News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 May 2011 07:13

devesh wrote:what is DI, MA, and HS?

Dawood, Masood and Hafeez.

U.S. And Pakistan: Ties That Bind, But Also Chafe

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 May 2011 07:38

Thanks pgbhatji!

It is up to TSPA+ISI to choose between humiliation and maturity

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 08 May 2011 08:01

As-h-phuck always looks constipated. It's because every military person in the Puki hierarchy has a all meat diet. Can't become a "martial" race with fiber in your diet. Of course, eating all those goats makes you eventually devolve into a goat, which is what we see happening. No insults to real goats of course.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 May 2011 08:14

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/-299428--.html
Mark Steyn: Why Pakistan knew it could hide Osama

preoccupied with the usual assumptions about Public Enemy Number One – caves, dialysis, remote wild Pakistani tribal lands where Western intelligence hasn't a hope of penetrating unless you turn a cousin of the village headman, etc. All these assumptions prevailed until a few days ago, when it emerged that Osama, three wives and 13 children had been living in town in a purpose-built pad round the corner from the Pakistani Military Academy for over half a decade. Brunch every Sunday with a couple of generals at his usual corner table at the Abbottabad Hilton? Eggs Benedict, hold the ham?The belated dispatch of Osama testifies to what the United States does well – elite warriors, superbly trained, equipped to a level of technological sophistication no other nation can match. Everything else surrounding the event (including White House news management so club-footed that one starts to wonder darkly whether its incompetence is somehow intentional) embodies what the United States does badly. Pakistan, our "ally," hides and protects not only Osama but also Mullah Omar and Zawahiri, and does so secure in the knowledge that it will pay no price for its treachery – indeed, confident that its duplicitous military will continue to be funded by U.S. taxpayers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 May 2011 09:08

Does it look like a $M mansion. To me looks like some scam by ISI to siphon the funds elsewhere.

Time magazine graphic has a Chinook shown. Along with two other helicopters. One hits the wall.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 May 2011 09:26

CRamS wrote:Pukes are going into a tizzy

There are contradictory reports emerging from within Pakistan about what really happened to the radar network. While its foreign secretary hinted at the possibility of radars being jammed, the air force maintains that its radars were inactive on the particular day.

............

...........

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 08 May 2011 10:05

Scared Dawood Ibrahim may shift son's wedding

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 08 May 2011 10:16

Can Indian AWACS and other Indian radars on our side of border not pick up 4 choppers near Abbottabad? I am not that technical so pardon my ignorance.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 May 2011 10:22

we do not have AWACS (which is the name of a particular brand), we have phalcon AEW&C. you can't have them in the air all the time but I am quite certain we would have detected the helos unless they were flying NOE or completely invisible to radar. the later is unlikely IMO.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 08 May 2011 10:28

Rahul M wrote:we do not have AWACS (which is the name of a particular brand), we have phalcon AEW&C. you can't have them in the air all the time but I am quite certain we would have detected the helos unless they were flying NOE or completely invisible to radar. the later is unlikely IMO.

Lets suppose by luck we did detect,what would be the SOP and protocol of IAF. Its unusual for those helos flying at that hour. Will we not log such an event. There must be some record of it on our side.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 May 2011 10:29

say karachi is 500km away from a possible targeting radar source, not sure which radar we have to track a low flying object in karachi at that distance?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 08 May 2011 10:49

Aditya G wrote:Me thinks that Pakis only did not know the timing or intention of the raid - but had infact kept Osama under house arrest in military cantonment and knew CIA was also watching him to prevent escape.

correct me too thinks the same. This was my earlier quote:

Another theory. ISI is professional as much as an evil it is. It is possible that ISI got a sniff of what US is looking. And US knew that ISI knew. US summoned pasha to sternly warn not to repeat TORA BORA. Demanded status quo of the mansion and the inhabitants. They ordered pasha and kiyani to keep 2-3 paths clear from then on until the judgment day.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 08 May 2011 11:01

Why cant IAF disclose that it did detect 4 helos from its radar sites in Uri sector or from Phalcon AEW&C at an undisclosed location. It would be jale pe namak.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 May 2011 11:18

ramana wrote:Does it look like a $M mansion. To me looks like some scam by ISI to siphon the funds elsewhere.

Time magazine graphic has a Chinook shown. Along with two other helicopters. One hits the wall.

Conveniences and faciities in that house are bare minimum. It is more possible that he was under house-arrest. That theory sounds much more likely.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 08 May 2011 11:21

Anujan wrote:This is getting to be fun.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 191679.cms

Pakistani media on Saturday once again publicly named the CIA station chief in Islamabad, a breach of both protocol and trust, that is bound to enrage Washington.

Why do I always know it is Chidu before even clicking on the link?

Based on his track record, I cannot say that he reads US establishment's mood and intentions correctly.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 May 2011 11:25

yes the interior and exterior both look truly shabby. even factoring in cost of land - look at his pathetic TV - we had such TVs in mid 1980s...a spiffy media rack and 56" LED TV , leather upholstered home theater , leather bound jihadi videos and literature was expected ... the bed looks worse than any I could pickup here shivajinagar...definitely not the kit of a VVIP guest of the state. and the revered Pir had been living in this pigsty for months and years...

methinks they stopped his shuffling between safehouses on some pretext and started negotiations with US on what price POTUS would pay them for his head. the price asked was probably a bit high for Obama so he kept talking but using chankian logic started prep for a unilateral strike in parallel which was duly executed

now ISI is asking for the agreement to be honoured and Obama says 'what bill, what aggreement' ?

I am 301% sure Pak will launch a huge end to end PAF air defence exercise in the next few days and fire off a few missiles to 'show the world' how powerful and 24x7 they are on the ball.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 May 2011 11:46

Jihadis React to Bin Laden's Death

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 08 May 2011 11:55

Pakistan did not catch Osama and will not hand over the second-in-command/deputy of Osama, i.e. Ayman al-Zawahiri, because of what they represent. Cash cows.

In similar vein, the pakis will not shut down the haqqani network and the afghan Taliban because of what they really represent, the ability to provide strategic depth in Afghanistan. Can america really compel Pakistan to do anything about these two entities? If america could not prevent Pakistan from providing refuge to Osama for more than half-a-decade, it is really doubtful that it will be able to compel Pakistan to do anything about these two entities.

America's problem can be traced back in months immediately after 9/11. The watershed moment as far as Pakistan-American strategic outlook was the kunduz air lift. In this air lift, under the watchful gaze of american forces, land and air, Pakistan flew numerous flights to Pakistan. On these flights all sundry elements were rescued by PAF/PA. From Pakistan's view point this airlift demonstrated that Americans would not really push Pakistan to the edge and over.

Nothing is going to change in the US-Pak relationship. The things are going to remain the same. America will still depend on Pakistan for all the lethal supplies to Afghanistan, because of the lack of alternatives. Pakistan would still shelter the Haqqani network and the Afghan Taliban. And if somehow these two entities were reduced significantly by the yanks, than the Pakistani's would raise some groups to achieve strategic depth in Afghanistan. In other words post 9/11 Pakistan has not changed much and nor has it made any course correction as it was claimed by certain people.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 May 2011 12:41

hello Aaryan, much as I would like to continue this entertaining conversation, I am unable to.
suffice to say, I believe I have made my points and will expect you to adhere to them. not doing so comes with its own set of problems.

lastly, unless explicitly stated otherwise, always assume that any action by any mod is indicative of the whole mod team. if you have a problem with my moderation you are most welcome to take it up with the webmaster.
cheers.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 May 2011 13:16

Look at it this way folks. Bin Laden - one of the world's most wanted men, assumed to be lving in a cave - shitting in that cave and eating half-cooked food and shivering in winter was actually sitting in a pukka house with access to wives, children, frends, cooked food, baths, toilet etc.

Arguing that it was "run down", "TV was old model" , House not $1 million - (only 500,000 maybe?_ etc almost makes me feel sorry for his suffering. The man was living in the lap of luxury. He was living better than 160 million Pakis at least. That video shows a second TV to the left and a computer on the right. No doubt the house had 24X7 water and electricity. The man may have had a media room/entertainment room as well.

It is little consolation to think that he did not have modern looking house or TV set. The fact is a house that is "modern" would require workmen to come in and spruce it up. And in India LCD TVs and other flat electronic display TVs have come within reach of the more wealthy people only in the last 6-7 years. The prices are beginning to touch mango man level only this year. A very large number of people still use older sets.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 May 2011 13:22

Altair wrote:Why cant IAF disclose that it did detect 4 helos from its radar sites in Uri sector or from Phalcon AEW&C at an undisclosed location. It would be jale pe namak.

Because
1) The IAF may have detected nothing
2) if it did, announcing exactly what it detected would give everyone an idea of its capabilities
3) Lying that they saw 4 helos if they did not (or saw other un announced movements) means the lie would be caught instantly by the US who would definitely have had far far many more assets in teh air than just 4 helos.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 08 May 2011 13:32

devesh wrote:
Venkarl wrote:looks like a gay
actually he looks like a transsexual who's having trouble fitting into man's clothes....

hijra or kojja...

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 May 2011 13:59

X Posted from the ISI News and Discussion thread.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, specifically the ISI / ISID, is spinning the story that Osama Bin Laden had been sidelined in a presumed ploy to peddle the message that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan ‘s failure to take OBL down was not significant as he had played a small role in overseeing Al-Qaida over the past six years and thereby deflect the US wrath currently focussed on the Islamic Republic:

MAY 6, 2011

Split Seen Between bin Laden, Deputy

By ZAHID HUSSAIN in Islamabad and KEITH JOHNSON in Washington

Osama bin Laden and the deputy leader of al Qaeda "parted ways" six years ago, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said Thursday

The official said bin Laden had been "marginalized" by his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, who helped bin Laden found al Qaeda in 1988 and led its operation in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He added that bin Laden had been sidelined because he no longer had the funds to support al Qaeda operations and that his popularity in the network was slipping. "They had parted ways some six years ago," he said.

Portraying bin Laden as sidelined within al Qaeda could help Pakistan's reputation in the aftermath of his death by implying that he had little to do with al Qaeda or its recent attacks—suggesting that Pakistan's failure to find him wasn't such a significant lapse. Pakistani officials have expressed embarrassment that the U.S. found bin Laden in Pakistan and are probing the intelligence failure. …………………….

Wall Street Journal

The US is however not buying the snake oil being peddled by Islamic Republic of Pakistan and instead have disclosed that Osama Bin Laden “remained an active leader in al Qaeda, providing strategic, operational and tactical instructions to the group“:

The following is a key point: the materials reviewed over the past several days clearly show that bin Laden remained an active leader in al Qaeda, providing strategic, operational and tactical instructions to the group. Though separated from many al Qaeda members who are located in more remote areas of the region, he was far from a figurehead. He was an active player making the recent operation even more essential for our nation’s security.

The materials reviewed thus far reveal that bin Laden continued to direct even tactical details of the group’s management and to encourage plotting. The materials show that bin Laden remained focused on inspiring and engineering international terrorism and specifically on attacking the United States. In fact, one previously unreleased video, which we will show momentarily, is a self-styled message to the United States.

Background Briefing with Senior Intelligence Official at the Pentagon on Intelligence Aspects of the U.S. Operation Involving Osama Bin Laden

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 08 May 2011 14:41

Altair wrote:Can Indian AWACS and other Indian radars on our side of border not pick up 4 choppers near Abbottabad? I am not that technical so pardon my ignorance.

And pardon my ignorance as well but...it must be regular these days in Pakistan to have choopers flying here & there, even if the local military came to know , sr officers must have slipped under kambal knowing the fate they will meet if they engaged the force.

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 08 May 2011 16:35

NRao wrote:

Good one

! Inspired from the Asterix comics I guess.
Minor nitpick - the 'chieftain' could have been shown standing on the shield.

vic · Post by **vic** » 08 May 2011 16:51

rajithn wrote:Couple of observations from the video they showed on CNN..and other snippets that have appeared in the news.
1. The dwelling looked pretty rudimentary. A decade old TV set, clumsy wiring, an old desk..and OBL sitting on the Pakistani version of a lazy-boy (quoting CNN). While I am not saying that it should be well appointed, if this was a "bare essentials" dwelling, why build a 3-story house for him and his family? Could it have been that there were other HV targets who were captured that day? Which is being kept quiet? Could it have been that OBL and family shared the house with other AQ leadership?
2. There are claims in the media that a safehouse was established by the CIA in the vicinity for the purposes of a stakeout of OBLs compound. Couple of questions arise:
a. By the same logic that the Pakis should have known about OBL living there, shouldnt they have also figured out that one of the other houses was a CIA stakeout joint?
b. If the Pakis knew about OBL living there wouldnt they have been extra-cautious about other residents in the neighborhood? How did the CIA manage to get past that surveillance?
3. If indeed a CIA surveillance point was established in the vicinity, wouldnt it lend credence to another poster's suggestion that perhaps the assault was initiated from the ground (inserting SF members to the CIA house over days/weeks) and coordinated with a heli-evac?

There is just one simple answer that USA has a few high level moles in ISI-PAK Army who were tasked to protect Obama

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 May 2011 17:16

You guys know what? We should target Musharraf as Enemy #1 and then Dawood as Enemy #2. It was Musharraf who planned and executed Kargil, He is our real enemy #1.The rest, Omars and others follow in the list after these top two.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 May 2011 17:19

sanjeevpunj wrote:You guys know what? We should target Musharraf as Enemy #1 and then Dawood as Enemy #2. It was Musharraf who planned and executed Kargil, He is our real enemy #1.The rest, Omars and others follow in the list after these top two.

We already have a list of 20 that has now grown longer
http://india.indymedia.org/en/2003/08/7082.shtml

1. Maulana Azhar Masood, leader of Jaish-i-Mohammad, blamed for the attack on India's parliament. He is also wanted for an attack on the occupied Kashmir legislature on Oct 1, in which 38 people were killed.

2. Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, co-founder of Lashkar-i-Taiba, also blamed for the attack on parliament in New Delhi. India says he operates from Muridke town, near Lahore.

3. Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian underworld don, accused of planning and financing 13 explosions in Mumbai in 1993 in which almost 300 people died.

Ibrahim is wanted in connection with cases of arms supply, counterfeiting, drugs trade, funding alleged criminals, murder and smuggling. India says he lives in Karachi.

4. Chhota Shakeel, a key associate of Ibrahim. Wanted for murder, extortion, kidnapping, blackmail of businessmen and film stars. India also alleges he is a top spy for the ISI, living in Karachi.

5. "Tiger" Ibrahim Memon, accused of executing the 1993 Mumbai blasts. He is wanted in cases of murder, extortion, kidnapping, terrorism and smuggling arms and explosives.

Memon, another key associate of Ibrahim, lives in Karachi and travels frequently to Dubai, according to the Indian list.

6. Ayub Memon, accused of executing the 1993 Mumbai blasts. He is alleged to have helped his brother Ibrahim Memon carry out the blasts. He is wanted in cases of terrorism and smuggling. India says he lives in Karachi.

7. Abdul Razzak, accused of involvement in the Mumbai blasts. He is wanted in cases of terrorism and arms smuggling. India says he lives in Karachi.

8. Syed Salahuddin, head of Hizbul Mujahideen, which has claimed responsibility for dozens of attacks on Indian forces in held Kashmir. India says he lives in Muzaffarabad.

9. Ibrahim Athar, an associate of Maulana Azhar Masood and alleged to be one of the hijackers of Indian Airlines flight IC-814 from Kathmandu to Delhi in 1999. He is a member of Jaish-i-Mohammad and is wanted for hijacking, kidnapping and murder. India says he lives in Bahawalpur.

10. Zahoor Ibrahim Mistri, a member of Harkat-ul-Ansar, which later changed its name to Harkat-ul-Mujahideen. He is wanted in connection with the hijacking of IC-814 and in cases of kidnapping and murder. The Indian list says Mistri lives in Karachi.

11. Shahid Akhtar Sayed, is wanted for the IC-814 hijacking and for kidnapping and murder. According to New Delhi, he lives in Karachi.

12. Azhar Yusuf, wanted in the IC-814 hijacking case and in cases of kidnapping and murder. India says he is in Karachi.

13. Abdul Karim, a Kashmiri freedom fighter blamed for more than 30 bomb blasts in Delhi and parts of northern India in 1996-97. India says he is in Lahore.

14. Ishaq Atta Hussain, an associate of Dawood Ibrahim, is wanted in connection with a conspiracy to kill Indian Home Minister L.K. Advani. India says he lives in Karachi.

15. Sagir Sabir Ali Shaikh, an associate of Dawood Ibrahim, is also wanted in connection with the conspiracy to kill Advani. India says he too lives in Karachi.

16. Wadhawan Singh Babbar, chief of Sikh group Babbar Khalsa International, which was involved in an insurgency in East Punjab during the 1980s. He is wanted in over a dozen cases of sedition, murder and in connection with the assassination of East Punjab's then chief minister Beant Singh. India says he lives in Lahore.

17. Ranjit Singh Neeta, chief of Khalistan Zindabad Force. He is wanted in cases of murder, bomb blasts and smuggling of arms. The Indian list says he lives in Lahore.

18. Paramjit Singh Panjwar, leader of the Khalistan Commando Force. He is accused of trying to revive the Sikh insurgency in East Punjab and is wanted in more than a dozen cases of murder, treason, conspiracy and arms smuggling.He lives in Lahore, according to thelist.

19. Lakhbir Singh Rode, leader of the International Sikh Youth Federation, is wanted in cases of arms smuggling, conspiracy to attack government leaders in Delhi and inciting religious hatred in East Punjab. He lives in Lahore, India says.

20. Gajinder Singh, leader of Sikh group Dal Khalsa, is accused of hijacking an Indian Airlines plane from Srinagar to Delhi in 1981. He was arrested by Pakistan after he hijacked the plane to Lahore and tried. India says he lives in Lahore after his release from prison. -Reuters

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 May 2011 17:34

^^^^^

Thanks Shiv, for the list.
In 1991 I was in the famous Muktsar town, where I saw these guys, specially Rode and Paramjit Sing Panjwar and some others.Badal's son was present too.We were covering for EYEWITNESS Video Newsmagazine, a meeting organised by militants and politicians, with the purpose of getting the militants to surrender in Punjab. It was a venue guarded by Security Forces from all directions, and at a point of time, it could have been a site of massacre, however common sense prevailed and personal issues were buried.All these guys perhaps still keep coming into India and disappearing without a trace.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 08 May 2011 18:01

Justice for Osama

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 May 2011 18:13

Pakistan is still unsure of the extent of Western retribution over its sanctuary to Osama. It is banking on a temporary frostiness that will dissipate in the face of the imminent departure from Afghanistan. Pakistan has reposed faith in the two aces it has up its sleeve: its nuclear assets and its firm alliance with China. The West, it believes, will bark but won’t dare bite.

In the normal course, India would have been an additional pressure point on Pakistan. Having abandoned that option, India has made itself redundant in the Great Game. Singh may yet get to visit his native village in Pakistan. In craving that privilege, he may also secure India’s banishment from Afghanistan and the onward march of China in South Asia.

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... great-game

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 May 2011 18:42

Hitler finds out that osama is dead

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 May 2011 18:52

Devil's Advocate questions Musharraf, post OBL death.
Here's a link to Karan Thapar's interview of Musharraf for Devil's Advocate. Musharraf agrees that US personnel must leave Pakistan.Quit Pakistan movement to begin......
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/osama-in-pak ... 635-2.html

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 08 May 2011 19:18

Pat Condell in the video above

>>"They should have kept the body, they should have bought the son-of-a-bitch back to New York, pickled him in alcohol, and mounted him on top of the Ground Zero mosque with a pork chop in his mouth and a fireman's axe up his arse....."

Damn, the man has style

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 May 2011 19:22

^^^
the man's got balls! definitely watch that video everybody...

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 May 2011 20:09

X Posted from the TSP thread.

The US President Barak Obama expects the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to investigate its own Government and Intelligence Agencies to determine if the Islamic Republic was sheltering Osama Bin Laden.

Quite a change in position from not informing the Pakistani’s about the mission to take down Osama Bin Laden owing to a lack of trust that the Pakistani’s would not tip Osama Bin Laden about the mission to take him down:

STEVE KROFT: "Do you believe people in the Pakistani government, Pakistani intelligence agencies knew that bin Laden was living there?"

PRESIDENT OBAMA: "We think that there had to be some sort of support network for bin Laden inside of Pakistan. But we don't know who or what that support network was.

We don't know whether there might have been some people inside of government, people outside of government, and that's something that we have to investigate and, more importantly, the Pakistani government has to investigate.

And we've already communicated to them, and they have indicated they have a profound interest in finding out what kinds of support networks bin Laden might have had. But these are questions that we're not going to be able to answer three or four days after the event.

It's going to take some time for us to be able to exploit the intelligence that we were able to gather on site."

Obama: Bin Laden had support in Pakistan, but we don't know who

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 08 May 2011 20:14

Rudradev, I have been visiting this forum since its inception and that is the single greatest post I have read. Thank your for sharing your thoughts. Just one personal rant. While many on this forum admire IG for her "strong" leadership, her utter and total incompetence in (mis)handling India's economy has led millions to suffer needlessly and continue to haunt India to this day. Thank God for PVNR. Again thank you for that magnificent post.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 08 May 2011 21:06

Aaryan wrote:but till I get banned I also have the right to ask, write what I feel is right..

If a mod asks you to cease comments that may derail the thread, I would think that a reasonable person would comply. Why should a ban be necessary? Your choice.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 May 2011 21:49

Altair wrote:
Rahul M wrote:we do not have AWACS (which is the name of a particular brand), we have phalcon AEW&C. you can't have them in the air all the time but I am quite certain we would have detected the helos unless they were flying NOE or completely invisible to radar. the later is unlikely IMO.
Lets suppose by luck we did detect,what would be the SOP and protocol of IAF. Its unusual for those helos flying at that hour. Will we not log such an event. There must be some record of it on our side.

since I am not part of the decision making loop, I can only guess that they would prioritise the flight and if considered hostile or at least suspicious, they would alert ADGES under their net.

Altair wrote:Why cant IAF disclose that it did detect 4 helos from its radar sites in Uri sector or from Phalcon AEW&C at an undisclosed location. It would be jale pe namak.

have you EVER seen IAF give detailed radar intercept info like that ?

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 08 May 2011 21:51

OT again but necessary
PVNR had nothing to do with liberalisation..Nor MMS had anything to do with it.
Liberalisation was the need and their arms were twisted by IMF.
Please dont make heroes outta them.
And IG was dumb as far as economics was concerned...These Kangress wallas wont change no status quo as long as they in power or can smell it.
The same reason why we keep absorbing attack after attack of pockroaches.
Regards