Bharat Rakshak

gakakkad wrote:
thanks ..I never target Indian authors... Indian textbooks are very cheap in any case...Most Indian medical journals can be accessed free of cost on the publisher websites...

Indian authors are so good, but we don't give them enough credit because we are mental slaves of the West.
I did Engg in Electronics and Comm. For Electrical Engg classes, there was an author called Prof B.L Theraja. Wah wah what books the blessed man wrote. I just happened to buy one by chance, though in many cases the course would prescribe some gora author at huge prices. Integrated Electronics by Milman & Halkias is a book that everyone reads, but I thought it was a bakwaas book. All high funda stuff but no concept development from the basics though it was supposed to be a basic level course. Buggers had numerical problems at the end, but no solution or answers to compare again. How the hell is that helpful? They wanted you to buy a solution guide, but in India in the early 90s, that was not available. Engg Drawing by K.R Gopalakrishna was another awesome book. Taub & Schilling was another bakwaas book written by foreign authors.

We just needed to get over our shoddy printing and these books would make a killing. On the positive side, I see much better textbook printing in India these days.

Indian authors are so good, but we don't give them enough credit because we are mental slaves of the West.

true..in spite of Indian author books being good they are quite inexpensive...Binding and printing quality has reached western standard... In medicine , Indian author texts dominate in several subjects..they are being increasingly popular in the west too...authors are grossly underpaid..thankfully pirated versions of Indian texts have not been available on line till very recently ...

gakakkad, my point in mentioning the DMCA was to say that there is a mechanism to address pirated videos on video sites -- not that I think the DMCA is great.

About the number of Internet users, we may have to agree to disagree -- note that Flipkart, perhaps the biggest Internet success story in India, still has just 2.6 million users according to the latest issue of Business Today.

In any case, I just tried DailyMotion again and was able to access it, so that must mean that the ban has...gasp...been lifted. Pirates rejoice!

I agree that millman & halkias was not a good book. are there better books out there to understand basic electronics ? I would like to complete my ECE 200 level education which I could never properly get due to this book...scraped through the exams thats all.

Singha wrote:I agree that millman & halkias was not a good book. are there better books out there to understand basic electronics ? I would like to complete my ECE 200 level education which I could never properly get due to this book...scraped through the exams thats all.

GD, try this site:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/

vina wrote:

Raja Bose wrote: Now you know why I make fun of strategee types - they can't tell one piece of technology from another Saar "the world is moving into a place where the browser engine is the app run-time" == HTML5 onlee ji. So browser is the future onlee as far as apps runtime go, though native will be there at least for some core experiences in the short to mid term.

Ah.. Strat-e-jee types laugh back at you and say haa haa browser engine is the app run-time == HTML5 is not true! Even if apps are HTML5 based, and there is a customized runtime for that, how does the need for a browser come up ? It can and will go native.

Saar that run-time you are talking about is the browser engine - its not some "special" native run-time developed for HTML5 apps. What you strat-e-jee types are refering to as the browser is actually just some UI chrome on top of the browser engine (URL bar, reload button etc) - that UI chrome is not what is known in the trade as a browser. So yes, HTML5 apps run in the browser onlee (basically it is called a chrome-less browser). Trust me, I know this 1st hand and not thru strat-e-jee giri onlee

So if you use a Firefox or Fennec browser what is actually doing the Javascript and HTML for you is the Gecko browser engine. Similarly if you are using Chrome/ChromeOS, what you are actually using is the Chrome version of Webkit. When you run HTML5 apps, these browser engines are the run-time - there is no separate run-time for HTML5 apps and the overheads for HTML5 apps are no different than the browser's overhead.

vina wrote:
That is an evolutionary dead end me thinks like Adobe Flash on mobile. Too bloated with far too many overheads.

Nope. What you see in the video is a complete fully functional HTML5 based mobile device with smooth UX. I wonder why strat-e-jee types are confused about Flash run-time versus a browser engine (the latter is basically the app run-time for HTML5 apps) They are 2 totally different things except perhaps in Powerpoint slides

Raja Bose wrote: Saar that run-time you are talking about is the browser engine - its not some "special" native run-time developed for HTML5 apps. What you strat-e-jee types are refering to as the browser is actually just some UI chrome on top of the browser engine (URL bar, reload button etc) - that UI chrome is not what is known in the trade as a browser. So yes, HTML5 apps run in the browser onlee (basically it is called a chrome-less browser). Trust me, I know this 1st hand and not thru strat-e-jee giri onlee

Nope. A browser is lot , lot more than a layout / rendering engine such as Webkit /Gecko/ the IE whatever from Mickeysoft etc.

In addition to the UI /skins on top of the basic rendering, it actually provides a space for multiple processes to execute (Chrome for eg, has an individual process per tab), has to do all the process management, scheduling and all that stuff, security, an environment for plugins to execute, etc, etc.. stuff that an OS is designed to do anyways, and do far better.

It is sort of another OS "lite" built on top of the OS, on which programs execute. Sort of like the Web Application Servers on the Server side , only this is on the "client" side. Of course, this sort of layering, especially in an environment like mobile, severely constrained in power and form factor will see you build a brick with crappy performance and not the nice ultra thin sheets of machined aluminum with crisp sharp performance that Mahdi brought out! And guess where all the Moojahids are headed and plonking their money !

The run time I am talking about is not some airy fairy thing. But sort of like the common run times like IBM'S LE-370 (LE-370.pdf ! In fact, I always maintain that anything that the nanha munnas are talking about in Computing (virtualization, multi processer, multi node, grid, massively parallel, anything you can think of ) is just a rehash with glitzy Silly-Con Valley packaging of what IBM had already running with some 99.9999999999% uptime and reliability since the 1960s! For eg, think of the .Net Framework and the Common Language Runtime that all the Moojahids are going hoo-haa and rah -rah.. It is a Mickeysoft version of the LE-370 , with more overheads of course, because of the Java like Bytecode step . Note, there you can do away with that if you really want to cut that out.

So if you use a Firefox or Fennec browser what is actually doing the Javascript and HTML for you is the Gecko browser engine. Similarly if you are using Chrome/ChromeOS, what you are actually using is the Chrome version of Webkit. When you run HTML5 apps, these browser engines are the run-time - there is no separate run-time for HTML5 apps and the overheads for HTML5 apps are no different than the browser's overhead.

The WebKit /Gecko/Mickesoft equivalent whatever, is just a rendering engine that is usually shared across multiple programs (browser, email, other stand alone apps.. whatever), sort of packaged into dynamically loaded objects or whatever the new fangled renaming the Mickeysofts and Silly-Con valleyists have come up with such as DLL or something. Now that can pretty well be served up as a part of the basic OS as a service , maybe as part of the windowing tool kit and that can go native with common runtime (equivalent of LE370 / .net CLR or whatever) and be far more integrated into the basic OS and closer to the hardware.

The problem with the "all browser oriented and running on top of the brower" (like running on App Server for instance) , is just so much overhead on something that is inherently less efficient than the OS fo these sorts of things anyways.. All okay in the desktop /laptop world, where Intel squeezes more transistors with an even finer process and Samsung /whoever crashes prices of memory even further and Mickey comes up with an even more bloated software (okay, mickey seems to me cutting bloat with Windoze versions after Vista) and all this crashes twice a day, with ONE user on a machine with processing power and memory orders of magnitude more than a 1960s/70s machine that ran for literally 30/40 years non stop with all the razz mattaz supporting thousands of users ! Oh well, this truly is progress , oops Plogress!

And oh, I forgot to add. Just look at the http kind of stateless protocol, how you do transaction processing with that stateless protocol with the Web-App Servers of today, the multi threaded nature of that beast, etc, and look up CICS with it's similar stateless protocol, the way you do transaction processing there , the multi threading and how it scales into thousands of transactions per second and the similar boast by the AppServers, and tell me what is the effective net progress , since 1970?

Nope. What you see in the video is a complete fully functional HTML5 based mobile device with smooth UX. I wonder why strat-e-jee types are confused about Flash run-time versus a browser engine (the latter is basically the app run-time for HTML5 apps) They are 2 totally different things except perhaps in Powerpoint slides

Well, strat-e-jee types sometimes powerpoint slides in addition to looking and feeling slick, sometimes are right on the money. A rendering/browser engine is not a Browser (like I said earlier HTML5 != Browser ) which is a larger thing and running bloatware /plug in s on top of that browser in a mobile world, like you do on a desktop will see you making bricks, while Mahdi conquers the world with devices that are slick ,crisp and fast and are thin as sheets of machined aluminium

vina wrote: Of course, this sort of layering, especially in an environment like mobile, severely constrained in power and form factor will see you build a brick with crappy performance and not the nice ultra thin sheets of machined aluminum with crisp sharp performance that Mahdi brought out! And guess where all the Moojahids are headed and plonking their money !

Guess what the Mahdi is using for those crisp sharp performances when it comes to running HTML5 apps - yup, you guessed it, the iOS Webkit browser engine (in fact you can try it today on your iPhunwa). The same strategy as what ChromeOS/Android/WP/Symbian/WebOS/Boot2Gecko use - again to reiterate, its not some magical "separate & special" runtime which is used by HTML5 apps, it is simply a chrome-less browser instance, nothing more. And the performance of HTML5 apps in mobile is frequently soup-e-rear to native apps especially when it comes to speed and responsiveness - ask anybody who does profiling of such app run-times (hint: one major reason is the way browser engines today nicely use multi process architectures and abstract it away from the app developers).

Personally I have first hand experience building HTML5 run-times across multiple types of embedded and mobile platforms, some way more resource constrained than your average Android phunwa. BTW a browser engine is not just about layout and rendering any more - world has changed since the days of Netscape saar (I know you got your definition of a browser engine from wikipedia. ). All browser engines have their roots in rendering and layout engines but that is not the case any more so when one says a WebKit engine or a Gecko engine, they are no longer referring to just the rendering and layout parts onlee.

Like I said earlier, please go and learn about the actual technology in-depth instead of blustering it out here - its embarrassing to hear an otherwise super-smart & knowledgeable Ivy Liga YumBeeAye fella trying to fob off half-baked knowledge as fact . Plus I have publicly blasted superficially informed strat-e-jee folks in person for much less infraction during strat-e-jee/bidi meetings

Saar, going by what you are saying above it really looks like you don't know what you are talking about in this context plus you have some major confusion about what is what. If you are really interested in this topic, my sincere advice to you would be to go in-depth and try to learn about HTML5. Till then I do sincerely hope you are not making strat-e-jee in this area

I think every strat-e-jee fella who thinks he or she can do technology-related strat-e-jee needs to get down in the trenches once in a while, roll up their sleeves and experience 1st hand what the innards of the specific technology are (sorta like the Japanese used to make their executives work on the factory floor for a while). Technology moves fast hence even if you were an injineer 10 years ago and think you know the nuts & bolts, you are probably totally out of touch. As a result one gets opinions and decisions based on superficial "summarized" knowledge being passed off as wisdom and "future strat-e-jee". Ofcourse when the yellow matter hits the fan as a result, usually the fellas executing the crap get the blame instead of the geniuses who came up with the crap (the latter are probably already into some cushy consultancy or VP/SVP position by then ).

Moving this HTML5 run-time/browser discussion to Phunwa, Gizmo ityadi dhaaga otherwise breapers might complain as to why is HTML5 relevant to SDRE ITvity hain ji?

Raja Bose wrote:Moving this HTML5 run-time/browser discussion to Phunwa, Gizmo ityadi dhaaga otherwise breapers might complain as to why is HTML5 relevant to SDRE ITvity hain ji?

I can't find that thread ? Let me see if it is under the Burkha.

ok need some input on my neice's recent job offer. Recent graduate from one of many colleges in desh with Btech in IT. The company shall remain nameless except to say it is one of the IT major's in India. Two questions
1. Postion "Management Trainee"- 6 month probation period with transition to full time company payroll after. During the trainee period she would be on a 3 party company payroll kind of like a contractor followed by transtion as a full time employee. Is this practice standard in desh these days? Are there "lots of thank you see you later" after 6 months or do you really need to screw up badly in probation to not be made permanent later?
2. Initial job offer of 15k/month for the 6 months followed by presumably more if and when she transtitions into company payroll. What should be the expectation for full time salary after?
Apologies if this is all standard but wanted any input from the board on learned members on the board on what appears to be current industry practice in India.
Thanks

Yeah that standard procedure usually followed these days...some have a probation period of around 1 year

Management trainee after Btech ? Interesting, I thought that all folks who are hired for the management line as freshers are MBAs.

negi wrote:Management trainee after Btech ? Interesting, I thought that all folks who are hired for the management line as freshers are MBAs.

May be this technical jargon is used to circumvent labour laws. And perhaps people associated with law can clarify it better. Generally as per labour laws workers and management are treated as two separate groups of people. For workers there are very many statutes which clearly states how much hours a person can be asked to work, lunch & rest periods etc defined. Where as management cadre do not have such clear cut rules, the idea behind that these folks actually represent the management body. Another assumption is that management cadre gets other perks so as to compensate the difficulties faced in work.

PS: In nationalised banks there is more clearer demarcation as the clerks and sub-staff have a different union, and officers and junior managers have another.

Sachin wrote: May be this technical jargon is used to circumvent labour laws. And perhaps people associated with law can clarify it better. Generally as per labour laws workers and management are treated as two separate groups of people. For workers there are very many statutes which clearly states how much hours a person can be asked to work, lunch & rest periods etc defined. Where as management cadre do not have such clear cut rules, the idea behind that these folks actually represent the management body. Another assumption is that management cadre gets other perks so as to compensate the difficulties faced in work.

PS: In nationalised banks there is more clearer demarcation as the clerks and sub-staff have a different union, and officers and junior managers have another.

Labour laws entail protection for "Workmen" under the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947, and the Trade Unions Act, 1926. In my opinion, no one joining as a graduate engineer would anyway be classified under the benefits accruing to persons under either of these acts. They would not qualify as workmen, per the understanding of the acts evolved through reading of the bare act, and judicial dicta. Supervisory staff is exempted from the protections of these laws despite even sometimes coming in below the monetary threshold.

Anyway, this is probably done for ease of removal from service, in the event of need for dismissal. Furthermore, there may be some benefit in terms of not having to deal with statutory provisions like opening a PF acct, etc.

negi wrote:Management trainee after Btech ? Interesting, I thought that all folks who are hired for the management line as freshers are MBAs.

I know MUL ( Maruti) hires in the same way.
All their IIT/NIT recruits are taken in position of mgmt-trainee and start as asst.Mgr etc after probation!!

thanks guys.. Looks legit then and standard practice... There is a question about Job responsibilites as a Mgmt trainee.. so will find out after joining which is next week or so..

Cross Posting..

hnair wrote:The problem with IT has always been this: without initial Govt hand-holding (at both infra and policy level), nothing is going to take off, whatever the snake-oil guys from Gulf whisper in our ears about "have land, will raise capital". It has been the case with Bangalore (Keonics) as well as Hyderabad (Hitec). Without a master plan for a planned IT zone, existing A-class anchor clientele and revenue roadmap, any project is going to struggle.

True. True. The problem with TVM , even Kochi is that it is lot less cosmopolitan than say BLR, Pune, Hyd and of course NCR . It will be very difficult to get a lot of outsiders to move there. Chennai is sort of an exception. Chennai , despite whatever ,was one of the "big 4" (remember BLR and HYD are STILL 2nd tier according the Income Tax folks and were really so until very recently, okay, BLR is tier 1, don't know about HYD, maybe sorta there, but not yet there) and in addition, Chennai is the "silent" 900lb Gorilla in IT/Vity. It is just that for long , it never got the self seeking attention of BLR . Hyd is really an also ran poodle that yells, yip-yip , far behind, long after the big dogs, BLR and Chennai have left it in the dust , but it still sort of runs.

Chennai , despite HQ being in Mumbai is the home of TCS! TCS is an out and out hard core Chennai company and for long, TCS profits were larger than the revenues of Infy and Wipro COMBINED. Infy and Wipro outperformed TCS for close to a decade and a half and about the time TCS went public, TCS pulled up their socks and are now opening space between themselves and their Bangalore rivals.

Oh, and another pure Chennai based big dog is CTS! They too have performed remarkably in the past decade and the half and have now overtaken the 85 percenters and are snapping at the heels of Revered Co. TCS and CTS (which really sounds like a re-arragement of TCS, which it really is..) are hard core Chennai companies . Folks from the Mid 90s will remember the 10s of TCS campuses strewn all over Chennai and the former Dun & Bradstreet operating out of a small premises there.

Both TCS and CTS are firing on all cylinders and at this rate, Chennai is going to give BLR a run for the money in IT/Vity. The IT/vity pool (ok, I will be very very politically incorrect here .. primarily of Tam Brahms) of Chennai was large, very big sized and right there. Most other places wont have the Chennai like ready made skill base to make up for a rather more "regional" / less cosmopolitan make up. That is the problem with Coimbatore as well.

It is not without reason, the only place that gives the real heebie-jeebies and fire storms of "outrage" to the Karnataka folks (and also KL folks)on any issue is TN, which is the 900lb Gorilla . Not AP , which is regarded with amused indulgence.

And yes, Chennai too has it's good share of product companies now, with the Tidel park and all those guys, including internet based ones (ebay, Amazon, etc..)

Vina saar has in built (like a Paki) love for Hyderabad or in IIT Madras must have nightmares in Kaveri with a wrong room mate....

pentaiah wrote:Vina saar has in built (like a Paki) love for Hyderabad

That kind of "love" I reserve for Dilli onree.

or in IIT Madras must have nightmares in Kaveri with a wrong room mate....

No room mates in IIT-M. We had a room to ourselves right from the day we joined.

Vina saar, it seems like both Paypal & E-bay are moving bases to Bangalore soon. Met a guy who will be in very senior level management of Paypal India (he is currently in US...RTIing next year) and he was here in BLR a few weeks ago interviewing folks for offices here.

Zynda wrote:Vina saar, it seems like both Paypal & E-bay are moving bases to Bangalore soon. Met a guy who will be in very senior level management of Paypal India (he is currently in US...RTIing next year) and he was here in BLR a few weeks ago interviewing folks for offices here.

I thought it was only Paypal. They are setting up new here. My understanding was eBay stays put in Chennai.

INFY and Wipro continue to disappoint. a few yrs ago the big3 were nearly same in headcount and revenue. but TCS has now opened a big gap and marching very steadily onward. they do not seem too dependent on just the financial sector unlike infy. also they really take care of their senior managers , and not that many choices once you settle in Chennai. infy/wipro has to deal with the fact any hot co in application or product space can readily poach from its ranks. a lot of infy and wipro alums have gone out and started small cos though - a net gain for the country.

I think the gap will just continue to increase...

I wouldn't wish an IT industry on Chennai. All that cost of living increase with little to show for any improvement to the city. No thanks. B'lore can have it all.

I work with the HCL folks out of Avadi and Vadapalani on an everyday basis and having graduated out of a college from the city know lots of people still working there. The whole TamBrahms forming the backbone of the IT industry in Chennai is not true.

Singha wrote:INFY and Wipro continue to disappoint. a few yrs ago the big3 were nearly same in headcount and revenue. but TCS has now opened a big gap and marching very steadily onward. they do not seem too dependent on just the financial sector unlike infy. also they really take care of their senior managers , and not that many choices once you settle in Chennai. infy/wipro has to deal with the fact any hot co in application or product space can readily poach from its ranks. a lot of infy and wipro alums have gone out and started small cos though - a net gain for the country.

I think the gap will just continue to increase...

No one can get as deep down and dirty as TCS, TCS is sort of the Unkil of the IT world. In the 2008-2009 period, Chandra, the now CEO cracked the whip and directed all Business Relationship Managers in the US to move to India and work the night shifts. Infy will never get down to the billing rates of TCS (I think Infy3.0 will as they have realized that there is no other way to play the game). Infy was always snobbish and with the attitude "quality reigns of quantity onreee" at the same time unabashedly hiring low quality hires who would have a 1/100000000000000 chance in clearing their freshers test. This hypocrisy and a lack of direction has led to Infy to where it is today but TCS though at the same widely trumpeting on its "TATA values" played the dirty game right from the start. I have never come across a single mid-level manager or base level "code coolie" who is happy with TCS and its processes which is overall an eyewash in many aspects. TCS has no qualms in ignoring its highly politics-driven working environment and absolutely anti-employee policies for it knows that folks still vie for it like flies do to zam zam -- the only reason being the onsite opportunities. Now there is this rule that only 4+ years of experience folks can make it onsite, I was expecting to see it hit hard on TCS's low level attrition but apparently there has been none.

in my era (1995 UG campus hiring), the INFY sal was 2X of TCS (4000 gross vs 8000 gross). wipro system was somewhere in between. INFY was perceived as the elite and good paymaster then vs the other two with ESOPs also. and TCS had (has?) a night shift in mumbai then....my fresher buddies got sandbagged for that and worked in that shift for a while.

maybe somewhere in between they should have stopped playing the volume game, remained a mid sized co, hired only the elite A++ types and moved into the product spaces also. instead they became just another volume player in a market where others are always willing to lower the bar.

it will be tough for them to compete now, with the higher attrition and cost structure in BLR now. there was talk of moving center of gravity to Pune but TCS/cognizant will be there too!

I also believe TCS started the trend of "bonds" and locking up the employees degree certificates for "safekeeping" to prevent employees just disappearing without notice

More from the IT-Vity circus:
Makes life, thanks to qualified wife

Nandan R, 33, a resident of Papareddypalya, Nagarbhavi second stage, had been hired as deputy general manager by IBM at a salary of Rs 24 lakh a year, thanks to his wife’s marks card. Nandan had even obtained a PG degree in management using marks cards faked from his wife’s educational documents as proof his qualification. The fraud was discovered following a complaint by his wife, Latha to police.

After passing out from at St Joseph’s Boys school, Nandan joined MEI Polytechnic College for a diploma course in electronics and c, but failed to clear the course.
The fraudulent marks cards were created from photo copies of Latha’s original marks cards of pre-university and BCom courses. Nandan photocopied the marks cards by putting his name over that of his wife, and had the photocopies attested by a notary, police said.

The attested testimonials were submited to Hewlett-Packard in 2005. Based on the scores indicated, Nandan was made a manager. In 2007, he applied for a PG degree in Management with the Indian Institute of Management at Kozhikode in Kerala, and passed the course. He then joined Amicorp as director of marketing in 2008, and moved to IBM in August 2011.

Seems IIM-K has a poor background check mechanism then?

Zynda wrote:Vina saar, it seems like both Paypal & E-bay are moving bases to Bangalore soon. Met a guy who will be in very senior level management of Paypal India (he is currently in US...RTIing next year) and he was here in BLR a few weeks ago interviewing folks for offices here.

As per this ET article : E-bay (which owns Paypal) has more than 2K+ people dev centres in Chennai and they are setting up a 2nd Dev centre in India and that is coming up in Bengaluru. The plan is to use this office for both E-bay and Paypal's development needs.

Little gets published about the diverse IT work being done in Chennai (as is the nature of Chennai & TN in general - pretty low key, 'marketing & advertising' wary). Cisco has 2 of its own development centres in Chennai (both on OMR) working on embedded s/w systems (mostly Embedded Linux & similar RTOSs from ST, Nucleus, QNX on MIPS, ARM etc) for digital cable TV technologies...reportedly providing STB s/w for all geographies ranging from the US/Canada to Europe to East Asia. This is beyond whatever work that HCL and a few others are doing for Cisco from chennai. Recently came to know that Fiat/Chrysler have their own 1K+ people working for their Automobile R&D/IT divisions in Chennai. Data Patterns, ZoHo and a few more interesting chennai based companies that pop up in my mind. Read below an article on promising start-ups operating in Chennai and catering to the world.

how-a-new-breed-of-tech-startups-is-powering-chennai-as-a-global-hot-spot

Singha wrote:it will be tough for them to compete now, with the higher attrition and cost structure in BLR now. there was talk of moving center of gravity to Pune but TCS/cognizant will be there too!

They could reduce attrition by laying off people, and could also reduce competition through acquisitions. Is there something in Indian law that prevents them from responding in the way an American corporation would in such situations?

vera_k wrote:They could reduce attrition by laying off people, and could also reduce competition through acquisitions. Is there something in Indian law that prevents them from responding in the way an American corporation would in such situations?

The "lay off" (hire and fire stuff) generally has never been popular in India, IMHO. Perhaps the situation may change after another 5-10 years. I heard that even during the last round of recession 3 years back many of the IT/Vity Majors (and Colonels and Brigadiers) tried to bulldoze people into "resigning" . And when the press gets the wind of it, the usual excuse is that these folks actually resigned (and were not fired).

Zynda wrote:Vina saar, it seems like both Paypal & E-bay are moving bases to Bangalore soon. Met a guy who will be in very senior level management of Paypal India (he is currently in US...RTIing next year) and he was here in BLR a few weeks ago interviewing folks for offices here.

Thanks for the news!

The next wave of tech companies from India will be startups targeting the global (which mostly means US) market. The difference will be that they will move most of their operations abroad at their first funding round. The factors driving this are more entrepreneurs familiar with the global market for tech products, and slightly easier access to global VC funding in India. However, it is hard to sell products half a world away from your customers (very unlike outsourcing), so most management in these companies will migrate to the US at the seed round or Series A, leaving mostly simpler development here.

The Indian market for tech is a dud, notwithstanding all the hype since the early 2000s, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

We are seeing lot of proposals of India tech companies to expand to US market.

indian market for tech will continue to be a dud. IMO PCs/networks (even simple wi-fi stuff) are too complex for indian business. maybe an affordable iPad like device connected to 3G/4G with many cloud services might change it.

So the Indian IT industry will be frozen in the "Gelf" model of providing trained bodies for others.

vina wrote:Cross Posting..


Chennai , despite HQ being in Mumbai is the home of TCS! TCS is an out and out hard core Chennai company and for long, TCS profits were larger than the revenues of Infy and Wipro COMBINED. Infy and Wipro outperformed TCS for close to a decade and a half and about the time TCS went public, TCS pulled up their socks and are now opening space between themselves and their Bangalore rivals.

INFY and WIT both have revenues of $7 Billion each in ttm, you men to say that TCS's profit is more than $14Billion? I bet even TCS's revenue dosen't exceed $14 Billion! TCS at best may be 30% larger than INFY, it always has been bigger and the gap may be growing but no where near "TamBrahm - Chennai" levels you are painting.

thats right. I detect a degree of undue truimphalism.

He's probably talking of the scenario in late eighties / early nineties.

Marten wrote:
For those dissing TCS, I find no difference in the people policies from the other big 4, and if you haven't heard cribbing from mid-level managers in any of the big 4, you haven't met enough folks.

Not sure if you were referring to me, but no one is dissing TCS here. If you read my post carefully, you will note that the content was meant to explain why TCS is top dog because no one can get as mean as them. Again, its not that I haven't heard cribbing from the other big ones , its just that I havent heard any of them hear how internal cost-cutting (through a shared services model) is making life difficult for them on a day to day basis, the ones I have only heard about are on the usual stuff like lack of resources, bonuses, long hours and other misc ones like transportation.

Marten wrote:Fact is the staffing model works; the policies are built to handle voluntary and involuntary attrition.

Who's disputing that and no one does it better than TCS. Its a surprise how they dont have base level attrition right now given the 4+ years of mandatory experience requirement for application of visas.

He's probably talking of the scenario in late eighties / early nineties.

Even earlier. TCS was much larger than the late 70s born pipsqueaks for close to 2 decades, with TCS profits being larger than the revenues of the Bangalore twins combined!