IAF at Red Flag / Nellis AFB 2008

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 17 Aug 2008 22:37

Rahul Shukla wrote:
shiv wrote:Incidentally - where exactly is Nellis AFB in the US?
Map from Global Security: Clicky.

Here is the Google map for the same. The terrain and airspace around the base is devoid of anything literally.

Nellis AFB

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Aug 2008 00:10

Kakarat wrote:http://www.nellis.af.mil/photos/

exploring the panther eh!~ !?!?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2008 07:21

ChandraS wrote:
Rahul Shukla wrote: Map from Global Security: Clicky.
Here is the Google map for the same. The terrain and airspace around the base is devoid of anything literally.

Nellis AFB

Thanks guys - but I was really looking for "where" as in is it near New York or Washington or LA. Anyhow zooming out shows it is in Nevada which is what NV stands for and not Non Veg as I mistakenly thought. (Don't know how popular vegetarianism is in NV)

Appears to be 500 miles from the sea and fairly close to busy US civil air routes. Naturally, night flying would make the need for holding patterns in the sky much less likely. Just a guess.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Aug 2008 07:54

Some time ago after taking off from LV and looping around to head east, the pilot asked us to take a look out the left window--six USAF Thunderbirds were taking off in formation from Nellis (their base) in the same direction that we were going. We were assured that this happens all the time w/o problems.

malushahi · Post by **malushahi** » 18 Aug 2008 08:02

shiv wrote:(Don't know how popular vegetarianism is in NV)

Very, very vegetarian actually - a punyakshetra that is the lone counterweight to all the holy lands east of the meridian.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Aug 2008 08:27

malushahi wrote:
shiv wrote:(Don't know how popular vegetarianism is in NV)
Very, very vegetarian actually. Happens to be the counterweight to Varanasi in this part of the globe. Hence the sobriquet for Las Vegas.

As a norm,Vegas is full of meat , warm,hot,fresh and happy.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Aug 2008 08:47

aha, the food and wine thread has invaded the military forum !

could you guys restrict info of the eating habits of the vegans to the relevant thread ?
please ?

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 18 Aug 2008 14:28

guys check this

http://indianairforce.nic.in/show_press ... ews_id=337

On being asked about Network Centric Operations (NCW) in IAF Air Mshl Naik said “Network Centric Warfare capability is vital and indispensable in today’s warfare. IAF is a network enabled Air Force and we are progressing towards complete network centricity very fast. Network Centricity involves linking the ground, air and space assets together so as to have complete situational awareness. For this we are in the process of laying a network of fiber optics data links called the AF Net which will be a part of the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS). The integration of Operational Data Link on the airborne platforms of IAF will complete the chain. The connectivity of platforms will be “Written” on them. In the month of October we are expecting the AWACS which will be a crucial link in our network centricity.”

So AWACS is arriving this year?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 Aug 2008 14:34

He acted very smartly and didn't say which year

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 18 Aug 2008 14:41

krishnan wrote:He acted very smartly and didn't say which year

So this can mean one extra year of delay also

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 Aug 2008 15:16

I will put my nuts on the line and predict it will be 2009.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Aug 2008 15:33

ChandraS wrote: Here is the Google map for the same. The terrain and airspace around the base is devoid of anything literally.

I wouldn't say that. its a very stunning and spectacular vast and open desert landscape with high snow capped mountains, deep gorges, canyons and mesas; dotted with huge cactii, joshua trees, tumble weed and a profusion of wildlife. Deep within the canyons and on the high mesas are the remains of ancient native american cultures, stunning rock art, deserted mountain top strongholds and the mystical abode of spirits!! Watched by the great thunderbird, the mustangs and antelope run free (within federal lands that is!) - old gold mines and ghost towns and the trails of red men, the conquistadors and gunfighters and cattle rustlers...

and lets not talk of area 51, and the 'alien abduction highway' and the cathouses and gambling dens and the bright lights of vegas!

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 18 Aug 2008 18:06

Indian Airmen celebrate Independence day at US Air Force Base

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/new ... s/1830593/

and also...

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=41391

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Aug 2008 21:47

see the fighter pilot op red flag film in youtube to get some idea. Lalmohan has perfectly
described it. I spent a few hrs in a place called "valley of fire" for its red volcanic rocks
near las vegas....its quite easy at ground level to get lost among the rock formations..and there's always a bunch of rattlers, scorpions and lizards to contend with.
some rugged types trek into these lands either at dawn and wait until midday when the
sun is overhead and the canyon interiors are lit up red. they then proceed to photo various non-veg food for certain men's magazines in dem canyons.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 19 Aug 2008 01:21

Lalmohan wrote:
ChandraS wrote: Here is the Google map for the same. The terrain and airspace around the base is devoid of anything literally.
I wouldn't say that. its a very stunning and spectacular vast and open desert landscape with high snow capped mountains, deep gorges, canyons and mesas; dotted with huge cactii, joshua trees, tumble weed and a profusion of wildlife. Deep within the canyons and on the high mesas are the remains of ancient native american cultures, stunning rock art, deserted mountain top strongholds and the mystical abode of spirits!! Watched by the great thunderbird, the mustangs and antelope run free (within federal lands that is!) - old gold mines and ghost towns and the trails of red men, the conquistadors and gunfighters and cattle rustlers...

and lets not talk of area 51, and the 'alien abduction highway' and the cathouses and gambling dens and the bright lights of vegas!

Lalmohan & Singha:

What I meant to say was there isn't much that restricts the air operations. I guess it could have been phrased better. As regards to the splendour of the landscape, not much to add to Lalmohan's description. I have been to some of those places and was blown away by the beauty and majesty of the landscape.

BTW, did you know that nearly 80% of Nevada is owned by the Federal Government

Area 51 is just the tip of the iceberg.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 19 Aug 2008 02:43

ChandraS and Singha, perhaps you'd care to join me with a few cold ones and a DVD of "High Plains Drifter"?

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 19 Aug 2008 06:53

Lalmohan wrote:ChandraS and Singha, perhaps you'd care to join me with a few cold ones and a DVD of "High Plains Drifter"?

I am humbled to be invited for some zam-zam cola with the high priest of the erstwhile 'dhaaga'. But recent medical report indicates otherwise (something to do with dhadkan-e-dil)

I have yet to see the 'High Plains Drifter' but have seen the others from the 'Man with No Name'.

Just planned out a trip to Sin City with my friend for the upcoming long weekend. He can scope out the different meaty subjects while I traverse the 'Valley of Fire' aka Red Rock Canyon

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Aug 2008 08:20

Lalmohan arent you in UK ? whats on the agenda..hanging outside a paki housing society
and throwing rocks ?

Himanshu · Post by **Himanshu** » 19 Aug 2008 10:10

AWACS are arriving second half of this October or early November ...

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Aug 2008 14:39

shiv wrote: Appears to be 500 miles from the sea and fairly close to busy US civil air routes. Naturally, night flying would make the need for holding patterns in the sky much less likely. Just a guess.

Check this out for fun.

For live flight mapping: this

AF space is restricted area and ATC will route commercials around them.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 19 Aug 2008 14:55

http://pib.nic.in/photo/2008/Aug/l2008081919015.jpg
IAF Garuds getting ready for a para jump for the 'Radar Busting' Mission carried out at an Air filed in Nevada Desert on 18 Aug 08(US)/19 Aug 08(India).This is part of ongoing exercise Red Flag at Air Force base Nellis, USA.

http://pib.nic.in/photo/2008/Aug/l2008081919016.jpg

An IAF Garud in position for an assault during Radar Busting Mission carried out at an Air field in Nevada Desert on 18 Aug 08(US)/19 Aug 08(India). This is part of ongoing exercise Red Flag at Air Force base Nellis, USA.

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=41436&kwd=

Exercise Red Flag-: IAF’s special force 'Garuds' comes off age - Exhibit Mission Capability

The IAF's special force commandos 'The Garuds' successfully demonstrated their mission capability during the Exercise Red Flag, when they neutralized an enemy Radar site capturing an Air Field and carrying out combat search and rescue operations, in Nevada desert USA.

The enemy airfield (Red Forces) was simulated at about 60 Kms from the border and was considered strategically important for the friendly forces. The intelligence report made available identified the location of airfield in desert terrain suggesting medium threat environment and adequate defensive measures. The Garuds were assigned the task of neutralizing the enemy radar site and capture the airfield in a stipulated time frame of two hours.

After acquiring all the necessary intelligence inputs, including those from satellite and Unmanned Ariel Vehicle (UAV), the Garud Force mission commander Flt LT Jagvinder Singh carried out a detailed analysis of terrain and topography, worked out an operational plan. The plan included heliborne insertion and exfilteration of the force. The Garud during this exercise mission used assault riles as primary weapons, pistols and combat knives as secondary weapons, LMGs, Navigation and communication equipment and All Terrain Vehicles (ATVs).

It may be recalled that the IAF formed its first Garud Flight in year 2005 with 60 commandos initially and the force has been progressively growing since then. The need for forming such a force was felt after the Kargil Operations and terrorist attacks on IAF airfields in insurgency affected areas. The Garuds are trained to protect airfields from enemy and terrorist attacks, carry out hostage rescue operations, ‘Radar Busting' etc. The Garuds also carry out the combat search and rescue missions (CSAR) for securing back Pilots from hostile territory.

"Capt Burry of USAF CSAR said "The Garuds have well executed all the assigned missions overcoming all the exercise limitations. The Garuds are a highly trained, motivated and mission oriented force. They never loose their focus and can achieve the near impossible task given to them"

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 19 Aug 2008 15:26

is that a combat radio mike i see on the garud?

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 19 Aug 2008 17:01

is that a combat radio mike i see on the garud?

Thats nothing new. I have seen a lot of pics of RR troops in Kashmir with the same.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 19 Aug 2008 17:58

2nd pic of that soldier with M16.
Doesn't look like Garuda with that rifle

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 19 Aug 2008 18:07

2nd pic of that soldier with M16.
Doesn't look like Garuda with that rifle

It is. The DPM is Indian so are the Jump Boots. Also the Combat Harness/Webbing has been recently seen on MARCOS and Other Indian SF pics recently.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 19 Aug 2008 18:24

Never knew Indians had M16s

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 19 Aug 2008 18:31

jamwal wrote:Never knew Indians had M16s

We don't. Borrowed from US as our rifles may not be compatible with Miles 2000 system (the red thingy attached to the barrel).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Aug 2008 18:31

x-training with friendly force weapons during exercise is common.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 19 Aug 2008 19:14

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/19iaf.htm

IAF's Garuds fly high over Nevada desert

Exhibiting superiority of tact and technique, Indian Air Force's special force commandos 'The Garuds' neutralised an enemy radar site, captured an air field and carried out combat search and rescue operations in the Nevada desert of the US, during Exercise Red Flag there.

Capturing the enemy airfield (Red Forces), simulated at about 60 km from the border and considered strategically important for friendly forces, the 'Garuds' overcame the medium threat environment and adequate defensive measures, neutralised the enemy radar site and captured the airfield within the stipulated two hours based on intelligence, which identified the location of the airfield in a desert terrain.

Elaborating, Defence sources said 'Garud' mission commander Flight Lieutenant Jagvinder Singh, after acquiring all the necessary intelligence inputs, including those from satellite and Unmanned Aeriel Vehicle, worked out an operational plan, which included heliborne insertion and exfilteration of the force, and accomplished the mission using assault rifles as primary weapons, and pistols and combat knives as secondary weapons, supported by LMGs, navigation and communication equipment and All Terrain Vehicles.

IAF's Garud Flight, established in 2005 with 60 commandos, was formed after the Kargil [Images] conflict and terrorist attacks on IAF airfields in insurgency-affected areas.

Garuds commandoes are trained to protect airfields from enemy and terrorist attacks, carry out hostage rescue operations and 'radar busting' besides carrying out combat search and rescue missions for securing back pilots from hostile territory.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 20 Aug 2008 07:18

58 Images from Ken Sekhon

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Aug 2008 07:27

Jagan wrote:

58 Images from Ken Sekhon

Love this one

Shows the primus stove nicely.

http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/31386-1 ... u30mki.jpg

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 20 Aug 2008 11:36

sunilUpa wrote:
jamwal wrote:Never knew Indians had M16s
We don't. Borrowed from US as our rifles may not be compatible with Miles 2000 system (the red thingy attached to the barrel).

If I am not wrong, I think that red thingy is a blank firing adapter used with blank cartridges otherwise the autoloading gun will not work. The Miles 2000 is attached to the barrel and not the muzzle.

http://www.peostri.army.mil/PRODUCTS/MI ... mitter.pdf

Cheers....

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 20 Aug 2008 16:31

40 images from Kedar Karmakar

vonkabra · Post by **vonkabra** » 20 Aug 2008 16:39

Query to forum gurus:

After the Cope India 2004 exercise, an article from "Inside the Air Force" [http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-ia ... cle01.html] included the following quotes:

“What happened to us was it looks like our red air training might not be as good because the adversaries are better than we thought" - Col. Mike Snodgrass, commander of the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf Air Force Base. “We have always believed that our technology was superior to everyone else’s technology, that we would fight a somewhat inferior adversary, so we have had to supply a simulated adversary from our own resources; we call that ‘red air,’”

As a result, Air Force pilots are used to flying against an enemy whose combat capability is deliberately limited.

One reason the Indian pilots proved so formidable is that their training regimen does not include a concept of “red air.” Instead, “they fly pretty much blue-on-blue . . . [a] full-up airplane with no restrictions against somebody else’s airplane with no restrictions, and that leads to more proficiency with your aircraft,” Neubeck said.

In addition to reinforcing the need for the F/A-22, therefore, Cope India demonstrated that the service might be able to immediately improve its air combat capability by changing the way Air Force pilots train.

“The Air Force is re-examining, from what I can understand, our concept of red air and how we might be able to provide red air to our fighter forces so that we get [the best] training we can afford,” Snodgrass said.

So:
1. Have they incorporated any lessons from Cope India 2004?
2. If not, was the quoted article's conclusion flawed in the first place?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 20 Aug 2008 17:10

Translation:

We need more F-22s. Please allocate budget or even dark skinned brownies will prevail over good ol' YooEssAay

I really doubt if the "deficiencies" are really as dire as he makes it out to be.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 20 Aug 2008 20:47

Jagan is applying final touches to the "IAF in action at RF-N" album, meanwhile other photos can be viewed here -
http://kedar.smugmug.com/gallery/574427 ... 8874_7yJJN

B/R
Kedar

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Aug 2008 21:16

the USAF assumed that since we had a lot of Soviet fighter aircraft, the way we flew was according to Soviet style command and control methodology, which the Americans had been practicising to defeat. Since the IAF flys much more on initiative and in a more free wheeling style, the USAF was suddenly faced with an opponent who didn't behave according to the script they are used to. They not only underestimated the IAF, but probably also the RuAF

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 20 Aug 2008 23:03

Hello Folks ... I am at Red Flag for this week. You will see a documentary on this soon. No questions just yet pls. Just a heads up.

Cheers
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor and Senior Anchor
NDTV

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Aug 2008 23:05

a thumbs up to that !

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Aug 2008 00:23

Lalmohan

you really think that the USAF was that dumb that they make such rigid assumptions!!!

Trust me at the end of the day - we get to learn a lot more from them.