J & K news and discussion

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 07 Jun 2010 18:46

Pranav wrote:Hmm ... CRM assumes too much ... why is he parroting what appears to be propaganda from suspect sources? It is not so simple

You should read his "Crossing the Rubicon: The shaping of India's new foreign policy". He writes too much in favour of anglo-saxon lobby. In few aspects in current times, the interests of India and anglo-saxon lobby do seem to converge, but the finer picture reveal quite a few irregularities which will crop up when primary threat has been addressed.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 07 Jun 2010 19:08

Depends on whether the players actually are aware that they are playing the game. ASS( Anglo Saxon Serpents) is using us, and its okay as long as we also play hardball and extract what we need for the future - essentially non-intervention in favour of Pakis and Jihadis from that entire spectrum of ME-AFPAK, as well as full support for dissolution of POGWI and incorporation of the territories currently occupied by the Paki government into India. I would throw in a few more bits too so that those bits can be given up as "concessions" and compromises.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Jun 2010 20:19

Pranav wrote:
C. Raja Mohan

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-b ... r/630224/0

He displays an unusually defensive, cowardly tone in his writings; as though sky is going to fall off if India doesn't do this, and this. No obligation on the part of the valley Muslim bigots and their TSP sponsors to do their bit. See his conclusion:

The PM, more than any one else in Delhi, knows the perils of failing to act in time. During 2005-07, he had launched India on a consequential engagement with Pakistan. But Delhi’s indecisiveness at crucial moments prevented the consolidation of the significant progress made on Kashmir. Dr Singh and the nation can’t afford to repeat that error again.

If India's position is this weak as CRM suggests, then why would a nuke-armed "Kashmir banega TSP" in its jugular vein sit by and let India sieze the initiative? Unless of course,m latent in his agenda is the US/UK-dictated Mush-MMS formula of joint soverignty. There is no so called internal dimension to Kashmir as far as India is concerned. The valley Muslim bigots are not going to give bear hugs to India as long as they get pampered from all sides: US, TSP, and India. Only when they know they have no external patron will they tuck their tails between their legs and beg for deliverance from New Delhi. Till then I say keep them on a tight leash, and shoot the MoFos if they cross the line.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Jun 2010 20:19

Indian PM Singh in Kashmir visit...courtsey 'Bahut Bada C^%&*(@ '

Hundreds of thousands of Indian troops are based in Kashmir to fight a two decade-old insurgency against Indian rule.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Jun 2010 20:32

negi wrote:Indian PM Singh in Kashmir visit...courtsey 'Bahut Bada C^%&*(@ '

Hundreds of thousands of Indian troops are based in Kashmir to fight a two decade-old insurgency against Indian rule.

[/quote]

This crap about 1000s of Indian troops bludgeoning "innocent" Kashmiri Muslims is a blot on India's democracy is used ad nauseum to bellittle and embarass India. Of course, other than India is "impending super power" spewing BS by elites like Vir Sanghvi, no other Indian gives a rat's behind for this high standard India is held to. Do Americans give 2 hoots as the world greatest democracy for their unstinted support to Israel despite its brutal treatment of Palestinians?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 07 Jun 2010 20:58

CRamS wrote:
negi wrote:Indian PM Singh in Kashmir visit...courtsey 'Bahut Bada C^%&*(@ '

Hundreds of thousands of Indian troops are based in Kashmir to fight a two decade-old insurgency against Indian rule.

This crap about 1000s of Indian troops bludgeoning "innocent" Kashmiri Muslims is a blot on India's democracy is used ad nauseum to bellittle and embarass India. Of course, other than India is "impending super power" spewing BS by elites like Vir Sanghvi, no other Indian gives a rat's behind for this high standard India is held to. Do Americans give 2 hoots as the world greatest democracy for their unstinted support to Israel despite its brutal treatment of Palestinians?

Negi ji and CRam ji, please don't misunderstand me, this is not to you personally.. Just that I happen to write out this thought which I wanted to write for long after reading this post of yours.. My apologies in advance..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand why we expect the anglo-saxons and islamists and Chinese to play fairly. When has world been ruled by fair-play which is just to all (except in Pre-Mahabharat era of which we know zilch). I would give them all their due credit. They have worked hard to potty-shoot on rest of the world and they know their days of dysentric shittting are numbered.

Expecting a "Dharmic" behaviour from a "Mlenchha" is unjust and stupid, which we jingo-abduls tend to indulge in quite a lot. It is Maya onlee. India was the biggest economy of the world for 4800 years at a stretch, and destined to regain that status soon. In the life of Brahmadeva, this is a millisecond onlee...

Same is with the Israel-Flotilla jhagda on indo-israeli dhaaga.. In given times, Israel and Indians are natural complements. Isn't that enough to prioritize our geopolitical opinions? When times change and common threat to India and Israel stops being a threat, India will condemn Israel in words and action if anything like this is done. Also, Israel won't do anything like this to anyone, in first place. After the "common-threat" stops being a threat, Israel will have to come in terms with arabs and accept them and their world-view.

I would like to put a biological perspective finally. never before in history of mankind, has population increased so much. This is (post penicillin era) the most prosperous era of human history, and this is what it will cause our undoing along with our planet. The system is overloaded, even bacteria kill off each other to regain the equilibrium with surrounding. The stupid arguments of ME will carry on in one form OR the other and the power which controls Levant and Suez will continue to go to any extent to preserve her power in space and time.

I will stop my ramblings.. We need to

, because doing

catches attention and makes people realize that we are in pain. But it would be great if we could do

without getting attached to the fruit of this karma. Nishkaam karmayogic

would be awesome... This is best exemplified by BENIS dhaga and TSP dhaga. The way in which we sport totally sup-e-rear attitude towards pureland, needs to be imbibed when talking about its three and half fathers as well. Same attitude is needed while talking to islamists and EJs and similar coterie. We know our problems and we are working towards fixing them.

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Jun 2010 09:18

Very, very interesting article and good news if true ( about MMS having given up on Pak and peace with them):
Kashmir: pessimism may be good news

Last month, Noorjehan Baba left her home in Srinagar's Dal Gate area to start a new life across the Line of Control with the man who unleashed a war which claimed her first husband's life. Her husband, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen field commander Khurshid Baba, died in 1995, fighting the Indian forces in central Kashmir. For the next five years, Ms Baba retreated into a dark shroud which widows across South Asia are expected to do. Early this year, though, a family friend approached her with an offer of marriage. Her suitor was much older — but had wealth and status.

United Jihad Council chairman and Hizb supreme commander Mohammad Yusuf Shah's marriage to Ms Baba at his Rawalpindi home drew neither television crews nor newspaper reporters. It ought to have: that the 61-year-old jihad commander had love on his mind this summer, rather than war, tells us not a little about where Jammu and Kashmir is headed. Eight weeks after the November 2008 carnage in Mumbai, Shah told a rally in Muzaffarabad, “Jihad will continue until the independence of Kashmir.” Instead, violence in the State has diminished to an all-time low and the Hizb has all but disintegrated.

This is good news for India — but a serious problem for New Delhi's efforts at peacemaking in Jammu and Kashmir.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's low-key visit to Srinagar this week illustrates the rise of a new caution in New Delhi's policy on Jammu and Kashmir. In an address to students graduating from the Sher-i-Kashmir Agricultural University, Dr. Singh focussed on issues linked to development. For those hoping for a call to Kashmiri secessionists to renew their engagement with the government, there was only the repetition of a long-standing offer to “to hold talks with the representative of any group which shuns violence and terror.” Meaningful dialogue with Pakistan on the State, he suggested, would be “possible only when Pakistan doesn't let its territory be used for acts of terror against India”.

Despite concerns at the continued operations of jihadist groups, violence in the State remains in decline. In 2007, there were 170 civilian deaths; last year, 83 were killed. The security forces and the Jammu and Kashmir police lost 79 personnel last year, down from 122 in 2007. Two years ago, 472 terrorists were killed; just 239 were shot dead in 2009. Improvised explosive device use fell from 56 in 2007 to 23 last year; grenade attacks from 107 to 56. Levels of violence were marginally higher in the first five months of 2010 than during the same period in 2009 — but infiltration has been lower, suggesting that no major escalation is imminent.

The decline in violence has, oddly, made it difficult for the two key actors in the peace process — the jihadists and Kashmiri secessionist politicians — to reach for New Delhi's olive branch.

Pakistan-based jihadists have found their political leverage within Jammu and Kashmir severely degraded. India's intelligence services estimate that there are between 500 and 600 jihadists operating in the State today — less than a tenth of the numbers in 2001. Ethnic Kashmiri jihadist groups like the Hizb no longer have the network and infrastructure to benefit from post-peace politics. Islamist elements in urban Kashmir are increasingly supportive of the global jihadist project of organisations such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba, not the Jamaat-e-Islami linked, State-focussed politics of the Hizb. None of the five sons Shah left in Kashmir to be brought up by his wife Taj Begum when he left for Pakistan in 1994 has, notably, been drawn to their father's cause; three of them hold government jobs.

Last year, Shah expressly asked the Hurriyat leadership “not to take a hasty decision with regard to dialogue with Delhi, as bilateral talks had proved futile in the past.” In February, he asserted that there was “no option other than the armed struggle”.

Lashkar chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, for his part, called in a recent speech for closer jihadist-secessionist politics. “The first priority “is to end this [India's] tyrannical occupation, and to end it, it is critical that both armed struggle and political parties must be united.” “The most important thing,” Saeed went on, “is that the people of Kashmir, through their untold sacrifices in the struggle for freedom, have shown that they can give their all in the struggle against Hindu imperialism.”

In practice, this means the jihadists have thrown their weight behind Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani, whose Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has long rejected dialogue with New Delhi. Pressure from Mr. Geelani and the jihadists has made it difficult for the Hurriyat — the second key actor in the peace process — to move forward. It has deeper problems.

Ever since the Assembly elections were held in 2008, it has been evident to the Hurriyat that its constituency in Jammu and Kashmir is contracting. “Elections are ultimately projected as a sort of referendum by India, and that is why we have called for a complete boycott of such a process,” Mirwaiz Farooq said that November. He issued “a last call to the so-called mainstream politicians to join the separatist movement.” Humiliation followed hubris: starting from a week after the Mirwaiz held out his threat, well over half of registered voters in the State participated in the elections. Interestingly, more than 63 per cent of voters in Shah's home village, Soibug, defied the boycott call.

Last year's protests in Shopian against the alleged rape-murder of two south Kashmir women — later established as accidental deaths by the Central Bureau of Investigation — also demonstrated the Hurriyat's limited reach. Just 17 of 111 documented Shopian-related protests between May 30, 2009 and June 30, 2009 took place in rural and semi-rural areas. More than half of the rural protests, moreover, occurred in villages just outside Shopian town. Fewer than a dozen rallies drew more than 1,000 supporters.

Kashmiri secessionist politicians have come to realise that their political position rests on weak foundations. But they seem to have little idea of what to do about it. Torn between pro-dialogue realists like Butt and anti-negotiation hawks like Shabbir Shah, Mirwaiz Farooq has chosen to retreat into a shell. In a recent interview, he called on Pakistan to evolve consensus on its future position on Kashmir, a process that could, quite obviously, take years. He has also ruled out immediate engagement with New Delhi but offered no alternative.

Prime Minister Singh's speech suggests that New Delhi's patience has worn thin — and that might be just good news. Barring small pockets of Islamist-led protests in Kashmir's inner city neighbourhoods, the State government faces no major political challenge. It has, however, been unable to move forward. For more than a decade, democratic politics in Jammu and Kashmir has had to confront the prospect of a new dispensation emerging as a consequence of the peace process. Elected leaders have thus had little incentive to focus on the kind of long-term issues needed to institutionalise democratic governance. Instead of chasing the chimera of a historic peace deal with Pakistan and the secessionists, New Delhi seems to be realising that doing nothing might, paradoxical as it might seem, yield the best outcomes.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 08 Jun 2010 09:57

This is probably what MMS is looking at, the so called Indo-Pak engagement process has never resulted in any real damage or compromises and seems catered more towards showing the U.S. that we are talking and moving forward.

It's a good tme to forget about the Pakistan element and just move forward with Internal secuty and rapid development , the future of J&K is bright.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Jun 2010 10:44

Sum:

Not a bad article by Praveen Swami. Similar to what I was saying earlier, namely, just hold fort in a battle of attrition.

That said, I am not so sure of a some points he makes. First, I don't believe Hurriyat is as weak as he claims. For years, India was hoping that Hurriyat will become a non entity. IMO, they do seem to have a huge following among the Abduls and elites in and around Srinagar, and with Pakis, can thwart any political move India makes.

Coming to apparent lull in Paki terror, here is my theory. As brave, courageous, and resourceful our guys have been, I don't believe the lull is due to them alone. I think its a strategic decision by TSP to go slow except for the occasional green signal given to their Lashkar boys to make their presence felt. Here is my reasoning.

TSP thinking is that sooner or later the valley will fall in their laps, and they want to inherit all the goodies India is invested in. Recall, TSP hates India, but is desparate for everyhting Indian, be it Bollywood, IPL, women, you name it. Thus, continued unabated terror was taking its toll, i.e., the local Muslim bigots, closet Pakis themselves also enjoying India's goodies were neverthless getting pissed with the destructive effects of Paki terror, and which in any case was no closer to achieving their dream. Thus, Pakis make a strategic decision to hold back on LET, and instead settle for a covert political battle with India through their APHC proxies.

I still believe TSP will settle for joint soverignty. If this can be negotiated, then as part of the deal, APHC will contest elections, make inroads into J&K legislature and dictate terms to India.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Jun 2010 10:51

CRamS wrote:

TSP thinking is that sooner or later the valley will fall in their laps, and they want to inherit all the goodies India is invested in. Recall, TSP hates India, but is desparate for everyhting Indian, be it Bollywood, IPL, women, you name it.

This is predatory behavior of the Islamists for grabbing other resources.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 08 Jun 2010 11:26

Coming to apparent lull in Paki terror, here is my theory. As brave, courageous, and resourceful our guys have been, I don't believe the lull is due to them alone. I think its a strategic decision by TSP to go slow except for the occasional green signal given to their Lashkar boys to make their presence felt. Here is my reasoning.

doubt that, there has been no going slow from the Pakis on terror but since it has become increasingly difficult for them but since getting into J&K has been incredibly difficult for Pakis off late , they have concentrated their strikes all across India via proxies, the ultimate aim remains the same i.e. Solve the Kashmir issue and give us what we want or this continues.

After Kargil , IA fenced the LoC and installed an unprecedented force near it, entire militant commanders were wiped out too. Besides, ongoing attepmts at infiltration and grenade attacks in Lal Chowk demostrate that there has been no slowing down in attempts, Pakis realize that to get serious attention they need constant terror attacks in India or else a safe india will become too powerful to contend with in a little while.

The attempts will continue but their handle on Kashmir (if any) is totally coming off and they know it.

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 08 Jun 2010 16:30

The old paranoia of competing with India will never fade away. A visit to the French Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu who was immesly influential in management and strategic studies is useful. If you cannot compete with someone embrace her or his cultural capital and material products. That has already happened with them. Then the ,"Hey wait dont run away we are coming" syndrome and copy indian cultural imports even though you hate them and then burn with jelousy and say we will be friends but this call for freindship has ulterior motives. It is not the people, but the elites who are the problem. The people have long been destroyed by jihadist propaganda. A detoxification program in J&K is a must.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Jun 2010 07:48

Some photos from PM's visit to Srinagar

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=28908

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=28907

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=28906

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=28905

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=28904

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=28903

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Jun 2010 08:34

Manmohan announces over Rs.1,000-crore sops for J&K

http://www.hindu.com/2010/06/09/stories ... 671300.htm

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Jun 2010 09:21

Nutty nation describes the "befitting reception in Srinagar" received by MMS. Was it really that bad?

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 11 Jun 2010 00:51

The valley at the centre of the Kashmir insurgency

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jun 2010 01:43

^ Reminds me Gen. Paddy's story in 2017-India

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Jun 2010 09:24

The Kashmir dilemma By Kuldip Nayar
This Donkey Man Should have been better if stillborn. The very face of this fuddu is overflowing with Dhimminess.
Wonder why he even live in India and dont move to lahore. BDY jammdya mar janda ta edhi shakal naa dekhni pehnde.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ilemma-160

Believe me I am not underestimating the sacrifices of the people. Very few movements in the world have been so determined and so sustained. The Hurriyat should have returned to the ballot box after the violent agitation it had launched was having diminishing returns. In violence, the people in India witnessed a forceful cessation of Kashmir, considered part of the country. The Hurriyat movement was seen as a challenge to the country’s integrity. The Hurriyat should have tried to capture the Jammu and Kashmir assembly. Instead, they propagated the boycott of elections. Their argument was that the polls under the aegis of the Indian Election Commission were not acceptable to them. They proposed supervision by UN observers. No sovereign country could have accepted this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jun 2010 22:11

Jamwal a book review in Pioneer.

The Clash of Faith

The book is an insider’s account on the circumstances in which the people of Jammu & Kashmir rose over the Amarnath land agitation, the actors behind the scenes and its political fallout, writes Sandhya Jain

Jammu and Kashmir: Conflicting Perceptions
Author:Hari Om
Publisher: Yak Publishing Channel
Price:Rs 975

The year 2009 will surely be remembered for the spontaneous agitation over the Amarnath land for Hindu pilgrims. A keen witness to the uprising, Prof Hari Om, Gulab Singh Chair, Jammu University, Jammu, has recorded the circumstances in which the people rose, the actors behind the scenes, and its political fallout. Jammu and Kashmir: Conflicting Perceptions is a welcome insight into one of the most powerful and emotive movements in the contemporary era, a movement which held out despite threats of violence and militancy in the State. An unexpected fallout of the publication is controversy over the Maharaja Gulab Singh Chair itself, as the book shows a constitutional functionary in poor light. During the crisis, Dr Karan Singh, scion of the erstwhile ruling family, sought removal of the said eminence.

The holy cave of Amarnath is one of the most revered abodes of Lord Shiva, and its annual pilgrimage an eagerly awaited national attraction. Beginning on Vyas Purnima, it concludes on Shravan (Rakhi) Purnima; the traditional route of 141 km is via Pahalgam, Chandanwari, Pissu Ghati, Sheshnag and Panjtarani. There is another route via Sonamarg; more recently the State Government opened a shorter third route.

Hari Om debunks the myth that the pilgrimage originated after the holy cave was “discovered” in 1860 by shepherds Juma Malik, Aadam Malik and Buta Malik of village Batakot in Pahalgam area. A number of ancient texts and historical chronicles attest to the history and origin of Amarnath Yatra, including the Nilmata Purana (6th century); Bhringish Samhita and Amarnatha Mahamatya (pre-6th century); Kalhana’s seminal Rajatarangini (1148-49); Jonaraja’s Zaina Rajatarangini; Suka’s Rajatarangini; Pragyabhatta’s Rajavali Pitaka (these cover the era up to 1596); Abul Fazal’s Ain-i-Akbari (Vol 3); Francois Bernier’s Travels in Mughal Empire; Charles Ellison Bates’ A Gazetteer of Kashmir; Moorcraft William’s & George Trebeck’s Travels in the Himalayan provinces of Hindustan and the Punjab, in Ladakh and Kashmir, in Peshawar, Kabul, Kunduz and Bokhara; Ved Kumari’s Nilmata Purana, Vol I; and NK Zutshi’s Sultan Zain-ul-Abidin of Kashmir.

In 1996, a terrible natural calamity at Amarnath took many lives. The Nitish Sengupta Committee appointed by then Union Home Minister Inderjit Gupta suggested a host of measures to minimise future casualties, including opening the shorter Baltal route, and setting up a trust board on the lines of the Vaishno Devi shrine trust. In August 2000, militants attacked the base camp at Pahalgam and killed over 31 persons, prompting Farooq Abdullah to enact the Jammu and Kashmir Shri Amarnathji Shrine Act (JKSASA).

In 2001, Farooq Abdullah announced transfer of 5,000 kanals of government land to the Shrine Board for pilgrim facilities during the pilgrimage and authorised Swami Gian Ji, founder of Shiv Ashram, to “repair and renovate” the two sarais (rest houses) at Baltal. Mufti Mohammad Sayeed became Chief Minister in November 2002; his strained relations with the Governor deteriorated further when in, May 2004, Lt Gen SK Sinha accepted the public demand that the annual Amarnath pilgrimage be of two months duration as the month of Shravan witnessed the celestial rarity of three Purnimas (full moons).

In March-April 2005 Mufti cancelled the land allotted to the Shrine Board. Ghulam Nabi Azad became Chief Minister in November 2005; he allotted the land to the shrine board in May 2008. The PDP raised objections on the pretext of environmental degradation; All-Party Hurriyat Conference leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq joined the fray, raising the bogey of “a conspiracy to change the demography of the Kashmir Valley….” They were joined by the Kashmir High Court Bar Association, United Jehad Council, and mainstream political parties. That June, NN Vohra, the Centre’s pointsman on Kashmir, became Governor. He violated the Shrine Board Act by unilaterally asking the State Government to take back the Baltal land and handle the pilgrimage itself.

The BJP threatened an economic blockade, demanding Congress break ties with the PDP for vitiating the Amarnath Yatra for vote-bank politics; a complete hartal called in Jammu on June 30, 2008 was a success. This encouraged the RSS to set up a Sangharsh Samiti at a meeting at Ved Mandir, Jammu, under the auspices of prant pracharak Arun Kumar, as a “non-political platform” to ensure continuation of the agitation. Senior RSS functionary Ashok Kaul and BJP leader Chaman Lal Gupta became members of the core group. Leela Karan Sharma, advocate and RSS follower, was made convener of the SAYSS. Says Hari Om, among the real actors who worked behind the scenes were then BJP national general secretaries Arun Jaitley and Ram Lal.

SAYSS managed to attract the support of several Jammu-based social, religious and marginal political groups. Its 72-hour-long Jammu shutdown, a roaring success, made three specific demands — restore Baltal land to the Shrine Board, recall Governor NN Vohra, and dismiss the Congress-led Government. The movement became strong after July 23, when Kuldip Verma of Bishnah committed suicide at Jammu’s Parade Ground, in reaction to Omar Abdullah’s July 22 statement in Parliament that, “we will not give an inch of land to the Shrine Board.”

This prompted the real forces behind the agitation to constitute another 33-member core group comprising all Jammu-based organisations in SAYSS. Its convener too was Leela Karan Sharma. This broad-based core group met at regular intervals to endorse all decisions of the smaller core group; thereafter, the SAYSS leadership would go to the general house and obtain its consent. On several occasions, some youth grew impatient with this approach.

SAYSS’ problem was that it was intellectually ill-equipped; Leela Karan Sharma was inarticulate. The single-point agenda of the SAYSS was to compel the Government to give back the Baltal land, not rake up discrimination against Jammu or make any political statement. But office-bearers often went beyond the mandate, and created confusion.

Hari Om says that despite many contradictions in its stand, the role played by the BJP State unit was very significant as it educated public opinion, established that the struggle in Jammu was ideological, countered arguments advanced by opponents of the Jammu agitation, kept the issue of discrimination against Jammu alive, and took all possible steps to cultivate the Muslims of the region. It also consistently opposed all demands which had the potential to widen the gulf between Kashmir and New Delhi.

The eventual resolution of the Baltal land issue on August 31, 2009, led political parties to rush to woo their respective constituencies. BJP maintained a low profile for inexplicable reasons, perhaps to dispel the notion that it had a major role in the movement and to convey a feeling that it would not take political mileage out of the land issue. Hari Om expresses bafflement why BJP, which had said the Amarnath land issue would be its chief election plank during in the Assembly and 2009 general elections, turned so apologetic. He notes the party had turned apologetic in 1992 as well, when karsevaks (volunteers) demolished the disputed structure at Ayodhya. The Jammu-based Congress leaders availed of this vacuum to claim credit for the Union Government and party high command. The subsequent election results reflected this confusion.

All in all, an interesting, racy, and readable account by an inside observer of a major chapter in our contemporary history.

wig · Post by **wig** » 12 Jun 2010 09:45

The Centre today announced nearly 10-fold increase in the assistance provided towards the repair work of properties damaged during the action of security forces in Jammu and Kashmir.

The new scheme by Central Government provides for the compensation of up to Rs 10 lakhs, of which 70 per cent can be used for capital assets like houses damaged during anti-militancy operations and remaining 30 per cent for other properties of owners or tenants.

Earlier, the State Government had provided an ex-gratia relief equal to half of the loss incurred due to sabotage by terrorists. Maximum compensation provided under the scheme was Rs one lakh.

The new scheme has given nearly 10-fold increase to the maximum compensation and takes care of the damage suffered by the tenants who were not covered in the State Government’s scheme. This scheme subsumes the existing scheme of the State Government, a Home Ministry spokesperson said here.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

wig · Post by **wig** » 12 Jun 2010 09:55

[quote="ramana"]Jamwal a book review in Pioneer.

[quote]

SAYSS managed to attract the support of several Jammu-based social, religious and marginal political groups. Its 72-hour-long Jammu shutdown, a roaring success, made three specific demands — restore Baltal land to the Shrine Board, recall Governor NN Vohra, and dismiss the Congress-led Government. The movement became strong after July 23, when Kuldip Verma of Bishnah committed suicide at Jammu’s Parade Ground, in reaction to Omar Abdullah’s July 22 statement in Parliament that, “we will not give an inch of land to the Shrine Board.”

This prompted the real forces behind the agitation to constitute another 33-member core group comprising all Jammu-based organisations in SAYSS. Its convener too was Leela Karan Sharma. This broad-based core group met at regular intervals to endorse all decisions of the smaller core group; thereafter, the SAYSS leadership would go to the general house and obtain its consent. On several occasions, some youth grew impatient with this approach.

SAYSS’ problem was that it was intellectually ill-equipped; Leela Karan Sharma was inarticulate. The single-point agenda of the SAYSS was to compel the Government to give back the Baltal land, not rake up discrimination against Jammu or make any political statement. But office-bearers often went beyond the mandate, and created confusion.

Hari Om says that despite many contradictions in its stand, the role played by the BJP State unit was very significant as it educated public opinion, established that the struggle in Jammu was ideological, countered arguments advanced by opponents of the Jammu agitation, kept the issue of discrimination against Jammu alive, and took all possible steps to cultivate the Muslims of the region. It also consistently opposed all demands which had the potential to widen the gulf between Kashmir and New Delhi.

some minor points:
1. the Jammu shutdown started with 72 hour shutdowns but continued for 63 days. (unprecendented in Jammu)
2. L K Sharma is an advocate who practises law in the J&K High COurt who back then professed no political affiliations but stood on the BJP ticket in the Parliament elections for Jammu constituency. He lost.
3. Prof Hari Om (jammu University) was a member (ideologue) of the BJP and (grapevine) has it he was denied the ticket for the J&K Assembly election (jammu Constituency). he left the BJP shortly thereafter and joined the Congress(I).

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Jun 2010 08:37

TOIlet seems to be pulling hatchet pieces on full flow today. Guess on Sundays they get more eyes on their papers?

Life in the shadow of gun

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Jun 2010 04:15

Can't redraw border but can make it irrelevant: Rao

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 15 Jun 2010 15:31

pgbhat wrote:Can't redraw border but can make it irrelevant: Rao

Well call me whatever you want, but these discussions in third countries capital to me sound like giving up J&K by other names.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Jun 2010 20:45

pgbhat wrote:Can't redraw border but can make it irrelevant: Rao

She was the one who was blowing hot on Mumbai one day, and next day she calls up her TSP counterpart for talks. Thoo. Question that must be asked of her, and DDM should do this, is what are the details of this "joint mechanism"? Thats the dark horse. I don't believe TSP will just accept status quo and walk away, especially since we have come to this stage as a result of their terror apparatus, and that apparatus is intact and well, and TSP has paid no price for its actions. Only rewards so far.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Jun 2010 21:52

>>TSP has paid no price for its actions. Only rewards so far.

Are you sure about this? Would you rather that the tables were turned and India was in Pakisatan's place?

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 15 Jun 2010 22:16

CRamS wrote:...
She was the one who was blowing hot on Mumbai one day, and next day she calls up her TSP counterpart for talks. Thoo...

She is a diplomat my friend, she is a diplomat.

Diplomat by definition means two tounged. As long as India has many of those two tounged at right places, India is safe.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jun 2010 01:23

CRamS wrote:
pgbhat wrote:Can't redraw border but can make it irrelevant: Rao
She was the one who was blowing hot on Mumbai one day, and next day she calls up her TSP counterpart for talks. Thoo. Question that must be asked of her, and DDM should do this, is what are the details of this "joint mechanism"? Thats the dark horse. I don't believe TSP will just accept status quo and walk away, especially since we have come to this stage as a result of their terror apparatus, and that apparatus is intact and well, and TSP has paid no price for its actions. Only rewards so far.

Joint mechnism entails old wine in new bottle , it's still status quo and GoI perhaps relizes that if it can manufacture a creative looking solution and ram it down TSP's throat in due time (with Reverse US preassure ofcourse) we could get a situation whereby TSP no longer has anything to crib about wrt to Kashmir , thereby losing it's own sense of importance among its people.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 19 Jun 2010 19:07

Geelani wants reduction in duration of Amarnath yatra

Leader of the hardline faction of the All Party Hurriyat Conference Syed Ali Shah Geelani has demanded a reduction in the duration of the annual pilgrimage to Amarnath from two months to 15 days.

"They should come for the Yatra, we are not against it. But we are against the fact that the duration of the pilgrimage which was 15 days earlier, has now been extended to two months," Geelani said.

When it has been extended to two months, it would affect our atmosphere," he added.

http://sify.com/news/geelani-wants-redu ... ajabh.html

Now get ready for a replay of last years yatra.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 19 Jun 2010 19:09

Kashmir is not the personal property of Gillani : Leela Karan

Jammu, June 19 (Scoop News) – Former Convenior of Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti Leela Karan Sharma who headed 62 days historical Amarnath land Agitation today said Kashmir is the crown of mother India and not a personal propertey of Ali Shah Gillani and his supporters. He said Kashmir remained abode of Amar Rishi’s and Muneis

Addressing a press conference Leela Karan warned Ali Shah Gillani for spiting against Shri Amarnath Yatra which will start from July Ist. He said There are so many religious places and pilgrim centre of Hindus in the Valley in which crores of Hindus have faith and no body has any right to interfere in our religious affairs. The time place and duration of Yatra is the provogative of Amarnath Shrine Board and the representative of Hindu Religious Organisations to take decision in such a matter.

http://www.groundreport.com/World/Kashm ... _3/2924948

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Jun 2010 21:31

hulaku wrote:Geelani wants reduction in duration of Amarnath yatra

Leader of the hardline faction of the All Party Hurriyat Conference Syed Ali Shah Geelani has demanded a reduction in the duration of the annual pilgrimage to Amarnath from two months to 15 days.

"They should come for the Yatra, we are not against it. But we are against the fact that the duration of the pilgrimage which was 15 days earlier, has now been extended to two months," Geelani said.

When it has been extended to two months, it would affect our atmosphere," he added.
http://sify.com/news/geelani-wants-redu ... ajabh.html

Now get ready for a replay of last years yatra.

This is the true geelani, the two faced money grubbing shit.

http://www.thehindu.com/fline/fl2015/st ... 103200.htm

"While we are being accused of fielding proxy candidates in the last elections, Geelani himself contested elections in the past and is still receiving a pension as a former Member of the Legislative Assembly," Lone adde "While we are being accused of fielding proxy candidates in the last elections, Geelani himself contested d.

These allegations are centred around the fact that Geelani had received personal benefit from the Indian government. The expenses incurred in his recent treatment for cancer at the Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai were underwritten by the Jammu and Kashmir government, which even flew his private physician on a state plane from Srinagar to attend on the Jamaat-e-Islami leader. While at the hospital, Geelani was put up in a top-floor executive suite, the most expensive rooms available. This conduct, Lone said, was of a piece with his past conduct. While he had repeatedly exhorted Kashmiri families to send their sons to join the jehad against Indian rule, his own children had government jobs. Although Lone did not say so, the same is true of Geelani's most powerful terrorist sponsor, the Hizbul Mujahideen's Mohammad Yusuf Shah. Last year, one of Shah's sons was even transferred from an unrecognised medical college to the Sher-i-Kashmir Institute of Medical Sciences in violation of rules.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Jun 2010 22:04

Srinagar SSP removed after firing incident

The top cop in-charge of Srinagar was on Sunday summarily removed after the death of one person in firing by security forces in downtown Srinagar which triggered angry protests.

Riyaz Bedar, Senior Superintendent of Police, was replaced by Syed Ashiq Bukhari after a high-level meeting chaired by Chief Minister Omar Abdullah to review the law and order situation. Bukhari was SSP, counter-intelligence.

The meeting, attended by state DGP Kuldeep Khoda, Special Director General of CRPF N K Tripathy and other officers, was held after the firing incident in which CRPF is reported to have fired at the mob.

The Chief Minister has directed Divisional Commissioner, Srinagar, Tanveera Jahan to probe the incident and submit a report within a week.

Abdullah made it clear to the police and paramilitary forces that they must exercise utmost restraint in dealing with the public.{What if the public doesn't behave and acts like anti-national $#%^??}

Why in f%#** name would you remove a SSP in charge of counter-intel for a firing incident?

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 22 Jun 2010 14:18

One Pig killed

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Jun 2010 09:03

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ar ... ir_1400113

An army colonel was killed in an encounter with militants in the dense forests of Lolab Valley in North Kashmir, official sources said today. Col Neeraj Sood, commanding officer of 18 Rashtriya Rifles, was gunned down by terrorists last night, they said.

The encounter was still on in the area when last reports came in. Additional forces have been rushed to the area.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jun 2010 21:12

Separatists plan anti-India protest on Facebook

"People will know Kashmiris want Indian troops out," added Alam, who was released from jail earlier this month after spending nearly two years in custody for participating in huge anti-India protests in 2008.

Alam, like other hardline separatist politicians and militants, want Kashmir to merge with neighbouring Pakistan. Moderate Kashmiri separatists want the flashpoint Himalayan region to become independent.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Jun 2010 21:36

What is it with NDTV journo harping on and on about a 14 year old being shot dead while torching a CRPF vehicle?

Why is no one asking as to what the "innocent" 14 year old was doing torching a CRPF jeep in the first place?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Jun 2010 18:03

http://thecandideye.wordpress.com/2009/ ... st-agenda/

"A Hindu youth from Jammu, who was arrested by Ram Munshi Bagh police and kept under custody has been found to be dead under suspicious circumstances. It is being alleged that Rajneesh Sharma was killed because he married a muslim girl."

More from here : http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/769

When Ameena disclosed her desire to convert to the Hindu Dharm and marry her beau ideal, hell broke loose in the Muslim society and opposition to the wedding became an Islamic issue. Ameena eloped to Jammu. Rajneesh and Ameena went to the Arya Samaj, Jammu and declared their intention to tie the knot. The Arya Samaj received them with open arms and supported their idea of a wedding. On conversion to the Vedic Dharm, Ameena became Aanchal and along with Rajneesh performed the Havan, walked seven steps together in Saptpadi and took the vow to be together in life and death as husband and wife. Rajneesh’s father and the entire Sharma family along with friends, relatives and neighbourhood celebrated the Vedic wedding with feast, fun and frolic that it merited.

Back in Srinagar, Ameena’s father lodged an FIR with the Kashmir police that his minor daughter had been kidnapped by Rajneesh and forced to marry him. The complaint was against facts of the case. However, the communal overtones swayed the course of action and the Srinagar police went to Jammu and arrested Rajneesh. They brought him to Srinagar, tortured him endlessly for days and beat him black and blue for no fault of his. The bride, Ameena, in Jammu supported her husband through thick and thin but it did not cut ice with the pre-conceived notions of authorities in Srinagar. Ameena’s brother turned out to be the villain of the piece in perpetrating physical and mental cruelty on Rajneesh till he died of wounds inflicted on him. Here was a case of custodial death.

Anyone has any follow up on this issue?

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 26 Jun 2010 18:37

brihaspati wrote:http://thecandideye.wordpress.com/2009/ ... st-agenda/

"A Hindu youth from Jammu, who was arrested by Ram Munshi Bagh police and kept under custody has been found to be dead under suspicious circumstances. It is being alleged that Rajneesh Sharma was killed because he married a muslim girl."

More from here : http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/769

When Ameena disclosed her desire to convert to the Hindu Dharm and marry her beau ideal, hell broke loose in the Muslim society and opposition to the wedding became an Islamic issue. Ameena eloped to Jammu. Rajneesh and Ameena went to the Arya Samaj, Jammu and declared their intention to tie the knot. The Arya Samaj received them with open arms and supported their idea of a wedding. On conversion to the Vedic Dharm, Ameena became Aanchal and along with Rajneesh performed the Havan, walked seven steps together in Saptpadi and took the vow to be together in life and death as husband and wife. Rajneesh’s father and the entire Sharma family along with friends, relatives and neighbourhood celebrated the Vedic wedding with feast, fun and frolic that it merited.

Back in Srinagar, Ameena’s father lodged an FIR with the Kashmir police that his minor daughter had been kidnapped by Rajneesh and forced to marry him. The complaint was against facts of the case. However, the communal overtones swayed the course of action and the Srinagar police went to Jammu and arrested Rajneesh. They brought him to Srinagar, tortured him endlessly for days and beat him black and blue for no fault of his. The bride, Ameena, in Jammu supported her husband through thick and thin but it did not cut ice with the pre-conceived notions of authorities in Srinagar. Ameena’s brother turned out to be the villain of the piece in perpetrating physical and mental cruelty on Rajneesh till he died of wounds inflicted on him. Here was a case of custodial death.
Anyone has any follow up on this issue?

No idea Brihaspatiji. Pseudo secular Mainstream media has completely blacked out the news.These are the darkest days for hindus in the subcontinent since the days of Aurangzeb.Hindus should start weapons training as the future will be even worse.We cannot depend on the congress govt.It is of no use.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 27 Jun 2010 08:22

Jammu people thrash police on Rajneesh Sharma case

This happened in October 2009. A case has been registered with the NHRC:

Case No. 95/9/13/09-10-AD

Bombard the NHRC with queries on the case at the emails given in that link.

wig · Post by **wig** » 27 Jun 2010 11:23

bhrispati ji,
the boy hid around in jammu till the police closed in on the house he was hiding in. the boy apparently fled across the rooftops and jumped down injuring his ankle.
the Jk Police in this injured state got hold of the boy and rather than transporting him to hospital carried him of to srinagar where he was kept in a police station. to the best of my knowledge he was not given any medical assistance or produced in court.
tragically enough the boy was found dead ( suicide as per the JK Police) in the premises of the police lock up.
there were demonstrations ( civil unrest) in jammu and a lot of sympathy for the boy's family who were poor and the widowed bride.
some weeks ago the girl vanished from her in laws home in jammu and resurfaced in srinagar and claimed that she was duped and married against her will.