

He tried once again to get into the army and a few months before getting his MBA degree, he joined the Indian Military Academy (IMA).

From there on he volunteered for the special forces and after three months of gruelling training, he was inducted into the 1 Parachute Regiment. He was posted in Kupwara.

On Tuesday, 26-year-old Captain Jass along with Naik Selva Kumar and paratrooper Imtiyaz Ahmad Thokar died fighting terrorists in Sopore's Chinkipora area, 54 kilometres from Srinagar.

The only son of Dalbir Kaur and Bhupinder Singh, Captain Jass was supposed to be home for Holi at their Mahagun Mansion in Indirapuram.

Instead, his father will be receiving the body on Thursday.

"I am a believer in fate. If something has to happen, you can't prevent it," Bhupinder said philosophically.

Captain Jass's mother is sick and bedridden while his elder sister Harpreet is a professor of education at Jamia Millia University.

"Very few people get to do what they want in life. That way, he was lucky to have achieved what he wanted," Bhupinder added.

"Since childhood he was very passionate about joining the Indian Army. We left the choice to him," he said.

A soft-spoken man, Captain Jass was full of courage. "He was never afraid of taking risks. He opted to become a para-commando and went for training with 1 Para in J& K. He said he was very happy." Talking about his son, Bhupinder said, "He was so adamant to join the army that he took the entrance exam a second time and cleared it.

"He had three months to go for the completion of his MBA programme when a private firm selected him through campus placement." The last time his parents talked to him was on Saturday. He had also spoken to a friend of his on Monday before leaving for the operation to flush out terrorists hiding in a building in Chinkipora.

"Since Tuesday morning, we had this intuition that something was wrong. We even tried to contact him but failed.

"In the evening the Commanding Officer informed us about our son's death. What can we do, we have to accept the reality," Bhupinder said.

Captain Jass and his compatriots at 1 Para got information about the terrorists meeting in a building in Chinkipora. A search was launched and in the gunbattle, Jass, Kumar and Thokar died. Two militants were also killed in the encounter.

SHOPIAN BOY KILLED

Paratrooper Thokar, who belonged to Kareewa in Shopian, was very popular in his locality.

The 21-year-old joined the army after clearing his Class XII board examination.

The youngest of four brothers, Thokar was known as a sportsloving person. Two of his brothers are in the army while the third is in the police.

Thokar's father Nazir Ahmad said that he was proud of his son. Hundreds of people turned out for Thokar's last rites on Wednesday.

With inputs from Naseer A. Ganai in Srinagar

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2010 14:37

Army officers 'insulted' at Delhi airport

Sandeep Unnithan
New Delhi, February 25, 2010

A group of army officers in uniform were turned away by the CISF at the Delhi airport when they arrived to receive the body of two personnel killed in a gunbattle with terrorists in Sopore, Jammu and Kashmir.

Citing security issues, the CISF did not allow a major general, a brigadier on a wheelchair and six colonels to proceed when they arrived to receive the body of Captain Devender Singh Jass and Naik Selva Kumar.

Captain Jass and Naik Kumar of the elite 1 Para Special Forces were killed in a gunbattle with terrorists in Sopore.

The army officers - all from the special forces themselves - wanted to accompany the bodies to their parental homes. But they were turned away at the entrance of the cargo complex of the airport.

The officers were heard pleading with the assistant commandant in charge of security saying: "All of us are in uniform and you can see our two identity cards - of the army and defence ministry. We request you to let us in even after frisking."

But the CISF personnel in uniform refused. The wheelchair-bound brigadier then pointed to his Kirti Chakra, India's second-highest gallantry award, and requested the CISF personnel to let them inside. But even that didn't work. Civil aviation ministry officials were approached but they too refused to help.

After over an hour, the officers handed the flowers they had brought to the relatives of the fallen soldier and went back humiliated.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Feb 2010 14:41

Carl_T -> putting Yasin malik under POTA will be a PR disaster and make him a rallying cry for anti-India forces.

Better to wait for the day when ISI bumps him off for not being pro pakistan enough.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Feb 2010 16:28

RayC wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Militant, thought dead, emerges from debris and kills soldier
I hope that the IA learns some newer operating procedure from this episode.
Any suggestions?

I have none. I do not have any pretensions of offering anything either. However, I firmly believe that we learn something everyday, something from every incident, especially when there is a loss of a valuable and valiant Indian soldier. Learning never stops and it is no shame either. I am sure that the IA does not believe that they have learnt everything there is to learn about counter terror or counter insurgency procedures.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Feb 2010 16:45

Singha wrote:Army officers 'insulted' at Delhi airport

A group of army officers in uniform were turned away by the CISF at the Delhi airport when they arrived to receive the body of two personnel killed in a gunbattle with terrorists in Sopore, Jammu and Kashmir.

Citing security issues, the CISF did not allow a major general, a brigadier on a wheelchair and six colonels to proceed when they arrived to receive the body of Captain Devender Singh Jass and Naik Selva Kumar.
. . .
After over an hour, the officers handed the flowers they had brought to the relatives of the fallen soldier and went back humiliated.

If these officers had come on official protocol to receive bodies, then there should have been better coordination between the IA and the IGIA. However, if they had come on a personal visit to receive the bodies of their colleagues, then the CISF & airport officials are right, however noble the gesture of these officers is. The 'humiliation' part is misleading in that case.

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Feb 2010 17:01

Singha wrote:Army officers 'insulted' at Delhi airport

Sandeep Unnithan
New Delhi, February 25, 2010 ...........{Snipped}

There is the air of the contrived with this India Today(?) story by Sandeep Unnithan.

I see no reason for the Army Officers to feel insulted if such was indeed the case as there was nothing in the story to suggest that the CISF did anything but their duty in turning back the Officers. Further the story carries no suggestion that the Officers formed part of an official Honour Guard which would off course make my comment very different.

In any event if as reported in the story the Officers “wanted to accompany the bodies to their parental homes” there was nothing stopping them from accompanying the cortege when it exited from the cargo complex of the airport.

Looks to me like a crass attempt by Sandeep Unnithan and India Today to sex up their magazine.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 25 Feb 2010 22:22

Aditya_V wrote:Carl_T -> putting Yasin malik under POTA will be a PR disaster and make him a rallying cry for anti-India forces.

Better to wait for the day when ISI bumps him off for not being pro pakistan enough.

Correct, but what do we have to lose anyways? Maybe, perhaps it is too farfetched but we could probably gather intel that way.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 25 Feb 2010 22:50

Rival groups clash in Kashmir's Pattan town, curfew clamped

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 25 Feb 2010 23:01

Gents, can anyone direct me to somewhere on BR or the web where I can read about the Abdullahs?

Or can someone here shed some light.

Have they always been pro-Indian Union?, Good for J&K?, Trustworthy? (Well as trustworthy as any politician can be). etc.

Thanks,

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 26 Feb 2010 00:18

^
And the differences in ideology between the individual Abdullahs?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Feb 2010 00:48

RayC wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Militant, thought dead, emerges from debris and kills soldier
I hope that the IA learns some newer operating procedure from this episode.
Any suggestions?

I wonder what could be done.

Under the rubble and if there is no reaction for sometime, it is assumed that all are dead.

But then.....

Is this related to the stopping power vs wounding power of the bullet? maybe the terrorist wasnt shot dead but merely wounded? I recall there is an ongoing debate about need for high powered rifles.

Maybe need to kill them dead.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Feb 2010 00:57

ramana wrote:
Is this related to the stopping power vs wounding power of the bullet? maybe the terrorist wasnt shot dead but merely wounded? I recall there is an ongoing debate about need for high powered rifles.

Maybe need to kill them dead.

The soldiers involved were SF right? So they would probably be using AKMs. So that problem would not arise.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Feb 2010 02:37

sunnyP wrote:Have they always been pro-Indian Union?, Good for J&K?, Trustworthy? (Well as trustworthy as any politician can be).,

Make sure to read up on the 7 hour long private meeting in 1953 between Adlai Stevenson and Sheikh Abdullah.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Feb 2010 03:26

Both Abdulas are married outside of their Birathari and the wives have kept their respective religion. IMHO it explains their mindset as they are not fond of Pakislamic activities.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 26 Feb 2010 04:20

Married to the daughter of an IA major. That's interesting!

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 26 Feb 2010 10:04

Dogri Language Literature

During the reign of Maharaja Ranbir Singh (1857-1885), Dogri was the official language of the Jammu and Kashmir State and afterwards Urdu became the official language and medium of instruction. In the past, Dogri alphabet were called “Ganamat” and later modified to “Namey Akkhar” during regime of Ranbir Singh. On recommendation of an official committee, Devnagari script for Dogri was adopted in 1955 and it was incorporated in the State Constitution in 1957.

The Kashmiri language was included in the 8th Schedule of the Indian Constitution in 1950 but Dogri was left out on the plea that only one language from a State could be taken. After substantial literary progress and long drawn struggle, Dogri too has been accorded constitutional status from December 22, 2003.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Feb 2010 11:40

Carl_T wrote:Married to the daughter of an IA major. That's interesting!

Interesting indeed. What's more, its a 2-way street as well. IIRC, Omar Abdulla's sister is married to a yindoo political scion.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 26 Feb 2010 11:59

^^^^

Sachin Pilot.