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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 08 Jul 2008 02:40
by Sanjay M
RamaY wrote: US pulling off its forces from Afghanistan will make Taleban invincible. That will make the Ummah think (rightly or wrongly) that they defeated both the 20th centure super powers in Afghanistan. This would embolden them and make life hell for the entire world in general and for India in perticular.

I think India should start working closely with US/Nato/Russia to ensure that this doesnt happen. If it means India stepping up its direct presense, it is the tough decision India should make soon. India should join the west (strategic embrace) overtly and escalate and resolve the pakistan issue once and for all.
It would be preposterous for India to have an overt military presence on Afghani soil. Then our troops would only become the same targets that the US/NATO have become. The problem originates from Pakistan, not Afghanistan, so there's no sense giving Pak a free ride by chasing the enemy in the wrong location. India has to engage the US and NATO countries for coordinating the stepping up of pressure on Pak. Furthermore, we have to get it through their thick skulls that even if Pakistan is genuinely incapable of stopping its own disease which it has created, then it means the Pakistani plague-carrier must itself be destroyed to preserve the greater health of the world body.

Let's stop all this lazy and self-defeating talk about fighting a "long war". Time is on the jihadi's side, because the more time you give them, the more they will adapt to the methods being used against them. Let's end this jihadi Darwinist dynamic, and destroy them decisively, instead of some stupid attempt at gradualism.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 08 Jul 2008 03:15
by RamaY
[/quote]
Let's stop all this lazy and self-defeating talk about fighting a "long war". Time is on the jihadi's side, because the more time you give them, the more they will adapt to the methods being used against them. Let's end this jihadi Darwinist dynamic, and destroy them decisively, instead of some stupid attempt at gradualism.[/quote]

Sanjay M:

I honestly didn't understand your point above :cry:

On one hand you said the time is on Jihadi side meaning we have to lie low for now... but then you say "the more time you give them, the more they will adapt to the methods being used against them"

My suggestion was to end this problem for good by pressing pakistan from both sides, which you thought a preposterous idea... but you say "destroy them decisively, instead of some stupid attempt at gradualism "

As long as we think it would be "preposterous for India" to pursue its national interests and expect others to do its dirty work, we dont have any right to cry from roof tops when something like this/kandahar/parliament-attack happens..

Thanks in advance...

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 09 Jul 2008 00:29
by ramana
Pakistan's proxy war

Ashok Mehta

For the country, and the Congress-led Government especially, it was a Black Monday: Its Government in Jammu & Kashmir fell; the Left withdrew its support; it lost a few legislators in Karnataka to the BJP; and horror of horrors, Pakistan formalised its proxy war against India in Afghanistan through a suicide attack targetting the Indian Embassy in Kabul. The car bomb suicide attack, the deadliest in Kabul since 9/11, marks the culmination of the decade-long India-Pakistan covert pincer war in Afghanistan. The Pakistan ISI-sponsored strike is the clearest signal that the gloves are off: Islamabad is reasserting the concept of strategic depth in Afghanistan and challenging interloper Delhi's foray into its legitimate sphere of influence.

After the dismantling of the Taliban regime in Kabul, Pakistan has constantly feared encirclement by India especially after the Indian Air Force's new air base at Farkhor in Tajikistan and through its soft power: Economic and humanitarian aid which has made a profound impression on Afghans. If the theory of strategic encirclement is a viable one, India deserves credit for it given it does not have contiguous borders with Afghanistan. India's strategic objectives in Afghanistan are best met with a pro-India Government in Kabul keeping an eye on Pakistan and access to resource-rich Central Asia.

Islamabad's notion of strategic depth in Afghanistan is a keenly debated subject in Pakistan. Some experts, including former Army Chief Gen Jehangir Karamat, say it is an outdated concept, a relic of the Cold War. Others, including the new Government, disagree. It has, therefore, reinvented a more aggressive version of countering India's growing influence in Afghanistan which it believes has been encouraged by the Karzai Government to balance Pakistan.

The Indian presence in Afghanistan, through its old and new Consulates at Herat, Mazar-e-Sharif, Jalalabad and Kandahar, has stoked Pakistan's fears that India's R&AW had set up these outposts, especially the last two, bordering Pakistan for running covert operations against Islamabad. It has alleged that R&AW is assisting the Baluchistan Liberation Army with arms and funds to foment the ongoing insurgency.

The logic and framework of the India-Pakistan confrontation in Afghanistan is contained in a recent report published by the US Centre for Strategic and International Studies, titled India and Pakistan in Afghanistan: Hostile Sports. Relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan have never been worse than now with Kabul accusing Islamabad of cross-border terrorism in the same tune as Delhi has been doing for decades. That makes both India and Afghanistan victims of Pakistan-sponsored terrorism.

It is not just in Afghanistan where Pakistan is seeking strategic depth but also in Jammu & Kashmir, though the strategic focus has shifted from east to west with nearly 100,000 troops deployed on the Pakistan-Afghan border. Bulk of these forces were moved under US persuasion after 9/11 and included key strategic reserves earmarked against India. One of the reasons the Pakistan Army is reluctant to fight the terror war in the west is to regain the operational balance against Indian forces in the east.

Another reason is to take the heat of the suicide attacks off Pakistan and transfer it to Afghanistan. That is the rationale of the peace deals with the old and new Taliban. That the stage for the new proxy war between India and Pakistan is to be Afghanistan is confirmed by the Rand Corporation's new report by Seth Jones, Counterinsurgency in Afghanistan. He makes the assertive claim that ISI and Frontier Corps are aiding the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan with the primary aim of balancing India.

The suicide attack, taking out the defence attaché , the political counsellor and ITBP guards comes after three successful strikes against Border Roads Organisation personnel this year in north-west Afghanistan. The direct assault on the Indian Embassy was expected any time now. It represents a big blow to Western efforts to cobble together modest means of cooperation between India and Pakistan rather than outright confrontation in Afghanistan.

The India-Pakistan Joint Anti Terror Mechanism, which has made no breakthrough in providing clues to any of the recent terror attacks, could now break down. As the convener of the India-Pakistan Track II, I have been trying for the last two years without any modicum of success to keep the JATM afloat while urging retired Pakistani Generals and scholars on the seminar circuit to look beyond the fatigued notion of strategic depth. We had agreed to include cooperation in Afghanistan as the ninth item on the India-Pakistan composite dialogue and were also exploring other options for cooperation under the SAARC charter.

As all three countries were victims of terrorism, besides the bilateral JATMs, a trilateral framework could be examined, it was agreed. Despite Afghan requests through the Jirgah, Pakistan has stubbornly refused to provide India with a trade transit corridor. Islamabad fears that better and cheaper Indian goods would outclass its products. Pakistan feels that India, through its $ 800 million bilateral aid programme - the fifth largest - has reduced Islamabad to a fringe player in Afghanistan.

About 4,000 Indians are working in Afghanistan on projects which also involve 25 private companies. The thrust areas are infrastructure development, humanitarian assistance and institutional and human resource development. The reconstruction projects are chosen by the Afghan Government. Nearly 600 ITBP and CISF personnel are deployed for the security of these projects. In view of the latest suicide attack, both the security structures and surveillance will have to be strengthened.

June was the bloodiest month in Afghanistan since the war on terror began in 2001. Even Iraq was tame by comparison. Most worrying is the path of the suicide bomber which is moving from Baghdad to Kabul to Islamabad with deadly lethality. The first suicide attack in Afghanistan was in 2004 and altogether four that year. Next year, the number increased to 17. In 2006 and 2007, the figure catapulted to 123 and 117. This year, already the tally is 66, not to mention the nearly 100 attacks in Pakistan last year.

The suicide scenario is chilling as there is no antidote to those willing to die. India has so far not fallen on the jihadi suicide path, but the suicide bomber has reached our doorstep. The diplomatic mask is likely to fall in the run up to the Assembly election in Jammu & Kashmir later this year. Our intelligence and counter-terrorism agencies have to brace up for the new war which must be fought in Afghanistan - and if necessary in Pakistan. If the terrorist threat emanating from Pakistan is not met collectively by the three SAARC countries, it will have to be fought on India's terms.
A few questions. So Track II was flourishing and had suggested a trilateral body as bilateral were failing. Looks like this is a response to the idea of tri-lateral body.

Also does the West provide intellectual justification for TSP with its numerous studies or does it just document the angst inside TSP? Either way an indicator seems to be the appearance of a new study from the Western experts!

Is the last para a forebodying of things to come or a threat?

And this op-ed confirms to me its a official TSP action and not a rogue one as the Indian press is trying deperately to portray.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 10 Jul 2008 16:51
by sanjaychoudhry
Some Afghans have named their daughters Tulsi :mrgreen:

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2008/jul/10sld01.htm

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 13 Jul 2008 22:55
by Vivek_A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/ap_ ... fghanistan

Official: 9 US troops killed in Afghanistan



By JASON STRAZIUSO, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago

KABUL, Afghanistan - A multi-pronged militant assault on a small, remote U.S. base killed nine American soldiers Sunday in one of the deadliest attacks on U.S. troops since the 2001 invasion, a Western official said.
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Militants fired machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars from homes and a mosque in the village of Wanat in the northeastern province of Kunar, a mountainous region that borders Pakistan, NATO's International Security Assistance Force said in a statement.

The attack on the relatively new outpost began at 4:30 a.m. Sunday and lasted throughout the day.

Nine U.S. troops were killed in the attack, a Western official said on condition of anonymity because the deaths had not yet been officially announced.

Lt. Col. Rumi Nielson-Green, the top U.S. military spokeswoman in Afghanistan, said she could not comment because the battle was ongoing. She referred calls to NATO headquarters in Kabul.

NATO said in a statement that there have been casualties on both sides but accurate numbers could not be confirmed because the fighting was ongoing.

The attack appeared to be the deadliest for U.S. troops in Afghanistan since June 2005, when 16 American troops died were killed — also in Kunar province — when their helicopter was shot down by a rocket-propelled grenade.

Those troops were on their way to rescue a four-man team of Navy SEALs caught in a militant ambush. Three SEALs were killed, the fourth was rescued days later by a farmer.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — A Western official says that nine U.S. soldiers have been killed in a multi-pronged insurgent attack on a remote American base in eastern Afghanistan.

The attack appears to be the deadliest against U.S. forces in Afghanistan in years.

NATO's International Security Assistance force says that militants fired machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars from homes and a mosque in the village of Wanat in Kunar province, a mountainous region that borders Pakistan.

The Western official says that nine U.S. soldiers have been killed. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the deaths had not yet been officially announced.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 14 Jul 2008 18:03
by Philip
More on the attack.The legacy of Bush.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 326321.ece
Tom Coghlan in Kabul

Western forces in Afghanistan suffered their biggest losses in a single battle since 2001 yesterday when Taleban forces stormed a remote American base, killing nine US soldiers.

Nato said that the small American “combat outpost” in the Dara-I-Pech district of Kunar province came under heavy fire at about 4.30am. US forces called in mortars, artillery, Apache helicopters and fighter jets.

Nato confirmed the nine deaths in its ranks and said that 15 US soldiers and four Afghan soldiers had been injured. It also claimed that the Taleban had sustained “very heavy losses”.

A spokesman for the Taleban claimed that the insurgents had overrun the base. “From yesterday till now the fighting is going on,” said Zabiullah Mujahed. “We have destroyed the whole base. We don’t know how many Americans or Taleban have been killed.” Nato said that insurgents used homes, shops and the mosque in the village of Wanat for cover.

Troops face switch from Iraq to Afghanistan
When searing heat is the deadliest foe
Inquiry to investigate communication hitch

The governor of neighbouring Nuristan province, Hazrat Noor, said: “After the attack the US troops decided to move their base to the district centre of Wanat and they tried to build shelters there in the bazaar overnight. Now the Taleban have attacked again.” US strategy in Afghanistan has focused increasingly on the use of smaller and more numerous bases, called combat outposts. They aim to give US forces greater influence in local communities. However, American military commanders have privately admitted that such small bases could prove vulnerable if the Taleban was able to concentrate enough fighters and take the base by surprise, as apparently happened yesterday.

The terrain in Kunar and Nuristan, with steep valleys, few roads and dense pine forest, has proved ideal for insurgent movements and ambushes. One Afghan official said that 400 insurgents, including Arab and Chechen fighters, had crossed the frontier from Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas into Nuristan in recent weeks.

Afghanistan is experiencing a rising tide of violence this year, with a sharp increase in Taleban attacks, especially in the east, where Nato says militants have taken advantage of peace deals in Pakistan to cross the border.

The storming of the outpost was likely to provoke louder calls in the US for a change in strategy. Even before details of yesterday’s battle emerged, Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, accused Hamid Karzai, the Afghan President, of allowing his country to slip towards chaos.

“I think the Karzai Government has not gotten out of the bunker and helped organise Afghanistan and government, the judiciary, police forces, in ways that would give people confidence,” Mr Obama said.

“A big chunk of the issue is that we allowed the Taleban and al-Qaeda to regenerate itself when we had them on the ropes. That was a big mistake, and it’s one I’m going to correct when I’m president.”

The battle in Kunar province comes as the Taleban’s summer offensive gathers pace. Heavy fighting was reported yesterday in a broad swath of southern and eastern Afghanistan.

In Helmand a US soldier was killed in clashes around the town of Sangin and along the Helmand river. “At least 40 militants have been killed in the last two days, while over 30 enemy boats and several . . . bridges were also destroyed on the Helmand river,” the US military reported.

A Hungarian soldier was killed in the northern province of Baghlan in a roadside bomb attack.

In the southern province of Uruzgan a suicide bomb attack on a police convoy killed 24 people, including four policemen, in a crowded bazaar in the town of Deh Rawood. Another 27 people were injured.

Nato accused the Taleban of using a child to mount a suicide attack in Helmand on Saturday when two Afghan soldiers and another child were killed.

Big losses

PS:At this rate it might be worth for the US/NATO to pursue establishing a radioactive buffer zone between Pak and the rest of Afghanistan sending the "tribal areas" back to the stone age.Time for the B-52s to visit Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 15 Jul 2008 06:28
by Sanjay M
New York Times

Taliban Breached NATO Base in Deadly Clash

By CARLOTTA GALL and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: July 15, 2008

KABUL, Afghanistan — The Taliban insurgents who attacked a remote American-run outpost near the Pakistan border on Sunday numbered nearly 200 fighters, almost three times the size of the allied force, and some breached the NATO compound in a coordinated assault that took the defenders by surprise, Western officials said Monday.

The attackers were driven back in a pitched four-hour battle, and they appeared to suffer scores of dead and wounded of their own, but the toll they inflicted was sobering. The base and a nearby observation post were held by just 45 American troops and 25 Afghan soldiers, two senior allied officials said, asking for anonymity while an investigation is under way.

With nine Americans dead and at least 15 injured, that means that one in five of the American defenders was killed and nearly half the remainder were wounded. Four Afghan soldiers were also wounded.

American and Afghan forces started building the makeshift base just last week, and its defenses were not fully in place, one of the senior allied officials said. In some places, troops were using their vehicles as barriers against insurgents.

The militants apparently detected the vulnerability and moved quickly to exploit it in a predawn assault in which they attacked from two directions, American officials said.

It was the first time insurgents had partly breached any of the three dozen outposts that American and Afghan forces operate jointly across the country, according to a Western official who insisted on anonymity in providing details of the operation.

The surprise attack underscored the vulnerability of American forces in Afghanistan, which are increasingly stretched thin as they are dispatched to far-flung and often isolated mountainous outposts with their Afghan allies. The United States now has about 32,000 troops in Afghanistan, about one-fifth the number in Iraq, even though Afghanistan is half-again as large as Iraq.

American commanders and NATO military officials said the assault had also reflected boldness among insurgents who had benefited from new bases in neighboring Pakistan.

It underscored the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan, where war casualties have jumped this year and where American commanders have said repeatedly that their force is undermanned.

The fact that the base, on the western side of Kunar Province, was staffed by just 70 soldiers was first reported Monday by The Los Angeles Times. The death toll amounted to the worst single loss for the American military in Afghanistan since June 2005 and one of the worst since the Taliban and their Qaeda associates were routed in late 2001.

American and Afghan soldiers inside the base were hit by flying fragments from bullets, grenades and mortar shells that insurgents fired from houses, shops and a mosque in a village within a few hundred yards of the base, several officials said.

At the lightly fortified observation post nearby, American soldiers came under heavy fire from militants streaming through farmland under cover of darkness. Most of the American casualties took place there, a senior American military official said.

American warplanes, attack helicopters and long-range artillery were urgently summoned to help repel the militants.

But the insurgents made it so far that a few of their corpses were found inside the base’s earthen barriers, and others were lying around it, Tamim Nuristani, a former governor in the region, said after talking to officials in the district.

The attack was unusually bold. Taliban guerrillas and other militants in Afghanistan rarely attack better-armed allied forces head on, preferring suicide bombs and hit-and-run ambushes against foot patrols and convoys. But they have made occasional attempts to overrun lightly staffed or otherwise vulnerable outposts.

“Quite clearly they wanted to overrun the outpost,” the Western official said of the insurgents. “It was a well-planned surprise attack.”

The United States and Afghanistan have been establishing dozens of military outposts, often in remote areas controlled by the Taliban or their allies. “We’re looking at places to stop the flow of insurgents and establish relations with the local tribes,” a senior American military official said.

Allied and American officials said the attack began at 4:30 a.m. Sunday. Fighters who had infiltrated the hamlet of Wanat overnight and ordered the villagers to leave opened fire on the outpost from the west and southwest.

At roughly the same time, American officials said, another group began the second prong of attack, firing on the observation post from the east. Some fought through to the main outpost a few hundred yards farther.

American ground commanders immediately called in artillery and airstrikes from a B-1 bomber, as well as A-10 and F-15E attack planes. Apache helicopter gunships and a remotely piloted Predator aircraft fired Hellfire missiles at the insurgents, military officials said.

Many of the village houses were damaged in the strikes, but there were no civilian casualties because the villagers had left, Mr. Nuristani said.

Insurgents have been present in the area for months, including Pakistani militant groups like Laskhar-e-Taiba, a group that was originally formed to fight in Kashmir, he said.

The American and Afghan army soldiers had moved into the base at Wanat just days before, after abandoning another base higher up a side valley where they had come under repeated attack from insurgents.

“But this even surprised me that so many Taliban were gathered in one place,” Mr. Nuristani said.

He said some local people might have joined the militants since a group of civilians were killed in American airstrikes on July 4 in the same area. “This made the people angry,” he said. “It was the same area. The airstrikes happened maybe one kilometer away from the base.”

Mr. Nuristani strongly criticized those airstrikes, saying that 22 civilians had been killed. The provincial police chief confirmed that at least 17 civilians had been killed. The American military said planes had struck vehicles of insurgents but it has announced an investigation. Days after his comments, Mr. Nuristani was removed from his post.

He said that the security in the region of Nuristan and northern Kunar Provinces was precarious and that insurgents had freedom of movement from the border with Pakistan through 60 miles of Nuristan to the base at Wanat. “They can bring men, weapons and cars,” he said.

Local people and police have also battled insurgents in Barg-e-Matal, in another part of Nuristan, and complained that they were not getting enough help from the central government.

NATO officials gave little further detail of the attack on Monday. “It has been quiet overnight,” said Capt. Mike Finney, a spokesman for the NATO force in Kabul. “The insurgents had been pushed away.”

Carlotta Gall reported from Kabul, and Eric Schmitt from Washington. Abdul Waheed Wafa contributed reporting from Kabul.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 15 Jul 2008 07:12
by Sanjay M
RamaY wrote:Sanjay M:

I honestly didn't understand your point above :cry:

On one hand you said the time is on Jihadi side meaning we have to lie low for now... but then you say "the more time you give them, the more they will adapt to the methods being used against them"


I'm afraid you have a poor grasp of english idiom.
The phrase "time is on the jihadi's side" means that they will get stronger and more entrenched as time passes.
They need to be dealt with sooner rather than later.
My suggestion was to end this problem for good by pressing pakistan from both sides, which you thought a preposterous idea... but you say "destroy them decisively, instead of some stupid attempt at gradualism"
I was not directing my comments against your suggestion. I was directing them at our current policy of waiting around to let Pak help Taliban get stronger.
As long as we think it would be "preposterous for India" to pursue its national interests and expect others to do its dirty work, we dont have any right to cry from roof tops when something like this/kandahar/parliament-attack happens..

Thanks in advance...
I don't feel that we should do all the heavy lifting, as the West is under threat too, not just us. Plus the West helped to make Pak and its jihadis into the menace they are today.

I think that the attack on our embassy was the jihadi combine trying to gain more loyalty from its Kashmiri component, by showing how they can hit us.

We should strike back in Sindh, and use Sindh as a land-bridge for supplying support to Baluchistan.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 15 Jul 2008 18:40
by RamaY
Sanjay M wrote:
RamaY wrote:Sanjay M:

I honestly didn't understand your point above :cry:

On one hand you said the time is on Jihadi side meaning we have to lie low for now... but then you say "the more time you give them, the more they will adapt to the methods being used against them"


I'm afraid you have a poor grasp of english idiom.
The phrase "time is on the jihadi's side" means that they will get stronger and more entrenched as time passes.
They need to be dealt with sooner rather than later.
My suggestion was to end this problem for good by pressing pakistan from both sides, which you thought a preposterous idea... but you say "destroy them decisively, instead of some stupid attempt at gradualism"
I was not directing my comments against your suggestion. I was directing them at our current policy of waiting around to let Pak help Taliban get stronger.
As long as we think it would be "preposterous for India" to pursue its national interests and expect others to do its dirty work, we dont have any right to cry from roof tops when something like this/kandahar/parliament-attack happens..

Thanks in advance...
I don't feel that we should do all the heavy lifting, as the West is under threat too, not just us. Plus the West helped to make Pak and its jihadis into the menace they are today.

I think that the attack on our embassy was the jihadi combine trying to gain more loyalty from its Kashmiri component, by showing how they can hit us.

We should strike back in Sindh, and use Sindh as a land-bridge for supplying support to Baluchistan.

Fair enough... I think we both are in one party laa..

Let's focus on destroying pakistan :D

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 15 Jul 2008 19:55
by ramana
You two knock it off. Whats the matter arguing over non existent differences. SanjayM cant you slow down and post more clearly. And RamaY read them over again. And both of you dont reply to each other for a week. The threads are already too long due tothe forum upgrade and makes the admins life more difficult. Off-course the one touch ban is easy but dont want to use it.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 15 Jul 2008 20:35
by Avinash R
Call for withdrawal of turkish forces or ransom?
Two Turkish engineers, interpreter kidnapped in Afghanistan
Tue, Jul 15 07:14 PM

Kabul, July 15 (DPA) A group of gunmen has kidnapped two Turkish engineers working at a construction project in Afghanistan's western Herat province, a senior police official said Tuesday.

'Two Turkish nationals, construction engineers, and their interpreter were kidnapped Monday by unknown gunmen from Pashtoon Pul area of Islam Qala town bordering with Iran,' a regional police spokesman Abdul Rauf Ahmadi said Tuesday.

'Their car and their passports were found in Jaghartan area of Enjeel district of Heart province; the gunmen just took the Turkish engineers to an unknown location,' Ahmadi said.

No one had claimed responsibility for the abduction yet, he said.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 03:08
by Sanjay M

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 03:54
by ramana
L-e-T is a Pakjabi outfit. J-e-M is Kashmir centered outfit.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 05:05
by John Snow
So after all this TSP is not a terror sponsering nation but front line allie worth billions of dollars in aid and armaments?

Wow. Wow Washington
Pay a little attention
To the jihadi nation
Puting your donations
To work as detonations
Right under foggy bottoms!

Oh those naive Americans
( Set to the tune of row row Rusputin by Boney M hit song oc 1979)

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 05:25
by sunilUpa
India accomplishes Afghan road mission
New Delhi, July 15: India has braved the 7/7 Kabul embassy blast and held on to complete the strategic Afghanistan road linking Zaranj on the Iran border to Delaram in its north-east.

The 218-km road, which will loosen Pakistan’s stranglehold on its land-locked neighbour by allowing Afghanistan access to the sea from the Iran side, is likely to be declared completed on Thursday, sources said.

Security agencies see the success of this project, funded and executed by Delhi, as a reason for the car-bomb attack on the Kabul embassy that killed four Indians. They allege Pakistan set off the blast as it is uneasy about the edge India will now have in the central Asian power game.

The blast victims were today nominated for the Kirti Chakra, India’s second-highest peacetime military award, according to a PTI report. The names of the four — IFS officer V.V. Rao, defence attache R.D. Mehta and ITBP jawans Roop Singh and Ajai Pathania — have been forwarded by the defence ministry to the department concerned. If approved, it will be the first time an IFS officer will be given the military award for bravery.

The completion of the road by the Border Roads Organisation will also be an enduring tribute to the four, described as “martyrs” by Indian officials.


Sources said the road, which required the services of four companies of the Indo-Tibetan Border Police to guard the construction workers, will be dedicated to the Afghan people. The 400-odd ITBP officers are likely to return home.

The road is a godsend for Afghanistan as it will now be able to access the Iranian port of Chabahar. The time taken to reach the sea will be much less than that taken via the Pakistan route as Delaram is on the Kandahar-Herat road.

This will not only increase the volume of Afghan trade, it will facilitate the transit of Indian goods to that country. Pakistan can no longer play difficult and refuse permission to ferry goods through their territory.

In 2003, India, Iran and Afghanistan had signed an MoU to improve Kabul’s access to the coast. While Iran was to build a transit route to link Milak in its south-east to Zaranj in Afghanistan, India was to construct the Zaranj-Delaram road.

Proposals are being worked out on additional manpower requirements at consulates in Jalalabad and Kandahar where security will be beefed up. India also has consulates in Mazar-e-sharif and Herat.
Fitting tribute...

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 12:09
by Avinash R

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 14:02
by vipins
US troops pull out of Afghan base after attack
KABUL, Afghanistan - U.S. and Afghan troops have abandoned a remote outpost in eastern Afghanistan where militants killed nine American soldiers this week, officials said Wednesday.
Compounding the military setback, insurgents quickly seized the village of Wanat in Nuristan province after driving out the handful of police left behind to defend government offices, Afghan officials said.
Some 50 officers were headed to the area to try to regain control, said Ghoolam Farouq, a senior provincial police official.

Sunday's attack by some 200 militants armed with machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars was the deadliest for the U.S. military in Afghanistan in three years. Rebels fought their way into the newly established base, wounding another 15 Americans and suffering heavy casualties of their own, before the defenders and warplanes could drive them back.
The assault underlined how Islamic militants appear to be gaining strength nearly eight years after the ouster of the Taliban, and the difficulties facing foreign and Afghan forces trying to defeat them.
NATO said the post, which lies amid precipitous mountains close to the Pakistan border, had been vacated, but insisted that international and Afghan troops will "retain a strong presence in that area with patrolling and other means."
"We are committed, now more than ever, to establishing a secure environment that will allow even greater opportunities for development and a stronger Afghan governmental influence," NATO spokesman Capt. Mike Finney said.
Omar Sami, spokesman for the Nuristan provincial governor, said American and Afghan soldiers quit the base on Tuesday afternoon. He said they took the district mayor with them.
Sami said U.S. troops armed local police with more than 20 guns before they left, but that the officers had fled the village and crossed into neighboring Kunar province when 100 militants moved into Wanat.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 16:04
by sum
Any particular reason why we are going with the ITBP in A'tan from among dozens of paramils? Do they undergo any special training in close combat and asset protection?

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 16 Jul 2008 16:26
by Aditya_V
Reason for ITBP, could be because of mountainous terrain in Central Afganistan and they are the paramils most suited for terrain

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 02:04
by enqyoob
FWIW: Bush plans holiday in Wana?
IANS
US poised to bomb Pakistan: Reports
Last Updated: Wednesday, 16 July , 2008, 18:11


London/Islamabad: US troops in Afghanistan are massing close to the border with Pakistan, poised to launch bombing raids on suspected terrorist bases in the North Waziristan region, British and Pakistani newspapers reported on Wednesday.

Nine American soldiers were killed and 15 wounded on Sunday in an attack by militants on a US base in Kunar province, close to the Pakistani border.

The Times said troops had been airlifted from the village of Lowara Mandi and that heavy artillery and armoured vehicles were also being moved into position for possible cross-border attacks on Pakistan.

The paper said US Admiral Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, during a visit to Islamabad at the weekend, had told Pakistan's top civil and military leadership that the US could take unilateral military action if Pakistan were unable to stop cross-border attacks in Afghanistan.

Mullen said some elements within Pakistani security agencies could be helping insurgents operate from their bases in the border region, the paper quoted well-placed sources as saying.


The Times quoted an influential Pakistani army official as saying that there were strong indications the US was ready to launch bombing raids against suspected Al-Qaeda and Taliban camps inside Pakistan.

The Pakistani newspaper The News quoted official and tribal sources in the North Waziristan area as saying NATO troops started arriving near the border areas on Monday night.

"Some of them had been brought in choppers and others by armoured personnel carriers. The troops had also shifted heavy arms and ammunition including tanks, heavy machine guns and artillery to the border," Haji Yaqub, a resident of the border town of Ghulam Khan, said.

The NATO troops have been deployed near the border towns of Ghulam Khan, Saidgai, Shawal and Mir Safar.

"They started setting up bunkers very close to the border while gunship helicopters are continuously hovering over the border," said a man named Roohullah, a resident of the border town of Saidgai.

He said he had never before seen such a large deployment of foreign troops near the border.

"For us, it's unusual as they are on the zero point," Roohullah said, adding that the foreign troops had not crossed the border thus far.

The News quoted its sources as saying NATO troops had dug trenches at Mughalgai near Zhawar, the training camp of Afghan Mujahideen commander Maulvi Jalaluddin Haqqani, in Khost near Pakistan's Saidgai town.

Another bunker was established at Gurbaz near Tarkhobi area of Khost, close to Pakistan's Ghulam Khan town. Trenches were also dug close to Mir Safar and Shawal towns of NWA.

NATO forces had planned to set up four new military camps along the border in the Taliban-dominated provinces of Khost and Paktika in Afghanistan, The News quoted its sources as saying.

"They planned establishing four new military camps along the border and this latest deployment of the foreign troops was first step of the future planning," the sources added.

Meanwhile, Pakistani Taliban spokesman Maulvi Omar has said that Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani's recent statements have provided the US-led NATO forces with an opportunity to deploy near the tribal areas.

"When a responsible person like the Prime Minister has himself said that foreign militants were hiding in Pakistani tribal areas and could cause another 9/11 like disaster, then who will stop American forces from invading the country?" Omar wondered.[/quote]

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 02:07
by enqyoob
[urlhttp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page= ... 2008_pg1_1]From the donkey's musharraf: [/url]

[quote]NATO troops build up on Pak-Afghan border

* Villagers and officials say hundreds of coalition troops, tanks and APCs airlifted to border area
* ISPR spokesman says media creating ‘unnecessary hype’ about troop movement
* Pakistan Army deployed along border placed on high alert
* Taliban spokesman says proximity makes it easier to kill more US soldiers

By Haji Mujtaba

MIRANSHAH: A build up of Western coalition forces on the Afghan border spread alarm among villagers in North Waziristan on Tuesday, as residents and officials said that the Pakistan Army was gearing up for “any eventuality”. (Oh! Olympics are about to begin with race to Islamabad..)

Villagers and officials, requesting anonymity, said that hundreds of coalition troops had been airlifted to a border area near the Lawara village. “The coalition troops have started to strengthen their positions after setting up camp in the border areas adjacent to the Pak-Afghan border and US helicopters have been spotted hovering over target areas as support,” officials said.

Reports from Afghanistan have said that helicopters have been transporting tanks and armoured personnel carriers (APCs) to Sarobagh and other landing strips in the Khost province, which neighbours the Tribal Areas.

A villager said he could clearly see the troops. “They were brought by helicopters. They are at the zero point,” Akmal Khan, a resident of Lawara, told Reuters, referring to the disputed international boundary.

The deployment is near Camp Tillman, a forward operating base for US forces.

Unnecessary: Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Director General Major General Athar Abbas played down concerns by saying it was probably a routine movement and the media had created “unnecessary hype”.

According to APP, he told Dawn News that the movements were restricted to within Afghan territory and were in preparation for an exercise or operation there. “We closely monitor all such moves so nothing occurs too close to the border. Certainly, we have co-ordination and communication with each other,” he added.

High alert: However, officials told Daily Times that the Pakistan Army deployed along the Pak-Afghan border has been placed on high alert in case of any infiltration.

A spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan said there was no question of entering Pakistan. “Our mandate stops at the border,” spokesman Captain Mike Finney said. There was some “extra activity” on the border with troops searching for surviving insurgents after Sunday’s attack that killed nine US troops, he told AFP.

Welcome: Meanwhile, Bajaur Taliban spokesman Maulvi Omar welcomed the build up on the border as a chance to kill more Americans. “It’s a gift that they’re coming here on our land and making it easy for us to kill our enemies, the enemies of Muslims,” he told Reuters.

In a separate statement to The Associated Press, he criticised a statement by Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani that had acknowledged the presence of foreign fighters in the Tribal Areas. “We will consider Prime Minister Gilani our enemy if the NATO or Pakistani security forces attack us after his baseless claim,” he said.

The new government has promised to do whatever it can to secure the border with Afghanistan. However, a series of incidents along the border, including drone aircraft missile attacks, have fuelled fears that the US military may be moving to a more offensive strategy in Pakistani territory.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 06:53
by SwamyG
Iran pouring cash into Afghanistan....

Iran has almost $500 million investment in Afghanistan, just less than India. Herat was part of Persian Empire; so was the eastern part of Afghanistan under the Indic cultural influences. Can it be that Iran and India start to take back........ :twisted:

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 08:14
by enqyoob
Curioser and curioser: (Dang! Bradmins! Can u imagine how good these things would have looked in the BENIS thread? )
uly 17, 2008 Thursday Rajab 13, 1429
Afghanistan to investigate N-waste allegation

KABUL, July 16: President Hamid Karzai appointed on Wednesday a team of experts to investigate allegations that Pakistan had dumped nuclear waste in southern Afghanistan, his office said.

In April, an Afghan minister told the BBC that his government had evidence Pakistan had buried its nuclear waste in the southern Afghan provinces of Helmand and Kandahar during the 1996-2001 Taliban regime.

But the minister for parliamentary affairs, Farouk Wardak, later denied he had said this. Pakistan has also rejected the claim.

Karzai however has now set up, through presidential decree, a team of experts to investigate �rumours� of nuclear dumping, a statement from his office said.

�The delegation is assigned to thoroughly investigate the possible burying of nuclear waste using scientific, technical and residents� observations in suspected areas,� it said.

The team comprised experts, security forces and intelligence agents, the decree said.

Meanwhile, US troops have pulled out of a remote outpost in northeastern Afghanistan, Nato-led security force said, three days after the Taliban tried to overrun the base and killed nine US soldiers.

Nato played down the significance of the withdrawal, but Taliban militants are sure to claim victory in driving foreign forces out of the wooded valley, close to the Pakistani border.

Taliban militants briefly breached the incomplete defences of the newly established base in the Wanat district of Kunar province on Sunday and hours of fierce fighting ensued that killed nine US soldiers and many more insurgents.�Agencies

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 08:48
by ranganathan
SwamyG wrote:Iran pouring cash into Afghanistan....

Iran has almost $500 million investment in Afghanistan, just less than India. Herat was part of Persian Empire; so was the eastern part of Afghanistan under the Indic cultural influences. Can it be that Iran and India start to take back........ :twisted:
Iran has very limited influence and only around herat and border areas. They are fringe players in afghanistan. They simply cannot challenge the US. India has no intention of taking anything back from afghanistan. But India will try to make afghanistan strong enough to stand up and hurt pakistan.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 10:11
by ramana
N^3 That could be stockpile or dirty bums. Forget that thread and think of the ramifications. TSP dumping rad waste in Taliiban territory. its like giving gasoline to an arsonist.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 17 Jul 2008 19:59
by SwamyG
Once external influences diminish, the local and regional influences will only grow. Iran, Pakistan and India are three forces that can influence - whether Afghanistan wants or not. From India's point of view, keeping in its sphere of influence is a must. India does not have to take back real estate, it can take back its influential position in that region. Ofcourse I would be happy to take back PoK and the small part of Afghanistan that would connect us to Central Asia. Somebody suggested buying some real estate from Afghanistan. I wouldn't be so opposed to that.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 18 Jul 2008 11:51
by Sanjay M
US Military wants answers on the attack

SanjayM, Please post the heading so that folks know what it is.Thanks, ramana

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 18 Jul 2008 22:43
by Kakkaji
SwamyG wrote:Once external influences diminish, the local and regional influences will only grow. Iran, Pakistan and India are three forces that can influence - whether Afghanistan wants or not. From India's point of view, keeping in its sphere of influence is a must. India does not have to take back real estate, it can take back its influential position in that region. Ofcourse I would be happy to take back PoK and the small part of Afghanistan that would connect us to Central Asia. Somebody suggested buying some real estate from Afghanistan. I wouldn't be so opposed to that.
'Taking back PoK' is not likely to happen anytime in foreseeable future.

India's only viable access to Afghanistan is through Iran. That's why it is vital for India not to antagonize Iran. Afghanistan is one of many common interests between India and Iran.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 18 Jul 2008 22:57
by John Snow
Guys where is that cartoon in which Uncle gives money to Mushy (TSP) TSP turns around and gives bums to Taliban (Jihadis) and they are busy planting it under uncles butt.

That cartoon should be header for Afghan, TSP and Iran discussions

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 06:35
by Sanjay M
I'd like to see that cartoon, too. I will post it elsewhere for others to see.

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 21:54
by Rangudu
Image

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 10:13
by John Snow
R garu thanks

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 12:06
by Sanjay M

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 15:26
by Sanjay M
Edmonton Sun says

Taliban Cannot Win This War

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 15:33
by Sanjay M

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 08:48
by sum
Para-dogs to hunt Taliban
Para dogs are set to take on Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan as British commanders seek to cut their soaring casualty rates in the restive country.


Fearless German Shepherds are being trained by the British special forces to jump from aircraft at 25,000 feet to fight the Taliban insurgents.

After being parachuted in hostile terrain in Afghanistan, the dogs will lead the assault in SAS raids to seek out Taliban and Al-Qaeda insurgents. The dogs will be used in a highly-skilled technique called ‘High Altitude High Opening’, jumping as much as 20 miles from their targets and gliding towards them for up to 30 minutes.

The canine, with tiny cameras fixed to their heads, will beam live TV pictures back to the troops. The tactic has been devised to cut down the soaring casualty rates in Afghanistan and Iraq. “The dogs will be exposed to very high levels of danger... Nobody wants to see the dogs get killed but if its their life or a man’s. It is obvious which the CO would prefer,” an SAS source said.

Dogs were first trained to parachute in the Second World War by the British on rescue missions.
Do our forces also have these "special canine forces"? Sounds like a very useful concept....

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 11:47
by ranganathan
Stupidity at best. The dogs will get killed. As such the religion of **** has a problem with mans best friend.

Text edited. Please don't repeat it or you will be banned - JE Menon

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 18:35
by RamaY
Extremely sad to hear this. There is no end to man's cruelty. When will humanity understand this world is not just for themselves?... very sad indeed...

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 21:00
by sum
Even i felt its a very sad and cruel thing to throw poor clueless dogs out of airplanes at 20k feet but the article mentions that its been done since WW2?? :-?
So,assuming that most (insurgency hit) armies might be utilising this concept.....

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion: Part IV

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 21:27
by Rahul M
anyone knows how the dogs get rid of the chute itself ?
AFAIK, it is done manually, using levers/buttons etc.