Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 27 Aug 2008 16:25

Actually there is a quite a huge (given the number of babus, netas and their lackeys) number of folks in India that are used to cutting queues and seeking favors that they dont seem to believe that there are societies that dont work that way. They simply want everyone to treat them special and demand it genuinely, sincerely as a right.

My favorite rant posted many times has been that nothing spoils the reputation of the country more than the sight of folks cutting queues at the immigration counter and going straight to the officer, often escorted by a policeman or custom guy. These are not VIPs or handicapped - just some neta's third cousin's drivers neighbours' dogs veterinarian etc. you get the picture. They would have called in advance asking for special treatment. I think killing them right there with snipers would not be wrong. We are just proclaiming loud 'Welcome to India you have entered one of the most corrupt countries on this planet'

When they repeat this behaviour elsewhere, others tend to generalise, profile us as as corrupt and arrogant. And they put in place special harassment systems.

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Aug 2008 17:15

Nayak wrote:I am posting this from changi airport onroute to desh. Indian airlines suck bigtime.

They have delayed the flight by 3 hours, and instead of flying directly to bangalore they are going via chennai.

Are you out of your mind, flying with those friggin parasites? . I guess only when KF starts Bangalore Singapore direct we can avoid those Air Parasites. Until then, make sure you fly SQ..

I have a strict policy to NEVER fly IA/AI if there are alternatives available. I simply dont want to put any revenue in those parasites hands and allow them to linger around longer and prolong everyone's misery, theirs and ours. They sooner they are put out of business the best.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 27 Aug 2008 18:15

Depending on the sector, if IA/SQ are the only viable alternatives, the price difference can be quite high. Chennai is more competitive because of Jet etc., but Bangalore is not. So the difference can be as high as 10-12k, that is a lot of pay for a couple of small cups..of wine i mean.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2008 07:25

The Long & Short of the Delhi Runway

As usual, an enlightening article from Capt. Ranganathan

Indians, on the other hand, seem to lack pride but not are not short on arrogance. Some of the recent statements made, especially in aviation, reveal this trait. For instance, at the inauguration of the new runway at Delhi airport the authorities claimed that the runway is the longest in Asia. Physically, yes, but operationally it is probably one of the worst-designed runways.

Every year, a survey is conducted and awards are given for the best ten airports in the world. This time around, the top five in the list has four from Asia — Hong Kong International, Singapore Changi, Seoul Incheon and Kuala Lumpur International. Munich spoilt the Asian party by taking the fifth spot. Kansai International is sixth. And Zurich airport, which partners the Bangalore International Airport project, is eighth. Is there any hope of any of the Indian airports making the cut? How do Indian airports figure in Olympian parlance, which we should modify to ‘Swifter, Higher and Longer’?

Haste makes waste?

The Delhi airport expansion plan was conceived in 1969 by the JRD Tata committee. The third runway was one of the recommendations. This suggestion was unheeded until 1996 when Airports Authority of India pushed for it again. The government took six long years and trashed the project.

The Commonwealth Games in 2011 seems to have given the project a fresh lease of life and the new entrant GMR was given just a few months to formulate the project. It appears that the lack of sufficient time has resulted in overlooking vital issues.

Any structure that comes up in the vicinity of airports requires clearance from the civil aviation authorities. The Tata committee report has been in place since 1969. Yet, in 1994, a 62-feet tall Shiv Murthi statue was installed near the expansion area. Who gave the clearance? While submitting the plan for the new runway, was GMR aware of the statue or did it choose to ignore the same? Was it overlooked because GMR had to be “Swifter”?

Connectivity, safety

The new airports in Bangalore and Hyderabad are claimed to be ‘world class’. To achieve that title, several requirements have to be met. While the runway and the ground facilities of the two airports seem to be of the required standard, they fall short in an important area — rapid connectivity to the city. When one looks at the airports that get selected for the top slots worldwide, the connectivity infrastructure is initiated even when the airport design is in the conceptual stage.

The two airports also fail in a very important safety aspect. While the builders have done a good job as regards construction of the runway and other ancillaries, the Airports Authority of India has erred badly in the installation of the Instrument Landing System Glide Slope in both Bangalore and Hyderabad.

An aircraft coming in to land normally descends on a 3-degree glide slope. Yet , the AAI has installed the glide slope to an angle of 3.30 degree at one airport and 3.40 degrees in the other, forcing the aircraft to descend more steeply than it needs to, that is, at 900-1000 feet per minute. As the structural limit for the landing gear (or the wheels of the aircraft) is only 600 feet per minute, pilots have to shift from the high sink rate to a rate less than 600 feet per minute just before landing with a flare manoeuvre. Any delay, either due to a judgement error or fatigue, can result in a hard landing or a tail strike.

This Glide Slope angle is steeper than the limit of 3.25 degrees set for instrument landing systems Category II or III that are used in poor visibility conditions. By taking the easy option, the Bangalore and Hyderabad airports will allow landings only when the visibility conditions are more than 550 metres.

Catch on the runway

The new runway at Delhi is 14,534 feet long — the longest in Asia. But there is a catch. The first 4,800 feet is not available for landing because of the Shiv Murthi statue, which was installed 25 years after the parallel runway concept was initiated. The longest runway, therefore, gets shortened. The owners of the airport have plans to build four parallel runways by 2050. Are they sure that more statues or high rise buildings will not come up in the vicinity? Will they be able to prevent them when political patronage plays a very large part in infrastructure?

The problem does not end there. To facilitate increased number of aircraft operations, the airport design does provide for high speed exits from the runways. But are they practical? The first high-speed exit on the new runway is just 5,955 feet from the displaced landing threshold. Airplanestouch down 1,500-2,100 feet from the threshold. The distance to the exit is too short, unless harsh braking is performed.

No passenger-carrying airline is going to do that. The next exit is 6,791 feet from the threshold. This again is too short, especially while landing in rain or in foggy conditions. This would mean that pilots would prefer to land on old runway 28.

The airports in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur have 13,000 feet runways, and Hong Kong’s is 12,500 feet. They are all used by fully loaded wide-body aircraft such as A-380, A-340, B-747 and B-777, on long-haul flights. The idea of spending so much money for a 14,500 feet runway that is not going to be used to the optimum beats logic.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 03 Sep 2008 10:45

Sorry dumb question - if the Shiv murthi is obstructing landing, can not aircraft land from other direction? In which case all of the length is available? And take off from the Shiv murthi side again getting the whole length? Or are runways, unlike cricket pitches designed to land only one dir?

Connectivity, access to airport problem is just one symptom of the wider infrastructure disease and urban decay in India...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Sep 2008 12:19

why cant this Shiv murti be just relocated nearby on some land donated by the
airport lets says infront of the terminal to let visitors know whose patch they are entering?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2008 17:01

Suppiah wrote:Sorry dumb question - if the Shiv murthi is obstructing landing, can not aircraft land from other direction? In which case all of the length is available? And take off from the Shiv murthi side again getting the whole length? Or are runways, unlike cricket pitches designed to land only one dir?

Suppiah, the aircraft land into the wind and take off similarly. In both cases, they want to get the lift. In the former, the lift will help them slow down and land smoothly and in the latter, the lift will allow them to lift-off the ground. You would have seen the wind direction indicators along the runways. It is the wind direction that will dictate landing & takeoff directions.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 11 Sep 2008 20:42

I am never going to travel by air-parasite again. Those buggers changed the direct flight status from Spore to B'lore to Spore - Chennai - B'lore. The travel time ended from 4 hours to 9 hours.

Some impressions on my trauma -

Boarding - They could not identify my air ticket number from the printout. I was made to wait for nearly 30 min where they checked the manifest and other details manually before they could confirm that I was the genuine maal.

No announcements were made on the delay of the flight. They told me bluntly that flight was delayed, and they could not confirm when the actual departure would happen. Since no pre-boarding announcement would be done, I had to park my musharraf in the departure area early. I spent 4 hours after security check waiting to board the aircraft. This is after I had walked into Changi 2 hours earlier from my original departure time.

The ground staff were callous and uncaring, there were many old couples and mothers with kids. No special privileges given for them to board the aircraft first. Everybody surged through the aircraft like savages bumping and swearing at each other.

I saw a mallu who tripped over a trolley and did a complicated bollywood dance step to avoid falling flat on his face, all the while swearing in malyalam.

Air-Hostess:

When I entered the Airbus A-320 from the aero-bridge, I see this 40 year old dark-skinned fat aunty, normally the ones you find behind the desk rapping the knuckles of horny teenagers saying with a scowl - "Belcome to Air Indiya".

None of the air-hostess looked young or in shape,

, they didnt even bother to turn up until after the aircraft was up in the air for 30 minutes.

No alcohol was served and the food was disgusting. An egg yolk ommellette curled over spinach. The guy next to me was unsure if the food was edible and waited for me to complete the meal, before taking a bite.

Aircraft

Old, old and old, just like the air-hostesses. The insides were grimy and I could see dust everywhere. There were puke marks on the seats and nothing much was visible from the window since it was yellow-caked with dirt.

None of the seats would recline and the pouches in the seats were not cleaned. I shuddered to think what foreign objects I would find if I decided to put my hand in it.

There was no inflight entertainment system. Some dood plucking the tamboori was the background music during the entire length of the flight.

All in all one of the worst experiences I had. After being spoilt by Kingfisher/Singapore Airways/Jet/Emirates, I realize how far behind Air Parasite is, they have a long way to go to get the service ethos right.

All in all, I think this will be my first and last experience in Air Parasite, I will do my best not to prolong it's miserable existence by giving my hard earned dollars.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Sep 2008 20:44

looks like you had a rough time birader. now that you are home - relax and focus on key areas like
drink and marriage proposals to recover.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 12 Sep 2008 00:10

Nayak wrote: Air-Hostess:

When I entered the Airbus A-320 from the aero-bridge, I see this 40 year old dark-skinned fat aunty, normally the ones you find behind the desk rapping the knuckles of horny teenagers saying with a scowl - "Belcome to Air Indiya".

None of the air-hostess looked young or in shape, , they didnt even bother to turn up until after the aircraft was up in the air for 30 minutes.

hmmm...... this section is where stuff goes offtrack.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Sep 2008 00:18

GAGAN project gets Govt nod

GAGAN project gets Govt nod

Our Bureau

New Delhi, Sept 11

In a move, which will allow seamless navigation and better use of Indian air space, the Government on Thursday approved a joint proposal of Airports Authority of India (AAI) and the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) to implement Global Position System aided Geo Augmented Navigational system or GAGAN programme.
Seamless navigation

The complete implementation of the programme will allow India to have satellite-based navigation system instead of the ground-based navigation system being adopted at present. “The operationalisation of the system will allow seamless navigation over Indian air space apart from a enabling aircraft to navigate a straight route instead of navigating a zig-zag path over land based stations at present. Besides, the system will provide coverage of oceanic areas which is not possible with a terrestrial system,” said a senior official of the Ministry of Civil Aviation.
Two phases

The programme will be realised in two phases – the GAGAN technology demonstration system, which was completed in August last year and the final operation phase to be implemented for operations use and to be certified by the Directorate General of Civil Aviation. This phase is expected to be completed by May 2011.

India will become only the fourth country globally to implement such a programme.

The cost of the project is estimated at Rs 774 crore of which Rs 148 crore was spent during the TDS phase while the remaining amount will be spent to implement the final operation phase, officials said.

AAI is expected to contribute Rs 596 crore, which will be mainly garnered from internal resources, while ISRO will contribute Rs 178 crore from its budget.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 12 Sep 2008 10:37

hnair wrote:

hmmm...... this section is where stuff goes offtrack.

Dood, the return trip was atleast okay, one of the AH was good looking and totally hawt in the saree.

One question, air parasite AH have uniforms in two colours, blue and orange.

Always found the good looking ones in orange and the yucky ones in blue.

Also why the **** cant they wear a backless choli ? On second thoughts, no one would want to see a hairy back on an fugly example of beauty/booty.

AshokS · Post by **AshokS** » 14 Sep 2008 03:29

Got back from India this week after a nice 2 week vacation/work trip. Took 4 different airlines during the trip... even Air India so I have to disagree with others on the service levels, thought it was quite good.

Took the following:

American: B-777: Business: To Delhi
Nonstop to India. Service was decent for a business class trip. Seats the now common cocoon style, though not as spacious as other airlines in the same class. LCD was small, the food was usual Indian veg/non veg fare. The seat was a little hard, and the in flight power for the laptop kept disconnecting for some strange reason. The service was good and bad. The good, was that the Pilot announced several times we are heading for the "Great Nation of India" a few times on departure and upon arrival in Indian airspace that we have now entered the "Great Nation of India". Felt nice to hear that. Overall the service was good, there was an incident with one air hostess that was screaming at an elderly Indian couple in business class that could not understand her. We made a complaint and the air hostess was extremely polite to that couple for the rest of the trip.

Jetlite: Bombardier CRJ: Econ
First time taking these guys in the JetLite incarnation, flew them many times before as Air Sahara and the service was good. The only change is they charge you for food.

IndiGo: A320: Econ:
First time flying them. Very Impressed. Wow... nice interiors on the plane, not overdone like Kingfisher. Single class of service, very modern airplane, crew uniforms. Better than any US airline and most Euros as well, if not all of them.

Jet : B737: Econ:
Flew them twice, good service as usual. The crew wore sharp uniforms, look good. The "executive" hostess looked hot, nice overall service. Liked the touchscreen individual displays in econ. Lots of content, movies, tv, music, etc.

Air India: B-777: Business: To JFK
Nonstop to NY. Nice service. The plane entertainment system has all the bells and whistles (color effects for the plane interior lighting and outside camera views). Large screens for the entertainment system (17 inches), they gave the Bose headsets. Food was very good. Service was excellent. The crew, though not of Jet/Kingfisher, was attractive and better than any US airline or BA/Lufthansa/Air France for that matter. Seats were the cocoon type, softer cushions, with more features than the American Airlines one in terms of controls, etc. Lot more leg room. Inflight power worked, they have the Indian plug type, so there was not a need for a power inverter (unlike the AA flight). They gave the usual vanity pack, then the slippers, and a "pierre cardin" night robe. The blankets was clean and had a nice lemon smell. The duvet and pillows were plush and white, looked very clean - they always made it a point to fold them after you got up. Food bar throughout the trip.

I have flown to India in business class in almost all major carriers (Delta, Continental, British Airways, American, Air France, Lufthansa, Air India, SAS, Swiss, Thai) and others (JAL, Northwest) on other trips - I have to say that the Air India experience was amongst one of the best. Yes there are some opportunities for improvement in check-in, boarding, and the lounge - but its the case for most airlines departing India.
The service is also good value for money. About $5K on Air India vs $6-$7K for Continental, and $8 for Emirates. At $5K, its a good deal. I will fly them more often.

Some pics attached below:

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 14 Sep 2008 07:12

Sure thing! The bijness class was nice onlee. It is the cattle class (aka sardine class) that matters.

Had to say this because I have seen it multiple times. Someone complains about cattle class and someone else refutes it with bijness class experience. And that too on the flagship service!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Sep 2008 10:29

AshokS wrote:I have to say that the Air India experience was amongst one of the best. Yes there are some opportunities for improvement in check-in, boarding, and the lounge

AshokS, I agree. It is the ground handling that leaves a lot to be desired for AI.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 14 Sep 2008 20:48

Dileepji, I have only travelled cattle class in AI from the US east coast and Chicago, most recent was 2 yrs ago and I am relatively happy. No complaints. Ground service if you miss connections in Mumbai is another story. Those locals at the airport there need some training in customer service.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 14 Sep 2008 22:06

I myself am a dhimmi village boy who feels thankful that the kind massa is allowing him to enter the flying machine. So, I am happy as long as I get from point A to point B without crashing. Things like a seat to park the butt and food to eat are bonuses. What else can you expect from the cheapest seat available?

So, I never had much of complaints on any airline, because till now, none of them crashed, and mostly got me where I wanted to go.

People explaining how good the bijness and first class is piss me off. Why? Pure unadulterated jealousy!!

AshokS · Post by **AshokS** » 14 Sep 2008 22:13

Dileepji - I have also flown Air India in econ, the inflight service was pretty decent... not sure why people would prefer a foreign airline over an Indian one. Generally you get treated better..

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Sep 2008 02:22

Ashoks

you kidding

you telling me that Cathay, Singapore and other Asian airlines treat us worse than Air India???

And wait till you miss oneor one gets delayed

AshokS · Post by **AshokS** » 15 Sep 2008 06:15

I am sure the Asian airlines provide good service, but generally in-flight treatment in Air India, Jet, KF, etc will be better than if you fly an American/Euro or Asian airline.

Agree with the ground handling issues.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Sep 2008 12:25

I also flew Air India a few times, it was not a bad experience really. IMO the worst airline is South African Airways. Pathetic service. The stewardesses actually put on a scowl.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 22 Sep 2008 14:49

Kingfisher cuts 300 jobs; to return surplus aircraft

NEW DELHI: In an effort to tide over rough weather that has gripped the aviation industry, Vijay Mallya-promoted Kingfisher Airlines is cutting 300 jobs, besides returning surplus aircraft.

"As part of a concerted company-wide effort aimed at minimising the impact of the ongoing turbulence faced by the aviation industry, Kingfisher Airlines has, over the last six months, embarked on a series of restructuring measures designed to achieve cost savings and rationalisation and operational efficiencies," a company spokesperson said.

"As a result, a set of 300 employees have chosen to move on and have parted ways with the company and/or put in their resignations," he added.

The carrier is also returning surplus aircraft to lessors, which are now redundant consequent upon route rationalisation, he added.

"We have already returned two aircraft and are closely monitoring aircraft utilisation," the spokesperson said.

Elaborating the reasons behind downsizing of staff, he said as the process of integration of the two entities (Kingfisher and Simplifly Deccan) nears completion, the carrier examined the complete organisation structure of the airline and mapped the skill sets of the existing talent pool with the projected talent requirements of the company.

"Many employees were counselled on their career path progression and best utilisation of their individual skill sets," he said.

As a token of goodwill, the carrier is offering all these employees a severance package equal to two months gross salary for every completed year of service (subject to a minimum of 3 months pay-out), the spokesperson said.

Kingfisher Airlines currently operates 424 domestic flights and two international flights with a total of 86 aircraft.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/King ... 512663.cms

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Sep 2008 16:15

Ashok

I only compares AI - Jet , KF are diff for the time being

AI is nowhere compared to other Asian airlines (my first choice). The Asian ones are streets ahead of the rest (American\EU ) incuded.

Now in some ways they are better than American\Euro airlines but the American \Brit\German ones are efficient.

And if there are tech problems or missed connections there are more options with these guys.

Surya

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 24 Sep 2008 06:33

Jet project
New Delhi, September 23:

-The Centre has approved a Rs 4,000-crore project to make a passenger jet that defence public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited wants to build...

-They projected a demand for 1,230 regional jets by 2026.

-a twin-engined jet with a capacity to seat 72 to 110 passengers...."I cannot tell you right now what kind of an aircraft it will be,” Baweja said

-The military version of the aircraft is likely to gradually replace the AN-32 transporters that are the workhorse of the Indian Air Force.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 24 Sep 2008 09:13

Reminds me of a Faily Oddparents episode, where Timmy (and everyone else) changed into a grey blob. He shouts "Cosmo, Wanda, Here I come" and moves like a snail does.

Embrair! Bombardier! Here I come!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2008 09:18

and they think it will happen in 4000cr

boeing/abus spend close to such money designing
just new wings alone.

just another pie in sky - they should have tied up with Embraer and built the MTA as Indo-Brazil
80:20 venture and avoided the tamasha with Russia. would have built up vital skills.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 24 Sep 2008 13:12

Never fly Emirates if you're a desi on a non-Gelf sector. Sucks.
Flew Mumbai - Dubai, Dubai-Paris, economy.

The Gelf sector was fine, on the Paris sector, they forgot to load up Indian Vegetarian food, apparently didn't take our requests into account from Mumbai. A nice airhostess got us some food from 1st Class, another crazy one comes running out after her.. "Eet eezn't yoooors, Eet eezn't yooors.. whai yooo eet???"

Needless to say, cheesed us off big time. Same issue on the way back from Rome -> Dubai. Ridiculous!

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 24 Sep 2008 13:45

Thank your kaafir gods that you weren't asked to vomit the food

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 24 Sep 2008 14:07

India’s quest to make civil aircraft begins

Sandeep Dikshit

NEW DELHI: The entire brains trust of Indian aviation – scientists, developers and operators – met here on Tuesday to initiate an ambitious project to manufacture civil regional aircraft. The mission would be to make a cheap, rugged and easy to maintain 70 to 110-seater civilian aircraft that should start rolling out within a decade.

The programme will be the third-prong of India’s quest to become self-sufficient in making fixed wing aircraft. The other two programmes relate to the next generation fighter aircraft and military transport plane for which India has tied up with Russia. Alexsei Fedorov, chief of United Aircraft Corporation, the umbrella company of Russia’s aviation industry, is arriving here towards the end of this month to finalise plans in this regard.

“We are shortly going to send a spacecraft to the Moon and we are still importing civil aircraft. India has all the capabilities and we must make them a reality,” said Defence Minister A. K. Antony who chaired the meeting.

As The Hindu reported on Monday, the Government is yet to decide on aspects such as work share, funding, and whether the aircraft will have a turbo-prop or turbo jet engine. “It is too early for these details. The team entrusted with the task will soon come back with a detailed project report,” said sources.

The time from development to certification is estimated at six years. The plane should roll off four to six years after the certification. In case the project is successful India will join a select group of companies manufacturing 70 to 110-seater jets with a range of 3,000 km. Companies currently making such planes are Embraer, Bombardier, Mitsubishi, Sukhoi and AVIC of China.

The roll call of those present at the meeting indicates the government’s seriousness in pursuing the proposal whose development cost has been pegged at Rs. 4,000 crore.

Those at the brainstorming session included Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister T. K. A. Nair, Defence Secretary Vijay Singh, Civil Aviation Secretary M. Nambiar, Council for Scientific and Industrial Research Director General Samir Brahmachari, Space Commission Chairman Madhavan Nair, National Aerospace Laboratories’ Kota Harinarayana and A. R. Upadhyaya, Aeronautical Development Agency Director P. S. Subramaniam, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Chairman Ashok Baweja and representatives of Defence Research & Development Organisation and Air India.

The meeting concluded that India has the technical base as also the resources to develop an aircraft of this size for both domestic and international markets.

To be called the “Indian Regional Transport Aircraft,” it will reduce import dependence to a considerable degree. India estimates that it will require over 1,200 of 70-110 seater aircraft by 2026. Most members at the meeting felt the environmental performance of the aircraft in terms of noise and carbon emission will be the main criteria for it to make a dent in the international market.

The HAL will play the lead role while the Ministry of Defence will supervise the project.

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Unless the pvt sector is involved in a big way I see this as another file moving project by the incompetent baboos.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 25 Sep 2008 10:47

Tiff was waiting to happen: Pilots
25 Sep 2008, 0337 hrs IST,TNN

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Kolk ... 524221.cms

KOLKATA: An incident like the tiff that broke out between a senior captain of Air India (AI) and Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) jawans on Tuesday afternoon was just waiting to happen, feel pilots.

"There have been numerous instances when securitymen have needlessly been provocative and nitpicking on the baggage carried by cockpit crew. It was only restraint on our part that prevented the situation from escalating. But on Tuesday, it was way too much to let go without protest," said Indian Commercial Pilots' Association (ICPA) central president and regional secretary R Khiangte.

He recalled instances when CISF personnel had repeatedly created a fuss over scissors to trim moustache and shaving blades in pilots' luggage. "It was only when we got an official communique issued from Delhi that the harassment stopped," he said.

On Thursday, veteran captain M K Singh was asked to check his bag into the registered baggage counter as its size was bigger than the dimensions permissible in the cabin. This wasn't the first time that CISF securitymen have raised an objection.

"Pilots are usually rostered in such a way that they spend two-three nights away from the base station. They have to carry two-three sets of clothes. Many a time, it involves a stop-over in a foreign country where there's an opportunity to shop. Hence, the need to carry a larger bag. It is not a problem as the bag goes into the cockpit and not overhead lockers," Khiangte pointed out.

The reason why captains don't submit bags in the registered baggage section is because it is time-consuming to get it X-rayed and checked in. After the flight, too, they would have to wait at the conveyer belt for luggage to arrive. "On the way in, we are often in a hurry as there are pre-flight checks and flight preparations to be done," the ICPA office bearer explained.

Though Tuesday's impasse had threatened to disrupt flight schedules after ICPA issued a directive asking member pilots to keep off Kolkata airport, the embargo was lifted late at night after the two warring sides reached a settlement.

The two sides have also found a solution to the oversized baggage problem. Henceforth, AI pilots will deposit the baggage at the check-in desk. It will then be X-rayed and passed along the conveyor belt. Meanwhile, the pilot will go through security check with his flight bag containing manuals, charts, emergency handbook, torchlight, laptop and other equipment. He will then be able to collect the other bag from the apron in the presence of CISF men and carry it into the aircraft cockpit," he said.

Pilots also complained that unlike other metro airports, there are no separate entry and exit gates for airline crew. "In Kolkata, they don't even have a sideboard stating ‘priority crew'," a senior pilot pointed out.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 Sep 2008 11:07

In this one, I am kinda with the CISF chaps. Per senior managers who have to pamper them, AI and IA apparently have the most arrogant pilots on earth. All thanks to the booming airliner scene. Apparently the most bitter are those who cannot find jobs anywhere else, they stick around in the Gubmint airlines. And I have also heard how CISF guys are so duty driven that some of them stay for double shifts lasting more than 16 hours, because some unscheduled flights happened due to delays elsewhere or a lowlife (aka VVIP) suddenly decides to sully the airport and needs unwarranted security. And they do get postal with everybody, including their off duty buddies. One of the reasons why Indian airports are relatively free of incidents, considering the "south asian" scum that goes through the airports, are because of these no-nonsense women and men. And I always felt that they are usually really polite, when compared to say, the state police.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 25 Sep 2008 16:52

hnair wrote: And I always felt that they are usually really polite, when compared to say, the state police.

As far as I know CISF has a "primer course" for men who get posted for Airport duty. They are given info on the importance of them being there, and also the fact they are one of the first "Indian Govt. officials" who foreigners would be first meeting. There was a marked difference in the attitudes of local police who used to provide security as HAL Airport (Bangalore) and the CISF chaps who later took over the security.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 25 Sep 2008 17:57

harbans wrote:The stewardesses actually put on a scowl.

You should try the Mallustan-Gulf sector on AI then. The flight attendants actually shout at the passengers (or used to at any rate. I don't know how things are now).
I know some people who will pay good money to be verbally abused by females in uniform. Maybe AI should offer special S&M flights.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 25 Sep 2008 19:05

Purush wrote:You should try the Mallustan-Gulf sector on AI then. The flight attendants actually shout at the passengers (or used to at any rate. I don't know how things are now).

The cabin crew would also have lots of tales to tell about the way some of the passengers in this sector behave. There have been very many cases in which passengers have got drunk, absued/fought each other or acted smart with the cabin crew. Many of these passengers also have a "I pay for the flight, now I am the majarajah out here" kind of attitude to boot. Mind you, for these passengers this is the only rare chance where they can act as a "boss". Try the same with their Arab employers/sponsors, that would be it.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 26 Sep 2008 00:53

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/09/26/stories/2008092650891000.htm

User fee for Bangalore airport to be lower than Hyderabad’s

Ashwini Phadnis

New Delhi, Sept. 25 Flying within India from Bangalore will soon be cheaper than from Hyderabad. Domestic passengers flying out from the new greenfield Bangalore could be charged a User Development Fee (UDF) of between Rs 230-260 as against Rs 375 being charged by Hyderabad airport.

A final decision on the exact fee to be charged by Bangalore is expected shortly with the proposal being examined at the highest level in the Ministry of Civil Aviation. Official sources told Business Line that a lower level of UDF at Bangalore is being planned as it handles higher number of passengers as compared to Hyderabad airport.

A spokesperson for Bangalore airport said that the airport handles 3,000 passengers during peak hours of which almost 82 per cent of the passengers are domestic travelers. The official, however, did not give details of how many hours a day were considered as peak hours by the airport. In the case of Hyderabad the airport handles about 7.5 million passengers annually of which about 65-70 per cent are domestic travellers.

While the GMR-promoted greenfield airport has already started charging UDF from domestic passengers, the Siemens-promoted Bangalore will be allowed to charge this fee after the Government gives the nod. The UDF is levied to enable the developers of the private sector airport to recover a part of the project cost.

Interestingly when it comes to UDF to be paid by passengers travelling abroad, Bangalore charges Rs 1,070 or Rs 70 more than what is charged by Hyderabad.

The new airport in Hyderabad started operations on March 16 this year, while Bangalore airport opened at the end of May.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 26 Sep 2008 01:26

Purush wrote:
harbans wrote:The stewardesses actually put on a scowl.
You should try the Mallustan-Gulf sector on AI then. The flight attendants actually shout at the passengers (or used to at any rate. I don't know how things are now).
I know some people who will pay good money to be verbally abused by females in uniform. Maybe AI should offer special S&M flights.

About ten years back, I flew to Muscat from Delhi by Air India. the plane was mostly empty. The air-hostess, about 45 to 50 years, got tea in a flask and was going up and down the aisle, prodding the mostly semi-literate labour-class passengers: "Chai lalo bhaiya, chai, chai. Haan jee bolo, aapko chai chahiye? Chai, Chai...) It was much like you hear small time tea vendors at the railway stations ...

Then the air hostess took up a vacant seat, and I could hear her snoring mid-flight.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 26 Sep 2008 07:34

Air hostesses grounded over weight moves SC
10 Sep 2008, 2232 hrs IST,PTI

NEW DELHI: Five Indian Airlines air hostesses, who were grounded for putting on excessive weight, have approached the Supreme Court challenging the Delhi High Court's order which has upheld the airlines' decision.

Filing the petition through their advocate Arvind Shrama, the air hostesses alleged that the High Court dismissed their plea without going into the core issue involved in the case.

The High Court on June 4, had dismissed their petition saying that there was no unreasonableness or arbitrariness in the airlines' decision.

"Grace and concessions are not matters of legal right. They are matters of policy and we do not find any illegality in the decision," the court had said.

The High Court in its judgement had emphasised that the job of air hostess being "strenuous" in nature one needed to be physically fit.

"The air crew has to be athletic to deal with any emergency and for that he or she has to be in good shape. That is the reason that not only maximum limit but minimum weight limits are also prescribed," the Court had said, adding that neither anorexic nor abysmally fat people are fit for the job.

"The nature of work of air hostesses is strenuous in nature and the weight check is relevant in relation to their physical fitness," the Bench said.

The Bench pointed out that in the highly competitive industry of civil aviation, the company has to focus on the personality of its employees.

"Statistics reveal that overweight persons face constant challenges to their emotions which include remarks from strangers, discrimination at work, lower self-esteem and poor body image," the High Court had said.

Old article, western airlines have a standard size of uniform. If the air-hostesses cannot fit into it, they are discreetly given a hint to either stay fit or get out. Also fat air-hostesses cannot move around the aircraft which has narrow spaces between aisles.

These air-parasite fuglies should be thrown into a fiery volcano as an offering to Odin and Ra.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 26 Sep 2008 07:37

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
About ten years back, I flew to Muscat from Delhi by Air India. the plane was mostly empty. The air-hostess, about 45 to 50 years, got tea in a flask and was going up and down the aisle, prodding the mostly semi-literate labour-class passengers: "Chai lalo bhaiya, chai, chai. Haan jee bolo, aapko chai chahiye? Chai, Chai...) It was much like you hear small time tea vendors at the railway stations ...

Then the air hostess took up a vacant seat, and I could hear her snoring mid-flight.

The situation has not changed. On my spore-chennai-blore flight last time, auntie walked around with a steaming flask on a bumpy flight, offering chai/coffee to abduls.

They also refused to provide blankets as they had run out of them.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 26 Sep 2008 22:32

Sachin wrote:
Purush wrote:You should try the Mallustan-Gulf sector on AI then. The flight attendants actually shout at the passengers (or used to at any rate. I don't know how things are now).
The cabin crew would also have lots of tales to tell about the way some of the passengers in this sector behave. There have been very many cases in which passengers have got drunk, absued/fought each other or acted smart with the cabin crew. Many of these passengers also have a "I pay for the flight, now I am the majarajah out here" kind of attitude to boot. Mind you, for these passengers this is the only rare chance where they can act as a "boss". Try the same with their Arab employers/sponsors, that would be it.

Mate, tell me about it. Took Gulf Air, LHR - BAH - BOM. In transit at Bahrain, one of the passengers(ordinary construction labourer types) was soo drunk, started lieing on the floor. The guy was out of it, and his friend was slapping him, and throwing water on him, so that he would sober up. As you can imagine all this was attracting crowds of people staring at all this. He was lucky, the police didn't come and kick the shit out of him, especially when he was finally dragged into the line, he was falling all over passengers. Was really embarrasing. Somehow he managed to get past the security before boarding onto the flight. But as he was being shown to the seat, the air hostess noticed that he was piss drunk, and security was called, he was removed from the flight, as he had vomited on the floor. He was part of the group who was repatriated back to India by the Indian High Commission after labour disputes, as he was holding one of those temporary passports.

Sam CS · Post by **Sam CS** » 27 Sep 2008 02:26

Purush wrote:
harbans wrote:The stewardesses actually put on a scowl.
You should try the Mallustan-Gulf sector on AI then. The flight attendants actually shout at the passengers (or used to at any rate. I don't know how things are now).
I know some people who will pay good money to be verbally abused by females in uniform. Maybe AI should offer special S&M flights.

The ones to and from Singapore are usually much more subdued, but equally interesting.

I have seen several passengers snap their fingers to call the flight attendants on SQ. Granted they don't speak English, but snapping fingers...?

Most interesting passenger was deegent looking lady in 50s who got on SQ flight and sat on the wrong seat. The rightful owner of seat requests, shouts, screams, begs. The lady plays deaf. Flight attendants tried the same and then seated the other gentleman elsewhere

.