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was a day of nail-biting suspense that followed a night of hectic political activity. But its denouement that came the same evening was surprisingly calm. The first strike of Wednesday came from Pindi. The Inter Services Public Relations, the military’s information wing, released a hard-hitting press statement that took to task the prime minister who had in an interview to a Chinese journalist on Monday inexplicably announced that the answers submitted to the Supreme Court by the Chief of Army Staff and the head of the ISI had not been filed following the rules of procedure.That the military officers were not amused by this revelation was evident on Tuesday, but the hard-hitting statement that the ISPR released a day later took everyone by surprise. It said the allegations of the prime minister had “serious ramifications with potentially grievous consequences for the country.”
The press release set the channels ablaze. But what set them on fire were two other news items that came back to back.One was the news about a brigadier being posted to command the 111 brigade – that is historically moved to secure Islamabad when the military swings into action to send a government home and a general enters PTV to address his fellow countrymen.At around the same time, the prime minister in his infinite wisdom moved to sack the defence secretary whom he has already trained his guns on earlier.In the last week of December, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani had thundered in the assembly that he would not tolerate a state within a state and had later claimed that he was referring to the defence secretary who had moved paperwork around without the proper authorisation.By this time, analysts on both sides of the political divide were frothing at the mouths on television. Those with a soft spot for the military were predicting — without any proof — that the prime minister had given the post of defence secretary to Nargis Sethi, who is seen to be close to the government because she, unlike her predecessor, would sign the notification to remove the COAS.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/320327/hila ... ashington/
Hillary Clinton formally welcomes Sherry Rehman to Washington
"WASHINGTON: Sherry Rehman held her first meeting with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Washington as Pakistan’s ambassador designate to the United States, in Washington on Wednesday. The meeting between the two leaders comes at a time when Pakistan-US relations are at an all-time low.
A State Department statement released following the meeting said that “the Secretary was pleased to welcome Pakistan’s appointed Ambassador, Sherry Rehman, to Washington today. They discussed the importance of our two countries recommitting to working together on areas of common interest. The Department looks forward to further interactions with the appointed ambassador after she presents her credentials at the White House.......”
What set of yellowing teeth she has! Just like Djinnah I guess.
Gautam
SBajwa wrote:Shashi Tharoor is too suave and gentleman to be able to tell his hosts that he is as disgusted to be hosted by pigs as india is disgusted to have such porkies in neighborhood . We need some Haryanvi Jat to put this into their skull.
Bajwaji,
While I was very impressed with Mr. Tharoor's skills, he was way above the three pakistanis that faced him in debating skills and sophistication. But in my heart I also realize that such discussions should be held with civilized persons only and Pakistanis do no longer fall in this category. The Captain Saurabh Kalia incident has forever changed my mind. We should not indulge in light hearted banter with these people any more.
Gautam
Sri wrote:SS Sir, the inquiry was rigged. They did not invite US Govt to provide evidence of involvement of ISI in the killing. The inquiry report categorically states that there is NO proof of involvement any Govt department in the killing.
Is the report available in public domain ? They have not yet revealed the report as to who killed Liaquat Ali Khan (though everybody knows it was the 'Establishment' of Ghulam Mohammed(later President of Pakistan), Chaudhry Mohammed Ali (later Prime Minister of Pakistan) and Iskander Mirza).
Not in public domain yet. But my information is based on 'Bolta Pakistan' 6 jan edition. This is revealed by non other than Nusrat javed.
SBajwa wrote:Shashi Tharoor is too suave and gentleman to be able to tell his hosts that he is as disgusted to be hosted by pigs as india is disgusted to have such porkies in neighborhood . We need some Haryanvi Jat to put this into their skull.
Bajwaji - the exact opposite is also a valid argument. Pakis normally behave like that Haryanvi jat might be expected to speak. I believe some of us are looking for a "mooh tod" verbal jawab in the absence of physical punishment of Pakistan. Every time India has openly accused Pakistan of something, they have done an equal equal back. Like Hindu terrorism. So far there has not been a chirp in response to Tharoor - probably because most Pakis did not understand him. But Tharoor has said things (including a subtle dig at how his views differed from MMS's views) in such a way that it is very difficult to argue and say that he was being insincere or unfairly aggressive. He was saying things while sounding like he wasn't saying them. I found that really funny. It makes a change from the usual rounds where we accuse them and they accuse us back. Or we don't even accuse them subtly like Tharoor and they still accuse us.
I bet Paki responses will come to Tharoor's words in days or weeks when they figure out what he has said and cognitive dissonance sets in. By then they would have lost the chance.
+1
He has dealt with Pakis cleverly. If BRF language is used, they will do an equal equal as you have said. But what effect does Tharoor's talk has on irrational Pakis remains to be seen.
jrjrao wrote:The American-Pakistani Cold War?
Christine Fair, January 10, 2012
{quote}While one cannot underestimate the possibility of further destabilization in Pakistan, the international community may in fact help incentivize Pakistan to fix its numerous governance problems by embracing the possibility that Pakistan can fail. Then perhaps Pakistan would begin taking the necessary steps to become the sovereign state that Pakistanis and the rest of the world alike want Pakistan to become.
{/quote}
What's that supposed to mean, in concrete terms?
It means that we call their nuclear bluff. We let the pakis know that we are willing to let it fail and face the consequences. Once they understand that and realize that all their privileges will go down the drain, the army and the elites will have real incentive to work out of this mess.
For the umpteenth time we are about to witness the Paki uniformed tribals savage its democracy,or what ws left of its democracy the last time it was savaged and ravaged by the barbarian tribals.The only difference is that these days the savage,ravaging barbarians are mostly bearded! That is barring the moustachioed Mush-a-rat,who is a busy polishing his medals ,ready to return to ravage his nation again.His Sancho Panza ,the great Khan,fast at bowling maidens over ,is the pretender to the lesser throne of premier .With him at his side,the bandicoot will yet again plot and plan and fulminate against India and rake in the shekels,sorry the riyals,dollars and rem. from a rich Uncle,a crafty Chinaman and oily sheikhs.The nations love nothing better than a military dictatorship rulign Pak,whose forces can ne hired like rent-boys by the hour for any dirty tricks that need to be conducted against Pak's mortal enemy India.
What a fearful farce!
According to Najam Sethi, there will be no coup and jernails have no intention of a coup as the conditions (be it economic, security etc) are not ripe for it. All this drama of firing defense secretary and flatulence from Groper Gilani and terse warning from Army through ISPR happened because of misunderstandings between TSPA and TSPG.
PESHAWAR, Jan 11: People displaced from Khyber Agency`s Bara tehsil and currently sheltering in tents and rented houses have complained of prolonged curfew and closure of Bara bazaar, educational institutions and hospitals, and demanded an early end to ongoing military offensive in their area to ease their misery.
They rejected the ongoing Bara offensive as `a drama` and demanded its end without delay for the relief of displaced people, who were unable to rent houses and had insufficient food.
Mr Mohkam, Mr Akbar and Mr Hannan said the war on terrorism was `others` war` imposed on the people of tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.
They said tribal people always rendered great sacrifices for Pakistan but rulers selected their areas for `so-called war on terror` to please the US.
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's military chief met top commanders on Thursday amid a widening rift between the powerful armed forces and the civilian government.
Military spokesman Maj. Muhammad Ali Diyal declined to say what the talks at army headquarters were about, but the meeting is likely to fuel speculation about the army's next move in the country's political and legal crisis.
While most analysts say army chief Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has little appetite for a coup, they say the generals may be happy to allow the Supreme Court to dismiss the government by "constitutional means."
General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, called Pakistani Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani to discuss with him military-to-military ties between the two countries, his spokesman has said. "The call was cordial and professional. It is a routine relationship and another opportunity to understand what is most important to each military as we confront common threats," Col Dave Lapan, spokesman of the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said.
The Pentagon official indicated that the timing of the call had nothing to do with the latest developments going on inside Pakistan.
The call was planned well in advance.
"This call had been planned and occurred yesterday as the scheduling worked for both," Lapan said. The last call between the two before this one was on December 21.
Amid growing tension between the civilian and military leadership in Pakistan, US has said it had not sought or received any assurances from the Pakistani army that it would not stage a coup. "I'm not aware that we've sought any assurances, and I don't think we're aware that we've been given any. This is a matter for Pakistani officials and the government leaders there, military and civilian, to work out," said Navy Capt John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman.
Meanwhile, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little said US chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen Martin E Dempsey, has spoken to Pakistani Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.
Pakistan's military has publicly rebuked Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani over an escalating row. The army warned of "serious ramifications with potentially grievous consequences" after the PM criticised military leaders in a media interview.
shiv wrote:IMO the key here is America. If there is a coup and the US accepts the army then all is lost. But I bet the civilians are getting bold because there is a tacit agreement between USA (and India that the army needs to be dumped and dumped gently. Any rash move from the army will make Pakistan lose its prime sponsor the USA.
What Killany discussed with China is a mystery, but I can surmise what might have occurred
Kiyani: If I take over will you support me?
Chini: Yes
Kiyani: But if the US stops paying us will you pay us instead?
Chini: What for?
Kiyani: I mean what if India attacks us?
Chini: You must mend relations with India
Kiyani: But we are busy helping you by catching Xinjiang terrorists sponsored by RAW from Afghanistan
Chini: Thank you. You have to continue that also.
Kiyani: How can we do that and fight India also?
Chini: Well you are the one who wants to take over the country in addition to all this work. You will be responsible. Our work must be done.
Kiyani: What if India attacks?
Chini: You have to mend relations with India.
The overall idea seems to be to checkmate the army and stop it from taking over with every important country expressing support for the civilians and an unstated threat of unspecified consequences to the army if they take over.
To add to the above.
If all that Kiyani got out of China were words but nothing of real substance, it might have emboldened dus-percenti and groper. The statement that triggered the current crisis was given in the middle of Kiyani's visit, probably on the 3rd or 4th day. By that time all the important meeting were over. Either the outcome of the visit was know or may have been guessed by the paki government.
All the literature on the Pakhani army says that they consider themselves as the saviours of Pakistan and have nothing but contempt for civilian politicians. Even if Kiyanai did not want to conduct a coup there will be many angry Paki army men. There exists a small hope/possibility of a colonel's coup? Even better.
The Pakistan army will prove that it can defeat Paki civilians!
shiv wrote:All the literature on the Pakhani army says that they consider themselves as the saviours of Pakistan and have nothing but contempt for civilian politicians. Even if Kiyanai did not want to conduct a coup there will be many angry Paki army men. There exists a small hope/possibility of a colonel's coup? Even better.
The Pakistan army will prove that it can defeat Paki civilians!
They have not succeeded in taking on the Indians, militants, americans and the balochis.
Maybe its time to prove paki mardangi by taking on the paki civilians onlee
shiv wrote:All the literature on the Pakhani army says that they consider themselves as the saviours of Pakistan and have nothing but contempt for civilian politicians. Even if Kiyanai did not want to conduct a coup there will be many angry Paki army men. There exists a small hope/possibility of a colonel's coup? Even better.
The Pakistan army will prove that it can defeat Paki civilians!
Or will he surrender with 93000 other fauji's, like his illustrious fellow jernail did in 71?
vikramd wrote:Pakistan army warns PM Gilani over criticisms
Pakistan's military has publicly rebuked Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani over an escalating row. The army warned of "serious ramifications with potentially grievous consequences" after the PM criticised military leaders in a media interview.
Traits can hardly change. Servant knows master is also a beggar. With the usual gun to their own head piskology, I wonder could the serious ramifications with grevious consequences be that the army will blow itself up and leave the country vulnerable to evil India?
LAHORE: Akhtar Iqbal Dar, a member of the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) central media committee, announced the formation of a new faction, PTI Nazriati (Ideological) on Wednesday. Dar said that he along with other veteran activists of the party were being ignored by Imran Khan and had been forced to take this decision because of his attitude.
He said that Pakistanis, particularly the new generation, saw the PTI as a symbol of positive change, but after the rally in Lahore it had been converted into a party of “Makhdooms, Legharis, Waderas, looters, turncoats and timeservers.”
Leveling serious allegation against Imran Khan, he said that he had become a tool of the land mafia, drug mafia and the Jewish lobby.
Dar said that Khan’s children and properties were abroad and questioned why he would bring a revolution.
QUETTA: United States Consul General William Martin announced $10 million in aid on Wednesday for rehabilitation and provision of educational and health facilities in the Duregi area of Lasbela district in Balochistan.
Martin announced the multi-million dollar aid package on behalf of the US government, while visiting a girl’s primary school in Duregi.
“I am pleased to announce $10 million aid on the behalf of United States for the rehabilitation and provision of providing facilities to schools. I will also propose development projects for the area, specifically in the water sector.”
The US Consul General also visited the newly constructed dams for irrigation and was briefed by irrigation officials about how they were benefiting the people. Martin appreciated the initiatives taken to improve the education sector in Duregi, particularly for girls, as well as steps taken to overcome the problems pertaining to drinking water.
US officials were visiting the area on an invitation from Speaker Balochistan Assembly, Aslam Bhootani. Officials comprised of political officers and US aid representatives.
Bhootani lauded the keen interest shown by the US Consul General and appreciated his announcement.
Just a general question here.
The mass protests that you see in TSP - do all these abduls come out spontaneously or are they "Five rupees chicken biriyani" kind?
To me, it appears highly unlikely that you can have a few thousand people turn up just like that for a protest voluntarily.
If I were a head of a religious group wanting to protesting against the "Juice" or "Amreekis" and if I want to show "strength"/power, I would have to pay for this no?
You collect your biriyani packet at the starting point and your Rs. 5 at the end point of protest.
It means that we call their nuclear bluff. We let the pakis know that we are willing to let it fail and face the consequences. Once they understand that and realize that all their privileges will go down the drain, the army and the elites will have real incentive to work out of this mess.
I am just going by the excerpts posted here.
Who is that "we". India? And how do we call their nuke bluff? By resuming kirket matches with TSP as Tharoor indicated?
US has the capability to call TSP's nuke bluff. But will it? What is logical, what is correct, what is obvious, what is the right thing in terms of making TSP behave etc is not the issue here. What is of paramount importance is what are US's interests. And for those following my views and those who agree with me on BR, we have articulated many a times that containment of India using TSP in every sphere is US's pre-eminent objective in "South Asia". Please read today's NYT editorial on the inconsequential circus going on in TSP
a stable Pakistan is critical to America’s interests in the region.
Just as NYT maintains silence over the killing of Iranian scientists by CIA/Mossad, likewise, the real objectives of why a "a stable Pakistan is critical to America’s interests in the region" is best left unsaid from US's perspective.
CRamS wrote:Who is that "we". India? And how do we call their nuke bluff? By resuming kirket matches with TSP as Tharoor indicated
We would be US & India. US because as you rightly pointed out, is the main proponent of the line "Pakistan cannot be allowed to fail". India because if there are any consequences, it will impact us first.
The American-Pakistani Cold War?
Christine Fair, January 10, 2012
While one cannot underestimate the possibility of further destabilization in Pakistan, the international community may in fact help incentivize Pakistan to fix its numerous governance problems by embracing the possibility that Pakistan can fail. Then perhaps Pakistan would begin taking the necessary steps to become the sovereign state that Pakistanis and the rest of the world alike want Pakistan to become.
I have simply stated my understanding of the above statement of C. unfair in response to a query.
Just a general question here.
The mass protests that you see in TSP - do all these abduls come out spontaneously or are they "Five rupees chicken biriyani" kind?
To me, it appears highly unlikely that you can have a few thousand people turn up just like that for a protest voluntarily.
If I were a head of a religious group wanting to protesting against the "Juice" or "Amreekis" and if I want to show "strength"/power, I would have to pay for this no?
You collect your biriyani packet at the starting point and your Rs. 5 at the end point of protest.
More like 5 rupees Kawaa Biryani
But on a more serious note, what are the compulsions for a Kooo,
Ghazis already have the system by its balls and their is no threat to that status. So why?
Memogate looks like a Hijda threatening to raise his/her/its saree. Nothing there, no point getting excited about nothing.
Reminds me of one of my friends who used to say 'Something is better than nothing and nothing is better then nonsense'.
This is the second drone strike in 3 days. So instead of an apology all the US is doing is rubbing salt into their wounds. What happens to their H&D now?
Even better.