Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 03 Feb 2014 01:08

RajeshA wrote:
Muppalla wrote:Regarding Saffron base, the so called saffron base in India is 5% and leaders can always keep them happy and live in opposition and that option is there.
But without that saffron base of 5%, the other 35% are also not going to find their way to the polling booth.

I personally don't want NaMo to go dark-saffron. I don't want NaMo to make any comments which can be construed as anti-Muslim, but he needs to express sympathy with Hindus who have got the brunt of Jihad.

What language he uses is up to him!

He did that. The question here is he did not to do to the expectations. A lot here wants punch lines.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Feb 2014 01:12

KJoishy wrote:MMS will not run, Rahul Gandhi cannot run for PM.
Who else is there from Congress?
Chidu?

Chidu got his Chaddi in a twist with that NDTV scam!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Feb 2014 01:16

RajeshA wrote:
KJoishy wrote:MMS will not run, Rahul Gandhi cannot run for PM.
Who else is there from Congress?
Chidu?
Chidu got his Chaddi in a twist with that NDTV scam!

Nandan may have been deep selected

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Feb 2014 01:24

chetak wrote:
KJoishy wrote:MMS will not run, Rahul Gandhi cannot run for PM.
Who else is there from Congress?
Chidu?
RajeshA wrote:Chidu got his Chaddi in a twist with that NDTV scam!
Nandan may have been deep selected

Ford Foundation is taking over the reins of the secularists. Nandan Nilekani takes over Congress. Old guard is removed. Kejriwal forms the other party. Then Nilekani and Kejriwal can hunt as a double pack.

I even wonder if the process against Sonia Gandhi and Ahmed Patel going on in Italy is really to provide them an escape pod.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 03 Feb 2014 02:03

It was a skilfully worded and delivered speech, and there was no lack of participation from the crowd. I don't understand why some are grumbling about Shri Modi not wooing the Jats enough. I think he clearly did so, in the context of providing a riot-free UP, and highlighting the goon mentality of SP. I don't know what more is being expected by people. Shri Modi played the game correctly by not dwelling on the details of the Muzz riots. He rose above that and the crowd responded.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 03 Feb 2014 02:17

Not clear as to what the complaints are about.. Lots of speakers before NaMo made the points some people wanted NaMo to make directly. His main goal is now to appear statesmanlike and increase his likeability (his competence and hindutva credentials do not need establishing; Kejriwal on the other hand is easily likeable.. people differ on this just by their persona.. has nothing to do with their track record or ideology or ethics). The focus on NE India was surprising but again it shows his appetite for trying out new things. Rajnath didn't do too badly either; his booming voice and cultured language helps. Kalyan Singh sounded meandering and awful as did Vinay Katiyar but they did say things that some folks here wanted NaMo to say. Its not just about what you say but how you say it. I think NaMo and many others (but not all) hit the right notes. It was a difficult to organize and manage rally and that it went without major problems is itself a big positive.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Feb 2014 02:25

AFAI understand, Jats want support from BJP and rest of Bharat in their fight against M's of Western UP and to teach a lesson to SP and Muslims for taking panga with them (the lynching of the boys protecting their sister and targeting their women in general and the maha panchayat assembled to take action - the sequence of events leading to muzaffarnagar riots and after effects )

They imho dont require weak sounding things like empathy or sympathy -as they are resource rich, organised (in conjunction with other kindred castes) in numbers and in attitude strong enough to give it back (unlike other communities like KPs -who lack numbers and confidence) against rampaging Muslims in Western UP . They want govt support against Azam Khans of UP and BJP will oblige both in center and state(eventually) levels.

Previously Jats used to be a combined vote bank with M's for SP or Congi untill M's began taking panga with them in the past few years. So they came back to Hindutvavaadi fold by announcing support to BJP and standing with other Hindu communities ( even dumping their own old jaativaadi setups like RLD) .

Good for Jats,good for BJP and good for Bharat. Others like SCs and Yadavs too will understand the true nature of the beast and come back . Its only a matter of time.

Importantly other weaker Hindu communities in UP - dalits and lower castes have not escaped the Jihadi rampages and their women too are being regularly targeted and raped(but people are oblivious of their plight - here I use "plight" because most are poor unorganised and are lacking confidence to stand up against the Jihadis) as their leaders like Mullah yadavs or Mayavatis have forsaken them for sikular vote bank considerations - these are the real vulnerable sections now in Western UP and NaMo and BJP should reach out to them along with Jats and fashion a grand Hindu coalition showing collective finger to the sikular parties .

If this response in GE2014 sustains till UP assembly elections and further ...
After 5 years of getting it from all sides M's too should straighten up and learn to fear consequences even if they are 25% in Western UP.

So Jats along with all other Hindu communities in Western UP are raring to capture power and teach some well needed lessons (the ones that can be taught daily by controlling law and order machinery in a govt) to Jihadis.

So whats this hulla gulla on what looks to be a deliberately toned down speech in front of an enormous and angry Jat gathering hain ji?

"Angry" here being the operating word.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 03 Feb 2014 02:29

RoyG wrote:Who the hell cares about temple politics anymore? Get with the times. We need development and education reform. Keep temples and religious affairs out of the government net and let society take care of it.

Isn't this the very definition of secularism that congress has been spreading? Like it or not, India is a dharmic nation. Our culture does not exist anywhere else and has nowhere else to go. Dismissing it will lead to only one thing. I need not tell you what that is. If your "getting with the times" is just development, then why do you fear the west's inroads ? You should actively bring them in so that India can become as developed as the west. Development is not what differentiates india from the west.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Feb 2014 02:58

Is this Italian process around kickbacks in Augusta-Westland helicopter deal, a way by which Italy is offering their most illustrious daughter - Antonia Maino, a way to escape NaMo?

E.g. Sonia Gandhi and Ahmed Patel can be convicted in Italy, and go to prison. Most Indians jump up in jubilation and see it as justice done. Quietly then they can continue their lives in a bella villa somewhere in Italy. Should one find out, Italians can always say they did so considering the health of Sonia Gandhi in question.

In order to be close to their imprisoned Mom, Rahul Gandhi and the Vadras too move to Italy.

The Dynasty escapes. Indians can rejoice a bit. But the Dynasty does not answer for any of the crimes committed by it against India or Indians.

Even Ahmed Patel seems to have negotiated an escape. Clever!

Considering the level of joy on twitter at the news clip from Italy, I think even hard-line Hindus who hate the guts of Sonia Gandhi can be easily taken for a ride.

With Devyani Khobragade's case was the same thing.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 03 Feb 2014 03:45

A few decades ago congis were more of a centrist party carrying with it all sections of the country. Howver with time, it lost out some sections of Hindu communities with increasing education and prosperity. they found out that congis were not the their true representative.
Some sections of Hindu community got hopelessly divided into casteist parties helped majorly by VP Singh and his mandalisation.

congi leaders from the beginning know that if Hindu community come together it is curtains for them. hence divided the Hindu community.
it also raised the bogey of Hindu communialism for many years when BJP was still in its infancy.
Muslims got the message which was hammered into their minds thru congis brand of politics.
when congis were more of centrist party they could afford to play both partisan to Hindus and muslims and christains etc.
However when it started to lose out votes of different Hindu communities, only muslims sc/sts and some obcs remained steadfast-- hence the demonistaion of rest of hindus helped by others in this goal.

with diminishing returns from Hindu communities at large, congis turned more and more muslim centric leading onto current situation.

Same is the case with some casteist parties like SP and others.

BJP is trying to occupy the centrist party now which was the congis in the past.
Now BJP is going from a marginal Hindu party to a full mainstream national party touching all communities with its developmental agenda with "India first" feature.
The biggest gainer is Hindu community itself as it is the one with the largest population base. With "India first" attitude and Indian constitution guiding it all communituies will benefit.

IOW BJP is doing a reverse congis but no demonisation of other commmunities like congis did.

At present time , muslims and chritians will never support BJP. It will take a couple of election cycles and growth of India before they see the light. This is similar to Gujarat over NaMO CMship period.
Minorities(not jihaadi/EVJ types) do not mind some Hindu tilt as long there is no demonisation of their communities. Guajarat is overtly Hindu but no discrimination against minorities. Lot of minorities in Guajarat knows this.Hence NaMo got over 25-30% minority support which is a big voting base by itself.
To replicate on all India level, will take at least 2-3 election cycle with NaMo at the helm.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Feb 2014 03:52

A 3-day old article that probably is relevant even today (in the fast paced election cycle):

In UP, Modi talks development while RSS talks Hindutva

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/in-up ... 66461.html

KJoishy wrote:When will we have a Hindutva version of America's FoxNews?

Saar, please to not news Hindutva and FoxNews on the same line

FoxNews and its like (Drudge Report, FreeRepublic...ityadi) are jokes on humanity, and panders to a section of society. They play on human fears while creating more mistrust and panic.

While Hindutva needs a positive paint, not paint from nut cases.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Feb 2014 04:44

nageshks wrote:Let me make a prediction here about NaMo's Guwahati rally (on February 8 ). NaMo will not even mention the illegal immigrants making the lives of the Hindus miserable. He will not speak a word about the dead Bodos in the recent riots, or offer them a word of sympathy. He will just speak about his governance, jobs and employment.

+1.
Ducking burning issues isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do. Take it head on but with dispassion, logic and empathy. Without demonizing any group but offer sympathy for the Indics who suffered losses due to the psec govts' collaborations....

It seems Modi's emphasis on governance is becoming monotonous and people now want to hear something different.

+1 only. Or maybe its just in us hardcore campees... but then he needs the hardcore set (the volunteers, the activists, the organizers, the fundraisers..) as much as anybody else, doesn't he?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 03 Feb 2014 06:14

President of National Council of Churches in India praises Modi

KOLKATA: President of the National Council of Churches in India (NBishop Taranath S Sagar praised BJP's PM candidate Narendra Modi for pursuing developmental issues.

The head of the umbrella organization of around 30 churches in India said this while addressing a press conference to start the final stage of centenary celebration of the NCCI.

"When Narendra Modi became the chief minister of Gujarat, he changed the chord of development," Sagar said.

"We represent a lot of churches and I cannot say anything particular. But my feeling is that if he is elected as PM, Modi will put aside strong Hindutva agenda. He should not succumb to lower cadres," he said.
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VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 03 Feb 2014 06:16

Put Narendra Modi’s role in 2002 riots to rest, Sharad Pawar says

KOLHAPUR: Union agriculture minister and Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) chief Sharad Pawar on Sunday said there should not be any discussion on Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's role in the 2002 riots since he has been given a "clean chit" by the courts.

"Since Modi has got a clean chit following a judicial probe, the matter should be put to rest. It's a simple logic. We live in a country where we abide by court's decisions. Once a court has pronounced its verdict on the Gujarat riots, it is not advisable to discuss the judgment," Pawar told newspersons here barely days after similar remarks were made by party colleague and Union minister Praful Patel.

Pawar, however, ruled out any pro-BJP sentiment in the country following the recent elections in Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Delhi and Chhattisgarh. "The BJP has won where it has been in the government for the past one or two decades. These states have favourable views on the BJP, but the party is limited to some specific regions only. Winning the state elections does not mean that the party has the capacity to achieve the number required to form the Union government," he added.
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muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 03 Feb 2014 06:26

Hari Seldon wrote:
nageshks wrote:Let me make a prediction here about NaMo's Guwahati rally (on February 8 ). NaMo will not even mention the illegal immigrants making the lives of the Hindus miserable. He will not speak a word about the dead Bodos in the recent riots, or offer them a word of sympathy. He will just speak about his governance, jobs and employment.
+1.
Ducking burning issues isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do. Take it head on but with dispassion, logic and empathy. Without demonizing any group but offer sympathy for the Indics who suffered losses due to the psec govts' collaborations....

Maybe he should just give that awesome statement he made in Mumbai 7 yrs ago, Assam and Gujarat are very similar, Aapke pados mein B'Desh hai aur hamre pados mein Pak hai. Farak sirf itna hai ki, aap unke karan pareshan hai and aur woh hamare karan pareshan hai.

With that he just needs to say, hum satte mein aate hi, fencing 2 yrs ke andar katam hoga aur deportation bhi promptly karenge.

If he just says this and speaks the rest of his speech all abt development, that will be fine and great.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 03 Feb 2014 07:12

panduranghari wrote:The more we are seeing the progress of the anarchy in Kiev, the more it seems the AAP high camman was taking direct orders from Unkil. ....

I am no CT theorist.perhaps you should also give this a bit of break.

panduranghari,

Waah !! So if I say that "AAP-apex is managed by MNC-owners", then it is CT. And if you say "AAP-apex is managed by USG" it is not a CT !!! Well, any word CT has no definition. But anytime a foreign hand is cited without court quality evidence, it is CT. And CTs may be right. But they are CT. And I am NOT against your making CT or even against your CTs. Its just that I need to know what bribes do you give to BRFites

that they support your CT while jump on my exact same CT.

===

panduranghari wrote: Mehta Saheb,

You say NaMo is good all others are compromised. So be it. Lesser of the 2 evils if you prefer me stating it so. Going openly after MNCs and missionaries without having the power to teach them a lesson is liked 'harakiri' at this last minute. NaMo has already given a mantra for this election- congress mukt Bharat. Next elections after he has consolidated and made a few systems the way he wants them, he will go after missionaries and MNC. Then why takleef?

Though in essence I agree than MNC is actually GOTUS which John Perkins stated so in confessions of economic hitman. Here the MNC who want the quarterly reports to reflect profits are courting NaMo because they have seen the congress has not repaid on their investments well. I am no CT theorist.perhaps you should also give this a bit of break.

I have already ordered by MP via SMS to make NaMo PM of India right away in feb-2012, and I may do same in may-2014. In fact, on 3-oct-2013, I gave newspaper-advt in IE asking all voters of India to order their MPs via SMS on who they want to be PM. (see https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 2173661922 ) . And NaMo can be the highest rank PM. So I never had any takleef in NaMo becoming PM of India.

The takleef I have is that nationalists are not realizing the extent to which BJP is now infiltrated by MNC-agents and Missionaries-agents. And given this level of infiltration, NaMo will NOT have power to crush MNC-owners and Missionaries even if he become PM. NaMo's image can be destroyed by MNC-paid-media any day in many ways. It can be showing his personal life as flawed, projecting AK-420 as better, more intelligent, more learned etc leader and digging files of 10s of major decisions he took to favor businesses in Gujarat. So MNC-owners will use this plant more of their agents in BJP-loksabha team. So when you see the list of tickets BJP gives, you will see that BJP-apex will be forced to kick out most of Hinduvadies, nationalists, swadeshi from winnable seats. And BJP-apex will be forced to give tickets to Meera Sanyal type MNC-agents. So even after NaMo becomes PM, NaMo will be under Lokpals and Supreme judges, and he will be above fragile NDA\BJP MPs, most of whom are now MNC-agents.

So what is the way out? The ONLY way nationalists can now beat MNC-owners and Missionaries is to start mass-movement for legislative reforms that improve efficiency of Indian employers and workers. NaMo surely should be made PM. But nationalists are wasting time by not looking beyond NaMo

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 03 Feb 2014 07:53

from what I could gatehr from teetar-
mixed reactions from the same jat folks themselves- some say NaMo should have been explicit whereas others say it was a good speech- where he pitched for peace and all round develpment.

Both groups wanted development. period. But one group wanted some talk on riots- fire and brimstone etc.

overall both nevertheless support NaMo strongest compared to the other known parties.

Believe NaMo has done his homework- he is being scrutinised minutely by all and sundry to trip him wherever possible.

All the carefully calibrated attacks on congis and its supporters can be felled in one big swoop by the foolishness of NaMo supporters.

NaMo has to be careful.

Anyway- if he does bring all round development to every part of India- that itself will take care of many pressing problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Riots have affected peaceful minorities more than jats as per reports- also more peaceful folks have died in samaj virodhi camps-- hence why should NaMo highlight only jats and not peaceful folks. he has been even handed which I thinks is the right decision.

There has been desperate course correction measures by maulna yadav, his puttar, and bhains ka boss azambhai. many muslims are angry with them at ground level. some may go bsp way.

why turn the spotlight from this to NaMo himself.
sometimes silence is golden, speech is silver. hope folks dont forget this.

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 03 Feb 2014 08:00

KJoishy wrote:MMS will not run, Rahul Gandhi cannot run for PM.
Who else is there from Congress?
Chidu?

AK Anthony

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 03 Feb 2014 08:04

Nandan is the 1st choice as per deep money bags in Mumbai

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 03 Feb 2014 08:07

nageshks wrote:
Dr. Praveen Patil @albatrossinfo : A BKU leader from Kithore (dominated by minorities); "If Modi's idea of reaching out to Jats is by invoking Chaudhry ji, then God help BJP!"

Just got this input from Meerut: "Jats were overwhelmingly in favor of BJP...are now cautiously optimistic"; #GenuineFeedback @narendramodi

This whole theory that even mentioning riots (read Muzaffarnagar) would make someone communal is self-defeating. End (no more tweets on this/
I expected this, and this is precisely what a hyper cautious BJP (if that is what NaMo is being) will get. If you don't even have the courge to talk of genuine problems to people, what can you expect from them? I don't buy the theory that being called communal will damage NaMo any. If anything, it will strengthen his credentials. If 10 years of relentless mainstream media propaganda could not damage NaMo, does anyone honestly believe that empathising with the Muzaffarnagar riot victims will do so? NaMo got where he is by being honest. He will get nowhere by being dishonest, or scared to talk to people of genuine issues.

The makeover of NaMo into a super-Vajpayee began a long time back - in October, IIRC, with the `toilets before temples' remark. Then came his forgetting the Pandits in Jammu. Now he forgets the agonies of the Jats in Meerut. I have observed this phenomenon in all BJP leaders. It seems to be a very generic Delhi disease.

Dear All,

I have NOT hijacked nageshks's account

. My posts on NaMo's dumping Hinduvaadi agenda may have hijacked nageshks's brain, mind and soul. But I have NOT hijacked his BRF-account.

muraliravi wrote:
nageshks wrote: Just one flaw in that diamond. The percentage of people who are volunteering for governance only constitute only about 20% of the volunteers. This is precisely what happened to Vajpayee. The people were still positive about Vajpayee, but not the volunteers. ...
well said, he is treading down the same path. UP BJP karyakartas will be and should be might disappointed with this stale speech.

devesh wrote:If Namo goes secular, BJP will die out in a few years. The Sangh will distance itself and once that umbilical cord is cut, BJP will whither away.

kittoo wrote: I agree. I have been ever cautious since that remark. Not that I wont vote for him or not offer my best to BJP, but I have serious fears about Modi becoming another Vajpayee.

I have NOT hijacked any of the above accounts !!

And I have NOT hijacked ANY account.

===

nageshks wrote: The percentage of people who are volunteering for governance only constitute only about 20% of the volunteers. This is precisely what happened to Vajpayee. The people were still positive about Vajpayee, but not the volunteers. 2004 disaster in UP was precisely due to large scale sabotage from the volunteers, who were furious with ABV for abandoning every pretence of Hindutva. Today, NaMo is treading the same path. And he will end in exactly the same place.

Over 98 out of 100 leaders across India believe in using activists' emotion and their concern for the causes as a stepping stone. The way a leader sees an activists is no different from the way a star sees his groupies. Now, I am NOT a leader. I am ONLY a senior activist at best. And even 98 out of 100 senior activists are also like leaders. The activists also know that over 98 out of 100 leaders and seniors are like that. But sadly, the activist doesnt know which one is The One. Solution I propose to activists is to read the law-drafts that his leader or senior activist proposes. That way, the activists will atleast learn about solutions.

===

OK folks, time to say AWMTA

and also time to say that "sooner or later, you have to agree with RM the common". I was the FIRST one to raise concern that NaMo is getting cornered and hijacked by MNC-owners and Missionaries. And I was the first one to raise alarm bell as loud as thunder when he said Sb4D. You guys laughed at me. No problem with that. I am used to all that and much more. But now pls dont waste time in crying and pls start working on SOLUTION.

vic · Post by **vic** » 03 Feb 2014 08:35

What people don't realize is that Vajpayee was taken on secular line by Advani who was creating a place for himself. So, apart from words, what matters is action! We need to see what Modi does! Modi has to be careful what he says personally, it is job of Kalyan Singh, Uma Bharathi, Govindacharya, Rithambara etc to Galvanise the Hindutava vote. Arun Jaitely dug up the gobhi of NDA Govt with his secular India Shinning, hope Modi keeps his Gobi away from him.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 03 Feb 2014 09:03

Retweeted by Rama: Nov29,12240BCE
India Policy ‏@India_Policy 14h

OK, now getting confirm ground reports of Jats getting disappointed with Modi's rally.
Expand

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 03 Feb 2014 09:07

Narayana Rao wrote:Nandan is the 1st choice as per deep money bags in Mumbai

This will not go down well with people like Digvijay Singh, Chidambaram and others from the Cong Old Guard who have been dreaming of the job since ages.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 03 Feb 2014 09:10

krishnan wrote:
Retweeted by Rama: Nov29,12240BCE
India Policy ‏@India_Policy 14h

OK, now getting confirm ground reports of Jats getting disappointed with Modi's rally.
Expand

Why don't Jats go to Cong for succor, the party they have been fanatically voting for all these years? When they suffered the consequences of their choices, they have swiftly put the full burden on BJP to pull their chestnuts out of fire. How come? You can't back a wrong horse for years and then run to the right horse crying for help once your testicles get squeezed. Why don't they go to Ajit Singh and UP Cong leadership? Mental blindness and lack of foresight has its consequences. (I am a Jat myself, BTW.) Jats of UP are bad weather friends -- they remember BJP only when in trouble. In good times, it's only Cong and Ajit Singh for them.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 03 Feb 2014 09:10

johneeG wrote: And revenge is best served cold. Modi is no where the same as Bajpayee. Bajpayee was a Nahru guy. Modi is being opposed precisely because he is not like any of his predecessors.

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/capital ... as-to-say/

Madhok is very critical even today of Vajpayee and Advani and has not even a single good word for either of them. “When I criticized Nehru in Parliament in the wake of the Chinese aggression, Vajpayee came up to me and told me that I will never be elected to Lok Sabha again. Acharya Kriplani who was sitting nearby told me that do not take him( Vajpayee) seriously since he is Nehru’s planted man in the opposition”.

Madhok also said that attempts were made to subvert the party’s basic ideology by Vajpayee and some others. They talked about Deen Dayal Upadhyaya’s humanism, which was nothing original but borrowed from the thesis of MN Roy and applied to Sangh politics.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Feb 2014 09:27

And I was the first person to say, when people see a charismatic person then many will thrown in their hat into the ring, alongside him. I warned Modi to be wary of his supporters, probably was the first to do so. Intellectuals, elites, aam admi and no-so aam admi and sundry will come with their ideas when they sight a horse that can win the race. Everybody will hang their expectations on to Modi. Modi will be forced to carry the burden of many. He will be pulled in all directions. So is the nature of leadership and followers. Will the leader or followers win? Only time will tell.

Should Modi play his progressive/development agenda or his Hindutva card? Nobody, here in BRF, or in Modi's camp can know for sure. If they knew that then winning elections would be an easy thing. And if you seriously know what Modi should do, then please go meet him and give him the winning magic wand. The nation, Modi supporters and BRF will hold you in deep reverence.

Sure there is always room for a leader to step up and announce "Make me the PM. I will build the Ram temple, I will restore Kashi Viswanath temple in 10 years" ityadi. Will that leader win enough seats for his party and alliances that will cross 272? I do not know, honest to god. If you know then tusi great ho!!! Jai ho onlee.

And for the record, I prefer a government that focuses its energies on building Sauchalaya and leave Devalaya to its followers; treat people, communities, institutions and corporations as they deserve to be treated, provide a level playing field for competing institutions and people, provide opportunities for progress - but no guarantee. All this by preserving the traditions, culture, values, territorial integrity, internal security, defense against external threat and build the infrastructure.

We need to realize, we are just pouring our ideas in this dhaaga, be it emotional. People who truly are making a mark and involved in the electoral affairs, are not writing in this dhaaga.

India is a large country with vast section of people. It is impossible to please large sections of society, let alone all people. For 10 Hindutvaadis, one might find 10 anti-Hindutvaadis. Simmer down guys, stock on antacids and keep a few handy as there are couple of more speeches coming shortly - Kolakatta and Chennai?

vic · Post by **vic** » 03 Feb 2014 10:00

RoyG wrote:Pawar is now backing Modi according to timesnow.

I idea to get in Modi good books so that he and his family's business empire is not raped after Modi comes to power.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Feb 2014 10:48

As per Dainik Jagran:
1. The Modi rally broke the previous record - for the largest rally - that had assembled in Merut in 1977 to oust Congress.
2. Pawar's intention to "back" Modi is to drive hard negotiation with Congress. Just haggling so to say. {my comment: Every tom, dick and harry use Modi for their own benefit}
3. Modi's rally seems to have caused takleef to BSP and SP.
4. 10 Lakh viewed on the internet. 150 laptops and 500 mobiles were used by BJP IT Cell to keep the rally connected to the cyberworld.
5. Nritya Gopal Das has said the country needs a nationalistic leader.

रैली स्थल के पास चाट, मूंगफली, जूस आदि के ठेले और अस्थायी दुकानें बनी थीं। कहीं भी छीनाझपटी या मुफ्तखोरी की घटना प्रकाश में नहीं आई।
What do the underlined words exactly mean? I get the gist

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Feb 2014 10:50

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 03 Feb 2014 10:52

Wow! I see some people here discarding the Saffron crowd as of no use. People using words like 'they are only 5%', 'they can vote for someone else if they want' and more. Really? This is the crowd that made BJP, got it into power. This is the crowd still on streets for BJP, this is the crowd giving their resources to BJP. This is the crowd that actually fights on the streets, when push comes to shove. People are acting as if just acknowledging the riots and dead would have been a blunder. How so? If we cant even do that, forget about other Hindu causes. Forget about fighting Jihad. Yeah the Jats voted for Congress for all these years, but they are now willing to do their bit for Hindutva so I am not going to indulge in schadenfreude when Modi doesnt mention the riots and they feel slighted. This is the same thinking that has lead to defeat of Hindus again and again. I never thought I would see a day on BRF when the core saffron crowd would be made fun of.
Nobody is denying development is important. Hell, nobody is saying that Modi should've become Rambo about Hinduism. All people here are saying is that he could've mentioned it (even the last time, during Shauchalaya vs Devalaya debate, people werent saying that he shouldnt develop Shauchalayas. People were saying that he could've avoided the comparison.). How hard is it to understand?
Also, just by criticizing Modi on something, we arent going to not vote for him or do our bit to make him PM. I will do everything in my power to make him PM. I will be on cloud 9 when and if he becomes PM. But that doesnt mean I have no right to criticize him over my core issues. That doesnt mean I suddenly become worse than enemies for him.
Have all the development and no cultural solidarity, and it will be of no use. Same the other way around. Come on, guys!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Feb 2014 11:06

I am one of those folks, who do not know what is the best thing to do - play the Hindutva card or not. I think there is a place for both, but I am not a politician or campaign manager. So I defer to the gurus here.

A serious question though. What is the source of "Jats feeling slighted" ityadi? A few twitter from Dr. Patil? Dr. Patil has made a good name for himself via his 5forty3 blog and hopefully his sources are true and are without any agenda. Are there other sources and credible organizations that convey the same picture that the Jats are disappointed. It is said that one need multiple sources to confirm an event, so probably all these sadness is among a few Jat leaders and not among the people. Or maybe these are some emotions of some Hindutva/Jat folks.

Granted one cannot wait till the elections to find the reality. I read Dainik Jagran, and it did not carry any such news item. Did any other Hindi newspaper or magazine carry negative stories?

And here is Jaggi's analysis of what Modi is in 2014. Modi not playing the Hindutva card has one advantage - it can splinter the minority votes: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/the-u ... 70787.html

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 03 Feb 2014 11:12

SwamyG wrote:As per Dainik Jagran:
1. The Modi rally broke the previous record - for the largest rally - that had assembled in Merut in 1977 to oust Congress.
2. Pawar's intention to "back" Modi is to drive hard negotiation with Congress. Just haggling so to say. {my comment: Every tom, dick and harry use Modi for their own benefit}
3. Modi's rally seems to have caused takleef to BSP and SP.
4. 10 Lakh viewed on the internet. 150 laptops and 500 mobiles were used by BJP IT Cell to keep the rally connected to the cyberworld.
5. Nritya Gopal Das has said the country needs a nationalistic leader.

रैली स्थल के पास चाट, मूंगफली, जूस आदि के ठेले और अस्थायी दुकानें बनी थीं। कहीं भी छीनाझपटी या मुफ्तखोरी की घटना प्रकाश में नहीं आई।
What do the underlined words exactly mean? I get the gist

छीनाझपटी -- to grab something forcefully from the rightful owner
मुफ्तखोरी -- to consume stuff and not pay (freeloading)

In crowded, chaotic situations like a rally, it is common for people not to pay a hawker for stuff bought, or grab stuff from hawkers and walk away

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Feb 2014 11:19

Thanks. That is what I thought, however I did not understand the second parts japati" and "khori" - but the words and context made me conclude that people were disciplined. Is it Ram Rajaya already?

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Feb 2014 11:40

SwamyG wrote: रैली स्थल के पास चाट, मूंगफली, जूस आदि के ठेले और अस्थायी दुकानें बनी थीं। कहीं भी छीनाझपटी या मुफ्तखोरी की घटना प्रकाश में नहीं आई।
What do the underlined words exactly mean? I get the gist

Translation:

Near the rally., temporary shops of chaat, peanuts, juice etc and other temporary shops were "built" (available). Nowhere any untoward incidents like free-loading and grab-and-run were reported.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 03 Feb 2014 11:40

Have folks in Meerut & Muzaffarnagar. For whatever its worth, getting news that the locals are disappointed with Modi not talking about the riots & he should have been much more powerful in his speech. I hope Modi's advisers pick this up & make amends. Also, he needs to cut down on his mentions of Sadbhavana & unity and brotherhood. Not saying that he talk Hindutva but why talk about universal brotherhood and all?

Also, this 'vote for India' and all is good for urban voters but I personally found it useless in a semi-urban/rural setting. He should stick to Vande Mataram & Bharat Mata ki Jai, they evoke more emotions than angrezi 'vote for india'.

All in all, I would say it is a missed opportunity. Jats were so in the bag, now they are not.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Feb 2014 11:44

kittoo wrote:Wow! I see some people here discarding the Saffron crowd as of no use. People using words like 'they are only 5%', 'they can vote for someone else if they want' and more. Really? This is the crowd that made BJP, got it into power. This is the crowd still on streets for BJP, this is the crowd giving their resources to BJP. This is the crowd that actually fights on the streets, when push comes to shove. People are acting as if just acknowledging the riots and dead would have been a blunder. How so? If we cant even do that, forget about other Hindu causes. Forget about fighting Jihad.

The Hindhuthva crowd on the street maybe 5%, saar. But the passive Hindhuthva crowd would be easily more than 10%. Add the two, and you have about 15% core Hindhuthva voters. Then, there would be about 20% people who are culturally not averse to Hindhuthva, but have other priorities. They welcome Hindhuthva, but thats not there core issue. That makes a total Hindhuthva of about 35%. Generally, these are the people who vote for lotus.

Then, you have about 30% who have a caste affiliation or community based voting. There is some overlap between the caste affiliated ones and the Hindhuthva crowd. Generally, there can be a 10%-20% overlap. So, when there is Hindhuthva wave, the caste parties lose. When there is caste wave, Hindhuthva parties lose. The caste affiliation group can be divided into two groups(inclined for and against Hndhuthva). 10% are inclined against, 20% in favor.

Then, you have the 'liberal', 'yuppie', 'urbane' and 'modern' voter who actually votes. This can be around 10%. These people may or may not vote. These people dislike Hindhuthva and like 'secularism' even though they are not very aware of the kind of secularism that is followed on ground. The opinions of these people are formed by the media.

Then, there is a 25% who don't vote because they are not interested. These people are also taken in by the media projections. So, they also dislike Hindhuthva.

Thats my assessment.

So, there is a 45% population of people who say chi chi to Hindhuthva. There is a 30% population of people who are affiliated to caste politics or community politics. And there are 35% who are inclined towards Hindhuthva. There is some overlap in these groups.

Majority of the people in 45% are fickle voters and don't necessarily vote. And these people are quite naive when it comes to politics and their social views are based on popular media.

When, people try to garner these fickle voters and in the process give up the hardcore voters, they end up shooting themselves in the foot.

This time, there is a major anti-kongi wave, pro-Modi wave and Hindhuthva wave. There are many who hate kongis and don't want them to come to power. Then, there are people who want Modi to come to power. Anti-kongi wave and pro-Modi wave has development crowd. And then there are people who want a pro-Hindhuthva Govt. These 3 groups converge on Modi.

kittoo wrote: Yeah the Jats voted for Congress for all these years, but they are now willing to do their bit for Hindutva so I am not going to indulge in schadenfreude when Modi doesnt mention the riots and they feel slighted. This is the same thinking that has lead to defeat of Hindus again and again. I never thought I would see a day on BRF when the core saffron crowd would be made fun of.

Saar,
I think NaMo did send the signals. He was not explicit. I think that job has been left to the cadre, for now. NaMo supported those MLAs who are accused by the 'seculars'. NaMo raised the issue of safety of daughters and daughter-in-laws. And blamed SaPa for it. This is a straight-forward connection to riots and rapes. In the same breath, he also talked about the zahar ki kheti and accused that it was kongis who are responsible for creating the divisions. He gave the example of T. But it also applies to riots. He is blaming the SaPa and kongis. Yep, it was not direct mention of riots. Eventually, I think, he will raise the issue much more forcefully after the situation stabilizes a bit.

I don't mind the omissions as long as there are no adverse comments. Comments like Sb4D are not omissions, they are blunders.

But, NageshKS saar's idea of 2min silence for the riot victims is quite good. Maybe somebody should convey it to the NaMo through some means.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Feb 2014 11:51

I'm happy to see diverse opinions and voices coming out on the rally. Its good perspective and good feedback for the campaign managers to act on.

I recall his explicit message to yadav voters in his patna rally. He said verbatim that should they move towards the BJP, the BJP would not overlook their interests. Was it so hard to give a similar message to the jats, I ask?

Modi should have (like nageshks suggested) held at least a 2 minute silence to honor the dead in the riots. And said that an impartial investigation would catch and punish the culprits - something the UP and UPA govts are incapable of doing.

Its good to see that not everybody (and that includes NM hardcore fans like me) is so enamoured of NM as to become blind followers of NM but are independent and free-willed enough to scrutinize and criticize. That bodes well for the future.

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Feb 2014 11:51

Chandragupta wrote:...
All in all, I would say it is a missed opportunity. Jats were so in the bag, now they are not.

Yeah. From your statement, it appears that Jats are a nation unto themselves! Are Jats the keralites of the naaarth? Or the bakis across the radcliffe line - tactically superior but strategically insane?

Here is a real incident:

My local HOA has a Jat resident who is upset with the HOA policies and is railing against the HOA and the HOA president is italian!! The Italian is running rings around the Jat resident. That Jat is totally disappointed and coming for my help (I am no longer in that HOA!!) and was angry with me when I said that I have no legal right to come to your HOA to lend "outside support".

Now I can see the reasons of "Jat disappointment" - the Jats are threatening go and vote for CongIs/Sapa/Baspa just because Modi did not state the way they wanted to hear in speech? And then people draw conclusions from there! How bull-headed one can get?

Point is., one can be tactically brilliant but strategically stupid. If they are going to use a speech as a "pet peeve" and cry hoarse about it and not vote for NaMo - then the cry-babies do deserve what they get. Rest of India was getting the Jihad and slowly turned around how to beat Jihad back democratically and the first taste of Jihad by Jats and they go a.la. Denothor, steward of Gondor stating the Rohans have failed me!

And lot of posters are giving into the FUD of "Jat Disappointment" - what do jats want? A licence to go and do "katle-aam"? Is that it?

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Feb 2014 11:55

Hari Seldon wrote:I'm happy to see diverse opinions and voices coming out on the rally. Its good perspective and good feedback for the campaign managers to act on.

I recall his explicit message to yadav voters in his patna rally. He said verbatim that should they move towards the BJP, the BJP would not overlook their interests. Was it so hard to give a similar message to the jats, I ask?

Yes! The elections are not yet announced. Some subtlety is required now and ground reports to be understood before any further moves are made. After the parliament is suspended, one can go and make some different statements.

Modi should have (like nageshks suggested) held at least a 2 minute silence to honor the dead in the riots. And said that an impartial investigation would catch and punish the culprits - something the UP and UPA govts are incapable of doing.

Its good to see that not everybody (and that includes NM hardcore fans like me) is so enamoured of NM as to become blind followers of NM but are independent and free-willed enough to scrutinize and criticize. That bodes well for the future.

To reiterate, why I want NaMo at helm

1. State department will get boned and Ombaba gets an ungli
2. CongIs get a small ungli from Indians
3. MediaPimps will get a big ungli from Indians.

All *else* is gravy., like improving economy, start removing the C-System, remove CongIs once and for all etc.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Feb 2014 11:56

disha wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:...
All in all, I would say it is a missed opportunity. Jats were so in the bag, now they are not.
Yeah. From your statement, it appears that Jats are a nation unto themselves! Are Jats the keralites of the naaarth? Or the bakis across the radcliffe line - tactically superior but strategically insane?

Here is a real incident:

My local HOA has a Jat resident who is upset with the HOA policies and is railing against the HOA and the HOA president is italian!! The Italian is running rings around the Jat resident. That Jat is totally disappointed and coming for my help (I am no longer in that HOA!!) and was angry with me when I said that I have no legal right to come to your HOA to lend "outside support".

Now I can see the reasons of "Jat disappointment" - the Jats are threatening go and vote for CongIs/Sapa/Baspa just because Modi did not state the way they wanted to hear in speech? And then people draw conclusions from there! How bull-headed one can get?

Point is., one can be tactically brilliant but strategically stupid. If they are going to use a speech as a "pet peeve" and cry hoarse about it and not vote for NaMo - then the cry-babies do deserve what they get. Rest of India was getting the Jihad and slowly turned around how to beat Jihad back democratically and the first taste of Jihad by Jats and they go a.la. Denothor, steward of Gondor stating the Rohans have failed me!

And lot of posters are giving into the FUD of "Jat Disappointment" - what do jats want? A licence to go and do "katle-aam"? Is that it?

Take on this fella https://twitter.com/WorldJat . He needs some dose of sanity.