Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 10:20

Mean while BJP is getting thrashing of its life in Karnatka local body polls. It has been wiped out in its traditional strong holds of coastal and north K. Yeddi hurting BJP badly.
It's trailing behind JDS.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Mar 2013 10:21

Hari Seldon wrote:Whilst I agree on the big tentedness and all, one should not take it to any extreme.

No point compromising with the our indian/bharatiya identity to accomodate psec interests, for instance. NM again is a great example inthis regard.

Well you say what you stand for, but if somebody half agrees with you, but is not with you on other things, and maybe does not agree on the 'how its to be done' but agrees on 'what's to be done'...you don't push him out.

One vote minus and one vote plus to other side, totaling deficit of two. To compensate for your stupidity, now you have to chase three votes to overcome that. And good luck with that given that you are not able to attract even somebody who half agrees with you.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Mar 2013 10:28

Gus wrote:Well you say what you stand for, but if somebody half agrees with you, but is not with you on other things, and maybe does not agree on the 'how its to be done' but agrees on 'what's to be done'...you don't push him out.

And I wouldn't. But if you want NM to become another kangressi clone in order for him to be acceptable to clever you as opposed to stoopid me, I'll call BS on you. Only. Anyway, doesn't matter either way, what'll happen will happen.

One vote minus and one vote plus to other side, totaling deficit of two. To compensate for your stupidity, now you have to chase three votes to overcome that. And good luck with that given that you are not able to attract even somebody who half agrees with you.

Yeah right. So you deign to half-agree with me by calling me stoopid. And then accuse me of driving agreeable people away. Thereby showcasing your smarts, I'm sure. Thanks for showing where you're coming from. My last on this, G'bye.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 11 Mar 2013 10:34

Sanku wrote: This base is in because of RSS, and Modi is not sarsanghchalak, Advani with all his base could be made a cipher overnight by RSS.

RSS leadership may not be with Modi, but the foot-soldiers are.

BJP cannot risk projecting one individual as 'PM' candidate: Sheshadri Chari - http://ibnlive.in.com/news/modi-is-a-go ... 32-37.html

If Modi forms his own party, within a week he will have 75% of all RSS volunteers with him, imho.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 10:38

K poll results

http://web7.kar.nic.in/ulbtrends/StateSummary.aspx

Even if Shivaji and Rana Pratap campaign for BJP, I doubt they can prevent Congress Victory in upcoming polls.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Mar 2013 10:41

Sanku wrote:
RoyG wrote: Hiccups will happen. It's a little too late for party break up because there isn't much of the party outside of Modi.
This is a COMPLETELY wrong understanding of BJP and Sangh, their collectivism is fairly strong, the base consists of karykarta's and RSS volunteers.

This base is in because of RSS, and Modi is not sarsanghchalak, Advani with all his base could be made a cipher overnight by RSS.

BJP is NOT a person based party, no Khanduri, No Uma Bharati no Modi even are stronger than the collective.

--------------

It does sound story bookish, but BJP is completely the case of together 1 + 1 makes 11.

Yawn, all the RSS folks I've talked to could care less about the leaders of the organization. At this stage even if the RSS heads told everyone not to vote for him the majority wouldn't listen. All they do is talk about Modi. He delivers and he is on the offensive against the Gandhi's. Modi has re-energized the organization because they feel that through him they can transform their vision of India into reality. In that sense, Modi's politics encompasses much of the base. Whether you like it or not, the BJP is a person based party now. Who the hell else is there who can inspire? Nobody has stepped up to the plate.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 10:52

Sanku talks like a mother of girl, who keep on getting herself repeatdly knocked up, thinking her daughter would be fine if she keep saying nice thing.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 10:57

Sushupti wrote:Sanku talks like a mother of girl, who keep on getting herself repeatdly knocked up, thinking her daughter would be fine if she keep saying nice thing.

Dont flatter yourself by speaking on my behalf. Worry about getting your act together.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 10:58

RoyG wrote:\
Yawn, all the RSS folks I've talked to could care less about the leaders of the organization. At this stage even if the RSS heads told everyone not to vote for him the majority wouldn't listen. .

Yeah, just a while back people were also blaming RSS by working against Modi and reducing the victory margin in Guj.

People need to figure out one conspiracy theory to stick to at least.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 10:59

Pranav wrote:
If Modi forms his own party, within a week he will have 75% of all RSS volunteers with him, imho.

The khujli to see some sort of break up in Sangh at any cost is becoming very strong, isnt it.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Mar 2013 11:03

As expected, the media is running all over town painting a grim picture with LKA's "rebellion" in the lead.

Return of the patriarch: Old war horse Advani shows who's boss by underplaying PM of choice Modi and stalling Gadkari's rise

The war is yet to begin and already Cong sympathizers in the BJP are out to sabotage preparations from behind friendly lines. Jai ho indeed. The best we can hope for is that the INC not return to pwer - some third front tamasha in the interim will be much more preferable. Very unlikely NDA will go anywhere this way. Only.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 11:12

Sanku wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Sanku talks like a mother of girl, who keep on getting herself repeatdly knocked up, thinking her daughter would be fine if she keep saying nice thing.
Dont flatter yourself by speaking on my behalf. Worry about getting your act together.

What are your sensible comments about Yeddi's strong performance in latest results? Do u think Ananth Neera Radia Kumar will learn any lesson?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 11:19

Hari Seldon wrote:As expected, the media is running all over town painting a grim picture with LKA's "rebellion" in the lead.

The war is yet to begin and already Cong sympathizers in the BJP are out to sabotage preparations from behind friendly lines. .

Yes, there would be some cong sympathizers in BJP, but more than that, they are being assiduously created. The media has suddenly realized that LKA is anti Modi, also RSS is anti LKA.

A little while back RSS was anti Modi too. In fact we have wise men suggesting how NaMo should junk RSS to rise.

Even a little before that it seemed that Gadkari was against NaMo. Then they were together, then they were anti-LKA.

At this rate, if you believe media, everyone in BJP is against everyone else. Maybe that is true. But hey that should write BJP off totally shouldn't it?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 11:25

Sushupti wrote: What are your sensible comments about Yeddi's strong performance in latest results? Do u think Ananth Neera Radia Kumar will learn any lesson?

I think Yeddi is the one who should learn lessons, he should form his own party and tie up with Congress. That will serve both his, and the cause that both of you feel so strongly for.

BJP is all junk anyway, with rest of the Sangh, after all Sita Ram Goel said so.

Go Yeddi go. Go to Sonia amma whom you love so much.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 11:31

Edited. Don't repeat.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Mar 2013 11:34

BJP is a washed out version of Congress-the 'manuvaadi' B team.The real savarnas-brahmanas in TN,UP,forward castes-reddys,marathas,the mudaliars,chettiars,Hindu Khatris of Punjab,forward looking thakurs,Hindu forward jats,nationalist jutt sikhs, and other peasant OBCs-okkaliga/vellala gounder,'real' obc leaders-lalu ahir,mulayam ahir,sachin 'gujar',Veerapa Moily none of them have trust in BJP but in Congress.

Congress was the original pan-indian Hindu nationalist.For all their flaws in appeasing mleccha faiths like malsi and christism,they have maintained a dialogue with the bahujan shudra population and let us not forget that many of the christists are shudra converts who have got a 'better' deal under British preferentialism.Howmuch ever we may hate christism and preferential treatment,christism has delivered minimum to the converts.And that is something we Hindus believe is the minimum for all Indian citizens.

VP Singh once said."RSS talks of Akhanda Bharatha but will settle for Aryavartha" The truth is north indians(and others too) sometimes pour scorn on MH and KA(one finds that even in nukkad).Sometimes one wonders at this flaw in 'naarthie' character-to speak ill of those who are already aligned with Hindu nationalism.But thats a flaw of Aryavartha and the 'ram bhakths' of Kali Yuga as was seen in Yeddyurapa episode where Sushma/AJ types forsook Yeddyurappa and could broker a honest deal between the majority lingayat and the dominant telugu speaking reddys who consider Bellary as their home.So much for BJP vision.The BJP I am sure will fail in SL,reservation,TN-KA water dispute,Telengana-Andhra.I have never seen Sankuji or Bji or Jhujar comment on Andhra-Telengana imbroglio.One would think those who comment on everything under the sun would have a word on telengana grievances.

Narendrabhai is no Sri Rama.Nor is he srikrishna,who left Mathura for Dwaraka.For narendrabhai to have any choice,the Congress(Tarun Gogoi,KK Reddy,would have to support along with Naveen Patnaik and Mamata).It is the not Hindu ethos to p1ss on those who contributed to nation building.We believe in synthesis and conservatism is a virtue in an ancient society like ours when we seek to preserve the good of the past.

LKA,the sindhi refugee knows the reality and he is towing the congress line.

Pontification over.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 11:34

what's your view on Arun Shourie's comment about "4-5 individuals" running the party?. Don't tell me it was about PML(N).

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 11:35

Sushupti wrote:^^^ Ha ha ha !!!! you didn't answer my question. But for Yeddi to attach to the mammary of Sonia amma D4 has to vacate the space.

I answered the question more than that worthless piece of your foul mouth deserves.

"I love Sonia" Yeddi is completely already very much "A congress agent in Mufti" by now.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Mar 2013 11:35

so, Karnataka BJP base is successfully undone....wonderful.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 11:37

Sushupti wrote:what's your view on Arun Shourie's comment about "4-5 individuals" running the party?. Don't tell me it was about PML(N).

He also speaks very highly of ABV, has both critised and praised LKA on occasions and most recently said LKAs statement in Brahma vakya.

He supported LKA on Jinaah speech, has taken on BJP/RSS on Jaswant Singh and has be pro Sud. Kulkarni.

This is called a collectivist party -- but it would be too complicated for a "congress agent in Mufti" I guess.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 11:39

svenkat wrote:BJP is a washed out version of Congress-the 'manuvaadi' B team.T.

Thank you svenkat ji, better that people show their real perception of BJP and be done with it, rather than pretend to be one thing and actually be something else.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 11:39

svenkat wrote:BJP is a washed out version of Congress-the 'manuvaadi' B team.The real savarnas-brahmanas in TN,UP,forward castes-reddys,marathas,the mudaliars,chettiars,Hindu Khatris of Punjab,forward looking thakurs,Hindu forward jats,nationalist jutt sikhs, and other peasant OBCs-okkaliga/vellala gounder,'real' obc leaders-lalu ahir,mulayam ahir,sachin 'gujar',Veerapa Moily none of them have trust in BJP but in Congress.

Pontification over.

Are you serious?. Brahamins in TN are Savarnas?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 11:41

Sanku wrote:
Sushupti wrote:what's your view on Arun Shourie's comment about "4-5 individuals" running the party?. Don't tell me it was about PML(N).
He also speaks very highly of ABV, has both critised and praised LKA on occasions and most recently said LKAs statement in Brahma vakya.

He supported LKA on Jinaah speech, has taken on BJP/RSS on Jaswant Singh and has be pro Sud. Kulkarni.

This is called a collectivist party -- but it would be too complicated for a "congress agent in Mufti" I guess.

Mere liye itani kadwahat kyon?. So you agree with is D4 running BJP?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 11:44

Sushupti wrote: He also speaks very highly of ABV, has both critised and praised LKA on occasions and most recently said LKAs statement in Brahma vakya.

He supported LKA on Jinaah speech, has taken on BJP/RSS on Jaswant Singh and has be pro Sud. Kulkarni.

This is called a collectivist party -- but it would be too complicated for a "congress agent in Mufti" I guess.

Mere liye itani kadwahat kyon?. So you agree with is D4 running BJP?[/quote]

There is no D4 despite the best efforts of COngress agents in mufti

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Mar 2013 11:48

Hari Seldon wrote: you deign to half-agree with me by calling me stoopid.

it was a general you...not personally you Hari Seldon.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Mar 2013 11:50

Sushupti, enough already. A few posts is tolerable - but this running battle over several pages on D-4 and this and that is detracting from this thread. Please take all posts on this theme to the one that you have created for that specific purpose.

And Shanku - the focus of this thread continues to be on Modi and not the BJP as a collectivist organization, at least until the time the two start to speak with one voice.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 11 Mar 2013 11:52

Sushupti ji,

The 'congress agent in mufti' is not you, that is Yeddi, per Sanku ji. What is unsaid is that Yeddi is only one haath, basically not enough for the Taali.

Karnataka should start a blame game within BJP. While it is destruction of the base, we need to see what remains of the base for Modi to run with. If Modi is willing then he can turn the tables at this point and for good. Ideally he should have been used to set the matters right in Karnataka. But with the egos being as big as they are all round, he is unlikely to be of much help without the party falling in line to support him in his endeavor should he be willing to take it. Quite unsurprisingly Modi has earlier been reported to have washed his hands off Karnataka scene. Probably he saw the writing on the wall much before other guys were willing to.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 12:03

Arjun wrote: And Shanku - the focus of this thread continues to be on Modi and not the BJP as a collectivist organization, at least until the time the two start to speak with one voice.

Arjun-ji, I will attempt to clear up your confusions, on this. They speak with one voice, as much as is possible in a truly democratic collectivist organization where multiple viewpoints finally resolve to one, even if you dont seem to get that yet. I fully aim to show the linkages between Modi and BJP and how its BJP system vs Cong system and not about a individual.

You are welcome to raise the issues with the mods.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 12:05

ravi_g wrote:What is unsaid is that Yeddi is only one haath, basically not enough for the Taali.

Quite unsurprisingly Modi has earlier been reported to have washed his hands off Karnataka scene. Probably he saw the writing on the wall much before other guys were willing to.

Thank you ravi_g, your insights bring much clarity and complete the picture which threatens to become a uni-dimensional simplistic framework.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Mar 2013 12:12

As far as I can see, Karnataka municipal poll results don't mean anything. The results so far are not very different from the results of the previous poll in 2007. And that was followed by a BJP win in the Assembly elections.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 12:18

Arjun wrote:As far as I can see, Karnataka municipal poll results don't mean anything. The results so far are not very different from the results of the previous poll in 2007. And that was followed by a BJP win in the Assembly elections.

I would agree with you so far. The polls especially as we go down to local levels have their own dynamics, it takes a long time to align those dynamics with bigger elections.

BJP has been sweeping the local elections in Delhi and losing the State vote.

Further, it is important to remember that BJP vote % in Kkta is low, lower than Congress, it won because of distribution of votes in seats. BJP in Kkta is by no means a well entreched party.

Despite everything, despite NaMo canvassing, despite no talk of internal fighting, BJP lost HP (could be poor candidate selection, but what is is) -- it would be premature to assume that just Modi's presence would change the vote % in Kkta or BJP's one victory would make Kkta a BJP bastion.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 12:26

Some examples were sought of fan-boi's of Modi doing more harm than good to him. This is one example (if true -- all standard disclaimers apply to news sourced from MSM)

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/modi- ... 130311.htm

The report says that Shukla was in Delhi [ Images ] to meet Opposition leader Sushma Swaraj. However, Swaraj was not present in her office when Shukla went to meet her. He decided to wait till she returned, but after a while started going through the files kept on Swaraj’s table.

As per an unnamed source in the report, the CCTV camera footage from Swaraj’s office shows Shukla going through a file related to Nitin Gadkari [ Images ] -- the former president of the Bharatiya Janta Party. Shukla allegedly took three pages from the file and left the room.

Balu Shukla, however, did not realise that the CCTV installed in the chamber of the Opposition leader was recording his mischief.

A livid Sushma Swaraj reportedly called up Balu Shukla when she got to know of the incident and reprimanded him. She even lodged a complaint with Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi.

The report also claims that Modi lambasted Shukla for his actions.

Modi has been toiling hard to maintain his dignity and decorum before the national media and establishment in New Delhi, but his colleague from Gujarat has created a huge embarrassment for him.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Mar 2013 12:32

Sanku wrote:
RoyG wrote:\
Yawn, all the RSS folks I've talked to could care less about the leaders of the organization. At this stage even if the RSS heads told everyone not to vote for him the majority wouldn't listen. .
Yeah, just a while back people were also blaming RSS by working against Modi and reducing the victory margin in Guj.

People need to figure out one conspiracy theory to stick to at least.

Didn't do much. At this point he's in the driver seat. Nobody cares about that old fart Advani or Sushma. They just deliver speeches in parliament.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 12:36

Sanku wrote:
Sushupti wrote:
Do you seriously believe that he gave up power because of grace and greater good of BJP in his mind?. Suppose if he hadn't stepped aside for ABV to take lead in 1995, in your opinion, how many of cow belt upper caste "LOTAs" would have deserted congress and voted for BJP?.
I dont even know why I bother to reply to your nonsense, you have at least twice called people of GV valleys names, first cow belters and now LOTA (I am sure you are aware that name for the caste grouping has a negative connotation)

You have as per need called LKA name, called ABV names called pretty much the entire sangh and entire BJP names, You have pretended to show some concern for BJP and Modi which is frankly a load of tosh.

So no it does not matter to you what I believe in, since you live in your world where night is day.

However to answer your question, people have accused LKA of hanging on to power at the cost of BJP, where as I have shown that LKA despite all the hard work stepped aside gracefully for the good of BJP (of course only to make sure those heinous upper castes could put their fav windbag in the seat so that their looting could continue)

My problems is that lies, nonsense and subfurtge irks me, esp on BRF, so I speak out.

1. If "Hindu rate of growth" is not considered calling names than how can "cow belt" be considered calling names?. Regarding LOTA, i meant anglicized part of upper caste of cow belt (e.g. Brajesh Mishra)not whole of upper caste. Even if it were so, i myself being an uppercaste and from cowbelt, i keep my right for self-contempt or self criticism. Just as a black fellow calling himself nigger is considered sign of self confidence filled with fun.

2. On an internet forum you should not expect the discipline that of an official BJP member.Here, some are sympathetic to BJP due to their nationalist bent, some may be BJP members, some may be RSS members and some may have been BJP/RSS members in past. Don't expect party discipline compliance here on this forum. When Rama and Krishna are analyzed and criticized and called with all sorts of names who the hell are Advani( for whom demolition of BM is saddest day of his life) and Vajpayee? And, i never called RSS/BJP any names to the best of my memory. If i have ever done so, my apologies in advance. I do have problem with dynasty slipper cells in BJP( it may look nonsense to you but i have my sources leading to such a perception). Leave Modi aside.

3. Here you want me to accept the official narrative of that period in the History of BJP. My contention is that even if a Donkey were to be made BJP president outcome would have been the same in terms of BJP going from 2-88. If Mandal was not to be announced i doubt cow belt uppercaste population would have accepted him as leader of BJP, irrespective of number of chariots he could have rode. Once the panic of MAndal subsided his RAthayatars hardly made any impact. You would agree that 2-88 journey was benifitted quite a lot by VP singh's anti-courription call against RAjiv GAndhi. Also, BJP in it's earlier avatar of Janasngha had around 90 seats. So, it wasn't as if LKA took over a new party (LIKE NTR in AP) . So, Vajpayee or someone as BJP's PM candidate from cow-belt was necessary. LKA side stepping was collective decision not LKA's decision. Let us not make virtue out of necessity.

4 Not uppercaste but anglicized uppercaste. This now includes large number of SCs as well due to long duration of SC/ST reservation policy. IAS lobby was the real deal maker behind Bs supporting BSP (of course with the blessing of "Mathadheeshs" like your beloved Vajpayee ji).

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Mar 2013 12:46

Sanku wrote:
Arjun wrote:As far as I can see, Karnataka municipal poll results don't mean anything. The results so far are not very different from the results of the previous poll in 2007. And that was followed by a BJP win in the Assembly elections.
I would agree with you so far. The polls especially as we go down to local levels have their own dynamics, it takes a long time to align those dynamics with bigger elections.

BJP has been sweeping the local elections in Delhi and losing the State vote.

Further, it is important to remember that BJP vote % in Kkta is low, lower than Congress, it won because of distribution of votes in seats. BJP in Kkta is by no means a well entreched party.

Despite everything, despite NaMo canvassing, despite no talk of internal fighting, BJP lost HP (could be poor candidate selection, but what is is) -- it would be premature to assume that just Modi's presence would change the vote % in Kkta or BJP's one victory would make Kkta a BJP bastion.

Yeah!! also whenever BJP lost Karnataka, it captured power in Delhi. Therefore, for Loh Purush to become PM in Delhi it is must that BJP should lose in Karnataka.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 13:09

RoyG wrote: Didn't do much. At this point he's in the driver seat. Nobody cares about that old fart Advani or Sushma. They just deliver speeches in parliament.

Yes sure. You are right.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 13:13

Sushupti wrote:
1. If "Hindu rate of growth" is not considered calling names than how can "cow belt" be considered calling names?. .

I think both are offensive, and for some one ostensibly on Hindu side trying to justify one foul mouthed comment by saying its less foul mouthed than more foul mouthed ones, is just inane.

You should first unequivocally expunge your comments before we can discuss further, otherwise I am progressively more convinced, you overt support for Hindu cause is just basically a fig leaf for running down all Hindus.

People who really believe in Hindu causes do not bring up the slur of Nehruvian rate of growth palmed off on others as a debating topic.

After you delete it, may be I will reply to other points (after deleting your quote)

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 11 Mar 2013 13:14

Can you guys take your personal CTs to the other thread created by Sushupti?

Arjun, link about KT ULB polls in 2007?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2013 13:15

Sushupti wrote: Yeah!! also whenever BJP lost Karnataka, it captured power in Delhi. Therefore, for Loh Purush to become PM in Delhi it is must that BJP should lose in Karnataka.

Kindly dont ascribe your hare brained CTs to me.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Mar 2013 13:28

Supratik wrote:Arjun, link about KT ULB polls in 2007?

Over 60% cast vote in ULB elections in Karnataka

The last time around, in 2007 (BJP government came to power in 2008), the Congress topped the tally, winning 1,606 wards, followed by JD(S) 1,502 and the BJP 1,180.