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Incoherent low-grade spin from an ISI stooge.shaardula wrote:Hamid Mir's take on the goings on at Bonn
http://www.rediff.com/news/special/germ ... 111206.htm
OT Mark (short for Markata I believe) Katju is a pompous old fool but he is not wrong about the overall low intellectual quality of Indian journos.krithivas wrote:^^^^^^
Idiots of Rediff are gifting a pass-thru platform, without any edit controls whatsoever, for the loser of a nation (Pakistan) to spew garbage?
As global talks kicked-off to plan the future road map for Afghanistan, India on the first day of the moot accused that Pakistan is responsible of all the crises facing Afghanistan.
The Indian minister for External Affairs S.M. Krishna during his speech did not spare Pakistan aimed at seeking peace for Afghan people who suffered a lot and lost thousands of lives in decade long war.
Addressing the conference, Krishna hit hard at India’s archrival Pakistan on Afghanistan future, especially after withdrawal of combat forces in 2014.Pakistan boycotted the Bonn conference in reaction to a deadly NATO attack on its check posts that killed 24 of its soldiers.Krishna said that terrorists’ safe havens should be eliminated outside Afghan border.He said India would fully support Afghan-led and owned peace process. “We totally support the people of Afghanistan in their path of peace and condemn the act of terrorism on innocent people,” Krishna said.
( Hi Allah, no == with Afghanistan in cancelling Paki Debt)has canceled more than $11 billion in Afghanistan’s sovereign debt over the past decade, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Monday.
“During the past decade Russia has made a significant contribution to the international effort in Afghanistan. We have written off more than $11 billion of Afghanistan’s sovereign debt,” he said.
Russia also provides humanitarian aid to Afghanistan - more than 40,000 tons of wheat flour and other shipments in the past decade, worth a total of around $50 million, he said
Any links that highlight what services they have delivered to TSP of late?shiv wrote:Both Scowcroft and Brzezinski have been paid by Pakis in recent days..
He thought that the Paks and the Chinese were too mentally unstable to become a serious threat.Acharya wrote:Need to understand why!Arjun wrote:Brezinski pretty much fathered the creation of Pakistani terrorism, and the rise of China - the two biggest security threats for the US today. And the US continues to fete this idiot and turn to him for advice...!!!
Boy would I love to have such links. The reason I say that is not based on any proof, and if I were not so small and inconsequential - in the US I could get sued for slander or some such thing. What I find interesting is that for a man of Brzezinskis status to talk in detail about the Pakistani perspective - he has to be told about how Pakis feel to be Paki - and how India looms large. You can "understand" the Paki perspective only if you are close to Pakis.CRamS wrote:Any links that highlight what services they have delivered to TSP of late?shiv wrote:Both Scowcroft and Brzezinski have been paid by Pakis in recent days..
Said dude is in heart a Pole. See, Poland was shafted by Stalin AND Hitler in cahoots (something which the CPI-M communism worshipers NEVER admit to) and he and his fellow emigres from Poland rode the coat tails of Unkil to shaft Russia /Soviet Union. His primary motivation was anti Russia, hence signed up with all anti Soviet Union forces (PRC after the SU-PRC fallout and Pakis to shaft the Russians in Afghanistan).He thought that the Paks and the Chinese were too mentally unstable to become a serious threat.
Billionaire businessman Mansoor Ijaz, now at the heart of a scandal that is threatening to bring down Pakistan's democratic government, had approached India's intelligence services with an offer to broker peace between New Delhi and jihadists linked to the Inter Services Intelligence Directorate, highly placed government sources have told The Hindu .
The businessman, the sources said, made contact with C.D. Sahay—who went on to serve as RAW's chief from 2003 to 2005 —claiming to have the blessings of the White House to broker a secret India-Pakistan deal on Jammu and Kashmir.
Mr. Ijaz's offer came even as key Hizb ul-Mujahideen commander Abdul Majid Dar and the former RAW chief, A.S. Dulat, were engaged in secret discussions aimed at bringing about a ceasefire. Mr. Dar and Mr. Dulat, the sources said, met in the United Arab Emirates after the Kargil war. Srinagar-based sources close to Mr. Dar admitted the meeting took place, but said it came about after the jihad commander experienced a spiritual epiphany while caught among a crush of pilgrims in Mecca.
Less than a fortnight after the July 25, 2000 ceasefire announcement, though the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen's Pakistan-backed chief, Muhammad Yusuf Shah, backed out under ISI pressure—sparking off a bitter internecine war that would claim the lives of several members of the hardline faction, as well as Mr. Dar himself.
Eight weeks before the ceasefire, Mr. Ijaz was flown to Srinagar under RAW escort, where he met with top officials, including then-XV corps commander Lieutenant-General Kishan Pal and Director-General of Police Gurbachan Jagat. The then Chief Minister, Farooq Abdullah, hosted a dinner for the businessman on May 10, 2000.
In a November 22 article in the International Herald Tribune , Mr. Ijaz claimed credit for having organised the ceasefire, saying he implored Pakistan's military ruler, General Pervez Musharraf, to “persuade the Mujahideen under his control to opt for non-violent means.” In the course of a three-hour meeting, Mr. Ijaz wrote: “I told him that every civilian I met in Kashmir earlier that month had tired as much of the incessant violence imparted by Pakistan's militia forces.”
The ceasefire, Mr. Ijaz's account of events has it, fell apart, after “Pakistan's Islamic fundamentalists got wind of the proposal.” General Musharraf, in turn, “got cold feet.”
Mr. Sahay, RAW sources said, received calls from Mr. Ijaz on several subsequent occasions—one time, claiming to have the former head of Pakistan's Jamaat-e-Islami, Qazi Husain Ahmad, on the line.
RAW's opinion, however, was that Mr. Ijaz did not have the influence to deliver on promises he made. His claims to have had a role in organising the ceasefire caused amusement
The likes of Brzezinskis & Kissingers can never be exposed for it would then go up to the US Presidents and Administrations.shiv wrote:But typically the US which quietly sat by as Fai was funded by the ISI is hardly going to investigate or reveal Brzrzakis duplicity . .
When we talk about forces of history I would be wary of saying "can't blame him". Can't blame Jinnah for feeling what he felt, or even Hitler. In Brzeninskis mind India was an inconsequential pawn. He was wrong. He was wrong about how large India loomed in Pakistan consciousness and even as a prominent leader in the US he was unable to read Pakistan beyond what Pakistanis fed him with because he was more concerned about his background and understood the orld less that would be expected of a real leader.vina wrote: He justified it in terms of historical necessity and freedom for Eastern Europe and if that it hadn't happened, the Soviet Union "evil empire" would still be around. Can't blame him from that perspective. But the fallout in terms of Paki terrorism is something we are left holding the can with, and the blow back in terms of "Global Jihad" is hitting unkil in the gonads.
Absolutely - so it is left to others to slowly chip at their reputations and actions so that the great image that has been built up about them and their actions is set right.SSridhar wrote:The likes of Brzezinskis & Kissingers can never be exposed for it would then go up to the US Presidents and Administrations.shiv wrote:But typically the US which quietly sat by as Fai was funded by the ISI is hardly going to investigate or reveal Brzrzakis duplicity . .
Maybe ... people sometimes don't see the bigger picture.vina wrote:Said dude is in heart a Pole. See, Poland was shafted by Stalin AND Hitler in cahoots (something which the CPI-M communism worshipers NEVER admit to) and he and his fellow emigres from Poland rode the coat tails of Unkil to shaft Russia /Soviet Union. His primary motivation was anti Russia, hence signed up with all anti Soviet Union forces (PRC after the SU-PRC fallout and Pakis to shaft the Russians in Afghanistan).He thought that the Paks and the Chinese were too mentally unstable to become a serious threat.
He justified it in terms of historical necessity and freedom for Eastern Europe and if that it hadn't happened, the Soviet Union "evil empire" would still be around. Can't blame him from that perspective. But the fallout in terms of Paki terrorism is something we are left holding the can with, and the blow back in terms of "Global Jihad" is hitting unkil in the gonads.
Adil Ray investigate the link between the grooming of young girls and Pakistani men
More alarming was that even friends and those not associated with the attackers deemed the rapes acceptable behaviour.
Acharya ji: You are quite right. Among these three, the polock brazinski is by far the worst, and the biggest threat. This bsturd has a visceral hatred of the Russians. That is personal with him, and also based on his polok background. He has more of a Polish world view, than a concern for American security. He was responsible for the catastrophe that was Carter's foreign policy. This bsturd put in place US deals with the paki for the proxy war in Afghanistan. That gave birth to Al Qaida under bin Laden, established policy of winking at paki nuclear bomb acqisition from the Chinese, all based on his utter hatred for both the Russians and the Indians. Even with hindsight and 911, he continues to brag like a moronic imbicile every chance he gets on TV on how he destryed the soviet union. His hatred of India, and his love for islamics continues unabated. I do not know what is the basis for the latter complex, but he has obviously had to disguise it as he eats Fox News money. Brazinski followed Kissinger in the NSA spot, and was intensly jelous of him, particularly after Dr K got the Nobel, and that was one big reason why he did his best to lay down policies that would greatly influence and tie down the NSAs who followed him into decisions he had made (the two half wits who were at this gathering with him. Unfortunately, India does need to pay particular attention to what mischief this polock is up to, because, being of the foreign policy establishment of the Dem party, he gets heard by the Obama administration. Mad Dog Brazinski. Good thing you caught this assole in the act. Let us keep tabs on him. And incidentally, while history does move ever so slowly, some times, with people like Dr. K, Brazinski et al, one can almost see the fall of american civilization in perceptible motion.Acharya wrote:jrjrao wrote: And the U.S. has never made that choice: What is its priority? Building Afghanistan or confronting China?
These country-club idiots are so far removed from the Dover KIA processing center, and from the freshly dug graves at Arlington and at cemeteries all around the US, in which lay buried freshly dead young Americans, all because of the Pakis.[/quotDo not underestimate these guys.
India is needed only for this or India is to be discarded. The question should be - Can anarchy rule the region just because one country has a problem. Why are they taking the concerns of Pakistan when Pakistan is not taking the concerns of regional countries.
Rajdeep, uncovered meat.Rajdeep wrote:More alarming was that even friends and those not associated with the attackers deemed the rapes acceptable behaviour.
Start from here?CRamS wrote:Any links that highlight what services they have delivered to TSP of late?shiv wrote:Both Scowcroft and Brzezinski have been paid by Pakis in recent days..
After seeing the docu , the way they try to rationalise with some piskology is just too much !SSridhar wrote: Rajdeep, uncovered meat.
Maybe it is time for the British to 'groom' these a-holes in prison. I am surprised that the Brits are not trying these guys as child molesters/ rapists and putting them away for a very long time. They should stop using euphemisms like 'grooming' to minimize the atrocity. In fact in the US prisons, these types of guys are considered the lowliest of the lows with fellow inmates reserving special treatment for them.More alarming was that even friends and those not associated with the attackers deemed the rapes acceptable behaviour.
sum wrote:GoI seems to have declassified its dealings with Mansoor Ijaz now that he is facing the heat and in the news:
Billionaire at heart of Pakistan political crisis offered RAW help with ISI-linked jihadists
Ijaz met former RAW chief Sahay, claiming to have blessings of White House to broker a secret India-Pakistan deal on J&K
Mansoor Ijaz, the billionaire businessman now at the heart of a scandal that is threatening to bring down Pakistan's democratic government, had earlier approached India's intelligence services with an offer to broker peace between New Delhi and jihadists linked to the Inter Services Intelligence Directorate, highly placed government sources have told The Hindu.
The billionaire businessman, the sources said, made contact with C.D. Sahay—who went on to serve as RAW's chief from 2003 to 2005 —claiming to have the blessings of the White House to broker a secret India-Pakistan deal on Jammu and Kashmir.
In October this year, Mr. Ijaz revealed that Husain Haqqani, Islamabad's ambassador to the United States, had recruited him into plot to ease Pakistan's generals out of positions of power. He went public with a memo calling on the United States to help Pakistan's government rid itself of the Army, and then made over evidence of his conversations with Mr. Haqqani to the ISI's chief, General Shuja Pasha.
President Asif Ali Zardari has since been forced to recall Mr. Haqqani—and many analysts believe what is being called “MemoGate” could end in a frontal showdown between the military and the elected government.
Mr. Ijaz's Kashmir mission reveals the businessman had a long history of participating in political intrigue — but failing to deliver on his promises, and then falling out with partners in public.
Ijaz's Mission Kashmir
Mr. Ijaz's offer came even as key Hizb ul-Mujahideen commander Abdul Majid Dar and former RAW chief A.S. Dulat were engaged in secret discussions aimed at bringing about a ceasefire. Mr. Dar and Mr. Dulat, the sources said, met in the United Arab Emirates after the Kargil war. Srinagar-based sources close to Mr. Dar admitted the meeting took place, but said it came about after the jihad commander experienced a spiritual epiphany while caught among a crush of pilgrims in Mecca.
Less than a fortnight after the July 25, 2000, ceasefire announcement, though the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen's Pakistan-backed chief, Muhammad Yusuf Shah, backed out under ISI pressure—sparking off a bitter internecine war that would claim the lives of several members of the hardline faction, as well as Mr. Dar himself.
Eight weeks before the ceasefire, Mr. Ijaz was flown to Srinagar under RAW escort, where he met with top officials including then-XV corps commander Lieutenant-General Kishan Pal and Director-General of Police Gurbachan Jagat. Former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Farooq Abdullah hosted a dinner for the businessman on May 10, 2000.
In a November 22 article in the International Herald Tribune, Mr. Ijaz claimed credit for having organised the ceasefire, saying he implored Pakistan's military ruler, General Pervez Musharraf, to “persuade the Mujahideen under his control to opt for non-violent means”. In the course of a three hour meeting, Mr. Ijaz wrote, “I told him that every civilian I met in Kashmir earlier that month had tired as much of the incessant violence imparted by Pakistan's militia forces.”
The ceasefire, Mr. Ijaz's account of events has it, fell apart, after “Pakistan's Islamic fundamentalists got wind of the proposal”. General Musharraf in turn “got cold feet”.
Mr. Sahay, RAW sources said, received calls from Mr. Ijaz on several subsequent occasions—one time, claiming to have the former head of Pakistan's Jamaat-e-Islami, Qazi Husain Ahmad, on the line.
RAW's opinion, however, was that Mr. Ijaz did not have the influence to deliver on promises he made. His claims to have had a role in organising the ceasefire caused amusement
The Sudan affair
India's spies weren't the only players to lose faith in Mr. Ijaz. In the 1990s, Mr. Ijaz—who runs an investment bank in New York, and was a major donor to the Democratic party—claimed to have been relaying messages from Sudan's Islamist government to the White House. Mr. Ijaz later wrote his mission had given the United States an opportunity to eliminate Osama bin-Laden.
IMO unlikely that these mofos ahve the degree of control that is needed to carry out such a concerted global attack and also gain from it in some way.Altair wrote:I have a feeling that Pakistan has set in motion plans for a series of terrorist attacks on both Indian and Western targets all over the world. My feeling is based on the chatter level of Pakistani mouth pieces. They occasionally give out a sudden splash of "confidence" when they speak like a Gamma ray burst.
Please watch Hamid Gul, Kiyani videos and statements for the past week. If there is something in the pipeline, these two monsters would know about it.
Then SMK has a meeting with Karzai on the sidelines to discuss Indian aid to Afghans.BONN (Online): As global talks kicked-off to plan the future roadmap for Afghanistan, India on the first day of the moot accused that Pakistan is responsible of all the crises facing Afghanistan.The Indian minister for External Affairs S.M. Krishna during his speech did not spare Pakistan aimed at seeking peace for Afghan people who suffered a lot and lost thousands of lives in decade long war.
General expectations from a rational and honest entity is to pick one position and stick by it. But pakis are neither rational(in general sense) nor honest. They will choose and change their position on their need. They dont think long-term, only short-term. So, they will be 'tactically brilliant'.shiv wrote:Folks let me ask you a rhetorical pisko question in MCQ format. If you were Pakistan army and the US conduced a raid under your nose to take out bin Laden, what response would be the best in order for you to save your echandee? Choose one.
1. Admit that you knew nothing about it
2. Say that you found out about it but did not respond
3. Say that it is not possible to respond against the US
4. Say that you knew all along and your silence was part of the game to get bin Laden.
a. What happened to the usual Pakistani missile tests that occur whenever bravado is called for?Singha wrote:but they have enough of a sensor grid to 'know' if someone else is up to it. like all tactically brilliant jernails, they will 'align' and express quiet support while preparing for the aftermath and seeking ways to benefit from the chaos.
KARACHI: A low intensity explosion ripped through Kala Pul bridge near Defence area, injuring two people, SAMAA reports Tuesday.
...
The blast came as Youm-e-Ashur, the 10th of Muharram, is being observed across the country today to pay tributes to Hazrat Imam Hussain (RA) and his companions for Islam.
A similar incident occurred in the city on Monday night when at least two people incurred injuries in a powerful explosion in Lines Area.
It was initially believed to be cylinder blast, but later sources said that explosives were used to carry out explosion. SAMAA
US military officials say Pakistan leaving border liaison centres
I think PA abduls will be issued Jihadi outfits.ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is pulling its troops out of at least two of the three centres meant to coordinate military activity across the Afghan border in apparent retaliation for Nato airstrikes that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, US military officials said.
The move will hamper US efforts to liaise with Pakistani forces, increasing the risk that something could go wrong again, said the officials late Monday. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
The US and Pakistan have offered different accounts of what led to the Nato attacks against two army posts along the Afghan border before dawn on November 26, but the deadly incident seems to have been caused in part by communication breakdowns.
The soldiers’ deaths have plunged already strained US-Pakistan relations to an all-time low, threatening Washington’s attempts to get Pakistan to cooperate on the Afghan war.
Pakistan retaliated immediately by closing its Afghan border crossings to Nato supplies, demanding the US vacate an air base used by American drones and boycotting an international conference held Monday in Bonn, Germany, aimed at stabilising Afghanistan.
Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told The Associated Press in an interview Monday that Pakistan wanted to repair relations with the United States.
But the military’s decision to abandon the border coordination centres shows it is still outraged over the incident, which it has called deliberate — an allegation denied by the US.
Pakistan may still have troops at the coordination centre in Torkham in the country’s northwest Khyber tribal area, but has pulled out of the other two along the border, said the US officials.
The Pakistani military did not immediately respond to request for comment.
