Indian Interests

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Dec 2011 07:06

A quota planned for ‘backward’ Muslims, here’s how and why

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Dec 2011 07:16

FDI in retail
The cabinet decision to allow 51 per cent foreign direct investment in multi-brand retail, now suspended, has been greatly discussed in the Urdu press.

Kolkata-based daily, Azad Hind, in its editorial on November 28, writes: “This issue has been under discussion right from the days of the NDA government. Therefore, it is wrong to say that the Manmohan Singh-led UPA decided to allow FDI in a hurry, anxious about the falling rupee and rising prices. There is a clear need for foreign direct investment, and for industries to be set up, without which economic opportunities will be limited... (But) the government should go forward keeping in mind the interests of our own small businesses.” Hyderabad-based daily Munsif, in its editorial on December 2, takes a dim view of FDI in retail: “The retail trade sector is of concern neither to the ruling party nor the opposition. It is connected with the employment of lakhs of common people. If this sector is also handed over to foreign investors, these jobs would be displaced and the families dependent on them would be destroyed... The government should rehabilitate those who stand to lose their jobs.”

Another daily published from Hyderabad and Bangalore, Siasat, writes in its editorial on December 1: “If the government wanted, it could have tried to create a consensus at an all-party meeting before a cabinet decision. Even UPA allies were not consulted... Instead of paying any attention to the real problems faced by people, the government floated the FDI balloon (FDI ka shosha), intending to disrupt Parliament’s winter session.”

US-Pakistan rift

Commenting on the NATO attack on two posts in Pakistan that killed over 20 soldiers, Rashtriya Sahara writes in its November 28 editorial: “The US has repeatedly demonstrated the extent to which it can go to achieve its objectives... While attacking these posts, the US did not think of its friendship with Pakistan or the consequences for their strategic partnership.”

The paper adds: “The anger of the Pakistani people against the US has intensified after the Abbottabad operation. They consider the American attitude an attack on their self-respect. There is annoyance within the ranks of the Pakistan army as well... The steps taken by the Pakistani government on the Afghanistan border, following the attack, can add to the problems of the US and the NATO.”

Siasat, in its editorial on November 26 writes: “NATO forces are mindlessly killing innocent citizens in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border areas. And this is being done by an America that preaches humanitarian values. NATO should stop such acts, which can destabilise the entire South Asian region.”

Assault on our values

While condemning the recent physical attack on the Union agriculture minister, Sharad Pawar, Siasat writes on November 25: “Although this incident is regrettable, it could be a glimpse of popular anger against corruption... There is no place for such incidents in a democracy. But the government will have to understand the significance of this despicable act. Unless the government comes out with an effective and unflinching strategy against corruption, it is not possible to put an end to this type of evil... (but) there is need to work within the parameters of the law.”

Shakeel Shamsi, the editor of Inquilab (published from Mumbai, Delhi, Kanpur, Bareilly and Lucknow), writes in his November 26 column: “There is no precedent for such acts in our country. People’s anger against politicians should be expressed through public meetings, demonstrations and rallies, as is the democratic norm. But the glut of TV channels and the free publicity they get is a goad for those who resort to such actions.”

Azad Hind writes on November 25: “Harvinder Singh had briefed the media about his intentions before attacking former Union minister Sukh Ram. Even before attacking Sharad Pawar, he had briefed the media about his plan and complained that they do not cover such news items adequately. It is surprising that the security officials were unaware of these plans.”

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 09 Dec 2011 11:24

Muppalla wrote:Swamy tweets:
If I informed you that one candidate for PM is a homosexual with a British partner resident in Delhi, would that be invasion of privacy ?
Who could be this?

It could be something similar to how every human rights activist has a white partner. Like Aung San Suu Kyi, not to mention erstwhile royals of Sikkim, etc.

Invasion of national interests for sure. What makes the west do this invasion jobs?

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 09 Dec 2011 23:20

They want to delink Islam from India

We can see attempts to "purge" Islam of Indian influences...

Islamic reform is primarily about 'purging' indigenous influences, taking Muslims away from the Indian cultural landscape towards an Arabian cultural model . De-coupling Islam with its Indian environs has consequences for cultural pluralism . The challenge is daunting as the project of Islamic reform is common to both Deobandis and Barelwis.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Dec 2011 23:28

johneeG wrote:Hindu civilization, the mighty majestic elephant, has been tamed and brainwashed into believing that it is a dog.

Depending on who you are, it is either very funny or extremely tragic to see the elephant imitating a dog to please the 'master/mistress'.

+1 That is why it looks so ugly for the Hindu doer and so scary for a non-Hindu observer.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 10 Dec 2011 18:39

X posting from EU news thread

Climate talks: Jayanthi Natarajan applauded for stirring speech in Durban

Termed deal-breaker, India takes on rich nations

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 10 Dec 2011 19:16

New genetic research debunks Aryan invasion theory

Here is the original article published in American journal of human genetics

http://download.cell.com/AJHG/pdf/PIIS0 ... diate=true

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 10 Dec 2011 19:41

From blog http://hindusamhati.blogspot.com

Hindu villagers in Sankrail, Howrah face worst link

The Hindu village, encircled by antipathetic Muslim villages, is getting more and more vulnerable and two successive Islamic assaults have scared it on the whole. While one of them is the assault on Hindu houses on Muharram (December 06, 2011) by Muslims moving forward with the Taziya, the second is the destruction of Shitalatala temple (on December 08, 2011) in the village by Muslim rowdies, known for their rampage in the neighborhood.

Some details of 2 FIRs filed too.

Statement on Mograhat Incident link

to gloss over that the very life of 25 people (16 were employees of WB State Electricity Board and the rest were Police personnel) were in great danger, as the mob had surrounded them after blocking all the connecting roads

This when personnel were inquiring about loss of electricity, were encircled and later lead to firing.

Armed Islamic gangs run riot in Kulpi; BDO Office, Police station ransacked link

an armed gang of Islamic felons daring to invade the Hindu village of Jeliabati, P.S. Kulpi, Dist. 24 Paraganas (South) on October 23, 2011 at dead night
...
While one group of armed Islamic assailants was busy in the pillage (thorough destruction) of the police station of Kulpi along with the BDO office, another group was concentrating on misdemeaning with womenfolk in the police quarter.

So it begins..

Does Jibantala ink Hindu obituary in Bengal to begin with? link

What has not been mentioned in the mainstream media (or expunged intentionally) is that Kutubuddin Khan was the leader of infamous Kargil Army – known for persecuting Hindus in the environs in all possible ways – be it extortion, kidnapping or murder.
...
Kutub was nabbed red-handed, almost 500 villagers of Kalibari including women (all Muslims) encircled the police team and in a while snatched their rifles and started thrashing them inhumanely.

The mob provided the cover and defense.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Dec 2011 01:05

Jayanthi taking a spirited fight into the 'enemy' camps. The rich countries are just too powerful. She is getting applause, alas even a politician who loses elections gets an applause from his base. How long will China, Brazil, SoAf and India stay together?

Mrs Natarajan's strong words received huge applause and a standing ovation on a day when India was described as a stumbling block to the talks here. “It is a factual statement, it is an emotional statement,” the minister told reporters later. Mrs Natarajan, during her speech, asserted that India was not a major emitter. “I am from India and I represent 1.2 billion people,” she said. “My country has a tiny per capita carbon footprint of 1.7 ton and our per capita GDP is even lower.”

Added: Sorry I missed the link earlier, here it is: http://thestatesman.net/index.php?optio ... 6&catid=35

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Dec 2011 03:18

SwamyG, link please. context helps.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Dec 2011 20:46

As per Hindustan Times India gets its way as climate summit in Durban closes

Natarajan's speech ensured that India's main concern the inclusion of the concept of equity in the fight against climate change - became part of the package.

The package said all countries would be part of a global pact to control greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. Natarajan ensured there was a third option -- "an agreed outcome with legal force" -- apart from protocol or a legal instrument.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Dec 2011 21:24

vishvak wrote:From blog http://hindusamhati.blogspot.com

Hindu villagers in Sankrail, Howrah face worst link
The Hindu village, encircled by antipathetic Muslim villages, is getting more and more vulnerable and two successive Islamic assaults have scared it on the whole. While one of them is the assault on Hindu houses on Muharram (December 06, 2011) by Muslims moving forward with the Taziya, the second is the destruction of Shitalatala temple (on December 08, 2011) in the village by Muslim rowdies, known for their rampage in the neighborhood.
Some details of 2 FIRs filed too.

Statement on Mograhat Incident link
to gloss over that the very life of 25 people (16 were employees of WB State Electricity Board and the rest were Police personnel) were in great danger, as the mob had surrounded them after blocking all the connecting roads
This when personnel were inquiring about loss of electricity, were encircled and later lead to firing.

Armed Islamic gangs run riot in Kulpi; BDO Office, Police station ransacked link
an armed gang of Islamic felons daring to invade the Hindu village of Jeliabati, P.S. Kulpi, Dist. 24 Paraganas (South) on October 23, 2011 at dead night
...
While one group of armed Islamic assailants was busy in the pillage (thorough destruction) of the police station of Kulpi along with the BDO office, another group was concentrating on misdemeaning with womenfolk in the police quarter.
So it begins..

Does Jibantala ink Hindu obituary in Bengal to begin with? link
What has not been mentioned in the mainstream media (or expunged intentionally) is that Kutubuddin Khan was the leader of infamous Kargil Army – known for persecuting Hindus in the environs in all possible ways – be it extortion, kidnapping or murder.
...
Kutub was nabbed red-handed, almost 500 villagers of Kalibari including women (all Muslims) encircled the police team and in a while snatched their rifles and started thrashing them inhumanely.
The mob provided the cover and defense.

The Hindu villagers know that in a conflict with Muslims - the state admin, independent of whichever gov is in power - will support the muslims in general. Moreover, successive govs and parties in power have legitimized the flow of Muslims from BD (and Bihar too) for electoral purposes.

In many districts along the border, the local demographics inc collusion with both Left and non-Left parties have given an electoral edge to the Muslims. Hence Hindu Bengalis cannot go for redressal through the electoral route.

Additionally, from the time of buildup to the partition, Hindu Bengalis in vulnerable areas know this very well - that this rashtryia protection of Islamist criminality and agenda of Islamist spread, also has not just regional gov component. This also had solid support from the centre - as in Nehruji keeping mum over Islamist violence in Bengal, and urging "peace" while taking personal interest in ordering shooting "mobs" when it came to shooting Hindu "mobs" against muslims in Bihar [that too when it was apparent that the Muslims had been stockpiling arms in preparation and were defending themselves]. Nehru did it under the excuse that law and order was a "state problem" and "centre" had nothing to do with it - but this excuse was given when it came to Bengal onlee. Apparently the same logic did not apply to Bihar.

But Nehruji at least had the tremendous personal integrity and highest order of character not even to acknowledge this selective application of logic, while later regimes openly justify this selectivity and specificity under the excuse of "secularism".

To this there is the culture of positive discrimination which affects judicial activism and the special-above-commons-judiciary [those who can onlee be judged by their equals and hence no accountability to lesser mortals] - which ultimately corrupts and subverts the very basics of justice. Positive discrimination theology taken without sense of proportion, paralyzes state and judiciary in allowing criminal crossing of "limits" by protected communities or their organizations.

Thus in all respects, from the judiciary - from the police, from the state, from political parties which are too large to be pressurized by small isolated communities, from the provincial as well as the full might of the rashtra at the federal level - these Hindu Bengali villagers know and feel that they have no fall-back option, no source of redressal. Even the world opinion dominated by the judaeo-Christian-Islamist bleeding hearts against crimes against humanity, would hesitate to come to their favour if they come to know that it would be a matter of choice between the Islamic versus the pagan Hindu. So!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Dec 2011 21:34

in this day and time how hard is it to get cellphone vids of the events ?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Dec 2011 21:46

Probably not too difficult. But if the spots being referred to are really those where things happened - then the community would not be well-off. Moreover, the mere presence of such devices would attract unwanted attention. Some of these people literally live in a state of siege. Try going as an outsider into these domains. Even journo's usually do not dare go in easily. [Of course their news bosses would thrash thems oundly if they write or report anything that goes agains Islam]. The howrah and 24-pargans area being mentioned - are literally like a network of fortified settlements. Especially the muslim ones. You will be questioned - first politely and curiously under cover of standard village practice and hospitality, then you would be forced to accept tea, and you will find it fdifficult to proceed any further unless you have the mullah's grapevine sanction from before.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Dec 2011 22:43

will Mamata speak up against this Muslim fanaticism or is she too compromised to do that? perhaps it will require a more overt "Hindu" radicalism than Mamata's to respond to this aggression?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Dec 2011 23:44

She cannot. Not at this stage when she still needs the congrez and the congrez needs her. Anyone who goes in favour of these Hindu villagers - will be joyfully targeted by the other two [among TMC, Left, congrez]. Secularism==EJ/Islamism protection, national media, external pressures, and the peculiar Bengali fracture between the urban and the rural [especially the dominant voice that knows how to use agitprop and also owns the tools, are urban and in an ideologically auto-narcotic cocoon of their own] - means she cannot do anything if she wanted to.

Although she might not have had very clear conceptual antipathy towards Islamism. She has no reason to. Her roots are in 70's congrez and my personal light-hearted opinion was that she had fallen into the wrong party [just as many left leaders had landed up in the wrong party and should have been in congrez after all]. But to understand her limitations in this regard, we need to understand these possible profiles and options for her when she was forming her political beliefs.

The one thing that can modify this is her habit of keeping one ear to the ground, which at least for me marked her out as a potential winner [in the days my colleagues were lampooning her epithet of a daughter-of-fire!]. This same feature in her - might queer the pitch one day in her secularism. But by that time the politics of the region and the societal dynamics will have changed rather rapidly out of control of all four contenders for space there - the parliamentary left [who have started their classic internal feud/backbiting/purges after overt failures, the TMC who are being infiltrated by both opportunists from ex-left and the forever-vague-congrez, congrez which has always been a Delhi-satrapian party there and will always be a has-been seen-better-days party, Maoists of whom less said now the better].

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Dec 2011 07:24

Muslim quota part of larger plan, govt may cover ‘most backwards’

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Dec 2011 07:24

Muslim quota part of larger plan, govt may cover ‘most backwards’

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Dec 2011 08:27

Needs a reply
http://www.guernicamag.com/features/328 ... r_12_1_11/

The Iron Lady
By Shubh Mathur December 2011
The eleven-year fast of Irom Sharmila and the battle for freedom in India’s borderlands.

India’s hidden wars of counterinsurgency, are coeval and coterminous with the sixty-four years of Indian independence and cannot be dismissed as temporary lapses from democratic rule. They represent a consistent policy for dealing with the religious and ethnic minorities who inhabit the northeast borderlands. That these policies have rarely been challenged—despite the existence in India of a free press, an independent judiciary and thriving civil society institutions—speaks of a consensus in Indian society that cuts across political lines. Indian acquiescence in the maintenance of authoritarian rule in the border regions overlooks the very real danger that the principle of absolute power will not remain confined there, but has in fact already moved to the Indian heartland, as a method for dealing with tribal and agricultural populations who stand in the way of “economic development.”

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Dec 2011 09:31

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=17004

Indian-origin British lawyer fights for Kargil martyr

Twelve years after the Kargil conflict between India and Pakistan, a new 'battle' is on - to get justice for an Indian Army officer who was tortured by Pakistani troops for days before his mutilated body was handed back.

British lawyer of Indian origin Jas Uppal has launched an international campaign to highlight the plight of Captain Saurabh Kalia, who was killed, along with five other soldiers, in the 1999 conflict in Jammu and Kashmir.

She is demanding the blacklisting of Pakistan for the purpose of giving international aid.

"I am campaigning to discover the plight of the Indian prisoners of war captured and detained by Pakistan during the Indo-Pak war in the 1970s. Yet again (in Saurabh's case) the government of India failed to seek justice (at the international level)," Uppal told IANS in an interview via e-mail.

Saurabh, of the 4 Jat Regiment, was the first army officer to report incursion by the Pakistani Army on Indian soil. He and five soldiers - Sepoys Arjun Ram, Bhanwar Lal Bagaria, Bhika Ram, Moola Ram and Naresh Singh - were on a patrol of the Bajrang Post in the Kaksar sector when they were taken captive by Pakistani troops May 15, 1999.

They were tortured for weeks before being killed. Their mutilated bodies were handed over to the Indian authorities June 9, 1999.

Saurabh's father N.K. Kalia and his wife Vijaya, settled in this tea garden town, have been raising their voice against violations of human rights and brutalities and asking India to take up the issue of war crimes at the international level.

Uppal told IANS in an interview: "Now that India is a superpower it should be taking the lead in relation to human rights. It should value its security forces and its people."

She said she had reported Kalia's case to international human rights organisations like the Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch and raised the issue in Britain.

In a missive to M. Fabricant, a member of the British House of Commons, last month, Uppal said: "I am appalled to learn that the former president of Pakistan (Pervez) Musharraf, who was president of the country at the time of the Kargil incident, is a guest of this country and has been living here for some time.

"I would be grateful if you could raise the matter with our prime minister and the foreign office. Further, I hope that our government will take this case seriously and the ongoing breaches of human rights into consideration when they make aid donations to Pakistan.

Any financial aid should be subject of the country's observations and record in relation to human rights," she wrote.

In a reply to Uppal's letter, Fabricant said Nov 15: "I have, therefore, raised the issue of human rights and aid to Pakistan with Foreign and Commonwealth Office Minister Alistair Burt."

"The West has no idea about these atrocities. If they are made aware they will never support giving aid to Pakistan," said Uppal, who launched a campaign to secure the release of Indian prisoner Sarabjit Singh sentenced to death in Pakistan for spying and bombings.

Satisfied with the initiatives of Uppal, the parents of Saurabh have been pinning their hope on getting justice.

"Our only grudge with the Indian government is why is it shirking to call the atrocities committed by the Pakistani Army as war crimes and why it fails to take up the scourge at the international level," said N.K. Kalia, 63, who retired as a senior scientist from the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research.

He said the external affairs ministry informed them under the right to information act that "the government of India had conveyed the anguish and anger of the Indian people to the foreign minister of Pakistan during his visit to Delhi June 12, 1999. An aide-mémoire was also handed to Pakistan June 15, 1999. However, Pakistan denied our claims."

"This was not sufficient enough to express anguish over war crimes. We are demanding that the government highlight war crimes at international fora so that other prisoners of war do not meet the same fate as Saurabh," he said.

Saurabh, who was posted in Kargil soon after passing out of the Indian Military Academy, did not live long enough to even receive his first pay packet as an officer.

Asked by IANS if she had raised the issue of the five other Indian soldiers who were captured and killed along with Captain Kalia, Uppal said she had "mentioned ALL the soldiers".

"I only know the name of Captain Saurabh Kalia. I do not know the names of the other soldiers;so I cannot refer to them by name as I would like to do. I do not have contact with families of the other soldiers."

She added that if provided their names and family contact details, she would refer to them by their respective names.

any half decent bureaucrat in Delhi should be ashamed if they ever read this article. the ministers and top shots should lower their heads in shame. going beyond the political divides, this is an issue that every party and bureaucrat in govt should be united behind. the consistent spinelessness that is displayed in taking up and standing for the nation's rights is appalling and disgusting. something in the way that these babus are nurtured and nourished since the beginning of their careers holds them back from being aggressive on such issues.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Dec 2011 09:41

How much more damage does Congress want to do before it witehrs away.

Morgan Stanley: This Is What Will Happen In India Over The Next Two Years
GDP growth is expected to decelerate next year to the lowest level since the financial crisis
( check the slideshow)

http://www.businessinsider.com/morgan-s ... z1gI3QzLny

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2011 21:31

In fact the Red Cross in Delhi refused to give an acknowledgement that the bodies were mutilated at that time. And GOI submitted to International pressures meaning from US to hush up the case.

But very few TSP prisoners were taken after that. Some desi liberal cry-baby mentioned that in an oped in a literary review magazine.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 12 Dec 2011 21:47

Apathy of Red Cross, GOI,in this case shows clearly.Wonder who the responsible bureaucrats were, who hushed this up. The press sometimes is kept in the dark by these rascal bureaucrats, and if the press doesn't come to know, the country doesn't come to know.Wish we had more alert and young press reporters today,the reputed ones are too busy,they can be found wandering drunk outside Press club of India.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Dec 2011 22:02

Looks like a fish market

The world's biggest greenhouse gas emitters, China, the US and India, will be legally bound for the first time to cut their emissions in a new international climate change treaty to be signed by 2015 and to come into force by 2020.

The "Big Three" polluters finally agreed to a legal regime of emissions cutting at the close of the UN Climate Conference in Durban, South Africa, at 5am yesterday morning, after most observers had thought deadlock was certain. The conference outcome is a substantial achievement for the European Union, which had proposed the new treaty and wanted, and obtained, a "road map" towards it.

So India is under legal binding now.

The climate turned against India at Durban

So what exactly was the decision in Durban on emission reductions? It was two-fold. First, countries that are currently parties to the Kyoto Protocol will, after the expiry of the first commitment period in 2012, enter into a second commitment period beginning from 2013 and going up to 2019.

The second and the highly debated part relates to the nature of the new compact that would include the current Kyoto parties, the US and new entrants such as the BASIC.

INDIA A LOSER

The Indian position ever since the COP in Bali, Indonesia (2007) when the Bali Action Plan was adopted, has been that it would abide by the Action Plan to follow “measurable, reportable and verifiable” measures to effect reductions in the emission intensity of its GDP growth but would not agree to being subjected to any legally binding instrument to do so.

With the decision in Durban, this position is no longer acceptable and hence emission reductions, either absolute or in the form of intensity reduction, will no longer be allowed to be voluntary but will be governed by some form of arrangement which will have legal force. This is a development that has gone against India.

The Durban outcome has not pleased the US either. The Chief US negotiator, Mr Todd Stern, is reported to have observed “This is a significant package. None of us likes everything in it. Believe me, there is plenty the United States is not thrilled about.” Mr Stern has enough reason to be apprehensive. President Obama's efforts to have energy and climate security legislation passed by the US Senate have yielded little results so far. Not only the Republicans but a good number of Democrats are opposed to pass any such measure for fear of loss of more jobs in an already job-hit economy.

India, now, has the unenviable task of reworking its entire energy strategy. {good for the folks selling nuke fuels?} In December 2005, the Planning Commission had released an expert committee report on India's Integrated Energy Policy (the finalised report was released in 2006). The report came out with projections of the country's energy requirements up to the year 2031-32 along with likely scenarios of energy generation from various fossil fuels, nuclear power stations (present and future ones) and renewable sources with GDP growth pegged at 8 per cent annually.

It came out that by 2031-32, primary energy supply would need to grow by “3 to 4 times and electricity supply by 5 to 7 times of today's consumption.” In all the scenarios of possible sources and their contributions towards satisfying this energy demand, coal predominates to the extent of over 40 per cent with oil hovering at 28-30 per cent. Gas, as fuel, would remain with a contribution of 7-12 per cent. Clean energy sources would account for about 16 per cent only. All these projections would now need to be revisited and that won't be an easy exercise.

According to studies commissioned by the Ministry of Environment and Forests, by 2031-32, India's annual emissions of GHGs are expected to go up from an estimated 1.5 to 2 billion tonnes in 2010 to 4-7 billion tonnes in 2031. The economic and social readjustments called for by any new agreement to limit emissions are difficult to imagine.

In the face of what India had to concede inevitably at Durban, the other decisions relating to adaptation to climate change, Climate Green Fund and Transfer of Technology offer little solace. In the final analysis, as John Donne said “No man is an island”. No country is either.

The author is former Secretary, Ministry of Environment and Forests, Government of India.

The heat is on: India is clueless at climate change talks

The heat is bound to be on Jayanthi Natarajan as she returns from the Durban climate change conference having signed India onto what is being billed as a historic global agreement on cutting emissions of greenhouse gases. Critics at home, however, are bound to see the agreement as a capitulation to the demands of developed countries that emerging economies like India and China no longer be given a free pass to pollute their way to development

At Copenhagen, amidst high drama, India and China teamed up to beat back an extraordinarily hands-on effort by Barack Obama to get emerging economies to agree to legally verifiable emission cuts. At one point, Obama burst in uninvited into a meeting of the BASIC alliance and injected himself into the bareknuckle negotiations. For his interventionist efforts, he was subjected to a finger-wagging talkdown by the Chinese climate change negotiator. The air was thick with rancour, so no meaningful deal emerged from that event.

In other words, within a few days, India’s negotiating strategy had swung from one extreme to the other, and back again. And each time, it was explained away as being in India’s interests.

India’s failure to articulate a clear negotiating strategy ill-serves its interests, but it allows its leaders to claim victory, irrespective of whether they walk away from verifiable mechanisms, as in Copenhagen, or sign on, as at Durban. It allows them to roar at international conferences about their unwillingness to “sign away the rights of 1.2 billion people”, and yet within minutes sign on to a “historic” agreement. Of course, in our own interest.
{too much going, so why did India cave in}

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Dec 2011 22:36

could be pressure to "calm down" the economy. voluntarily agreeing to "emissions cuts" is basically a back door entry of steady de-industrialization. they want to stop India before it ever becomes an industrial giant.....does GoI have any clue??? useless bureaucrats. I have always believed that the whole "carbon emissions" was a nautanki designed to introduce deindustrialization as official policy of developing countries. seems like its coming true....

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Dec 2011 23:04

You asked me for link

, now I ask you for some links on your 'de-industrialization' theory. As per me, the Corporations that control this planet through the Western governments does not care about industrialization or de-industrialization. They care about profit. Their markets in the West are saturated. The rich are getting only richer. All this causes takleef to other people and the environment. It is unsustainable - adharmic. The Corporations care only when it impacts their profits. They see India as a market for their goods, which means they would desire the Indian people to have disposable income to throw at sundry things - non-essential items. A purely deindustrialized India is not good for anybody.

The only question, in my mind, is the how much of the warming is caused by humans. Scientists on both sides of the debate have gone back and forth. One thing I am sure, we humans have been polluting earth and its environment. Does Nature have withint its abilities to absorb all the junk we put out? How long do they say a plastic/thermofoam cup takes to decompose?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 13 Dec 2011 01:39

I asked you for a link on the specific article you were quoting from. the part you quoted did not have any context and it was impossible to decipher exactly what situation the lady was speaking in.

De-industrialization of America is a good example of "sabotage from within". I don't want the same to happen to India. India should have a framework which deals with environmental protection. But I am absolutely against any globalist scheme which would have un-elected foreign bureaucrats dictating to India what India CAN and CAN'T DO. that is fundamentally against my sense of "national interests".

as for links, go to google. this is not some quote from a specific article. this is a much hammered topic with specific references to the fantasies and delusions of has-been European aristocrats who work through various organisations like UN. Maurice Strong is a good starting point, if you intend to Google for stuff.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 13 Dec 2011 02:10

It was not deindustrialization that happened in USA, it was offshoring of manufacturing and services to China and India. It was profit motive and moving 'externalities' to other parts of the World.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 13 Dec 2011 03:10

semantics. when manufacturing % falls from 30% to 7% within a generation, that's called de-industrialization. and yes, it was for profit motive. the end result is the same. i'm not arguing that corporations are saints. Au-contraire, moi has been condemned as a "conspiracy peddler" who lacks "nuance" by a certain Lord of the Moon when he was active. on this one, I think you and I agree much more than disagree.

correction: it's 13% not 7%.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 13 Dec 2011 05:11

In what way was Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan a deracinated Hindu?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarvepalli_Radhakrishnan
(ref: the discussion of the Indian elite on the TSP thread).

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Dec 2011 05:14

His books give extensive evidence. He was closet athiest and closet communist (light).

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 13 Dec 2011 11:26

I personally have not read his works. the only yardstick to measure against the "founders" is what did they do when in power? were they enamored with the attitudes left behind by the British? usually, the answer to that question sums up the "deracination" aspect.

perhaps, one could argue that they were all products of their times. if so, then it is clear that "Independence" is a very much unfinished job which got stuck b/c of transfer of power to deracinated elite. either way, responsibility is on us to rectify.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 13 Dec 2011 16:11

IAF Su-30MKI crashes near Pune, pilots eject

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 13 Dec 2011 19:36

Asia's space race could turn into an arms race

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... s-race.ars

Good article on space race between India, China and Japan; and Space race, and can be cross-posted as required.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Dec 2011 19:46

A_Gupta wrote:In what way was Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan a deracinated Hindu?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarvepalli_Radhakrishnan
(ref: the discussion of the Indian elite on the TSP thread).

I read his Hindu View of Life and it is borderline (sic) secularist philosophy at best.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Dec 2011 19:53

Brinjal debacle still raw, Bt rice on course - http://business-standard.com/india/news ... 914/[quote]

Bt brinjal may have gone into the deep freezer, but that has hardly dampened the enthusiasm of Maharashtra Hybrid Seeds Co (Mahyco) from coming up with new genetically modified (GM) crops.

Mahyco now plans to introduce Bt rice and Bt okra (bhindi) for commercial production in a year’s time.

Mahyco managing director Raju Barwale says the company has followed all mandatory guidelines and has spent nearly Rs 50 crore in research and field trials in the past six years to develop this technology. It is set to send the test results to the Review Committee on Genetic Manipulation (RCGM) by June 2012.

Based on field trials, the technology will increase rice and okra yield by at least 20 per cent and 30 per cent, respectively. The estimated yield is substantially higher than the mandatory norm of 10 per cent for any new biotech genes in agriculture.

“We are very close to regulatory approval. As a first step in this direction, we are looking to submit the results of the tests and field trials with RCGM in six months. As a matter of practice, RCGM would assess whether we have followed all the government norms or not. And then, they would forward our request to the GEAC (Genetic Engineering Approval Committee) for final approval. We expect this to be completed in a year from now,” Barwale said.[/quote]

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 13 Dec 2011 19:56

Rajendra Prasad,the first President of India, is completely ignored, while Sarvepalli's birthday is celebrated every year as teacher's day. Nehru has his own children's day.

Interestingly, Indians have been celebrating Guru Purnima long before Sarvepalli was born. So, wheres the need for another teacher's day?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Dec 2011 20:07

The climate-politics must be understood also from the economic viewpoint : this is much more complex than the simplistic "it is in no one's interst to deindustrialize India - since they all need Indian buying capacity" or "complete deindustrialization".

There is a fundamental difference in the nature of the EU type economies and India/China type economies. The former is more capital intensive, higher labour and social/infrastructural cost economy. The second is less capital intensive, more labour intensive, less labour and social/infrastructural cost economy.

The current climate politics is about profitability of capital. EU is rather more advanced in industrialization of green tech compared to USA/China/India. These are typically also high capital cost products even if they are "green". In open competitive global interactions, high capital cost economies can profit only if they interact or exchange at par with less capital intensive and labour intensive economies - that are also kept lagging behind in that capital goods sector.

EU needs to keep India/China lagging behind in high-capital goods sector - and yes this can be interpreted as selective deindustrialization. In this way the nature of the market is sought to be controlled - not really seeking loss of buying power - but determining where that buying power comes from, so that the buying capacity is generated by a sector different from the seller's, and therefore maintains the marketability of the seller's product.

Ensuring the "green" specifications will prevent acceleration of high-capital intensity product industry and prevent competition to Eu guys or keep a lag [something the Brits always did - look at the industrialization-deindustrialization process followed under the empire] in sectors they occupy as niches now.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Dec 2011 20:13

Acharya wrote:His books give extensive evidence. He was closet athiest and closet communist (light).

So basically he was Baba Lal

Das.
Just in case you don't know who was Baba Lal Das:

ON the night of November 16,1993, just two days before Uttar Pradesh was to go to the polls to choose a new government in Lucknow, Baba Lal Das, former pujari of the Ramjanmabhoomi temple, was shot and critically wounded in the village of Ranipur Chaltar, police station Chavni, district Basti, some 20 kms away from Ayodhya

Baba Lal Das was in his late 40s. Born in Shringrishi, a village close to Ayodhya, he underwent his religous education at Raghunathpur in Jammu and Kashmir, and then became a pujari in a temple in Mehsana, Gujarat. After Baba Lal Das came to Ayodhya, he served for a while as the secretary of the local Communist Party of India (Marxist) unit, drawn to “their commitment to the traditional ideal of equality.”

http://www.manushi-india.org/pdfs_issue ... %20Das.pdf

{ Who put this slave of Lal as a pujari to Ramjanmabhoomi temple}

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 13 Dec 2011 20:15

Ensuring the "green" specifications will prevent acceleration of high-capital intensity product industry and prevent competition to Eu guys or keep a lag [something the Brits always did - look at the industrialization-deindustrialization process followed under the empire] in sectors they occupy as niches now.

exactly. the whole environmental regime of the UN sponsored variety is basically a framework designed and established by Europhiles who rightly fear the growth of PRC and India. they regret they couldn't do anything to USA while it was rising, but don't want to repeat that mistake with Asia....we would be foolish not to realize this.