Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 Nov 2009 04:12

brihaspati wrote:
Curiously they are now beginning to bring in India more often, albeit reluctantly and still in a passive role - where the "great white sharks" actually battle it out. I think this is a panic stricken society whose frenzy is being whipped up by clever reliogious-political combinations to divert attention from real crises in society and economy which these very same religious-political combines have actually brought on. But the leadership still show no sign of recognizing their severe religious and racial viewpoint errors. And their ideological blindfold will be their undoing.

Great points.
Watched the 2012 movie in which an Indian discovers the tectonic plate shift which creates great flooding. when India is flooded completely the gal next to me says - Oh! India India.

Another agency guy tells me that when climate global warming effect takes place India is the first country to have severe damage.

They are all anticipating a fall nation and India is brought reluctantly.

Bharath.Subramanyam · Post by **Bharath.Subramanyam** » 30 Nov 2009 05:59

Brihaspati ji: See this article by 15 year old youngster http://bit.ly/5ui32n

The brain washing seems to be complete in most regions of India. See the WKK attitude in 15 year old.

"Pakistan and India have been childishly arguing since their independence."

"Pakistan and India, two neighboring nations that were once united as a single country, harass and torment each other- perpetually."

With this kind of population coming up to vote in another few years, what will be the rashtriya response to issues? I really don't know whether this kind of WKK are becoming big in numbers or only their voices are heard in media.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Nov 2009 07:47

Bharath ji,
it need not be a 15 year old brain that wrote it, even if it was a 15 year old hand. My conjecture is that, when faced with the realities of the world and social conditions, especially if that 15 year old comes out of India -or waits in India until the aggressions and societal collapses or retreats happen - that WKK brain will swiftly turn to its most vicious and vehement opposite position.

I am not worried about such brains. They will be swept into a great regeneration and reawakening. You will have to wait and see. It is not about wild wishes, but a deep personal conviction. I am also confident that once each of us, individually, make that conscious decision not to accept what is happening in India - socially, educationally, ideologically - that starts the beginning of the change.

To start with, the total number of such individuals will be small, a seemingly hopeless minority. But if that minority can hold its determination, maintain an iron will from deep inside, that minority one day will become the majority. Their ideology and viewpoint will one day prevail.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 30 Nov 2009 07:53

brihaspati wrote: I am also confident that once each of us, individually, make that conscious decision not to accept what is happening in India - socially, educationally, ideologically - that starts the beginning of the change.

Saadho... Saadho....

accept my regards...

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 01 Dec 2009 00:08

Bharath.Subramanyam wrote:Brihaspati ji: See this article by 15 year old youngster http://bit.ly/5ui32n

The brain washing seems to be complete in most regions of India. See the WKK attitude in 15 year old.

"Pakistan and India have been childishly arguing since their independence."

"Pakistan and India, two neighboring nations that were once united as a single country, harass and torment each other- perpetually."

With this kind of population coming up to vote in another few years, what will be the rashtriya response to issues? I really don't know whether this kind of WKK are becoming big in numbers or only their voices are heard in media.

I was once a 15 year old brain like this.
Brihaspati is right. The conviction of a few can rapidly change minds

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 01 Dec 2009 00:21

Astrological behviour . of the various articles which i have read and seen and compiled a few of the references. first that strikes is the astronomical behavior occurring in the 2012 range , this is not the 2012 garbage prophesy but one thing that caught my eye is the fact that a series of disturbances are in store for in Pakistan's and China's times

I am reading this book on Vedic Astronomy, and it talks about Earth's axial precession. It takes nearly 26000 years for full rotation. It takes ~72 years for 1 degree of change. I haven’t read the book completely but the seasons change by a month every so often. If 2012 coincides with such a moment, it might indicate El Niño type scenarios greatly impacting national wealth and even borders?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2009 01:11

RamaY wrote:

I am reading this book on Vedic Astronomy, and it talks about Earth's axial precession. It takes nearly 26000 years for full rotation. It takes ~72 years for 1 degree of change. I haven’t read the book completely but the seasons change by a month every so often. If 2012 coincides with such a moment, it might indicate El Niño type scenarios greatly impacting national wealth and even borders?

There is no connection in this case.
But the current period 1990s to 2020 are realignment of the stars to the earlier period 26000 years ago.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 01 Dec 2009 02:00

The axial alignment can change the differential amount of sunlight over the annual cycle - but will depend in a complicated way with the cycles in orbital-shape change. The Milankovich cycles are seen to be more directly related to climatic changes. Astrolgically, the constellations appear to simply appear as convenient placeholders for dividing up the apparent orbital plane. A wobble of the axis will dip the ecleptic slightly but will not affect the virtual division of the zodiac very much. Moreover Vedic astrology compensates for the "precession" and the only Nirayana [no-ayana] astrology I am aware of.

There are much smaller cycles of orbital shape changes that are seen to have direct climatic effects. These are also related to solar cycles and orbital changes. In the solar cycles, the appproximately 87-90 year, 240 year etc, cycles are observed. An important cycle seems to be a 1470-1500 year cycle of recurring aridity and megadroughts connected to weakening Monsoons and other phenomena worldwide.

There are some indications that East Asia might have already entered a long-period drought patch. Gradually this may extend to parts of India, but the intensification need not be observable fully until another 50-100 years.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 01 Dec 2009 03:00

Given this behaviour would it be possible for the Rivers to have abnormal flow pattern , If Indus,Ganges and Yellow are effected , this would trigger a very different behaviour in the subcontinent.

on to another plane of discussion,

There is a pattern again, the economic behaviour hitting one after the another and the latest of Dubai will have a serious impact on our friendly neighbour. If china revals that it is a Donkey and not a cow that gives milk we are looking at a invasion scenario that existed in the 1500.

We will end up being the best of the worst as of today !!!!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 01 Dec 2009 03:16

Sudden reversals of river flows are unlikely unless, there is instantaneous slippage of the crustal plates. Even magnetic pole reversals are unlikely to affect water flows very much - although may reduce atmospheric cover of lethal radiation, and may allow abonormal heating from solar flares that reach earth.

Can Dubai be fixed by simply attacking India? Or the Chinese economic loopholes filled up by Indian resources? After the initial "nationalim mobilization" distraction value, the war has to be won. A much greater likelihood is the reckless initiation of Jihad by TSP with underhand backing by PRC.

The Obamaic warning to TSP is on the one hand an admittance that TSP is out of control from USA, as well as reassuring Indian "public" (and do the politicaly needful to protect GOI) to compensate for "PRC interests in AFG" cues.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 01 Dec 2009 04:08

brihaspati wrote:Sudden reversals of river flows are unlikely unless, there is instantaneous slippage of the crustal plates. Even magnetic pole reversals are unlikely to affect water flows very much - although may reduce atmospheric cover of lethal radiation, and may allow abonormal heating from solar flares that reach earth.
.

well the drying up of the glaciers and the alteration of snow formation in the hymalayas could trigger one ,

brihaspati wrote: Can Dubai be fixed by simply attacking India? Or the Chinese economic loopholes filled up by Indian resources? After the initial "nationalim mobilization" distraction value, the war has to be won. A much greater likelihood is the reckless initiation of Jihad by TSP with underhand backing by PRC.

Obama's warning to TSP is on the one hand an admittance that TSP is out of control from USA, as well as reassuring Indian "public" (and do the politicaly needful to protect GOI) to compensate for "PRC interests in AFG" cues.

Well it will not alter Dubai but this would bring in more fodder in TSP. Obama's warning as we intepret it could be a lip service . we will never know what really happened. Zardari's days are any way numbered, US still would need to rely on TSP for transits they have not opened another alternative route. they have opened another front i.e IRan which would put the road constructed by India un-occupied for some time

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 02 Dec 2009 03:16

With respect to both PRC and TSP, we need to explore carefully the difference between "deterrence" and "defence". The fundamental confusion in our military doctrine seems to be the inability to distinguish between the two when and where it should be.

Deterrence can be part of a national defence plan, and defence can be part of a deterrence. However, deterrence contains the possibility of aggressive action or subversion against an enemy, whose continued existence itself is a potential threat for defence of "homeland" or "civilization". Defence on the other hand gives primacy only to containment of the enemy - keeping enemy out of a protected territory. Defence is more reactive.

Deterrence has taken on the association of pure retaliation because of the extensive use of the term in the context of the Cold War. However, deterrence should be thought of outisde of the Cold War straight jacket. For India deterrence is not only about just defending India's borders, but subvert the very existence of regimes in PRC and TSP whose continuance in power means weakening of India's defence.

Democratic movements should be "encouraged" in PRC. Uighurs and Tibetans encouraged to have their independent nations. But the tricky bit about PRC is not to jeopardize the "democrats" by doing something that forces them to adopt ultra-nationalist positions in order to neutralize the accusations of "betrayal", almost surely likely from the CPC.

As for TSP, we need to think of provoking subversively for them to attack. Destruction of the key social groups and leadership that are behind the Jihad mobilization have to be the target. And incorporation of the land and its people into India is needed so that the society and the territory can be effectively controlled and immunized against continued external manipulation. As long as internationally recognized "national entity" of TSP exists, it will have all the negotiating power and bargaining power to extract nuisance value from external forces against India.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 02 Dec 2009 03:54

My topic may be out of thread continuity.
The problems cannot be allowed to continue as there is no willingness to solve. One has to solve either way sooner rather than leter. This is essential for many strategic issues in India.

For example Telangana is not a stalemate. It is possible to address and solve the issue on the one hand taking the concerns of the Telangana people. Everyone speaks of the same language and also it is not going to be two different states or Hindutva groups. Certainly Congress will come to power if TRS and Congress will join together. At times rumours can stop such developmental initiative.

Even the capital issue can be solved by sharing it as a capital for both states until another one is found for each state.

It is time that Congress realises this and weakens TRS by granting the state for the people's demands.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Dec 2009 04:00

What is your interest in creation of Telengana?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 02 Dec 2009 04:11

Why stick to the old linguistic/ethnicity based state concept? Nowadays the free breeze of "aniti-divisive-progroms" is flowing. Why divide people on the basis of language and ethnicity? After all aren't all dissent for "separatism" of varuous degrees arise from "economic deprivation" and "lack of development"? If economics is the main force - why not consider reorganization of states on the basis of better economic integration, productivity and efficiency? Is any new "state" to be created consistent with such "economic" criteria?

We should think "development" as identity. Avoid reinforcing linguistic/ethnic/cultural identity separation.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 02 Dec 2009 05:17

joshvajohn wrote:My topic may be out of thread continuity.
The problems cannot be allowed to continue as there is no willingness to solve. One has to solve either way sooner rather than leter. This is essential for many strategic issues in India.

For example Telangana is not a stalemate. It is possible to address and solve the issue on the one hand taking the concerns of the Telangana people. Everyone speaks of the same language and also it is not going to be two different states or Hindutva groups. Certainly Congress will come to power if TRS and Congress will join together. At times rumours can stop such developmental initiative.

Even the capital issue can be solved by sharing it as a capital for both states until another one is found for each state.

It is time that Congress realises this and weakens TRS by granting the state for the people's demands.

Please note that in recent elections TRS was shown to be fringe party with no support from majority of people. So a party which cannot get 5% by itself makes fuss and asks for separate state you cannot grant that.

As for grievances, see Karimnagar is rice bowl of AP now. None of districts in Rayalaseema can claim that status even in the future. A lot of Telengana grievances are fake or at least not extraordinary than other districts face to warrant any special status.
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... LkSSroAn0=

In recent Hyderabad municipal elections TDP had strong showing which could translate to 9 assembly seats vs 1 seat it won in April/May in that area. Now that is the reason for resurrection of fuss by TRS and Congress to lay groundwork for next elections as they have rightly thought TDP will not truck with TRS in next elections so they are going back to YSR 2004 strategy of using TRS against TDP.

It is important to note that many of internal problems (e.g Telengana in AP, MNS in MH, Godhra in Gujarat, Psuedo-secularism against Hindus) are manufactured crises with congress at forefront for creating such crises. It is not one has to solve these problems but one should question the creation of the problems.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 03 Dec 2009 15:39

If only Unkil was ready to accommodate Russia in Afg, the situation can still change drastically.

India builds up army on pak border, invades Northern areas, pak withdraws its army from af-pak and deploys on eastern frontier... Unkil screws afpak, crosses durrand line and cleans the area.. within half year, things start getting clean and shiny. The moment unkil decides to cross durrand line, baluchis and pashtoons will declare independence..

Of course, i forgot about PRC... If PRC can strike a deal for Iran-Afg-China pipeline... Access to IOR can be given by a India-PRC deal through India...

if onlee...

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 03 Dec 2009 21:57

That is why PRC wants Kashmir

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 04 Dec 2009 02:34

I do not want to divert continuity with other lines of arguments here.
Why am I interested in the creation of Telangana?

Because I wish to see an India which is divided not on the basis of language which Nehru did in a confusing way!

Secondly to see those areas which are neglected in terms of development do now on their own.

Thirdly smaller states are easy to administer rather than big ones.

For example there are a few states such as in Tamil Nadu - Southern districts are completely neglected in terms of development. If it better to divide the state into two upto Tiruchi.

In Karnataka north feels neglected. It is not keeping a kind of hatred division rather for development and for decentralisation of the power it is essential. Even Maharastra has to be thought in this way. So that linguism does not prevail as the dominant factor of divison.

Then the question remains who will pay for the new states andtheir systems? But for the sake of development it does not matter to see this as investment and get the revnues back.

The centre needs to give more power to the states in sharing their tax revenues. Smaller states are better for management and development in future.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Dec 2009 03:03

joshvajohn wrote:

In Karnataka north feels neglected. It is not keeping a kind of hatred division rather for development and for decentralisation of the power it is essential.

Have you been there. It has the maximum number of representatives from that region in the assembly. It is the congress policy which created the neglect.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 04 Dec 2009 03:10

PRC issues are likely to be as follows

(1) "Droughts" : There are plenty of discussions on how PRC will divert their "huge" water resources to the northern loess - whihc is the most "fertile". Without getting into debates over the reality of the "fertility" - the whole prospect stands on the stability of the precipitation pattern over entire East Asia. Although trends are not yet very clear, there are increasing concerns about the intensification of centuries spanning mega-droughts. If droughst increase, water levels will fall below populationa sustaibality levels. Typically, in Chinese history - such droughts heralded changes of regimes, shrinking of "Plains Chinese" claims over or ability to defend peripheral regions.

(2) "Financial mess" : this is much speculated upon. Although attention is being focused on supposed problems with dollar reserves, the main problem is not currency reserves. Main problem is the export oriented growth model. The rapidity of Chinese growth depends crucially on other rapidly growing economies. Here China has started to diversify from it previous ties with the realtively slow-growth economies of EU and USA. But this diversification has two serious problems : either it goes into areas that are "sinks" of capital only currently, and will need decades of infrastrucrtural and educational investments. Or China has to avoid partciular economies because of political ambitions - like that of India.

(3) "Sustainability of basic consumption" : here the problems are that the lifestyle being promoted is much more energy and food resoucres (or primary factor inputs) intensive than the system was traditionally used to. Extracting such resources from abroad to balance expectations will get increasingly costly in many different ways.

(4) "Imbalance in social expectations" : the vision of prosperity that has been constructed, and the western motifs being placed socially, are actually quite radical turnaround from a scoiety brought up on social regimentation. Moreover expectations, once unleashed, are beyond control and are not subject to central plans. Any bottlenecks in distribution will become potential explosion points. There will be two basic uncontrollable trends - one a harking back to Maoist "conservatism" an d"social engineering". The other is an "ultra-democratic" East-European type trend. Both are sure to clash first in the ideological and then in the political sphere.

(5) "triangular competition in power centre" : the PRC stands on essentially three pillars. These are the CPC, the PLA, and the "cult of the individual". Even though there will be perhaps lots of protests about "cult of the individual" having been replaced by "collective leadership", communism generally almost always relies on an individual to resolve leadership contradictions within an essentially non-democratic setup.

Problem is that PRC no longer has any scenario which can give rise to a "legend". The legendary generation is dying out - anyone who could be raised to the status of the "divine emperor" - last came from the legends of the Long March, and the subsequent clockwise push against the Japanese and Chiang. So there is an acute lack of "individuals" who could fit the shoes of the third pillar. Such an individual has to have sufficient "pull" independent of both the party as well as the PLA to be effective.

In the absence of this balancer, the contradictions and competition between the PLA and CPC is problematic. One way is for the CPC to essentially bribe the PLA - by allocating more resources to the military. However, in the absence of a "divine emperor", there is always the danger that the military becomes over ambitious and someone within the PLA begins to feel the need for a new "divine emperor" enjoying the support of the army.

However allocating more resources to the army will also bring attendant corruption problems in a system not used to competitive performance for a long time. This brings a clash of interests between the CPC and PLA, with both splitting up along "beneficiaries" and "non-beneficiaries" of corruption.

(6) "ethnic fractures" : always shows up when the basic control of the central authority in the domain of cultural hegemony weakens. The CPC weakened the "cult of Mao/Maoism" in order for the successors of Mao to win their internal party power struggle over factions that derived their legitimacy from Mao. But Maoism itself had sought to replace earlier religious faiths and philosophies. So unwittingly, CPC leaders of the Deng faction created a "faith vacuum" when they did not replace Maoism by a new ideology of "values". The "values" of "western style consumption" does not necessarily fill-up all the ideological gaps.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 04 Dec 2009 03:21

Does anyone have a theory on why NDTV is stoking up the whole Swiss minarets issue in India? I am posting it here because their behaviour is deliberate and sinister in light of the situation in India and Indias neighbourhood.
They are trying to provoke a riot

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 04 Dec 2009 03:57

Its more about reassuring IM and the Deobandis. By campaigning early on, that "taking the Swiss" road is "dangerous" - and if they can show that any protests against any demand to "increase heights" or exapanding constructions, will cause "riots/bloodshed" then a solid campaign and excuse can be established to allow such extensions. This wins, hopefully, assured votes.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 04 Dec 2009 04:39

Whoa.. makes sense..They want to set a precedent lest folks in India get strange ideas

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 04 Dec 2009 15:11

joshvajohn wrote:

In Karnataka north feels neglected. It is not keeping a kind of hatred division rather for development and for decentralisation of the power it is essential.

Acharya wrote: Have you been there. It has the maximum number of representatives from that region in the assembly. It is the congress policy which created the neglect.

Absolutely correct.
The Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti (MES), which in the fifties agitated for the induction of Belgaum into MH, was found to have received funds from the CM"s Relief Funds of Maharashtra about 3 years back. Unfortunately, can't find the link now. An aam aadmi filed a RTI on MH CM"s Relief Fund. At that point, the then CM of MH, Vilasrao Deshmukh refused to let the information be given.

Later it was found that lakhs of Rupees were transferred to a front end organisation of MES. Look at the irony of it all. For years, Congress CMs of MH and KT were holding talks on "border issue", all the while funding the MES.

First , deprive the region , promote a nearby area, create discontent, fund the party in the area of discontent. In other parts, claim that the "discontented will secede" and ride into power. Jai Ho.

In MH, MNS makes it for Congress.
In AP, its TRS which fools the people and also Praja Rajya with Lok Satta which divide the votes..
In KT, KRV will have bright future.
In GUJ, Mahagujarat Janata Party will definitely spoil a few seats in Dec'12.
In TN, DMDK will only emerge bigger.

Divide the opposition , win the polls.
Its all fair in politics. Time, the opposition quit whining and made some real moves.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Dec 2009 23:57

JJ, Can we take this matter in other threads and not here?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2009 04:57

The sectarian conflicts around Ludhiana appear to be increasingly frequent. The Telengana agitation is also being revived. I am less inclined to believe that the Congress will play around with such stuff, thinking they can control it in the end. Or it could be a case of the forest fire started first to clear out a grassland, getting out of control.

Any "northern" conflict, especially in the plains arc, is risky and provides opportunities for "outsiders". Any background and potential for this particular conflict?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Dec 2009 03:00

It could be a difficult trap being set at Copenhagen for MMSji to escape from. PRC is temporarily going to get along with India for bargaining purposes. But PRC is a dictatorship which can impose enormous costs on its society for short and long term economic or political advantages. India cannot.

The political costs of accepting any compromises could be unbearable for the Congress government. So this is going to be hard dilemma. Financial and "technology' compensation could be part of the package deal. But how far are European "green tech" going to be economically feasible for India to maintain?

Why cannot India propose its own "climate change response" agenda? Based on its own needs and experiences? Even a counter proposal for the "developed" countries to adopt! I have dabbled in a lot of green tech "used" in EU. The basic ideas are sound - but based on an economy, and infrastructure that is completely different in certain key ingredients compared to India.

India needs to have its own, completely self-sufficient programme to tackle climate-change if any. India needs to have its own team of scientists doing independent research on local data, and not connected to Pachauri's IPCC.

Under the current international ganging up, it is India who seems most likely to suffer and bear the majority of the costs of adjustment - even bear the costs for TSP and BD.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Dec 2009 23:43

Just announced Telangana as sep state. What's the verdict here

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 10 Dec 2009 00:02

Jarita wrote:Just announced Telangana as sep state. What's the verdict here

It is sad day for AP and India if it happens. What it means is all these days it is drama of Congress to create violence in AP so they can now yield to deliberations on Telengana state.

If Congress is thinking of splitting, it means they also are planning on splitting Karnataka *. (There is call for Greater Rayalaseema with Bellary included. Northern Karnataka district could be merged into MH.)

*This way they can break TDP and BJP at the same time in Southern states.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 10 Dec 2009 00:34

What is more ominous is this is in principle agreement with creation of harit-pradesh in UP.. Vidarbha might follow the suite. The maoist region (if telengana happens) will of three newly formed states Jharkhand, chhattisgarh and Telangana.. Is this a centre's policy of administrative containment of maoists?

How is to be viewed in context of India's preparations towards decisive moves vis-a-vis PRC and TSP? Is this ongoing reorganization related to the moves India is trying to make outside? OR is it in preparation of some move which are being planned in Beijing OR Isloo?

The economy needs to grow at near 10% per annum for next decade; only then India can continue to hold a trump-card of West's potential alternative saviour. Will this give some breathing time to India's COIN measures in the region? Will this reduce the support of TRS supporters to maoists? or will it be increased? The BC and OBC factor too is important in garnering support for TRS. How much susceptible are BC and OBC of this region to EJs?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 10 Dec 2009 01:04

All thanks to bevakoof BJP that can only look ahead as far as their noses.
The same bumbling resulted in openning up the kimono on media and other strategic areas of the economy.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 10 Dec 2009 01:09

Chiron wrote:Will this reduce the support of TRS supporters to maoists? or will it be increased? The BC and OBC factor too is important in garnering support for TRS. How much susceptible are BC and OBC of this region to EJs?

You got everything wrong there with respect to TRS. There is no support of TRS to maoists. It was Congress that had under-hand understanding with Maoists in 2004 elections. BC/OBC aspect is not relevant for TRS or Telengana movement or to EJs.

This seems to be much sinister plan by congress within internal politcs of India. Geopolitical implications are also there with respect to making individual states within India weak so central heavy-handedness can be applied.

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 02:39

Jarita wrote:All thanks to bevakoof BJP that can only look ahead as far as their noses.
The same bumbling resulted in openning up the kimono on media and other strategic areas of the economy.

Jarita ji BJP supports formation of newer states as a matter of policy but with the caveat that state assembly should pass a "Unanimous" resolution to the effect. They may have made mistakes but clearly they are in no position to control the Telangana imbroglio in any meaningful way. I would suggest calling them "bevakoof" may be justified in other conditions but clearly here they were following a set policy and were anyways a fringe player.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 10 Dec 2009 05:26

A smaller state can mean economically weaker state. This can mean opportunity to make the state level regional forces dependent on central largesse. However what is most interesting and intrguing, is that, this is Andhra. If it was totally a Congress initiative to split AP, then it appears politically unnecessary. For, AP is more or less firmly in Congress "pocket" with solid connections to various electorally important religious and caste groups. If the electoral angle has to be justified, then we have to assume that the centre has recently begun to suspect the "loyalty" of the regional satraps. But that only deepens the mystery if true.

Accommodating finer and finer subdivisions of identity - and basing entitlements on those subdivisions, does not go towards integration. It only creates eligibility for claims of distinction and demands for resources not sustainable by the overall economy. Or only at the cost of exploiting other parts.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 10 Dec 2009 12:08

For those of you thinking 'if someone needs a smaller state whats the harm in giving it?' You are missing the nuances here.

1. The creation of a smaller state will mean lesser resources (police force etc) to fight the Maoists. This is suicidal. Example: The increased impotency of the state in combating Maoists after the creating of Jharkand and Chattisgarh.

2. Hyderabadi Muslims and Andhras with economic interests in Hyderabad now demand a separate/UT for Hyderabad. This means a perennial Muslim govt in the heart of India controlling an emerging powerhouse of the country. A free gift to the Islamo-fascists. The very thing the founding fathers wanted to avoid by making Hyderabad the capital of the larger AP state.

I can talk about the unfairness to the Andhra and Rayalaseema peoples but thats a different discussion suffice to say the only ones to gain are 2 of the 3 Ms aligned against the national interests. The third M is known to be never to far behind..remember YSR.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 10 Dec 2009 13:04

Great day for AP if all elected people resigned for united AP.

About 50 MLAs are resigning. More to go.

All elected people (MLAs, MLCs, MPs, Municiple Corporators) in Krishna and Guntur districts are resigning.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 10 Dec 2009 13:34

ShyamSP wrote:Great day for AP if all elected people resigned for united AP.

About 50 MLAs are resigning. More to go.

All elected people (MLAs, MLCs, MPs, Municiple Corporators) in Krishna and Guntur districts are resigning.

90 MLAs resigned (39 Congress 38 TDP 13 PRP)

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 10 Dec 2009 21:34

Problem is that there is very little clarity of thought around this state split amongst the Indian intellectuals. I see people throw words like federalism etc around which are totally nonsensical during this context. What is important is what will ensure Indias sustainability and stability in the long run, even if short run goals are compromised.
Fancy labels and concepts mean nothing. Too many pple are caught up with Friedman, Stigler and other concepts and labels which may have been right for another society but are irrelevant for India.

Right now we don't need internal distractions. The center and country have to be strong to face international threats and opportunities. Our so called leaders have just dribbled that away for the time being. All energies will now be dealing with all sorts of state demands.

Sonia is either a fool or malicious and BJP is definately opportunistic and foolish. Sonia is being advised by Ahmed Patel and Querishi right

This nonsense could not have come at a worse time for India

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 10 Dec 2009 21:55

What i can see is this splitting has started a chain reaction.

1. Gurkha land and Mithilanchal
2. Vidharbha
3. Telangana would spawn two more cases. One in the north with Vizag as capital and one in the south with Chitoor as the capital.
4. karnataka splitting into two
5. TN could also be split into two thereby ensuring Peace between MK's sons
6. Harit pradesh and Buledkhand

I am not sure if these be benefitial to yuvaraj in the long run but the other issues are.

1. Cricket being opened to Pakis
2. Track II talks in Spore.

We seem to be heading into a Abyss,