Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

[SSridhar]

Pakistani Taliban splits, top commander shot dead

ISI planted story.

[Hari Seldon]

Bah, Ambar-ji, am trying to sow some FUD here...kindly don;t derail my noble project only...

[SSridhar]

The economic miracle that was Pakistan in the 60s

There is considerable consensus among relevant experts that the government was able to pursue such a generous import policy due to the availability of foreign aid which increased from 2.5% of GNP in the mid-1950s to about 7% of GDP in mid-1960s (ibid). An Asian Development Bank (ADB) study of economic conditions in Pakistan notes that “the import liberalization which took place in the first half of the 1960s would have been impossible without this large increase in aid”. Gustav Papanek, in his Pakistan’s Development: Social Goals and Private Incentives (1967), also acknowledged that “foreign aid contributed significantly to Pakistan’s growth from late 1950s; without it, the rapid increase in development in the 1960s could not have been possible”. Rashid Amjad, in his Private Industrial Investment in Pakistan 1960-70, notes that:

“…[the] economic system which operated in Pakistan in the sixties was quite different from that suggested by earlier writers. It bore little resemblance to classical nineteenth century capitalism…the system that operated in Pakistan came very close to what we can term a “foreign Aid Dependent Regime” in which the mechanics of industrial growth were in one way or the other made dependent on foreign aid inflows…once these aid flows slowed down…the system…found it difficult to sustain the earlier growth it had generated” (Amjad, 1982, p. 10)

These observations are borne out in actual experience as well for immediately following the 1965 India-Pakistan War when the foreign aid dried up considerably, the government was unable to continue its import liberalization policies and the free list was curtailed considerably. In short, once the aid stopped, so did the economy.

[Arjun]

Why is it, that despite their close ties to the US, Pakistan never developed any South Korean type companies like Samsung, Lucky Goldstar, Hyundai or Dawoo, or even anything comparable to what India has presently, the Tatas, Ambanis, Birlas etc.

There was actually one 'global brand' that Pakistanis almost developed.

In the seventies & eighties and early nineties, the biggest global 'success' story out of Pakistan was BCCI - Bank of Credit and Commerce International. It even became the 7th largest private bank in the world in terms of assets, and operated in some 80 countries around the world.

The climax is of course, easy to predict. In the early nineties, BCCI was revealed to have been built on a foundation of fraud, money-laundering and massive financial crime. There were massive coordinated raids on BCCI offices by seven of the leading global regulatory bodies - and eventually the firm was forced into liquidation.

A story that closely parallels the success chart of Pakistan in all aspects.

[shiv]

Bah, Ambar-ji, am trying to sow some FUD here...kindly don;t derail my noble project only...

This exchange is typical Indian piskology that gets played out on BRF time and time again! There is so much "deep dharma" and "satyameva jayate" in the average Indian that we are more suited to be research investigators than psy ops operators. We test all information from ourselves for truth.

But the same standard is not applied to info that comes from outside (non Indian). That is automatically accepted as true. What makes it even more funny is that Pakis and Chinese, unlike Indians, do not test their own info for truth the way we do. So if you do a net search for Qing class submarines you find that if it exists at all - it is in prototype form released for testing a couple of months ago. While Chinese boards do not provide much information, Prasun Sengupta has a detailed article on it. Worse than the chor are the Pakis who announce that Pakistan is to get 6 of these subs armed with nuclear capable cruise missiles. This information gets picked up, swallowed and believed whole (without any hesitation) and gets posted on BRF.

Like Jack Spratt and his wife - Indian on the one hand, and the Paki-Cheeni cabal complement each othe perfectly. One says "Cry!" and the other obligingly cries.

Sorry. OT

[SSridhar]

In the early nineties, BCCI was revealed to have been built on a foundation of fraud, money-laundering and massive financial crime.

Arjun, you are quite right. On top of fraud etc., BCCI was directly and inextricably linked with the covert nuclear proliferation programme of GoP as well as its terrorism.

[disha]

... Basically Pakistan hid and ignored its poverty and illiteracy behind a wall of educated English speaking elites. The poverty was there.

Note that post 1971, they lost both the tea producing and more importantly the jute producing export oriented Bangladesh. Bakistan is left with just wheat and cotton, and the only places that are fertile are punjab and parts of sindh. Further, there was never a bhoodan movement or its equivalent, resulting in todays feudal society.

Point is Bakistan lost its independence within 7 years of gaining it - from 1947 to 1954. Bakistan is not an independent country, never was and never going to be. No doubt it is the 53rd state of USA and yes, three things rule the roost in Bakistan - Allah, Army and America - not in any particular order!

[disha]

Just to put some mis-information to rest from the above post:

1. 60 Million USD a year in 1954 dollars is roughly equivalent to 500 Million USD in 2010 dollars (inflation of average 3.78 percent in US over 57 years)

2. Over 12 years, that is equivalent to 6 Billion USD. Or getting 100 planes using the Indian MMRCA contract.

3. USD 2 Billion dollars in 1954 then is equivalent to 80 Billion USD now. It is equivalent to underwriting the entire Pakistani economy of an entire year in aid money. Note that most of this aid went to the millitary (remember that bakis were ruled by the millitary for most of their existence).

So in effect, all the aid in 1954 for the next 12 years not just under wrote the baki economy, but also their *entire* defence budget.

I made a mistake above - 2 Billion USD in 1954 is equivalent to @160 Billion USD in today's dollars. That is @14 Billion USD every year in today's dollars. That is @8% GDP of bakistan in today's dollar. And this is direct, no questions asked cash. Add to it all the soft loans from ADB and other banks ...

[UBanerjee]

Just to put some mis-information to rest from the above post:

1. 60 Million USD a year in 1954 dollars is roughly equivalent to 500 Million USD in 2010 dollars (inflation of average 3.78 percent in US over 57 years)

2. Over 12 years, that is equivalent to 6 Billion USD. Or getting 100 planes using the Indian MMRCA contract.

3. USD 2 Billion dollars in 1954 then is equivalent to 80 Billion USD now. It is equivalent to underwriting the entire Pakistani economy of an entire year in aid money. Note that most of this aid went to the millitary (remember that bakis were ruled by the millitary for most of their existence).

So in effect, all the aid in 1954 for the next 12 years not just under wrote the baki economy, but also their *entire* defence budget.

I made a mistake above - 2 Billion USD in 1954 is equivalent to @160 Billion USD in today's dollars.

It looks like 2 billion in 1954 is equivalent to 16 billion, not 80 or 160 billion. Not sure where you are getting this number from, it sounded unrealistically high, so I checked.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Both give a multiplicative value of between. 8-8.4.

[shiv]

Note that post 1971, they lost both the tea producing and more importantly the jute producing export oriented Bangladesh. Bakistan is left with just wheat and cotton, and the only places that are fertile are punjab and parts of sindh. Further, there was never a bhoodan movement or its equivalent, resulting in todays feudal society.

Point is Bakistan lost its independence within 7 years of gaining it - from 1947 to 1954. Bakistan is not an independent country, never was and never going to be. No doubt it is the 53rd state of USA and yes, three things rule the roost in Bakistan - Allah, Army and America - not in any particular order!

And yet the Pakistan armed forces by 1990 (and till date) became more powerful and well armed than they were before the 1971 war - just in conventional terms - not counting the (possibly fake) Pakistani nukes.

[shiv]

The economic miracle that was Pakistan in the 60s

Ayub’s regime was essentially formalizing what Papanek describes as the “social utility of greed” to drive the country’s economic development. This is also referred to as Doctrine of Functional Inequality which, simply defined, is the idea that it is not sufficient alone that economic growth takes place within the private sector but that is OK to increase inequality within the society as a result

[Patni]

Pakistani Taliban splits, top commander shot dead

ISI planted story.

Sridharji wasn't there reports from when Col. Imam of ISI was kidnapped and killed by TTP that there is tension between Sirajuddin Haqqani and Hakimullah Mehsud? Do you think ISI is trying to protect Haqqani as always and throwing Mehsud faction under the bus? or all of this is just smoke and mirror show for US consumption?

[wig]

meanwhile the farce continues -MQM opts out of Pak coalition govt

Islamabad, June 27
In a blow to Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani's government, key partner MQM today quit his government at the centre and also made an exit from the ruling coalition in the Sindh province, citing Pakistan Peoples Party's "undemocratic and dictatorial" attitude.

"The Muttahida Qaumi Movement MQM's Rabita Committee (highest decision making body), parliamentarians and legislators came to the conclusion that it is not possible for the MQM to work with this government because of its undemocratic and dictatorial actions," senior MQM leader Farooq Sattar said. The party has 25-members in the 342 member National Assemly.

Though the move is a blow to the federal government, it is not expected to collapse as the ruling PPP recently forged an alliance with the PML-Q to bolster the ruling coalition's numbers in Parliament.

Sattar announced his party's decision at a news conference in the southern port city of Karachi, saying that the move was made after consultations with the party's workers and lawmakers.

The PPP-led government had a "dictatorial attitude" and used "force and pressure" against both its opponents and allies, he alleged.

MQM lawmakers in the national and provincial assemblies will sit on opposition benches, he said.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110628/world.htm#2

[Varoon Shekhar]

Shiv:
"Basically Pakistan hid and ignored its poverty and illiteracy behind a wall of educated English speaking elites. The poverty was there. The illiteracy was there. If you went down on the ground and measured the "levels" both were similar to India's figures. But the negative attention was received by India"

Yes, it is baffling that the international press singles out India for poverty. The only time poverty in Pakistan is really mentioned is again when there is some kind of military spending issue with India. Then you hear things like "both poor countries spending lots on arms". What about poverty and illiteracy in Pakistan per se ? It must be a mixture of heavy geo-political bias i.e Pakistan squarely in the US sphere, with India's own openness and proneness to self-criticism on the poverty issue.

[shiv]

Yes, it is baffling that the international press singles out India for poverty. The only time poverty in Pakistan is really mentioned is again when there is some kind of military spending issue with India. Then you hear things like "both poor countries spending lots on arms". What about poverty and illiteracy in Pakistan per se ? It must be a mixture of heavy geo-political bias i.e Pakistan squarely in the US sphere, with India's own openness and proneness to self-criticism on the poverty issue.

I have tried to find an explanation for this that cannot be dismissed as subcontinental paranoia or a conspiracy theory.

The reasons that have come up are that India has actually been open and honest about these things simply in order to set them right. You cannot address major socio-economic issues without measuring them (census) and publishing them so they are easily accessible to the agencies that need the data (openness). If you have neither a census nor openness you basically have no data.

The issue is similar to the adverse comments we hear about IAF crashes. India is open about aircraft accidents. If you hide them then third parties who read about Indian crashes but never read about crashes from say, China, end up thinking that only the IAF crashes.

In the case of Pakistan, not only has the dirty truth been hidden, the leaders of Pakistan have managed to develop deep and personal relationships with western leaders and media people by selective and generous hospitality. For example the image of the Pakistan air force was assiduously build up by paying John Fricker to write a book about it (the contents of that book have been criticised in the memoirs of senior Pakistani pilots such as Sajad Haider). John Fricker was given unprecedented access and was flown around in Paki air force aircraft in a country that did not have a cheeky "CAG" to question expenditure of this sort. The benefit of not being open feeds itself in a positive cycle. The list of people who spoke well of Pakistan despite deep internal problems because of deep personal relationships is long and new names keep appearing.

Well known names that come to mind are John Fricker, Brian Cloughley, Chuck Yeager, possibly Nixon and Kissinger, Steven Cohen, and Christine Fair. But there are hundreds of other lesser known people

[abhishek_sharma]

Well known names that come to mind are John Fricker, Brian Cloughley, Chuck Yeager, possibly Nixon and Kissinger, Steven Cohen, and Christine Fair. But there are hundreds of other lesser known people

That guy is more Paki than most Pakis.

[chetak]

Shiv:

Yes, it is baffling that the international press singles out India for poverty. The only time poverty in Pakistan is really mentioned is again when there is some kind of military spending issue with India. Then you hear things like "both poor countries spending lots on arms". What about poverty and illiteracy in Pakistan per se ? It must be a mixture of heavy geo-political bias i.e Pakistan squarely in the US sphere, with India's own openness and proneness to self-criticism on the poverty issue.

The international press benefits by pushing the NGO market which thrives on "Indian Poverty" which is a very thin veneer for evangelists and the bible thumpers who use the excuse to raise funds to assault the Indian civilization.

This has been a well oiled machinery running smoothly since well before independence.

It certainly should not baffle anyone in the twenty first century.

Karnataka, Tamilnadu and Andhra are prime examples of the tender loving care bestowed upon the citizenry by these people.

Where as in muslim countries, christian evangelists are hunted for sport.

[ajit_tr]

Pakistani scientists succeed in mapping genome

Pakistani scientists have mapped genome of the first Pakistani, while with this historical achievement, Pakistan joins the ranks of the few countries - the US, UK, China, Japan and India - which have successfully sequenced the human genome.

Dr Panjwani Centre for Molecular Medicine & Drug Research (PCMD), University of Karachi (KU) and Beijing Genomics Institute, China, have jointly mapped genome of the first Pakistani, living in Karachi.

Pakistan has become the first country in the Muslim World as well that has mapped genome of a first Muslim man.

Code: Select all

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=54776&Cat=4&dt=6/28/2011

[disha]

It looks like 2 billion in 1954 is equivalent to 16 billion, not 80 or 160 billion. Not sure where you are getting this number from, it sounded unrealistically high, so I checked.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Both give a multiplicative value of between. 8-8.4.

Duh, I made mistake of putting the zero to the wrong place. Had calculated to 80x instead of 8x!

Anyway, they got 0.7% GDP per year in cold cash (apart from aid for millitary hardware and other soft loans)

[Ambar]

So they managed to map the genome of Mohammed the prophet ? Now, since even a pictorial representation of Mohammed is blasphemous, is it fair to assume entire Paki nation is wajib-ul-cutlet ?

[disha]

bakistani scientists succeed in mapping genome

Pakistan has become the first country in the Muslim World as well that has mapped genome of a first Muslim man.

Err -- how does the genome know that you are baki or not? Or are you trying to say that the baki muslim man can be genetically identified? Now what is the advantage, when the entire genome of a human can be downloaded now? The significance still fails me - care to explain the significance of this earth shattering news?

[UBanerjee]

Yes, it is baffling that the international press singles out India for poverty. The only time poverty in Pakistan is really mentioned is again when there is some kind of military spending issue with India. Then you hear things like "both poor countries spending lots on arms". What about poverty and illiteracy in Pakistan per se ? It must be a mixture of heavy geo-political bias i.e Pakistan squarely in the US sphere, with India's own openness and proneness to self-criticism on the poverty issue.

I have tried to find an explanation for this that cannot be dismissed as subcontinental paranoia or a conspiracy theory.

The reasons that have come up are that India has actually been open and honest about these things simply in order to set them right. You cannot address major socio-economic issues without measuring them (census) and publishing them so they are easily accessible to the agencies that need the data (openness). If you have neither a census nor openness you basically have no data.

There is another reason related to that openness; people visit India and see for themselves, as poverty in India can be very visible at the main tourist areas also. However no one visits Pakistan to see for themselves (there is nothing to see). And in China, the poor people are removed from goras sight by hook or by crook to present that cleaner image. (loss of face)

But, India is not alone in this regard presently, Bangladesh is always mentioned as crushingly poor as well. Until 1980s China was often talked about in terms of poverty. Nowadays China is usually mentioned coupled with industrial poisons and pollutions despite its PR management. The image has changed.

Before South Korea became prosperous it too was viewed in this light because of the searing images that came out from the Korean War and aftermath.

[Neela]

Shiv:
"Basically Pakistan hid and ignored its poverty and illiteracy behind a wall of educated English speaking elites. The poverty was there. The illiteracy was there. If you went down on the ground and measured the "levels" both were similar to India's figures. But the negative attention was received by India"

Yes, it is baffling that the international press singles out India for poverty. The only time poverty in Pakistan is really mentioned is again when there is some kind of military spending issue with India. Then you hear things like "both poor countries spending lots on arms". What about poverty and illiteracy in Pakistan per se ? It must be a mixture of heavy geo-political bias i.e Pakistan squarely in the US sphere, with India's own openness and proneness to self-criticism on the poverty issue.

Disclaimer: This is OT. But I feel a hint is due.
VS,
I am sure you have read this earlier but just highlighting. You, as everyone else, know what to do.

1. While the Pak economy was hardly an exemplar in economic policy making, its outperformance over India till the late '80s, especially between the mid '60s and mid '80s, is undeniable...

2. ..Somewhat perversely, the secession of Bangladesh, which was effectively a basket case then, actually provided a beneficial "bump" to the macro numbers of Pak...

3. The fact was not just evident in the macro numbers, chroniclers of the Indo-Pak domain often captured this in their narratives - how the average Pakistani looked more prosperous than the average Indian, how poverty was so much more in-your-face in India and so on..

4. ..While jute from BD was a big source of forex, BD also screwed up all macro indicators of Pak - GDP growth, population growth, HDI the works -

After reading all this, I lost the will to live.

Guess the OP's version of verbal er*t*ca involves words like "policy making" and "macro indicators" ....
Disclaimer: Admins, the OP had this coming on to him. ( hehe pun intended ) .

[SSridhar]

quote="Patni"Pakistani Taliban splits, top commander shot dead
ISI planted story.

Sridharji wasn't there reports from when Col. Imam of ISI was kidnapped and killed by TTP that there is tension between Sirajuddin Haqqani and Hakimullah Mehsud? Do you think ISI is trying to protect Haqqani as always and throwing Mehsud faction under the bus? or all of this is just smoke and mirror show for US consumption?

Patni, the 'Haqqani' mentioned in the above report is not to be confused with Jalaluddin/Sirajuddin Haqqani of the Haqqani Shura. The Haqqanis are not strictly 'Taliban' though they are on their side. Hakimullah Mehsud, like his predecessors Baitullah Mehsud and Nek Mohammed before him, are 'bad Taliban'. Killing of a commander here or there is no big deal among these warring groups, though united otherwise in a common cause. However, the caption, 'Pakistani Taliban splits', is too dramatic and wildly off the mark.

[abhishek_sharma]

Lastly, one doesn't need to patronize India by saying 'India became the Pakistan the West wanted to create'. That is insulting to India and the one-sixth of humanity it encompasses within itself. We have miles, leagues to go, but we are on this trajectory by dint of our own enterprise.

This article explains the reasons behind such comments.

[SSridhar]

After reading all this, I lost the will to live.

Neela, . But, your decision is too drastic. If you reply, then I woud know that you have reversed the decision !

[milindc]

It looks like 2 billion in 1954 is equivalent to 16 billion, not 80 or 160 billion. Not sure where you are getting this number from, it sounded unrealistically high, so I checked.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Both give a multiplicative value of between. 8-8.4.

Duh, I made mistake of putting the zero to the wrong place. Had calculated to 80x instead of 8x!

Anyway, they got 0.7% GDP per year in cold cash (apart from aid for millitary hardware and other soft loans)

Pakistan GDP in 1964 was approximately $5B, with $3.2B aid over 12 years starting 1954 ($2.5B economic and $700m military), the actual cash/aid received per year is about 5% of the GDP , which is mind numbing.

[RajeshA]

what is kufr china doing in mapping purelander's genes?

There is a big demand for pork in China. But they want to genetically modify it first - afraid the disease of Pakistaniyat could otherwise spread to the Hans!

Everybody is looking for a cure to Pakistaniyat - the Chinese in their own way. With the genome, now the Chinese can isolate Pakistani specific genetic markers and create a ebola virus that attacks only Pakistanis. The idea is to take over Pakjab as well after the Chinese are finished with Gilgit-Baltistan!

Can there be any other explanation? No!

The Pakis are so stupid, they don't know what awaits them!

[shiv]

Well known names that come to mind are John Fricker, Brian Cloughley, Chuck Yeager, possibly Nixon and Kissinger, Steven Cohen, and Christine Fair. But there are hundreds of other lesser known people

That guy is more Paki than most Pakis.

I forgot Eric Margolis

[SSridhar]

Pakistan GDP in 1964 was approximately $5B, with $3.2B aid over 12 years starting 1954 ($2.5B economic and $700m military), the actual cash/aid received per year is about 5% of the GDP , which is mind numbing.

milindc, the figures I had posted in the previous page were the GNI (not the GDP). The GNI includes the foreign aid inflows too. The real size of the Pakistani economy therefore is dismal.

[Deans]

Delhi test for Pak’s young lady minister
http://telegraphindia.com/1110627/jsp/f ... 165283.jsp

The ignorance of the media bursts through. This broad will be the mouthpiece of the army with no independent thought.

Anticipating that Sherry will get a Kanadian visa, Groper's got himself a new gropee ! Shrewd

[Ramu]

Pakistan's Nuclear Bomb

'We May Be Naive, But We Are Not Idiots'
By Susanne Koelbl

[chetak]

Anticipating that Sherry will get a Kanadian visa, Groper's got himself a new gropee ! Shrewd

How do you know?

Zardari may have a hand in it.

He has been without horizontal exercise for some time now.

[SSridhar]

Pakistan's Nuclear Bomb

'We May Be Naive, But We Are Not Idiots' - Interview with AQ Khan

From the above,

The Kargil skirmishes were localized and the issue of the use of nuclear weapons never arose.

[wig]

this is the latest move for getting more aid into the right pockets, the alternative being -Pakistan to build more N-plants: Gilani

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's nuclear capability was purely for peaceful purposes, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has said while declaring that the country would build more power plants to meet its growing energy needs.

Addressing a seminar, Gilani said Pakistan would continue to comply with the requirements of International Atomic Energy Agency's nuclear safeguard agreements.

"Building and operating nuclear power plants is vital to country's interests because of its severe energy deficiency," Gilani was quoted as saying by Associated Press of Pakistan Tuesday.

Gilani said the Atomic Energy Commission was poised to achieve the 8,800 MW nuclear power production by 2030 and he hoped the commission would look beyond 2030 to build more nuclear power plants.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 023843.cms

[krishnan]

Someone might have booked his date with 72 virgins

16:22 PM Defence minister says Pak can't match India:

OK, here's something that we in India have always known, but it takes courage for a Pakistani to say it, especially a politician.

Pakistan cannot afford to match the induction of modern weaponry by India, which possibly has a greater capacity to sustain a war, Pakistani Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar has said.

"If we only try to match them (India) militarily and buy the sort of armament which they have, we will probably not be able to afford it," Mukhtar said.

Explaining his contention, he noted that India's economy is "six to seven times bigger than" Pakistan's and its trade volumes were "five to six times greater".

"The capacity of India and Pakistan to fight was for 20 to 22 days. Now India has inducted a lot of armaments, may be they can last for 45 days, we will not be able to do so," Mukhtar said in an interview to BBC Urdu.

And now, let's sit back and await the fallout back in Pakistan....

rediff live

[Hiten]

caption says pakistan police flogging the person. seems to be taking place inside a packed stadium. Google turns up zilch - uniform similar to theirs though ??

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-q7FO7Fgu5cY/TghXm ... 25255D.jpg

[Lalmohan]

this pic has been up before, its frontierlands full of mardish pasthuns (and soon to be peachy bottoms)

[Kashi]

Pakistan has become the first country in the Muslim World as well that has mapped genome of a first Muslim man.

Good now go sequence the first "Muslim" transcriptome, proteome, metabolome while the world moves on to bigger and better things like Next-generation sequencing and Genome-wide association studies.

[A_Gupta]

caption says pakistan police flogging the person. seems to be taking place inside a packed stadium. Google turns up zilch - uniform similar to theirs though ??

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-q7FO7Fgu5cY/TghXm ... 25255D.jpg

http://undhimmi.com/2011/06/09/visit-pa ... s-a-blast/