Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Feb 2014 21:12

FYI, TV says BJP has only suggested 3 changes and they are willing to vote for the creation of the new state even if the 3 amendments are not accepted.

See I am a bit tentative but I would not normally dismiss out of hand the possibility of gaining seats merely because nothing came BJP's way all these years. As somebody pointed out, yes, it would be entirely uncharacteristic of BJP to float a B-Team as fast as Congress can. And this makes for some good rationale in not counting the SA seats straightaway. Even for people like me who are not cued in at an appropriate level into the Telangana-SA question it has been quite clear that KCR had stolen the show a long long time back (2009 just after YSR death), much before NaMo came onto the national scene.

The take away for me is that KCR did the exact same thing that AK420 has done. Shout on 'issues' that BJP could not have opposed and infact at varying points supported but with inadequate attention. 'Prove' that BJP was in cahoots with congress because it was giving inadequate attention to the 'issue'. The strategy does present some cogent ideas and BJP should learn this in this year of campaign - keeping the opposition voter divided is as important as getting own voters into the booth.

The point being - at no point since 2009 did BJP look like having the initiative and what importance an initiative carries has been show very well by both KCR and AK420. Personally I expect NaMo also to fail at confronting using these battlefield tactics (merely gut feel) but yes I do see how difficult it is to hope to take 25 seats or even a few if you do not command the initiative. BJP has forever remained a follower on the Telangana front.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Feb 2014 21:20

And just to make sure it is not mis-understood. BJP should have looked out for its own interests. Its not like the division or non-division would have made a lot of difference. State creation has a lot of drama but as the 3 state creations that NDA govt. managed show, the expected results are usually not there.

I am not advocating or opposing any stance. Don't have enough understanding of the matter to do that. Things could have been worked out better.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 19 Feb 2014 21:22

disha wrote:50,000 onlee
I counted 5 and my eyes hurt. Hence only 5 attended.

Where is this?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Feb 2014 21:27

15,000 saints to campaign for Modi: Ashok Singhal

Ahmedabad: Senior Vishwa Hindu Parishad leader Ashok Singhal today reiterated his support to Narendra Modi as the Prime Minister, saying he is the strongest candidate for the top job.

Singhal said 15,000 saints will participate in a campaign to marshal public support for Modi throughout the country during the general election.

"At present Modi is the only leader who can combat terrorism. Only he can protect the country. We have had a discussion in Maagh Mela gathering on February 1 and 2 at Prayagraj of Allahabad, and over 15,000 Hindu saints have unanimously decided to support Modi as a PM in the national interest," said Singhal.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 19 Feb 2014 21:30

johneeG wrote:They would have and thats precisely why its supreme foolishness from lotus that it let go off the opportunity to build itself in a completely new area without breaking a sweat if it had the guts to do that. It squandered that opportunity. Now, lotus and its supporters will turn around and blame the people for not voting in the lotus. Basically, they follow wrong strategy, have a weak/inept/compromised leadership, betray the core agendas, squander opportunities and then turn around and blame the people.

United AP stance for the Coastal and Seema regions, while a Hindhuthva stance for T was a winning combination for the lotus. And it could have actually circumvented the existing leadership and perhaps created new leadership in the region.

You are not thinking straight but getting emotive about the AP division. How could a two faced campaign by BJP would have favoured it ??? Wouldn't the people of Telengana and Seemaandhra pointed out the contradictory stance of BJP if they would have done what you are saying ??? It would have surely backfired.

The thing is that no miracle would have happened overnight that AP would have delivered 25 LS seats to BJP unless and until BJP doesn't do the ground work properly over the years it stands no chance to get 25 LS seats from AP. The only reason for some people talking about these non existent "wins" is because they aren't happy with the division and finding faults with BJP so as to hide their own shame of voting congress to power which is squarely responsible for this mess and like the rest of the country it will fall on the shoulders of BJP to clean it up.

BJP has done state divisions before and no

occurred then, had it been in power the same would have happened now as well. You reap what you sow.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 19 Feb 2014 21:31

Supratik wrote:
disha wrote:50,000 onlee
I counted 5 and my eyes hurt. Hence only 5 attended.

Where is this?

Mangalore, KA

http://www.india272.com/2014/02/18/nare ... mangalore/

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 19 Feb 2014 21:45

johneeG wrote: X-post from internal security thread:
Two developments on the same day point to the movements:
a) +1 to Thamil nationalism.
b) -1 to Thelugu nationalism.

Link to the post on this topic

*self delete tangential post to repost in off topic thread*

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 19 Feb 2014 21:51

Sagar G wrote: You are not thinking straight but getting emotive about the AP division. How could a two faced campaign by BJP would have favoured it ??? Wouldn't the people of Telengana and Seemaandhra pointed out the contradictory stance of BJP if they would have done what you are saying ??? It would have surely backfired.

The thing is that no miracle would have happened overnight that AP would have delivered 25 LS seats to BJP unless and until BJP doesn't do the ground work properly over the years it stands no chance to get 25 LS seats from AP. The only reason for some people talking about these non existent "wins" is because they aren't happy with the division and finding faults with BJP so as to hide their own shame of voting congress to power which is squarely responsible for this mess and like the rest of the country it will fall on the shoulders of BJP to clean it up.

BJP has done state divisions before and no occurred then, had it been in power the same would have happened now as well. You reap what you sow.

Even I don't get it. There are no BJP cadre to do the ground work or any leaders to speak off in SA to take advantage of anything. So how are 25 seats handed on platter to BJP ? I don't think TDP will sweep all the seats or Jagan's support is not ssured to BJP. And now the blame is being shifted on to the BJP. Even now I think Congress won't be swept out of SA. They'll win at least some seats , even though they are principle party responsible for the division.
In Telangana, they at least have cadre and few leaders and I think they'll become principal opposition in few years even if TRS merges with Congress.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Feb 2014 22:31

Narayana Rao wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/report/why-b ... 140219.htm

We know the true colors of Sushma now.

If this is true then she really needs to be shown the door. But I suspect the rediff articles. My take is it will be passed even in RS with no much stoppage. Let us see if it will be any otherway. They can't afford to get it back to LS again. But if they do all the folks who are critical of BJP has to eat crow.

Telangana state formation could be avoided if and only if there was never a grand declaration by Sonia and Chidu in 2009 after YSR's death. Everything after that was drama and waiting for a time so that their government in AP or even center is not lost in the mid term. All these folks such as Lagdapati, KKR, Rayapati, Kavuri and scores of INC folks are doing dramas as orchestrated. They clinged on until the end while things are being done per plan.

Criticizing BJP is like "Prusta thaadanath dantha banghaha" (meaning I slapped you on the back but your tooth fell down). This is completely unrelated. In Telugu it is said very crudely as "muddi meeda kodithe moothi pallu ralayee"

Folks need to calm down. BJP even if it tried to put a lot of financial stuff it will still get passed. The financial stuff is only to soothe SA commoners. Even now when Modi becomes PM or as a campaign in SA if it goes with TDP, they can still promise to do the required justice. They can add to manifesto.

The hurt feeling is because of a hope that you stop this now so that you can buy another term to keep stopping it.This ain't going to happen for ever. The seperate T movement had reached a stage where it is not the same as 1960s one. At that time there are only few shakers and movers but this time it was common T person who are sold on the theory that they will be better off if they have a state of their own.

Congress had all the time to do the division nicely and peacefully but it chose to do most dirtily and showing a middle finger to SA folks.

If you want really blame the persons who are real real reason for this split, then just blame only the congress folks of SA. No one else is the reason. TDP is also a victim only.

Whatever BJP do, it will still look like a fool. It is better to build from here. The Telugus havedefeated themselves a vision that their forefathers had when they really wanted to revive a very glorious cultural entity of past big Telugu kingoms that were indic and back bone of India of the past. Introspection leads to the blame clearly on the SA side. When you build on a such a vision, you cannot bring in cronyism and dirty parts of casteism as basis for polity. It is always expected to show leadership from SA because they are better off than Telangana. They did not show in the last decade and half. Once you weaken your fabric, you lose because a lot more will put their hands to exploit the weaknesses. Sonia maam has exploited Telugus and live with that fact. Instead of showing off anger to BJP or something else the best path is to build new bridges. The pride is lost and hurt but could be rebuilt in a different way. Telugus are more equiped now than they were in 1940s or 1960s.

Don't fall for anger on BRF or Twitter handles. SA commoner is not so angry with BJP. As per IBTL survey, 81% blame INC and only 8% blame BJP for the bifurcation. Also, TDP will still win 15 out of 25. This great Jagan ain't going any big. As emotions simmer in things will be way different.

Modi and CBN has a lot of work to do and use the anger against INC as elections come closure. Even on Telangana side, the story is not going to be a grand sweep of TRS+INC. The victory celebrations are only for few day. Life goes normal and then it will be again seat by seat. TRS merger with congress means there is a potential split by KCR's nephiew and that could be into BJP. Modi will give a path to CBN so that the alliance will happen. Otherwise T-TDP will just merge into BJP. That will happen over a period anyway. The bad part is Velama+Muslim combo will be built in the short term and that will lead Telangana to a mullah centric vote bank politics which was avoided all the time.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 19 Feb 2014 22:40

^^^^

Excellent post Muppalla Garu.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 19 Feb 2014 22:56

Thanks Muppalla!
I think the best thing to happen to SA now will be NaMo at the center and CBN at the state-level to set the foundation for the new state/capital.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 19 Feb 2014 23:16

But what BJP does tomorrow in RS is also having a baring on the future actions of NM. having proposed some amendments BJP can not now give way under mafia presure and show itself someone with no resolve to take on mafia just like Sushma did in LS which showed BJP in a very poor light after making statements like doing justice to non telangana areas and all that. Earlier she was said to have received serious dressing down from AJ before LKA for her one sided stand on this issue and clearly she has not learned anything from that. Now Venkayya and AJ in RS has to save some face.

By the way this is not a money bill. It only has financial implication that is all and therefore required to be presented in LS first. Art 3 says parliament which means both houses. Any amendments to LS version means the bill has to go to LS again which mafia never wants.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 19 Feb 2014 23:17

My friends say it is all Jagan wave in Andhra

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 19 Feb 2014 23:36

Anyone following the politics in Ukraine? What if Kejri tries to pull off such a stunt against a newly anointed PM NaMo? Its very well possible with the kind of financial backers he has.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 19 Feb 2014 23:52

SandeepA wrote:Anyone following the politics in Ukraine? What if Kejri tries to pull off such a stunt against a newly anointed PM NaMo? Its very well possible with the kind of financial backers he has.

Well, lets think about that IFFF Namo becomes the PM. 17 April 1999 is still fresh in my mind. Just 1 damn vote cost them the lok sabha and then had to go for election again. BJP is close yet so far. Looking at their allies (even if you add all the potential ones), they need in excess of 190 seats to have a decent shot (even in that case, they would need Jaya as TDP is no where close to repeating its 1999 performance). In the 1990's 180 would be ok, now BJP needs a minimum of 190-195 (no more JDU, even if BJP gets 25 seats in Bihar, it is still 10 seats less than what a BJP+JDU could have got). SAD and SS are also not expected to do very well (i mean they will do OK, but not sweep)

Do you think BJP can get 195 seats, I have big doubts. 170, I can see with reasonable degree of confidence, every seat beyond that seems climbing a hairpin bend with a 1 wheel cycle.

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Feb 2014 23:58

^^ I see 210-220. UP/Bihar/Mah are big surprises.

The one person who brought down the govt in 1999 was Girdhar Gomang. At that stage they thought that CONgIs will have a fresh start to elections and may even return back.

2014 is different, after a brutal LS elections., it will be interesting to see how the MPs will go back to face their voters again. As of today, the bureaucracy has deserted the CONgIs already. Generally they have a keener political sense than half of the so-called psephologists out there.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 20 Feb 2014 00:35

muraliravi wrote:
SandeepA wrote:Anyone following the politics in Ukraine? What if Kejri tries to pull off such a stunt against a newly anointed PM NaMo? Its very well possible with the kind of financial backers he has.
Well, lets think about that IFFF Namo becomes the PM. 17 April 1999 is still fresh in my mind. Just 1 damn vote cost them the lok sabha and then had to go for election again. BJP is close yet so far. Looking at their allies (even if you add all the potential ones), they need in excess of 190 seats to have a decent shot (even in that case, they would need Jaya as TDP is no where close to repeating its 1999 performance). In the 1990's 180 would be ok, now BJP needs a minimum of 190-195 (no more JDU, even if BJP gets 25 seats in Bihar, it is still 10 seats less than what a BJP+JDU could have got). SAD and SS are also not expected to do very well (i mean they will do OK, but not sweep)

Do you think BJP can get 195 seats, I have big doubts. 170, I can see with reasonable degree of confidence, every seat beyond that seems climbing a hairpin bend with a 1 wheel cycle.

Jayalalitha has all the chance to become next PM. NaMo/BJP is no good in the South. TDP is now against alliance with BJP as if it campaigns well can get 20 seats in Seemandhra. If Jaya sweeps Tamilnadu, she is most likely to become PM. Telugus like her a lot anyway.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 20 Feb 2014 00:52

saravana wrote:johneeG
, how about the other way around? When did the Hindus as a group protect the BJP? You just checked that BJP was in power only in 5 states. Are those only the Hindu States? Apart from Karnataka did any state in south brought BJP to power? When the time comes to pick sides the Hindus vote on their sub regionalism. And BJP gets blamed for that too. Who really started this language based statehoods? Was BJP cause of that too?
We have pages and pages analysing Indicness and whatnot and when the first sign of BJP not behaving as per what some subregionalists expect people turn their back on them.
I do understand it is an issue close to people's hearts. But wrapping around in BJP subregionalism is not fair.
EDIT: apologise for not typing the username right

That's not the way to look at it. A leader sets the direction and leads the way.. followers don't support a leader first. The leader leads, if people like it, they will follow. So the problem is with BJP not sticking to its guns rather than hindus not supporting BJP. But I do agree that hindus in general are not unified, they would rather fight amongst themselves than fight a common enemy BEFORE fighting amongst themselves.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 20 Feb 2014 01:13

ShyamSP wrote:
Jayalalitha has all the chance to become next PM. NaMo/BJP is no good in the South. TDP is now against alliance with BJP as if it campaigns well can get 20 seats in Seemandhra. If Jaya sweeps Tamilnadu, she is most likely to become PM. Telugus like her a lot anyway.

Jayalalitha sweeping in TN is a big if. Before every LS election, there is always this talk of her sweeping. Just go to eci website or indiavotes and see ADMK's pathetic performance in every election. They always alternate in State polls, but draw a blank or mediocre performance in LS. That being said, even if she sweeps, the only way she can be PM is if BJP hits less than 195. If they cross 195, she cant stop Modi from being PM.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 20 Feb 2014 01:22

disha wrote:^^ I see 210-220. UP/Bihar/Mah are big surprises.

The one person who brought down the govt in 1999 was Girdhar Gomang. At that stage they thought that CONgIs will have a fresh start to elections and may even return back.

2014 is different, after a brutal LS elections., it will be interesting to see how the MPs will go back to face their voters again. As of today, the bureaucracy has deserted the CONgIs already. Generally they have a keener political sense than half of the so-called psephologists out there.

Well, maybe its just me (or the pessimist/realist in me). MH maybe they can sweep (IF and ONLY IF MNS does not contest), else they may stop at 32 (NDA tally) in MH. Bihar, the BJP cadre seems very rejuvenated, there is still a lot of latent vote share they can pluck from JDU and some from RJD (they already have 25-30% of the yadav vote, going by field reports). So if all that bears fruit, they may do well in Bihar and move up their tally by 5 seats from the current estimate of 20 seats.

Uttar Pradesh, the lesser said the better. This is one state, where i just dont want to trust any report (i cant put a finger and say why, even though i still follow survey reports, analyze them and even post them here). All i can say is that of the 10 sitting MP's from BJP in UP, 4 will lose (Ramshankar Katheriya, Rajnath Singh, Lalji Tandon, MM Joshi). Lalji Tandon may not be given ticket again, but RNS will stand from Lucknow and despite many people thinking otherwise, i think he will lose and whoever stands on BJP ticket from his current constituency (Ghaziabad) will lose, because of RNS not doing anything these 5 years. Varun Gandhi thinks that he can fool people by running away from pilibhit and contest in sultanpur. I doubt if the strategy will work, he may scrape through with razor thin margin.

So if this is state of sitting MP's, it does not lend much confidence. I am sure Amit Shah and Kalyan singh are doing their best, but I dont expect more than 30 seats in UP.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 20 Feb 2014 01:24

AAPtards going full throttle against NaMo on SM.

http://defencelover.in/2014/02/19/reaso ... ting-modi/

This link has been shared heavily.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 20 Feb 2014 01:24

muraliravi wrote:Jayalalitha sweeping in TN is a big if. Before every LS election, there is always this talk of her sweeping. Just go to eci website or indiavotes and see ADMK's pathetic performance in every election. They always alternate in State polls, but draw a blank or mediocre performance in LS. That being said, even if she sweeps, the only way she can be PM is if BJP hits less than 195. If they cross 195, she cant stop Modi from being PM.

I agree. Too many wild speculations of useless people (Motallo, Salman, Mamata, Mayawati etc) going to become PM.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 20 Feb 2014 01:25

despite what her sycophants say (which is pretty much the entire party lol) - she probably won't want to leave TN where she runs everything by virtue of her majority, to run a compromise PM running at the mercy of coalition necessities. yes, she did want that in 1999 and that's 15 years ago.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 20 Feb 2014 01:27

My Q referencing Ukraine was obviously hypothetical. Lets not run off on a tangent here.
Thiis is then 2nd time Yanukvych is facing west backed protests, Putin has faced them too as have several other East european strongmen. What if its repeated here ?

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 20 Feb 2014 02:24

Chandragupta wrote:AAPtards going full throttle against NaMo on SM.

http://defencelover.in/2014/02/19/reaso ... ting-modi/

This link has been shared heavily.

From the article, one can very easily see that the guy was a congress voter in the past and lies through his teeth that his family has voted for BJP. Trust me, anyone (ANYONE) who ever pulls up modi's riot record or says that he is communal blah blah blah is not/never was a BJP voter. These dumbos know that they cant sell themselves anymore as congressis, so they have camouflaged as AAPtards. Mark my words, not one modi voter will go to the other side reading the above article. 1000's if not millions of TV hours have been spent over the last 5-10 years bashing Modi on every aspect the author of that article has detailed (riots, corruption, lokayuta, fake marketing, malnutrition, development indices). Name any one channel that has not beaten each of these topics about Modi to death.

Namo is what he is despite all this. When we all say, BJP needs mass leaders to attract votes. What is one of the main qualities of a mass leader?? A mass leader knows his audience and he knows their pulse. Namo knows his voters and he knows that people who get swayed by this kind of propaganda were never/never will be his voters.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Feb 2014 02:32

Chandragupta wrote:AAPtards going full throttle against NaMo on SM.

http://defencelover.in/2014/02/19/reaso ... ting-modi/

This link has been shared heavily.

The problem is comments are moderated, so no chance of anybody providing a counter to their arguments.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 20 Feb 2014 03:00

SandeepA wrote:My Q referencing Ukraine was obviously hypothetical. Lets not run off on a tangent here.
Thiis is then 2nd time Yanukvych is facing west backed protests, Putin has faced them too as have several other East european strongmen. What if its repeated here ?

This is nothing new. I posed the same using Mosbi/1980's Algeria stuff. In keiv it is similar but with a different version. Finally on some day Ukraine either has to reconcile and be with Russia or split. There are two sections one close to Russia and another very anti-Russian.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 20 Feb 2014 05:52

KaranM:

I would like to believe you on the story that Modi is the best administrator, and that he has done wonders. I don't believe in anecdotal evidence, but empirical evidence. I also try and go to original sources as much as possible since I have learned over time not to trust media reports. Let me tell you what I found.

I looked at the 2011 Human Development Report, that includes a lot of statistics. Here a link to the report.
http://www.iamrindia.gov.in/ihdr_book.pdf

The report is published by the Planning Commission, but the data themselves are collected through the usual means. Census where applicable, National Sample Surveys etc. (the list is in the report).

I focused on Table 2A.5, which is on page 257. This table lists the state wise Human Development Index numbers for the years ending 2000 and 2008 respectively, along with those for these two years for the three components of the HDI - the health index, income index and education index. I keyed in the numbers on my own in an Excel spreadsheet (it was not in a form on the pdf to be able to cut and paste) and did my own analysis. Essentially, I looked at three pieces of analysis. I looked at what Gujarat's rank was on the HDI and each of its components for the two years and how the rank changed. I also computed the % change in the HDI numbers across the states and looked at both the absolute % change, and the rank of Gujarat in the % change as a measure of relative performance. All the comparisons were across the 19 non-special category states (the special category states are essentially Himachal, J&K, Uttarakhand and the north eastern states other than Assam). The analysis was quite revealing.

1. Overall HDI
Gujarat's overall HDI went up from 0.466 to 0.527 between 2000 and 2008. It was ranked 8th in India on this measure in 2000, and remained at 8th in 2008. However in terms of % change in HDI, Gujarat ranked 14th out of 19 states. The only states that were behind Gujarat in HDI improvement during this period were Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana, Goa and Delhi in that order. Perhaps you want to look at absolute change in HDI and not the % change. An even worse picture, with Gujarat ranking 15th out of 19 states. The only states that were worse were Haryana, Rajasthan, Goa and Delhi in that order. Gujarat's HDI changed by 13.1% during this period vs. an all India average of 20.7%.

2. Health Index
The performance in the Health Index was better than the overall HDI but still nothing stellar. Gujarat increased its Health Index during the period by 12.6% vs. 13.3% for India as a whole. A sub-par performance. It was ranked 9th best on this score in 2000, and moved up to 8th position in 2008. However, the % growth in the health index was 9th best out of 19 states. In order, Goa, Chattisgarh, Assam, Orissa, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand and Rajasthan all did better on this index in % terms. In absolute terms, the performance is much better (the one and only redeeming number I saw in the entire analysis). It did 5th best, after Goa, Chattisgarh, UP and Orissa in that order.

3. Income Index
This was a surprise, since a lot has been touted about Gujarat's economic growth. However, at least in this period, this does not get reflected in a stellar performance in the income index. Gujarat was slightly sub-par in terms of % increase in the income index, with a growth of 14.9% vs. 15.3% for India as a whole. It ranked 12th out of 19 states in this statistic, with only Punjab, Chattisgarh, Haryana, UP, Rajasthan, Delhi and Goa trailing it. Its rank on this measured stayed at 6 between 2000 and 2008. In absolute increase in the income index, it ranked 8th, behind Kerala, Assam, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Orissa and Maharashtra.

4. Education Index
This was where Gujarat did miserably. Its growth in education index between 2000 and 2008 was 12.7% vs. 17.5% for India as a whole. Gujarat was ranked 17th out of 19 states in the growth in the education index. It was also ranked 17th out of 19 on the absolute increase in this index. On both these measures, only Goa and Delhi were worse performers, both states with a much higher base figure to begin with. It was ranked 8th out of 19 states in 2000 on this index, but dropped two positions in 2008. Haryana (which had tied with Gujarat for 8th place in 2000) and Karnataka (at 10th place in 2000) both jumped ahead of Gujarat in 2008.

So tell me, where is the evidence of the stellar performance that you talk about repeatedly?

member_23365 · Post by **member_23365** » 20 Feb 2014 06:26

Is this AAP thread or Modi thread?????????

member_27845 · Post by **member_27845** » 20 Feb 2014 06:47

Amma is a true megalomaniac of the highest order. One should see the levels of sycophancy displayed here in TN ( it's in the political DNA by now , for all the rationalist humbug propaganda by the Dravidian parties for the last few decades )

She sees a real chance of becoming PM in a fractured verdict , hence she is non committal to any alliance so far with the BJP
( provided she wins 30+ seats , which is actually possible considering the state of the DMK as well as the withering away of the Congress in TN )

I shudder at the very possibility - she is one who can blow either way ; she might turn out to be a good PM if allied with the NDA ( she is a good administrator , but maybe lacks the vision thing and certainly has no national perspective ).
It could also be an utter disaster.

I feel that whatever happens this time around , the BJP must work hard and develop its state units in TN , AP , Kerala. These 3 states contribute over a 100 seats to LS and a national party must get representation ( atleast 20% ) from these 3 critical provinces. This would also hasten the complete demise of the Congress. We have seen time and again how the southern states keep giving seats ( or alliances ) to the Congress literally on a platter and even keep it relevant. The BJP does have an image problem - of being a " North Indian " party . But this is probably changing now , almost entirely due to NM's efforts and image. Now is the time to work for the future.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 20 Feb 2014 07:15

Good point. I will be happy to move my Modi related posts to the Modi thread if the Modi related posts it is in response to are also moved there.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 20 Feb 2014 07:20

Rahul Mehta: Someone MUST publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. And the question is relevant because he was a pracharak in RSS and many RSS-apex people ave made statements in favor of Varna Vyavastha. So somone must publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. If he says "NO, I oppose Varna Vysvastha", then good, more dalit votes will go to and more glory to him. And if he says "YES, I support VV" OR gives gol gol answers, then he will lose dalit votes, and so be it. But its time we finish this VV for good. And this may-2014 seems to be good oppurtunity to finish VV. (I am anti-VV)

Kapilrdave: Rahulbhai, two points.

1. What is the point in asking about NM's view regarding VV? It sounds like you have made up your mind that anyone who supports VV is an anti SC/ST type which is not true. The ancient VV had different meaning and purpose than how it has been practiced recently. The more appropriate question would be that what form of VV does NM support. But that again is a pointless question because it is not relevant/practical in today's time. What gives?

2. Again, what is the point in asking about NM's view regarding VV? He may say yes or no. But what does that yes/know means in reality? They are just words. What matters is his action. NM is not pappu or farji whose track record is non-existent, hence we have to depend on their words. NM's work speaks for himself. He has done good work for STs in the state. Unless you have some real proof of him being anti SC/ST, there is no reason to believe otherwise. His personal view regarding original VV notwithstanding.

Most RSS-apex leaders have been and still are supporters of VV = Varna Vyavastha, whatever it means. And I am anti-VV to core. IMO, (IMO) VV can spell doom on India, because biggest reason why Hinduism and India weakened was VV. NaMo was pracharak in RSS and so it should presumed that NaMo is pro-VV unless NaMo makes it clear in loud, open and public that he is anti-VV. NaMo has been best CM for SC\ST till date India has seen across state. But this is also due to vote bank politics --- after all, everyone does want SC\ST votes. If NaMo is anti-VV, then he should have no problem in attacking VV and saying that he is anti-VV. So there is valid reason for this question to be asked "are you pro-VV or anti-VV". And he is free to say YES, NO, remain silent or give clever witty tricky answer. But then dalits and other anti-VV people are no fools. They can understand that silence or clever and witty answer only means "yes, I support VV, but I will not even bother to say YES to you". A clever and witty answer may humor a support, but it is insult to a fence sitter and a doubting mind. Whatever answer NaMo gives, it will be fine.

It is NOT just VV. RSS-apex has been notorious for support for landlords, kings and inheritance over temple wealth !! RSS-apex was the only political group in Indian in 1970s which opposed Devi Indira Amma's decision to end King's Privy Purse because RSS-organizations get huge donations from ex-kings. RSS-apex has always been opposed to land reforms because RSS-organizations got huge donations from landlords. RSS-apex has also supported Rajasthan High Court decision to say that "it is legal for temple murti to own land" !! And RSS-apex has opposed the proposed laws to make temples community property of Hindus (Hindus, not govt) and run it like Sikh Gurudwara are run. And thats because donations RSS-organizations get from temple-owners. IOW, RSS-apex has been biggest roadblock in making Hindu sects as strong as Sikhism. NaMo comes from that stream. And so it should be presumed that NaMo supports all nefarious thoughts of RSS-apex unless he openly denounces it. (note : RSS-workers are committed folks. I have only abused RSS-apex, and NOT workers).

Now as per my asking question, I will follow a procedure. I will first prove that "nation wants to know". Not by shouting like paid-Arnab, but by convincing over 40 crore voters to send these questions to NaMo via SMS. NaMo, AK, Sonia etc tall leaders. They cant and need not answer questions from one single lonely common man like myself. And then can even ignore question from 40 crore voters. But till I prove that "40 crore voters want to know", I have no right to complain.

=======

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 20 Feb 2014 07:52

Rahul Mehta: And sadly, Arvindbhai explained it that "if I have a farm and if I hire a labor to grow wheat, then I should NOT be paying market price of wheat to my labor , but I should be paying labor charges plus profits ONLY".

Arjun: Hmmm, this thread seems likely to attract loads of low-IQ socialist "do-gooders" who have zero understanding of commercial arrangements in the real world - exactly the same profile that is attracted to the AAP. Where have you factored in the risk of gas exploration actually finding gas, in your facile analogy ? If you think there will be enough quality companies who can secure India's energy and eliminate foreign dependance, by offering only labor charge plus profits - then why don't you arrange for these quality firms (Indian ones) to bid against Reliance?

If you done with label throwing, then I would reply.

First, I am indeed low-IQ. My IQ is only 107. And I dont have 4 digit IQ which is why I am unable to see how "oppose all proposed laws , make NaMo PM only" method can fix India. And in 1998-2004 every single Minister such as ABV, LKA, Arun Shourie, Jetley, Jaswant, Yashwant, Jethmalani, Pramod etc sold India out for cash or power. So now I am unable to see, howTH this ""oppose all proposed laws , make NaMo PM only" method is going to work in 2014-2019. But that apart, I will cite my full answer from where you took two sentences.

Adrija : Sridhar, out of genuine curiosity, what exactly would you have the BJP do in this case?

Rahul Mehta:

BJP could have given a newspaper which briefly describes what administrative procedures it will use to decide gas price, and how much would be the gas price as per that procedure. And BJP could have given URL to some webpage on BJP's website which gives FULL details of their proposed formula. Linking gas price to be given to Indian companies, be ONGC or Reliance to international price is The Classiest Nonsense, and I can explain that to even 10th class student. And sadly, AK-420 explained it that "if I have a farm and if I hire a labor to grow wheat, then I should NOT be paying market price of wheat to my labor , but I should be paying labor charges plus profits ONLY". The international prices includes royalties and super-profits charged by mining companies in those countries. ONGC or Reliance cant be given those prices. Also, Reliance or ONGC dont pay their workers at international rates. Also, salaries and staff both in ONGC are highly bloated. They have 5 peons to do task of one peon. The perks given to ONGC officers are also too high. The staff and salaries in ONGC needs to be brought down. And same applies for a big potion of Central Govt and State Govt. Now some depts are indeed understaffed and under-paid. eg policemen are understaffed and underpaid, and so are soldiers. But PSU oil companies are big money wasters. BJP could have also given administrative procedures on how they propose to bring down staff and salaries in ONGC. Now BJP leaders have tons of money to make masks and make rallies. But they cant give a newspaper-advt and cant make a webpage.
...

My point is NOT that gas price should be or should NOT be $8/unit. But Yashwant Sinha supported this price rise. And so least BJP could have done is that they could have made a webpage on their website explaining why BJP supports $8/unit. And they could have given newspaper ad giving brief explanation and URL to that webpage. Instead BJP-leaders pushed the whole issue of gas price increase under carpet and merely passed the blame on Congress-leaders. If Rockefellar had not ordered AK-420 to raise this issue and if Rockefellar had not paid TV-channels to raise this issue, then whole issue would have gone unnoticed by most voters. This is the sorry state of politics we have that we need Rockefellars' network and Rockefellar's money to Indian TV-channels to make issues vital to Indian economy known to Indian voters !!!

Besides, Congress-leaders, AAP-leaders and BJP-leaders deliberate indecision to improve PSU is appalling. I see car drivers in PSUs making making Rs 25000 per month of salary, and all perks including low fees they pay in central school, to medical to cheap housing etc would cross Rs 60000 per month. I support a field engineer making big bucks as it is specialized job and needs lots of experience and training. But giving such high salary to car drivers, peons, clerks, file pushers can make any company loss maker. So now ONGC charges high because of such bloated staff and bloated salaries. BJP-leaders take that as basic cost and raise gas prices. And IMO, I feel it is my duty to inform ALL activists about these decisions of these leaders.

========

And finally,

Rahul Mehta: And yes, eventual solution is to create more PSUs as well as more private Indian companies in exploration as well as drilling.

Arjun: Yes, until we have more Indian companies who are experienced in the game - GOI will not have much bargaining power. Just accept this simple reality and focus on creating the additional competition.

aare bhai, thats exactly what I am doing. In order to create more oil PSUs and more private Swadeshi oil companies in India, we need law-drafts like Right to Recall PM, RTR Petroleum Minister etc. And to ensure that oil PSUs are run well, we need RTR over ONGC Chairman and JurySys over ONGC staff. And Jury should be empowered to take narco-test in public if they suspect that Petrol Minister or ONGC chairman had entered into some secret nefarious pact. And since 1998, I have been trying to bring these law-drafts printed in Indian Gazette. I am informing more and more activists and voters about these law-drafts and I am asking them to force leaders to print these law-drafts in Gazette. IOW, all I am doing is to increase competition in oil business in India, without bringing foreign companies in India. Thanks for asking me to do what I have been already doing for 15 years !!

Misra · Post by **Misra** » 20 Feb 2014 08:01

Sridhar wrote:KaranM:

I...believe in...empirical evidence...Let me tell you what I found.
...
So tell me, where is the evidence of the stellar performance that you talk about repeatedly?

er...2008 was six small years ago....

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 20 Feb 2014 08:08

problem is modi is PM candidate yet he chooses not to speak on the current sutuations like telangana, AAP. All these are also talking points. As a could-be-PM I want to hear his opinion but looks like he is playing MMS here. Why, is he playing safe? Is he afraid of creating more controversies? I am not trying to bait him here but I honestly think he should speak.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 20 Feb 2014 08:16

He has already spoken many times of evil games of mafia in AP. So what more he can do. He is not a MP so can not do anything about what is happening in LS or RS. He is not sole boss of BJP like mafia queen of mafia gang.

disha · Post by **disha** » 20 Feb 2014 08:23

Narayana Rao wrote:He has already spoken many times of evil games of mafia in AP. So what more he can do. He is not a MP so can not do anything about what is happening in LS or RS. He is not sole boss of BJP like mafia queen of mafia gang.

And people call him Hitler! There is a Hitler-rani -> the termite queen and people forget that!!

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 20 Feb 2014 08:31

Many persons here were pro-Anna. Well, since 10-apr-2011, I have been telling all that AK is AK-420 and Anna is Anna-840. Now see for yourself. For cheap publicity, Anna-840 is praising the most pro-Bangladeshi-infiltrator leader in India , Mamta Begum.

Mamta Begum has made pact with Saudi Arabia that Mamta Begum would allow Bangladeshi to enter West Bengal, give them ration card etc and then enable them to move anywhere in India !! And in return, Saudi Arabia ordered Imams in West Bengal to order muslim voters in West Bengal to vote for Mamta Begum. And now deal Anna-840 has with Mamta Begum is that Mamta Begum will use her clout in Saudi paid mediamen to give publicity to Anna-840. And so anna-840 is now praising Mamta Begum.

Solution I propose is that we should tell all supporters of Anna-840 th FACT that Anna-840 is supporter of Bangladeshi-infiltrators. That would reduce the following of Anna-840.

disha · Post by **disha** » 20 Feb 2014 08:51

This is part II in the jal-yudh saga.

Dear Kumarn, if you have followed up on my previous post ., here is some more follow up you must do.

Tell your friend the following:

1. That the "truthofgujarat" has twisted the statement of the Hon' CM of Guj and wrote what is called FUD or Lies.

2. Gujarat has created the world's largest., yes - take a pride about it, swallow your cynicism and agree that Gujarat has created the world's largest water pipeline distribution system.

The water pipeline is 700 Km and that is the *biggest* of its kind in the world.

http://deshgujarat.com/2013/02/18/narma ... lds-first/

This is the water pipeline which Narendra Modi (NaMo) dedicated to the BSF and border areas

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/w ... n/1133458/

For the jawans braving extreme weather conditions in the 'Great Rann of Kutch', several check posts along the India-Pakistan border will soon be provided with regular supply of fresh water from Narmada river.

The work of laying fresh pipelines and replacement of existing dilapidated pipes is on in full swing along the "crucial and sensitive" border line, said officials in charge of guarding the frontier.
...
"Authorities (Gujarat government) are replacing the existing pipelines and laying new channels. They have said the work will be done till the last point of the border," said A S Rathore, Deputy Inspector General (DIG) BSF, Bhuj sector.
...
The Great Rann of Kutch is a marsh area of over 5,000 square kms. It has no source of fresh water.
...
Kutch district has an area of 45,652 sq kms with no habitation or civilian population as the soil has a salinity level of up to 60%.

So who claims that this is the largest water pipeline network of its kind? The Danish government. Here it is:

http://www.prnewswire.co.in/news-releas ... 09931.html

Mr. Freddy Svane, Ambassador of Denmark to India said that Gujarat was chosen due to the successful creation of unparalleled State Wide Water Grid that is the biggest of its kind in the world and highlighted the water expertise, knowledge, competence and high standard of Danish Water Forum, making it a perfect organization to serve and strengthen the water distribution systems in Gujarat.

Of course RM'ji will say MNC sold out - but the ordinary #gujju on the ground will say - Danish wants to do Bijjnez and they have water management tech and pipe laying tech and I need to get water. Particularly, I do not want my kids to have skeletal fluorisis:

The number of fluoride affected habitations has reduced from 4187 to just 40 during last few years due to establishment of Gujarat State Wide drinking water Grid network".

If your friend disagrees say "skeletal fluorisis" on her and her progeny and move on, but since you are far better person than me, you will talk about:

Other benefits of the water pipeline:

Land acquisition. Laying 700 Km of distribution water pipeline underground means there is no costly and time consuming land acquisition - set the water pipeline under ground and let the farmer do the kheti - and while laying the pipeline, turn the soil around, take a soil health card, provide soln. to fix the soil to the farmer and make him a partner in water management.

http://www.newslaundry.com/2014/02/19/w ... -for-modi/

Gujarat has done something spectacular. In the knowledge that it is much easier to acquire land for laying pipelines than for constructing canals, Gujarat has put in place a 700 km long water pipeline grid system.

So what does Modi do? Here is what he does:

1. Ribbon cutting: http://deshgujarat.com/2013/08/15/modi- ... e-for-bsf/ and while doing the ribbon cutting, this is also done:

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi today said the Narmada waters distribution network under the Sardar Sarovar Project (SSP) command area would be handed over to the farmers’ water users committees in about 5,000 villages in the state.

http://www.narendramodi.in/gujarat-chie ... rencing-2/

2. Sits on the committees to make executive decisions:

, the Chief Minister of Gujarat appointed an Expert Group to examine various ways -- including the IWMI proposal -- to expedite the completion of the SSP distribution system.

Unlike Khujli #AAPTard who runs for Dharna at a every imaginable moment and resigns to gain TRP and do mastikhori with Burkha!

http://www.iwmi.cgiar.org/Publications/ ... WOR141.pdf

So good luck and let us know what else does she need to get convinced?

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 20 Feb 2014 09:11

Why did Congress-leaders, BJP-leaders etc decided to raise gas-price as on 1-apr-2014 and not after elections? Now the gas price increase will be postponed and credit will go to AK-420.

Anyway, I must give some thanks to "Rockefeller" aka MNC-owners. Its Rockefeller who ordered AK-420 to raise gas issue and it was Rockefeller who has paid mediamen to publicize AK-420's messages on gas price issue to voters. Whatever motives Rockefeller has, as of today in India, I see only Rockefeller spending money on voter education. There are indeed small people like myself who give newspaper advertisements and inform voters about issues as well as solutions we think. But other activists and leaders are spending money only on cap/mask buying and NOT spending any money on informing voters about problems of solutions they propose.

Now in absence of information, there is too much darkness. So I request all supporters of all leaders to wear AAP-cap or NaMo-masks with radium coating, so that at least we can see the cap/mask. Other than cap or mask, you have nothing to show anyway.

=====

The 16000 pound elephant which is missing in the room and yet we are not noticing its absence is that India is NOT making any equipment to explore oil or drill oil or gas. Almost everything is import. And the mess is because of decisions of Congress-leaders , BJP-leaders, CPM-leaders to oppose law-drafts necessary to make Indian industries competitive.

As per possibility that BJP-leaders will make gas\oil business competitive, well BJP-leaders didnt make even land business competitive. Despite huge vacant plots, land prices are high in Ahmedabad and across Indian cities. Competition doesnt come by mask-wearing and slogan shouting. Competition requires serious law-drafting. BJP-leaders never spent a minute of their whole life in printing law-drafts that would make land cheap for industries and businesses. Across India, BJP-leaders, like Congress-leaders, colluded with land-owners to keep land prices high. So I dont see any reason to create hopes that BJP-leaders will make gas/oil sector more competitive.

As I see, BJP-leaders , Congress-leaders and AAP-leaders will finally support Rockefeller's demand to allow foreign companies inside India for oil/gas price exploration and drilling to reduce gas prices in India. The argument which Congress\BJP leaders made that "bring FDI in retail to bring down food pries and inflation" will be repeated. MNC-owners captured Iraqi oil wells after war. They will capture Indian oil wells via paid-media, paid-activists and paid-leaders.