India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Philip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Warning shots are usually fired irst.Whether they were fired at all is a moot point.The Yanquis are so tigger happy...!

Now we will see pandora's box openede if the court has its way and the dark deeds of the US's secret concentration camps abroad come to light.

Court demands secret files on US 'black jails’
The United States is facing fresh embarrassment over its use of 'black' detention sites after the European Court of Human Rights ordered Poland to hand over secret documents about its role in the War on Terror, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

XCpt:
17 Jul 2012
Judges in Strasbourg have requested documents that contain details of how the CIA set up its "extraordinary rendition" centre outside Warsaw in 2002 where it subjected al-Qaeda suspects to water-boarding and other extreme interrogation techniques.

A month ago, a Polish whistle-blower alleged that a document existed which allowed the setting up of the prison – including procedures to adopt in the event of an inmate's death. It was said to have been signed by the head of Polish intelligence.

According to the leak, American officials "laughed" and refused to sign the document. "They considered us amateurs and explained that this kind of business could not be dealt with by means of formal agreements," the Polish newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza reported.

Polish officials have refused to confirm or deny the existence of the agreement, citing official secrets laws, as part of a four-year investigation into the jail.

However, in a decision hailed by civil rights lawyers, the court has asked the Polish government to confirm the existence of the agreement and "if that document exists ... to supply a copy." Both Poland and the US have fought to keep operational details of the camp secret. Under European law Poland has until Sept 5 to comply with the court's request for information, a copy of which has been seen by this
The court demand was made after US civil rights lawyers filed a compensation claim at the court in Strasbourg on behalf of Abd al Rahim al Nashiri, the man accused of masterminding the October 2000 suicide bomb attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors.

Lawyers for al Nashiri, who was detained at the Polish prison for six months from December 2002 to June 2003, said the court order was a "significant step forward" in the ongoing battle to lift the veil of secrecy surrounding the CIA's rendition programme. "It would be a significant step forward for relevant documents to be produced so that the truth can finally be aired," said Amrit Singh, of the New York-based Open Society Justice Initiative which filed the case.

"Every single case brought by a rendition victim in the United States has been dismissed, until now no rendition victim has had their day in court. The US has never officially acknowledged any of its secret locations.

"The US and Poland conducted this secret rendition and torture operation on European territory without any judicial review or oversight, and now a European court is showing that it takes these violations very seriously," she added.

The European court's demand for information is potentially deeply embarrassing for the US government as it puts al Nashiri on trial at a war crimes tribunal in Guantánamo Bay, which began hearing pre-trial motions on Tuesday.

The court questions could also circumvent US government attempts to block requests by the al Nashiri defence team for the release of official documents relating to his detention in Poland and other sites in Morocco and Thailand.

Prosecution lawyers have urged the war crimes tribunal not to give up documents relating to the "arrest, detention and rendition" of al Nashiri, arguing they are "not material" to his defence and that the Guantánamo tribunal has no power to order foreign governments to hand them over.

The CIA black site at the Stare Kijekuty army base 110 miles north of Warsaw has caused a major political scandal in Poland as details emerged about how al Nashiri was subjected to mock executions, kept hooded and naked and threatened with a power drill and the rape of his family members.

In evidence given to an earlier Guantánamo Bay hearing in 2007, al Nashiri said his physical torture was so severe that "before I was arrested I used to be able to run about 10km. Now, I cannot walk for more than 10 minutes".

The court has also demanded to know whether Poland knowingly allowed al Nashiri to be tortured and sent to a country – Morocco – that used the death penalty, which would be a serious breach of European law.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Anand K »

Would warning shots from a "small caliber" weapon register in a skiff traveling at high speed in the sea? And how accurate would a burst or two of 50 cal warning fire, operated by humans in a moving vessel, be against a small target inbound at 25 knots be?
In the old days the main guns would be used to lob a shell far away from the target, euphemistically the "shot across the bow", to warn them..... but then you had a big splash which could hardly be missed. The USNS ship was not carrying that sort of weapons, right?

I'm aware the US forces/cops are tad more trigger happy than others.... but I think we should note how they got to that point. The USMC barracks carnage in Lebanon (smiling Arab drives a truck full of death into the camp) and 9/11 (I remember the visa and Permanent Resident regime being much more flexible before this) and USS Cole etc... and of course the paranoid electronic IFF/Threat Warning Systems on their machines. You know, the kind that marks a highway pandu with a radar gun as a hostile presence.

Anyway, let's wait and see if more details emerge. Who knows if P.O (3rd class) Billy Bob had a bet with Seaman Zack on how many 50 cal rounds it takes to sink Sindbad's little boat?
Last edited by Anand K on 18 Jul 2012 18:29, edited 1 time in total.
Lalmohan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

the shootdown of the iranian airliner precedes some of the events described
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vishvak »

While arabs were steering the boat, no arabs have been wounded even. May be the illiterate fishermen are the cheapest casualty in the incident that neither sunk boat nor injure the arabs steering the boat and perhaps running away from danger, for all its sharp aims from trained personnel with the best equipments.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shyamd »

There should have been warning shots and then shots at the engine to disable it. Depends on time to react too. If this guy was shooting for 5 minutes, why werent there moer casualties?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Anand K »

Good question..... 50 cal can bring down pillboxes. How did the boat survive five minutes of hearts and minds? And the Arab speed demons behind glass windows of the bridge survived while the Indian dies? Bhagwan is most merciful.

One more thing.... a human being hit by a .50 cal at 70 yards WILL NOT survive. Most likely the unfortunate one will be split into two. So are the injuries and death due to shrapnel flying around as a result of a burst or two of M2? Some pics i saw of the survivors show them in casts and bandages they use for superficial cuts.
Anybody got any info on this?

One of the survivors did say 5 minutes of shooting.... but 5 minutes of 50 cal on a fishing boat? Can you fire a 50 cal for 5 minutes even with belt ammo? The barrel will melt off, hain?! Maybe it felt like an eternity to the ones facing the barrage....

JMTC
Last edited by Anand K on 18 Jul 2012 18:26, edited 1 time in total.
Altair
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Altair »

^^I think they did not get their story right. Lot of loose ends.None of it makes any sense. But why?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

SSridhar wrote:Anger & Sorrow at victim's village
Sekar had gone to Dubai 10 months ago, spending Rs 1 lakh borrowed at an exorbitant interest in the process. The debt was yet to be settled, his family said.
Can you imagine if Sekar were blue-eyed Blonde Christian/Jewish and shot by SDRE navy patrol men? Can you imagine the sympathy Sekar would have garnered, and the villification the SDRE would have received?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by habal »

Anand K wrote:Good question..... 50 cal can bring down pillboxes. How did the boat survive five minutes of hearts and minds? And the Arab speed demons behind glass windows of the bridge survived while the Indian dies? Bhagwan is most merciful.

One more thing.... a human being hit by a .50 cal at 70 yards WILL NOT survive. Most likely the unfortunate one will be split into two. So are the injuries and death due to shrapnel flying around as a result of a burst or two of M2? Some pics i saw of the survivors show them in casts and bandages they use for superficial cuts.
Anybody got any info on this?

One of the survivors did say 5 minutes of shooting.... but 5 minutes of 50 cal on a fishing boat? Can you fire a 50 cal for 5 minutes even with belt ammo? The barrel will melt off, hain?! Maybe it felt like an eternity to the ones facing the barrage....

JMTC
according to the eyewitnesses i.e. fellow fishermen who were with Shekar, that boat had crossed the warship and after it crossed and was moving away from the warship, when the Navy gunner opened fire at the boat, there heard no warning before the shots, the Navy gunner shot at the 9 metre boat from behind. Warnings given usually are alerts in multiple (one in english and one local) languages and warning shots are fired in the air. The dead man's body was torn into 3 pieces due to the impact of .50 calibre bullet.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Anand K »

Re Habal,

Can you post a link to the news please?
TIA
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Do we have specs for the fishing boat like engine and ship details?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Anand K »

Arnab G says the boat was a 9M boat... and the videos indeed showed to be a glorified rowboat. When I heard it was a 50 ft boat which is allowed to ply the TFTA UAE's waters I expected it to be a modern trawler.

A K Doval's essential point about the victim's POV is important too. Forget the USNS S.O.P and their history and their POV... We are laborers from India/UAE trying to make a honest living in a seaworthy boat and following the rules of the land. We are following all written SOPs and international laws and most importantly haven't mounted a 160mm cannon or a jolly roger on my boat's bow. Why the hell were we shot at? Nobody in authority told us that we have to keep distance from any ship painted grey.....

The statement from the wounded crew about receiving no form of warnings and getting shot at while moving away from the ship is also serious. Note that the American official is terming this "maneuvering around a warship".

Sach kya he? Gotta wait I guess.

PS: Arnab G started out so promisingly when Times Now roped him in.... incisive logic and enough emotion to sharpen the words. Now he sounds like one of those fully unhinged fire and brimstone preachers! Aey bandhu, getting a raging h@rd-on is good once in a while and when the occasion calls for it. Having a h@rd-on 24/7 isn't going to do anyone any good and will also hurt you in the bargain . :(
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Deans »

From the reports I've seen in the UAE Media (not contradicted by the survivors): The US warship was sailing parallel to the UAE coast while the fishing vessel was trying to get home. They decided to cross the US Vessel's bow (front), then decided that it was not possible and so decided to cross its stern (rear). If this is correct, it meant:
1. The US Vessel had right of way (you give way to vessels on your right). This is the most basic `rule of the road' and the fishing vessel should have either slowed down and/or changed course well in advance.
2. Belatedly deciding to change course (while not reducing speed), put it on a collision course with the US Vessel. If this was a suicide bombing
attempt, that is what a `suicide boat' would have done.
3. It is claimed, the US vessel opened fire when the fishing boat was 100m away. At a speed of 20+ knots, that's 8 seconds away from a
possible collision and possibly another USS Cole.
I'm not trying to defend the USN, just suggesting that things are not as clear as some media reports suggest.

The info that one would need to ask the crew of the fishing boat (ideally the Arabs steering it, not the Indians working on deck) and glean from the radar track of the US ship is:
- Their course and course changes during the encounter.
- Speed and distance.
The only other point is weather prior warnings were given and if so, how effective were they.

Also, its a UAE vessel in UAE waters, being fired upon by the USN. The 2 parties to the dispute are the UAE & USA. India's locus standii
would technically be limited to the compensation claim from the victim's employer, or the USN (through the employer).
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

Also, its a UAE vessel in UAE waters, being fired upon by the USN. The 2 parties to the dispute are the UAE & USA. India's locus standii
would technically be limited to the compensation claim from the victim's employer, or the USN (through the employer).
Will you be saying the same thing if it's an American who got killed? what about Mumbai massacre? Americans too killed on Indian soil by TSP goons, where is any 'locus standi' of americans well of course except for helping TSP kill Indians?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pentaiah »

The above is 100 % correct india is third party to the incident
Hope the guy who died had life insurance or atleast the boat owners had good marine policy
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

The problem is Americans rush to blame others when it involves the life of an American, when in the place of an American, someone else dies, they act as if that person's life has no value. Say USN is found guilty, will US gov extradite the trigger happy yank to India? your answer says it all, on the other hand if it were Indian who kills an American, they will raise a hell, the media by now would have made a monster of the Indian similar to the Ravi episode.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Deans »

venug wrote:
Also, its a UAE vessel in UAE waters, being fired upon by the USN. The 2 parties to the dispute are the UAE & USA. India's locus standii
would technically be limited to the compensation claim from the victim's employer, or the USN (through the employer).
Will you be saying the same thing if it's an American who got killed? what about Mumbai massacre? Americans too killed on Indian soil by TSP goons, where is any 'locus standi' of americans well of course except for helping TSP kill Indians?
Venu g, I'm not trying to compare incidents, just commenting on this one. If an American was killed by the IN in a similar incident, I'd say it was a tragic accident, but I'm not the GoI and my view is irrelevant. I am terribly distressed by GoI's reaction (or lack of it) to 26/11, but I wouldn't like that to influence the way I'm looking at this incident.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Deans »

Incidentally, I've sailed on the straits of Hormuz - from Dubai to Iran, more than once. I've been on the bridge of an Iranian Naval ship watching a USN ship a short distance away. It is a very crowded area and given the tension between the US and Iran, its important for everyone to be extra careful.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

Dean, I understand, I too want justice to prevail, but unfortunately when a historical context is presented, Indians feel let down over and over again, that makes us take a stand like the one I mentioned. The reason why I compare or bring in 2611 is to highlight this point. If only access to Headley was given, if only US acted on the information it already knew, Indian lives could have been saved. The perspective or opinion of a common Indian like me would have been different. American attitude towards TSP when it was instrumental in killing thousands of Indians too effects judgement, can't help. Just looking at one sole incident might not happen as Indians have been burnt before by US.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Deans »

venug wrote:The problem is Americans rush to blame others when it involves the life of an American, when in the place of an American, someone else dies, they act as if that person's life has no value. Say USN is found guilty, will US gov extradite the trigger happy yank to India? your answer says it all, on the other hand if it were Indian who kills an American, they will raise a hell, the media by now would have made a monster of the Indian similar to the Ravi episode.
Venu, you are right. We can't change how US views the life of an Indian, so let us change how we view the lives of our citizens, in India. The examples I am going to give are tangential, but something that bugs me a lot;

A politician in UP kills a kid, when he fires his weapon to celebrate. The media covers it for 15 mins and that's it. The CM doesn't give
a F*#%. Will we insist that the shooter face trial for murder ? The kid might get compensation, if his family pays a bribe.
So should we expect something very different, if an Indian is fired upon in some other country ?

The biggest media coverage for the past month, in Bangalore (where I now live), has been that of the French diplomat allegedly molesting his child. The case has been filed by his wife, who is also a french citizen. At the same time, we have the horrific case
of scores of kids being abused in Govt run child homes. Again, one day of coverage and no one will get punished. Why are we more indignant about a case involving 2 French citizens, than we are about hundreds of our children being routinely abused by those who are supposed to protect them.

Yes, I would like that India gets to the bottom of this shooting incident and I do think the US tends to be trigger happy and unapologetic, but that would be higher on my `things to get riled about list', once I see justice being done in my own country.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

>> We can't change how US views the life of an Indian, so let us change how we view the lives of our citizens, in India.

:rotfl: Wonderful argument. Now when an Indian dies near UAE, we can start a discussion on UP politicians.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

Deans, lets not bring internal Indian things which has nothing to do with the trigegr happy Americans. Is Indian justice system as good as it should be. No ? Are Indians more concerned about other Indians as they should be ? Probably not. But does that have or should have any bearing over how indignant the Indians feel at the red neck attitudes of the US gunners ? Absolutely not. The only question is did the US navy warned the ship and if yes, we need more details of it which are not avilable. My suspicion is they did not follow the procedure and were trigger happy.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

^^^ Exactly, these two are two different problems, the problems Dean talks about are internal affairs of India, this incident pertains to external affairs, we can't compare the two and says, I will wait till the internal problems are solved. The security and strategic interests are important and should be taken care off, if India says to the world, it doesn't care about Indian lives just because GoI has to take care of it's internal problems first, we can wash off our hands on everything, tomorrow you wont even have India. No country waits so that it's internal problems are taken care off first. Do you think US has no internal problems? so many black Americans rot in prisons for wrongful convictions, one woman gets raped every minute, so US first has to wait till this gets eradicated? it wouldn't have been super power at that rate.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Deans »

I am not suggesting that our internal & external problems should be linked, nor am I trying to justify US actions - I thought that was clear from my posts.
The point I'm trying to make is that the Media & some politicians simply use such incidents to display pseudo patriotism. There is really no serious attempt to understand what happened, why, and how it can be prevented. And that, in my view is due to the general lack of concern we display for the lives of our citizens. Simply calling the US trigger happy is not an assertive foreign policy, nor is it realistic to expect that this will never happen again.

If GoI is really concerned about preventing incidents like this, they should:
- Have close liaison between the Naval attaches of the concerned country. Within hours of the incident, the Indian naval attache
in the UAE should have been sitting with his US counterparts, to understand what happened. Similarly, our Naval experts
(we cant leave it to SMK), should liaise with the UAE, to understand where their investigation is leading. If there is stonewalling in either case, THAT is what needs to be played up by the Media. Ideally, by this time, either the Indian Naval attache should have submitted his preliminary report, or informed GoI that he is not getting cooperation.
- Properly educate our fishermen (and everyone else in similar jobs), about basic Maritime rules and also the pitfalls of working in a conflict zone (like the straits of Hormuz). If our citizens did not have adequate insurance cover (which increases manifold in the event of an unnatural death), they should not have been allowed to work.
I'm not suggesting that it was the fault of the fishing vessel, because I don't have the facts, but I do think lack of knowledge
about (for e.g.) right of way rules, can lead to tragic accidents. The Govt's job is not to announce compensation for the victim, but to ensure that his employers (through the UAE Govt/US Navy) have adequately compensated the family.
It will otherwise only be a matter of time before something similar happens in Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria.
Last edited by Deans on 19 Jul 2012 12:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Two questions need to be clearly answered. One, was the skiff's path in any way threatening the USN ship. Two, were there any warnings given to the skiff even following SOP of the American Navy. One understands the nervousness of ships in these waters, especially a US naval asset. But, there are rules even in such situations. And, both these questions can be easily answered if the path of the skiff is traced using its GPS and by reviewing an unedited audio/video footages of the USN ship. I understand that ships carry something called a VDR, equivalent of the 'black box' on an a/c, which should be secured by the US authorities and handed over for an independent probe.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/s ... csp=34news
Survey of Asian Americans shows wide diversity of faiths
Key findings:
•The greatest overall number (42%) are Christians, chiefly Protestant or Roman Catholic. Fourteen percent are Buddhist, and 10% are Hindu. Twenty-six percent are unaffiliated.

•National origin makes a difference. Korean Americans may be politically conservative because 40% are evangelical Protestants. They come from a nation that holds many of the world's largest Protestant churches. Hindu Americans may be among the nation's wealthiest and most educated because about half of them come from India, the nation favored for special U.S. visas for scientists, engineers and other skilled workers.

•All but one group was dominated by a single religion — or lack of religion.
Chinese Americans are overwhelmingly unaffiliated (52%), and Catholicism is dominant for Filipino Americans (65%). A majority of Indian Americans are Hindu (51%), and most Korean Americans are Protestant (61%). Buddhists dominate among Vietnamese Americans (43%). Japanese Americans are more diverse: 33% Protestant, 32% unaffiliated and 25% Buddhist.

•The Christians are particularly devout: Three out of four Asian-American evangelical Protestants (76%) say they attend church weekly, compared with 64% of U.S. white evangelicals. They are also distinctly more likely to say their religion is the "one true faith" (72% vs. 49%).

•Buddhists and Hindus cling to traditions in largely Christian America: 67% of Buddhists say they believe in ancestral spirits; 78% of Hindus say they maintain a shrine in their home, and 95% say they celebrate Diwali, a Hindu festival of light.

•Like most Americans who mix traditions, the Asian-American survey finds 76% of Buddhists and 73% of Hindus also celebrate Christmas. Exactly how they mark it — as a secular celebration or as the birth of Jesus, the Christian savior — was not asked in the survey.

The new research complements a study on Asian Americans' socio-economic and political lives, drawn on the same survey and released in June by the Pew Research Center.
The earlier data detailed that Asians are by far the most educated, wealthy, family-oriented group in America.
The full religion report is at www.pewform.org/asian-americans-A-Mosaic-of-Faiths.
The study from June is at http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/ ... -americans.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sushupti »

member_22872
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

I trying to justify US actions - I thought that was clear from my posts.
Dean, there can't be any justification for arrogance. I believe what our guys say, if they say USN fired at them without warning, it is so, why should Indians buy about what US dishes out? I don't care about their justification. If this happens to an American, do they really give a rats a$$ to Indian justification? why are you even batting for US? I care about Indian lives, if India guys say they were fired without warning it is so.
If GoI is really concerned about preventing incidents like this, they should:
You speak as if it is India's responsibility to stay away from trigger happy yankies and should try its best to stay away from getting fired at, sheer arrogance!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Suppiah »

SSridhar wrote:
Ohh. . .that is by Shri MKB. His agenda is to let the Italians escape.
Perhaps lots of publicity should be given to Keralite MKB openly insulting the memory of Keralese fishermen killed in Indian waters by presenting ridiculous arguments for the release of Italian marines. After all his comrades have recently been exposed as hit-list contract killers and Mafiosi. This would add a nice twist..

I liked the comment posted by someone though..(a brf-ite?)
Informed says
really…? italians killed indians in indian waters, there is a clear jurisdiction. But this one is about americans killing an indian in UAE, we don’t have a jurisdiction. India cannot investigate the killings of all indians across the globe. Are you drunk?
No sir, he is not drunk. Very much sober. And very dangerous. Unless you are Beijing.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Deans »

venug wrote:
I trying to justify US actions - I thought that was clear from my posts.
Dean, there can't be any justification for arrogance. I believe what our guys say, if they say USN fired at them without warning, it is so, why should Indians buy about what US dishes out? I don't care about their justification. If this happens to an American, do they really give a rats a$$ to Indian justification? why are you even batting for US? I care about Indian lives, if India guys say they were fired without warning it is so.
If GoI is really concerned about preventing incidents like this, they should:
You speak as if it is India's responsibility to stay away from trigger happy yankies and should try its best to stay away from getting fired at, sheer arrogance!
Venu,
I don't think we really disagree. I think my post has been misquoted, since I see that the 2 worlds preceding `I' were inaverdently deleted when your quoted my post in your reply. To reiterate, I'm NOT trying to justify US actions.

It is also not our job to stay out of harm's way. My point simply is that we need to better prepare for such situations- weather it
means a more proactive Indian military attache & diplomatic staff, or ensuring that our workers are better prepared to deal with
whatever hazards they face. Weather or not we believe what the victims say isn't really the point. What we need is for our consular staff to quickly gather all the facts (for e.g. GPS / radar tracks) to understand what went wrong and how it can be avoided. This is something that should be done irrespective of the nationality of the shooter and victim.
What I would like to see our Govt or Media tell us is:
1. Where are the UAE & USN with their investigation ?
(I would have liked to know about our investigation too, but we don't have one).
2. Are both versions consistent, if not, where are the differences and how do they differ from what we heard the Indian crew say.
3. Therefore: What went wrong, why, who screwed up and are they compensating the crew and what can be done better next time.
Last edited by Deans on 20 Jul 2012 09:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

Deans wrote:
Venu, you are right. We can't change how US views the life of an Indian, so let us change how we view the lives of our citizens, in India. The examples I am going to give are tangential, but something that bugs me a lot;

A politician in UP kills a kid, when he fires his weapon to celebrate. The media covers it for 15 mins and that's it. The CM doesn't give
a F*#%. Will we insist that the shooter face trial for murder ? The kid might get compensation, if his family pays a bribe.
So should we expect something very different, if an Indian is fired upon in some other country ?

The biggest media coverage for the past month, in Bangalore (where I now live), has been that of the French diplomat allegedly molesting his child. The case has been filed by his wife, who is also a french citizen. At the same time, we have the horrific case
of scores of kids being abused in Govt run child homes. Again, one day of coverage and no one will get punished. Why are we more indignant about a case involving 2 French citizens, than we are about hundreds of our children being routinely abused by those who are supposed to protect them.
Going by your logic, one can rape an American gori and then start lecturing about how countless Americans are murdered and raped every year by inner city thugs in America itself.

Check out the following link.Since crime is rising in American cities and American cops are unable to control it, y'all are completely justified to commit murders, Rapes and Robberies against American citizens. And no Americans should dare raise their voice. Instead as per Deans own explanation they should change their own views about the lives of American citizens in America


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/us/ra ... wanted=all
Mr. Emanuel listed safer streets among his top three priorities when he became mayor a year ago, but Chicago, the nation’s third-largest city, is now testing that promise. Homicides are up by 38 percent from a year ago, and shootings have increased as well, even as killings have held steady or dropped in New York, Los Angeles and some other cities. As of June 17, 240 people had been killed here this year, mostly in shootings, 66 more deaths than occurred in the same period in 2011.

“That’s somebody’s husband, somebody’s son, and they’re dying right on our block,” said Maya Hodari, who lives on a South Side street where two shootings have already taken place this year, one of them fatal and another as a toddler looked on. “It hurts.”

The violence has left its largest scars in some of Chicago’s most impoverished, struggling neighborhoods on the South and West Sides, places with views of the city’s gleaming downtown skyline that feel worlds apart. Wealthier, whiter parts of the city have not been entirely immune — shootings were reported in the last few days along the city’s Magnificent Mile shopping district and near the Lincoln Park Zoo — but a majority of the killings have been tied to Chicago’s increasingly complicated gang warfare, police statistics suggest, and to the gritty neighborhoods where gangs have long thrived.
ManjaM
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ManjaM »

Deans wrote: Venu,
.
.
.
.What I would like to see our Govt or Media tell us is:
1. Where are the UAE & USN with their investigation ?
(I would have liked to know about our investigation too, but we don't have one).
2. Are both versions consistent, if not, where are the differences and how do they differ from what we heard the Indian crew say.
3. Therefore: What went wrong, why, who screwed up and are they compensating the crew and what can be done better next time.
This is a good, balanced viewpoint. Thanks.
darshhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

venug wrote: Dean, there can't be any justification for arrogance. I believe what our guys say, if they say USN fired at them without warning, it is so, why should Indians buy about what US dishes out? I don't care about their justification. If this happens to an American, do they really give a rats a$$ to Indian justification? why are you even batting for US? I care about Indian lives, if India guys say they were fired without warning it is so.
Venu ji , There is no point in arguing with America Rakshaks. Brown guys like you or me do not stand a chance. On a lighter note , find an American and victimise him/her. Before pointing a finger at you , Americans should put their own house in order. Since the rate of homicides, rapes and violent robberies is so high in US cities , they shouldn't have a problem with your single indiscretion.
darshhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

Seriously, I fail to understand why the Americans are even patrolling Indian Ocean while their own country is fucckkin collapsing due to moral and character decay. Just check the following link from the "Land of the free and home of the brave".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Us9CbbAw5M
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Us9CbbAw5M[/youtube]

If this does not change your mind , then check this. 300 ******* (this is not a word that Americans in general, and African Americans in particular consider acceptable as a description of them - it is considered extremely offensive by them - this is a caution - JE Menon) rob Walmart using flash mob tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X7CRLqO-Jo
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X7CRLqO-Jo[/youtube]

I mean this shit is hillarious.

Meanwhile the state of affairs in Chicago which is one of the premier cities of US.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/1 ... 86322.html
At least eight people died and at least 46 others were wounded in shootings over a hot, bloody weekend in Chicago.

Joseph Briggs, 16, was the youngest victim of gun violence over the weekend. He was shot in the head while standing with a group of people on the porch in front of his family's home Saturday evening and died early Sunday.

His grandmother Josephine Briggs told the Chicago Sun-Times that she believed her grandson was not the intended target of the shooting which police say may have been gang-related.

"He [had] a nice personality. He always [was] smiling. Every time you see him he got a big smile on his face. He was just a happy grandson," she told the paper of the Gage Park High School junior.

Rashaun Stephany, 22, and Mario Jackson, 26, were killed in a single shooting on the 5100 block of South May Street just before 5 p.m. Friday, the Chicago Tribune reports. Three other males were injured in the same incident.
To give you a context , over 52 people were shot in Chicago over a period of less than 3 days. Mind you this is Chicago and not Detroit nor Compton.More Americans have died this year in Chicago than in Afghanistan

Seriously Americans need to value human life.
darshhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

Meanwhile educational standards of American Kids continue to fall , even as America squanders its precious resources in various ways(like giving free aid to Pakistan worth billions of dollars)

Horrific 10 Percent Literacy Rate Prompts ACLU to Sue Michigan Schools

http://news.yahoo.com/horrific-10-liter ... 00112.html
What happens when almost all the 11th graders in an entire school district aren't proficient in math or reading? According to Michelle Johnson, a concerned parent in Michigan's failing Highland Park schools, the kids "are going to be statistics. They are going to be in prison. They are not going to get the things they need in life."

Johnson makes her plea for support in the ACLU video The Right to Read: Protecting Michigan's Future, saying, "We need someone to step in now, or our kids are going to fail."

In the Highland Park school district, just outside of Detroit, only 10 percent of students from third to eighth grade are proficient in reading and math. As to be expected, the statistics get even worse as the students get older. Each year, kids in 11th grade take the Michigan Merit Exam to see if they are college-ready. In 2011, 90 percent of Highland Park students failed the reading portion, 97 percent failed the math section, and 100 percent failed the social studies and science portions.

On July 12, the ACLU of Michigan, along with eight students, stepped in. They filed a first-of-its-kind class-action lawsuit against the state of Michigan, its agencies charged with overseeing public education, and the Highland Park School District for failing to take the necessary and effective measures to ensure students are reading at grade level.

Kary Moss, the executive director of the ACLU of Michigan, told TakePart, that "the lawsuit refers to the state constitution, which says that the state shall maintain and support a system of public education. The ACLU argues that this is not a system of public education."

During their investigation, the ACLU collected writing samples from a few of the children. One of these students is Quentin, a 14-year-old boy who just finished seventh grade yet is reading at a first-grade level. His letter will "break your heart," Moss said. "In the first sentence, he spells his name incorecctly."
By the way here is the essay/letter that this Quentin Kid wrote describing his school. Trust me there is not much difference between a Paki kid and him.
My name is Quemtin and you can make the school gooder by geting people that will do the jod that is pay for get a football tame for the kinds mybe a baksball tamoe get a other jamtacher for the school get a lot of tacher.
The kid cannot even spell his name properly and I will not even talk about the rest. It would be truly comic, if it were not so sad.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Johann »

darshhan wrote:If this does not change your mind , then check this. 300 **** rob Walmart using flash mob tactics.
I beg your pardon? 300 whats?
darshhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

By the way poverty rates continue to explode in US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in ... ted_States
Poverty is a state of privation or lack of the usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.[1] According to the U.S. Census Bureau data released Tuesday September 13, 2011, the nation's poverty rate rose to 15.1% (46.2 million) in 2010,[2] up from 14.3% (approximately 43.6 million) in 2009 and to its highest level since 1993. In 2008, 13.2% (39.8 million) Americans lived in relative poverty.[3] In 2000, the poverty rate for individuals was 12.2% and for families was 9.3%
America is seriously screwed.
darshhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

duplicate post
darshhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by darshhan »

Johann wrote:
darshhan wrote:If this does not change your mind , then check this. 300 *** rob Walmart using flash mob tactics.
I beg your pardon? 300 whats?
Johann , No need to be shocked. You have seen right. It is "300 ****".

You see I am not an American citizen, don't stay in America and I am not dependent on America for my livelihood. So why the hell should I be required to conform to American standards wrt Political Correctness. By no means I am obliged to follow US paradigms. The real issue is that americans follow these standards to lessen their guilts resulting from a long history of slavery followed by Jim Crow laws which were used to suppress ****. Well I did not enslave anyone and neither did I discriminate against anyone. Hence I should not be required to shoulder this burden.

By the way Chris Rock agrees with me ( if it makes you feel any better )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4[/youtube]

These thugs fit the definition of ****. So what is the problem ?
Last edited by SSridhar on 20 Jul 2012 08:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Offensive word removed
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