The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Nov 2015 22:57

^^ Thats sloppiness because your aircraft can get down by Ack Ack or there would be flame out and pilot would bail out with similar fate.

Its best to bomb these areas with multiple aircraft with CAP so you have a buddy along.

You can still expect sympathy from military people in hostilities but with these Jihadis they would surely brutally torture and kill them , So In a way I am happy these pilots did not have to go through those torture or beheading etc.

Its a dangerous job to fly in these areas , A fleet Armed Drone would be more appropriate here

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Nov 2015 22:58

That the Russians will respond to this, there is no doubt. Very likely via a proxy like Assad...which would not be a great move. Far better is to call the NATO bluff and have a couple of kloobs land on turkish solah base in the border area....kind if "oops, crossed over ny mijtake wonlee...navigation error" at the same time do some test launch of bulava et al...just to remind folks that war with bear can have very dire consequences.

I'm willing to bet that NATO deserts Turkey mighty fast and keeps it leashed.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Nov 2015 23:00

Austin wrote:^^ Thats sloppiness because your aircraft can get down by Ack Ack or there would be flame out and pilot would bail out with similar fate.

Its best to bomb these areas with multiple aircraft with CAP so you have a buddy along.

You can still expect sympathy from military people in hostilities but with these Jihadis they would surely brutally torture and kill them , So In a way I am happy these pilots did not have to go through those torture or beheading etc.

Its a dangerous job to fly in these areas , A fleet Armed Drone would be more appropriate here

True, but once shot down, what can wingman do? Can't really provide cover..

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Nov 2015 23:08

It is the responsibility of the Turks and NATO having shot down the plane to ensure Geneva conventions are followed for the Pilot. If the pilot has been Bludgeoned to death Turkey and Ergodan must be treated as war criminals.

It is obvious now that ISIS airforce has scored a kill.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Nov 2015 23:08

Cain Marko wrote:True, but once shot down, what can wingman do? Can't really provide cover..

They can direct the rescue crew , locate its position or provide cover fire if required.

Remember during Kargil , Late Ahuja was doing the same when Nachi when down due to flameout

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Nov 2015 23:09

In Rescue operation one Naval Infantary man died

http://sputniknews.com/world/20151124/1 ... ussia.html

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Nov 2015 23:17

Austin wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:True, but once shot down, what can wingman do? Can't really provide cover..
They can direct the rescue crew , locate its position or provide cover fire if required.

Remember during Kargil , Late Ahuja was doing the same when Nachi when down due to flameout

True but again, once downed in harami territory end result is unlikely to be different. Nach result was how different? Even worse wingman can be shot down as well as in case of the late Ahuja

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Nov 2015 23:19

A backstab is always unexpected. Long time back, when ISIL was running over genociding and enslaving population, there were reports of NATO radars 'lighting up' Syrian fighter jets so that the fighters won't risk such an open shotdown and therefore not able to bomb the ISIL hordes. The Turks and NATO are now openly out supporting banned al-Nusra that is populated by Turkmen from Turkey/Turkmenistan. Please to note F-16 sold to Turkey. If USA had bombed ISIL convoys this thread would look like American pie fanclub, but alas, not a word from secularists as well. Russia could put another radar next to Turkey and bomb the rats all along Euphrates.

This education of such networks should have been taught to us since 1947 but for hostage-bonding elements in education to not offend taqiya-noosi.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 24 Nov 2015 23:30

Nato meets as Russia confirms two dead after jet shot down - live updates

One of the two pilots has died, from “fire from the ground”.

The fate of the second pilot remains unclear. A helicopter sent to rescue the pilots was hit, performed an emergency landing, and one of the marines on board died.

Military contacts with Turkey will be severed.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Nov 2015 23:35

Austin wrote:The Russians seems to be sloppy too to let the lone Su-24 bomb close to the border without a CAP , considering in past one of the Su-30SM was also locked by Turkish radar.

Even if there is an engine flameout the crew would fall into a very hostile territory with little chance of surviving , A CAP is a must in these areas.

One can only thank these FSA do not have any Stingers so far or the ISIS

I thought there were two Russian planes involved? Per the purported letter from the Turks to the UN?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2015 23:43

A lot of ppl have underestimated Comrade Vlad's chess skills. Come 2 think of it, Y was the lone plane in that area?

Are Russian planes flying alone all over Syria?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Nov 2015 23:53

^^ayyo saar are ju suggesting comrade putin is sending his pilates on soosai mission

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2015 23:55

Putin moves the chess pieces.

1. Nato meets as Russia confirms one of two pilots dead after jet shot down - live updates.

2. The fate of the second pilot remains unclear. A helicopter sent to rescue the pilots was hit, performed an emergency landing, and one of the marines on board died.

Military contacts with Turkey will be severed.

3. Russia says Syrian air traffic control shows the Turkish F-16 which shot down the Russian plane violated Syrian airspace.

4. Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

Three steps as announced by top brass:

Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended (why not have a friendly visit by a few Kalibrs on the ~~Turkish Parliament~~ terrorist lair I wonder)

Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Nov 2015 23:57

video is over RT that a pilot has been caught alive by 10th brigade
there is confusion who are they.
And jet was downed by AAM

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Nov 2015 00:02

Batoriji, I've never been a good chess player, my sixteen year old nephew took me to the cleaners last time I played.....so plain speak plijj...is putinsaar creating space for new kurdish state?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Nov 2015 00:12

The thing with good chess players is that the spectators cannot guess what the end game is, until the "Check!" yell comes. Erdogan is like the classic Optimistullah:

The Optimistullah fell ten storeys
At each window bar
He called out to his friends
AOA! OK So far!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Nov 2015 00:15

So ceasefire is off the table?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 00:19

Yes, CainMarko. The Kurdish state will come. What we are seeing is a Russian-Shia-Kurd Arc spanning from Iran to Lebanon which runs right through Turkey. Civil war is inevitable and the Turks know it. Turks firing the first shot is inevitable. The best chance they have is starting the move up the escalation ladder now rather than later when they are completely cutoff from ISIS from the South. Moreover, by abruptly shooting down the russian aircraft it will give NATO and the US very little room to wiggle out. Turks now are preparing for retaliatory measures. Hard to believe that Turkey won't go on the offensive now in Syria and Iraq.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Nov 2015 00:26

high chance of this being a fake claim:
FSA video claims Russian-made helicopter hit with US-made TOW missile near Su-24 crash site - Nov 24, 2015

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 00:26

ramana wrote:So ceasefire is off the table?

Ceasefire never existed. What we're seeing is a gradual escalation from proxy to full kinetic.

The Russians will begin with a retaliatory strike within the next few days followed by non kinetic options like cyber and economic attacks. They want to force the Turks to commit a big miscalculation and overstretch the armed forces to the extent that it gives the Kurds more breathing room.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Nov 2015 00:28

Via the Guardian: Quote: This from Reuters. Diplomats present at the meeting told Reuters that while none of the 28 Nato envoys defended Russia’s actions, many expressed concern that Turkey did not escort the Russian warplane out of its airspace. “There are other ways of dealing with these kinds of incidents,” said one diplomat who declined to be named.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Nov 2015 00:29

Royji, In that case NATO needs to cut turkey loose, and the roosies have thanksgiving. no point getting everybody in a mess because turkey has ambitions. Problem is, I doubt this will be so simple...

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 00:33

Cain Marko wrote:Royji, In that case NATO needs to cut turkey loose, and the roosies have thanksgiving. no point getting everybody in a mess because turkey has ambitions. Problem is, I doubt this will be so simple...

Nope. NATO has no choice. If they don't step up to the plate, the security guarantee goes out the window. This is what Putin wants.

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 25 Nov 2015 00:34

Read somewhere (dont remember exactly) the order to pull the trigger came from none other than Turkish PM himself!!! Is it true gurus????
And stupid turks have already lost quite a bit of goodwill world over by displaying their pakiness(booing the football match, supporting Isil). This Su24 downing gives Vlad the Bear an excuse to cordon-off the entire levant with some Heavy hardware. This coupled with the recent attacks in europe, will make it difficult for NATO to comprehensively oppose the Bear in Levant(imagine trying to explain to le parisions that we want to bomb people who are bombing the people who bombed us....lol)

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 00:40

The situation is simply is this:

Turks are facing an inevitable civil war and this is about the best chance they've got to retain what they have.

Russia is facing some stiff NATO buildup limiting his options in Europe so target the most unstable member and attack the very idea of a security guarantee.

Putin fulfills two objectives - a) Country rallies behind him b) He has a further excuse to bolster his presence in the region.

At the end of the day Turkey is a sideshow. He's really salivating at the prospect of co-opting GCC countries including Saudi Arabia into a Russian energy architecture.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Nov 2015 00:44

Russian pilots getting shot at while parachuting down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0dYA3PO7Nw

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 25 Nov 2015 00:48

If Turkey is supporting groups firing on ejected pilots, isnt it an accomplice in warcrime?
I mean not every german after world war 2 was a nazi, but sure got treated as one

You cant put a positive spin on what turkey has done, no matter what.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 00:50

martinbaker wrote:If Turkey is supporting groups firing on ejected pilots, isnt it an accomplice in warcrime?
I mean not every german after world war 2 was a nazi, but sure got treated as one
You cant put a positive spin on what turkey has done, no matter what.

Oh whatever. Practically their entire history is a war crime.

They def wanted to kill at least one of them. This was def premeditated.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c2f_1448390946

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Nov 2015 01:04

Wikileak's Turkey's letter to the UN
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/669188253279473664

"This morning (November 24) 2 SU-24 planes...despite these warnings, both planes...plane 1 left Turkish national airspace. Plane 2 was fired at...."

If we believe Wikileaks, seems like there were 2 planes, no?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Nov 2015 01:12

WOW!! So, Lavrov was supposed to visit Turkey tomorrow and this happened. Turkey was told to do it or else?

On Nov26(?), Hollande is supposed to visit Russia, wondering if it will happen or cancelled as well?

Lavrov cancels Turkey visit over downing of Russian military jet

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 01:14

Like some BRFites said, they are trying to be Paki but they aren't dealing with an India.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Nov 2015 01:18

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ch-6890202

This is like a hollywood phillum any more.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Nov 2015 03:18

RoyG wrote:Like some BRFites said, they are trying to be Paki but they aren't dealing with an India.

You dont have to wait too long before some Paki will claim they were advising Turks on how to engage Russians. Their aggressive posture have telltale sign of Paki mentality.

But lets be realistic, there is only so much Puntin can do overtly to mitigate this loss of face.

Its whole NATO (hyenas) vs one nation. Even a nuke threat is meaningless, unless they want to dissolve their remaining economy.

They can wait till next chance (which will come soon). Turks are porkies at heart, they will make it their Atlantiq mistake.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 25 Nov 2015 03:26

the best plan Russians can have is to have erdogan meet his 72 and trigger a civil war in turkey ...and frankly that would be the best thing that happened to the world for a long time...

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 25 Nov 2015 03:29

Cain Marko wrote:That the Russians will respond to this, there is no doubt. Very likely via a proxy like Assad...which would not be a great move. Far better is to call the NATO bluff and have a couple of kloobs land on turkish solah base in the border area....kind if "oops, crossed over ny mijtake wonlee...navigation error" at the same time do some test launch of bulava et al...just to remind folks that war with bear can have very dire consequences.

I'm willing to bet that NATO deserts Turkey mighty fast and keeps it leashed.

i agree with this...the most important consequence of such an action besides delivering a Jhapad to the turks would be to prove tha NATO is nook nude onlee and attack on nato nanhas will have no consequence...

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 25 Nov 2015 03:30

WOW!! So, Lavrov was supposed to visit Turkey tomorrow and this happened. Turkey was told to do it or else?

Looks like someone in the you-yes stat-e dept has wicked sense of humor. In couple of days millions will celebrate the national holiday of Thanksgiving by killing million of large tasteless bird, turkey. Looks like someone in the dept decided to celebrate little early by feeding turkey to da-pooteen!!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Nov 2015 03:33

May The Russian celebrate true Turkey Fry Day !

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Nov 2015 03:50

Russia does not need to act irrationally. It just needs to go after the ISIS/Al-Nusra/FSA with more purpose, the goal should be complete obliteration, so by the time Russia is done with them, nothing is left of them. It can start by serving a few Daisy-cutters type MOABs for appetizer.

This will be a better revenge against the terrorists supporters who will be left with nothing to support.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Nov 2015 03:52

Even Surbs were decent enough not to kill US pilots even when receiving full fledged hammering.

People are setting a very dangerous precedence on things to come in future.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Nov 2015 03:56

Is that a murdered Russian pilot? What's the orange strap?

I think Putin will adopt massive bombing with the missile cruiser on standby. US may be well advised to evacuate Incirlik for a few days. I don't think NATO is eager to get into WW-3. If the missile cruiser is targeted, next step in escalation ladder is

At least one green F-16 is likely to have an engine malfunction soon - the best way to defuse the present situation. Best wishes for the pilot - may he land among nice Kurds.