I remember seeing a shot of the upgraded gun at the OFB stall at one of the def Expo some time ago posted on BRF it self.ramana wrote:
So they are saying they can make 45 cal length barrels. Have they done a few for proof of concept and tested them or is this an offer to go figure it out?
US Ambassador to India, Timothy Roemer said that the implementation of India army's Cold Start doctrine, which lacks consensus in India and has not been fully embraced by the Manmohan Singh Government, is likely to yield "mixed results" if put to use under present circumstances, the cable
said.
"The Indian Army's 'Cold Start Doctrine' is a mixture of myth and reality. It has never been and may never be put to use on a battlefield because of substantial and serious resource constraints, but it is a developed operational attack plan announced in 2004 and intended to be taken off the shelf and implemented within a 72-hour period during a crisis. Cold Start is not a plan for a comprehensive invasion and occupation of Pakistan," said the US cable, dated February 16 and signed off by Roemer.
"Instead, it calls for a rapid, time and distance-limited penetration into Pakistani territory with the goal of
quickly punishing Pakistan, possibly in response to a Pakistan-linked terrorist attack in India, without threatening the survival of the Pakistani state or provoking a nuclear response," it said.
"We think that the November 2008 Pakistan-linked terror attack in Mumbai and its immediate aftermath provide insight into Indian and Pakistani thinking on Cold Start.
"First, the GOI refrained from implementing Cold Start even after an attack as audacious and bloody as the Mumbai attack, which calls into serious question the GOI's willingness to actually adopt the Cold Start option," it said.
"Second, the Pakistanis have known about Cold Start since 2004, but this knowledge does not seem to have prompted them to prevent terror attacks against India to extent such attacks could be controlled. This fact calls into question Cold Start's ability to deter Pakistani mischief inside India," it said.
"Finally, several very high level GOI officials have firmly stated, when asked directly about their support for Cold Start, that they have never endorsed, supported, or advocated for this doctrine. One of these officials is former National Security Advisor M K Narayanan, who has recently been replaced. While the army may remain committed to the goals of the doctrine, political support is less clear," the cable said.
"A political green-light to implement Cold Start, fraught as it is with potential nuclear consequences, would
involve a highly opaque decision-making process and would likely necessitate broad political consensus, a factor that could prolong the time between a precipitating event such as a Pakistan-linked terror attack and Cold Start deployment (which in turn could reduce the element of surprise)," it said.
Surya: Yes and No! If we are focussing on whether all 8 IBGs have all the equipment, then the answer is no. But if we can make do with, say 4 IBGs for the time being, then the answer would be yes! No?First lets even see if have the equipment for Cold start
the answer - nada -
Thats a systematic problem because it may not be possible for big ticket item to pass through all its procurement phases within a year and then most of the unspent money goes back to GOI.Surya wrote:There are lot of other things which we cannot blame the politicians especially if funds continue to be unused. politicians will point to the money being provided and being unused.
My dear fellow orbat junkie.....please to look up the number of Armored, RAPIDs and Mechanized Brigades and their spread across the existing Corps and see if you can sew up four IBG. And what impact it will have on the existing permutation and combination of Armored assets.Avik wrote:Surya: Yes and No! If we are focussing on whether all 8 IBGs have all the equipment, then the answer is no. But if we can make do with, say 4 IBGs for the time being, then the answer would be yes! No?First lets even see if have the equipment for Cold start
the answer - nada -
Hypothetically, if say, 3-4 IBGs or variants therof, were to be sent in the general direction of Sahiwal or north of Lahore, we would still be penetrating large areas of Paki Punjab, and all the while retaining our strike corps.
Thats a systematic problem because it may not be possible for big ticket item to pass through all its procurement phases within a year and then most of the unspent money goes back to GOI.
even after all this army hasn't shown interest in a wheeled APC, which is essential for large scale mechanisation.Surya wrote:And mechanization woes have been known long before that. Sundarji tried but it got stalled since
For heavens sake we are still a lorry force
Independent armoured brigades.Pratyush wrote:Rohit,
Looking at the numbers of tanks in service with the IA (Approx 4000). The IA ought to be able to field at least 6 to 7 tank divisions. (If each tank division has 400 tanks for both combat and reserve. The numbers I have seen vary from 250 to 330 tanjs per armoured devision) And still have enough for other formantions.
But it is content with 3.
What could be the possible reason for that?
Wonder by US Humvee , Russian Tigr , Italian Iveco was not invited ?The OFB Flyer is also based on an Israeli origin design. It is also made with desert warfare in mind, but is basically an upengined, uparmored ATV specifically designed for being able to traverse terrain otherwise impassible to most vehicles.
Perhaps they wanted a made in India vehicle onlee.I am still wondering why Humvee, Iveco and Tigr is not part of the race ...we could have got a good deal. { perhaps its expensive ? }
My dear fellow orbat junkie.....please to look up the number of Armored, RAPIDs and Mechanized Brigades and their spread across the existing Corps and see if you can sew up four IBG. And what impact it will have on the existing permutation and combination of Armored assets.
Just give me some time and let me try and come up with some fancy combos !!No such thing as a Cold Start Doctrine as an operational doctrine, as opposed to a mobilization objective. It has always been in the domain of thinkers and analysts.dinesha wrote:Hopefully this will lead into bringing the discussions about the Cold Start doctrine into forefront amongst the strategic planners, thinkers and analysts..
No, such a possibility worries them but it has not paralyzed them with terror. But it does give them a convenient fig-leaf cover to retain all their troops on the Indo-Pak border and dither on the service expected on the Af-Pak border after all that US payments and support.Lalmohan wrote:TSPA is terrified of cold start... this fear gives them the fig-leaf to retain all its troops on the Indian border.
NEW DELHI: India's 'Cold Start' war doctrine continues to evoke much concern in Pakistan and elsewhere. So much so that the Indian Army, after constant prodding by the US, has now taken to denying that the words 'Cold Start' even exist in its doctrinal lexicon.
The 1.13-million strong Army prefers to call it 'Pro-active Strategy'. But whatever be the phraseology, the aim is to mobilize fast and strike hard across the border, without crossing Pakistan's nuclear red lines.
The strategy revolves around self-contained and highly-mobile 'battle groups', with T-90S and T-72 M1 tanks at its core, adequately backed by air cover and artillery fire assaults, for rapid thrusts into enemy territory within 72 to
96 hours of the government directive.
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