Indian Naval Discussion

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 29 May 2009 22:40

i have a sdre pooch. does the indian navy have any AUVs? are we working towards their development, research etc.?

maz · Post by **maz** » 29 May 2009 22:49

Indian Navy heads for first Atlantic Ocean deployment

http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/1/15375.htm

Three warships and a fleet replenishment tanker from the Indian Navy’s Western Fleet have begun sailing for the Atlantic Ocean, where, besides port calls at many countries, they will conduct the Konkan exercise with the Royal Navy and the Varuna exercise with the French Navy.

“The Indian Navy will be holding an exercise with the British navy June 20-25 and with the French Navy June 30-July 4,” a senior Indian Navy official said, requesting anonymity.

The Indian Navy flotilla comprises the guided missile destroyer INS Delhi that is the biggest warship to be built in the country, the guided missile frigates INS Beas and INS Brahmaputra and the fleet tanker INS Aditya.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 May 2009 02:47

maz wrote:Rakesh, please add PTA Sqn to the list of Dega based units.

Maz, I have added this info. Please check it out at;

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Air-Arm.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 May 2009 03:38

SNaik wrote:Rakesh,

Russian sources claim that Project 61ME is equipped with newer MG-335 Platina sonar, the same as Pr.61MP for Soviet Navy, Titan/Vychegda was installed on original Project 61. Parus is gyrostabilization system for firecontrol radar Yatagan, the SAM is M-1 Volna-M (S-125M). Fire control for P-20M SSMs is provided by Korall-NKE with Baza-61ME gyrostabilization system. 4 PK-16 decoy launchers are installed. Torpedo launcher is PTA-33-61ME. The ship carries 7.8 tons of fuel for helicopter. Two M-3EE main power units were installed, rated at 40425 HP each.

Naik Boss: Which of the P61ME vessels have been fitted with the equipment you have mentioned above?

maz wrote:The Russian supplied sonars on the SNF's have since been upgraded with Humsa/ Humsa NG sets along with IAC Mod 0 FCS during refits. It is a safe bet to assume that all upgraded SNF's have BEL built sonar sets now.

Stupid Question....but what is a SNF?

maz · Post by **maz** » 30 May 2009 03:53

SNF = surinder nath frigates= IN codename for Kashins
SNM = IN codename for Natya MCMV

First 3 Kashins have Volna SAM, last two have upgraded volna-P or something like that. I need to check up some more on this.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/volna.htm

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 May 2009 08:18

shaardula wrote:does the indian navy have any AUVs? are we working towards their development, research etc.?

The Navy has no AUV’s at present.

The Navy is looking to buy AUV’s and there is a contract with Kongsberg for six HUGIN 1000’s. Please refer my post on page 6 of this thread.

DRDO is reportedly working on an AUV project and this is scheduled for completion in Dec 2009:

Unmanned Underwater Vehicles

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 30 May 2009 20:01

Rakesh wrote:
SNaik wrote:Rakesh,

Russian sources claim that Project 61ME is equipped with newer MG-335 Platina sonar, the same as Pr.61MP for Soviet Navy, Titan/Vychegda was installed on original Project 61. Parus is gyrostabilization system for firecontrol radar Yatagan, the SAM is M-1 Volna-M (S-125M). Fire control for P-20M SSMs is provided by Korall-NKE with Baza-61ME gyrostabilization system. 4 PK-16 decoy launchers are installed. Torpedo launcher is PTA-33-61ME. The ship carries 7.8 tons of fuel for helicopter. Two M-3EE main power units were installed, rated at 40425 HP each.
Naik Boss: Which of the P61ME vessels have been fitted with the equipment you have mentioned above?

Actually, they all should have this equipment initially, as this is the project specification for 61ME. Maz is right about Volna, first three had Volna-M, the last two- Volna-P (introduced in 1976) with better resistance to ECM and optical back-up targeting (televisor 9Sh33). It is possible though that the last two had Volna-N which was introduced around 1982 to counter sea-skimming targets.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 31 May 2009 07:09

Talk on SOA & open source at Indian Ocean Naval Symposium

From SANJIVA WEERAWARANA's Blog

Last week I was invited to give a talk at the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium's first Technical Summit, which was hosted by the Sri Lanka Navy. My talk was about the role of SOA and open source in building large scale net centric systems for defence purposes. My real objective was to try to encourage both local military as well as regional militaries to set up their own open source activity (similar to what the US govt has done with foss.mil) as well as to share and collaborate at least within the Indian Ocean region.

The IONS is a great idea .. all 32 (?) countries which touch the Indian ocean have a lot of common naval issues to deal with. Its wonderful to see India take leadership in setting this up and to see the kind of warm collaboration that appears to be forming. The coolest system was Singapore Navy's Information Fusion Centre (which started very recently) - a full service oriented system that allows regional cooperation and mashing up of all kinds of information sources to give them a complete operational picture.

Russia’s aircraft problem

The reconstruction of the aircraft carrier ”Admiral Gorshkov” for the Indian Navy will be done with losses for the Russian side, officials admit. The vessel is to be handed over to India in 2012.

Deputy Director of the Federal Service on military-technical cooperation Aleksandr Fomin confirms that the contract with the Indians will not bring profits to the Russian side, Korabelnaya Storona reports.

In negotiations with the Indian Navy late last year, the Russians demanded that the Indians pay up to two billion USD additional for the reconstruction. According to media reports, the Indian side has expressed willingness to pay, but has not yet provided necessary guarantees.

Missing sailor: a month on, police yet to file FIR

Commander Brian Goord: Royal Indian Navy staff

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 01 Jun 2009 01:00

Unknown vessel in chennai

Could anyone tell me what is this vessel?(looks like a heli carrier)

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Jun 2009 01:23

The French Le Mistral loading emergency relief supplies for Burma after Cyclone Nargis.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 01 Jun 2009 02:39

Navy steams to foreign shores to build bridges, project power

Guided-missile destroyer INS Delhi, missile frigates INS Beas and INS Brahmaputra, and fleet tanker INS Aditya will engage in high-intensity `Konkan' and `Varuna' wargames with British and French navies during the deployment.

But that's not all. The Indian warships will also undertake simple to complex `passage exercises' with Algerian, Royal Netherlands, German, Russian, Israeli, Turkish, Portuguese, Spanish, Moroccan, Hellenic, Egyptian and other navies, apart from making several port calls ranging from Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) and Massawa (Eritrea) to St Petersburg (Russia) and Naples (Italy).

This, by any standard, is a stunning overseas deployment. The Navy, of course, thinks `big' with `an aircraft carrier-centric mindset', and wants to be the most visible and potent maritime force in the entire Indian Ocean Region.

Navy chief: Indian Navy stabilizing force in Indian Ocean region

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 01 Jun 2009 17:08

http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.ns ... enDocument

Moscow, Jun 1 (PTI) India and Russia have finalised a new price for the aircraft carrier 'Admiral Gorshkov' after months of protracted negotiations and the refitted warship would be delivered to the Indian Navy by 2012, top Russian officials said today.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 02 Jun 2009 04:49

Indian warship on goodwill visit to Israel

U.S., U.K. seek observer status at IONS

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jun 2009 07:34

maz wrote:SNF = surinder nath frigates= IN codename for Kashins
SNM = IN codename for Natya MCMV

First 3 Kashins have Volna SAM, last two have upgraded volna-P or something like that. I need to check up some more on this.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/volna.htm

Thanks Maz. I will update the Kashin page again.

maz wrote:The Russian supplied sonars on the SNF's have since been upgraded with Humsa/ Humsa NG sets along with IAC Mod 0 FCS during refits. It is a safe bet to assume that all upgraded SNF's have BEL built sonar sets now.

So the MG-311 Vycheda hull mounted sonar has been replaced with the HUMSA sonar?

SNaik wrote:Actually, they all should have this equipment initially, as this is the project specification for 61ME. Maz is right about Volna, first three had Volna-M, the last two- Volna-P (introduced in 1976) with better resistance to ECM and optical back-up targeting (televisor 9Sh33). It is possible though that the last two had Volna-N which was introduced around 1982 to counter sea-skimming targets.

Okay, let me try to understand ur post...

1) Therefore, in addition to the MG-311 Vycheda hull mounted sonar and the Vyega MG-325 variable depth sonar, Indian Kashins also had the MG-335 Platina towed array sonar?

2) The Parus serves as the gyro stabilization system for the 4R90 Yatagan fire control radar which controls the S-125M SAM?

3) Fire control for P-20M SSM (SS-N-2D Styx) is provided by Korall-NKE with Baza-61ME gyro stabilization system?

4) What are the the pair of M-3EE main power units, rated at 40,425 HP each, used for?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jun 2009 07:56

Talking about Kashins...check this out;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67307569@N00/2368769029/

I tried looking for the specs of the Volna-M, Volna-N and Volna-P SAMs...but came up short. Any help that can be provided will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

maz · Post by **maz** » 02 Jun 2009 08:35

Rakesh, info on Volna / RZ-61 at

http://books.google.com/books?id=4S3h8j ... #PPA580,M1

As for what the M-3E powerplant does, hmmm, maybe you should try to figure it out.....

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jun 2009 08:53

RZ-61 that is how the Volna's are known in the IN (I used to get confused when I first came across Pechora pics on BRF, I never knew IAF had land based versions of the same SAM

); iirc INS Tunir (Karanja,Mumbai) is where these babies are kept and serviced .

Btw I remember IAF recieved a Newa-SCM package upgrade for their land based Pechora's, did IN too incorporate the relevant components from the same upgrade ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2009 18:06

An interesting point in Adm.Sureesh Mehta's speech in S'pore at the meet organised by the ISSS,about the In being a "stabilising force" in the in,fighting piracy,etc.He also said that it would protect the interest of the (Indian) "diaspora".This is a very welcome step by the GOI/MEA,which has at last realised the importance of Indians living abroad.When a single national of amajor western country is in danger or subject to arrest,etc. by another nation,the west ,especially countries like Britain go all out to assist their national in distress.Recently we saw tha cse of the US-Iranian lady journalist who was picked up for alleged spying by the Iranians and ater released by them.Her case was front page news for weeks.

However,in order to give teeth to assisting the Indian diaspora,the IN must have the neccessary clout by way of a far larger navy along with assets that can conduct operations at greater distances in any ocean.A true blue water fleet.This will require a few carriers,a similar number of amphibious flat tops of 30,000t+ along with AAW/ASW cruisers of 10-12,000t+ which we do not possess ,extra ocean going tankers and other auxiliaries to support the task force and a number of nuclear subs,able to operate far from home.This will require a sustained level of support from the defence/political establishment with along term perspective for the IN in view of the enormous and continuing build up of the PLAN which plans to "invade" the IOR too in the coming decade.True the diaspora is spread all over the globe,but the ION must be able to show the flag wherever the diaspora exists.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 02 Jun 2009 19:56

JaiS wrote:Indian warship on goodwill visit to Israel

Among the visitors was a former commander of the old INS Brahmaputra, Jack Japheth, now an Israeli citizen settled in Tel Aviv after retirement.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 02 Jun 2009 20:17

Rakesh wrote:[
Okay, let me try to understand ur post...

1) Therefore, in addition to the MG-311 Vycheda hull mounted sonar and the Vyega MG-325 variable depth sonar, Indian Kashins also had the MG-335 Platina towed array sonar?

2) The Parus serves as the gyro stabilization system for the 4R90 Yatagan fire control radar which controls the S-125M SAM?

3) Fire control for P-20M SSM (SS-N-2D Styx) is provided by Korall-NKE with Baza-61ME gyro stabilization system?

4) What are the the pair of M-3EE main power units, rated at 40,425 HP each, used for?

1) MGK-335 Platina is the name for sonar complex which is installed instead of MG-311Vychegda/MG-312Titan combination (both located in hull radome) and consists of MG-335 Titan-2 in hull radome and towed MG-325 Vega.

2) Correct

3) Correct

4) M-3E is export version of gas turbine powerplant with slightly upgraded power output.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 03 Jun 2009 01:29

Water trial of indigenous N-sub on August 15

NEW DELHI: After a series of setbacks, India's hunt for a nuclear submarine has finally gathered steam. For one, the new D-day for 'launching'

first indigenous nuclear submarine 'into water' for preliminary tests has been set for Aug 15.

For another, with a high-level delegation led by defence secretary Vijay Singh currently in Moscow, Russia has now promised to deliver its Akula-II class attack submarine 'K-152 Nerpa' on a 10-year lease to India by the end of this year.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jun 2009 02:19

Philip, The RIN was around 150 ships at its height in WWII. We need to bring it to that number with a core of ~100 ships for IN and the rest in collborative manner with littoral states.

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 03 Jun 2009 03:03

For the immediate future a strong case can be made for developing the Sri Lankan navy.

Reg. ATV-INS Raja Raja Chola(who else but Raja Raja and Rajendra?) there has been a false start already. Hopefully this August will bring in cheer!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Jun 2009 03:21

Russian Navy to commission Nerpa submarine in fall - source

"Following new official state sea trials in the summer, the sub will be put in service with the Navy in the fall of this year," the Russian naval source said.

He added that the Nerpa would be leased to the Indian Navy shortly after the commissioning, and said India had paid over $500 million for a 10-year lease of the 12,000-ton nuclear attack submarine.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Jun 2009 09:51

Snaik, Maz so are the new Kashins supposed to be equipped with redundant powerplants , for I don't know what else would a pair of M-3E be used for ?

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 03 Jun 2009 13:21

Rupesh wrote:Water trial of indigenous N-sub on August 15

NEW DELHI: After a series of setbacks, India's hunt for a nuclear submarine has finally gathered steam. For one, the new D-day for 'launching'

first indigenous nuclear submarine 'into water' for preliminary tests has been set for Aug 15.

For another, with a high-level delegation led by defence secretary Vijay Singh currently in Moscow, Russia has now promised to deliver its Akula-II class attack submarine 'K-152 Nerpa' on a 10-year lease to India by the end of this year.

Great News Rakesh

!!!!! Many Thanks,How come this news taken so soberly on BR?

m mittal · Post by **m mittal** » 03 Jun 2009 13:35

Great News!!!!!!!!!

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 03 Jun 2009 14:10

AoA AoA AoA

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 03 Jun 2009 14:19

Indeed Great news....

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 03 Jun 2009 14:36

great news indeed.

But lets wait a little till we get official confirmation or more than one report from a credible agency, TOI-let has been known to print faulty information time and again.

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 03 Jun 2009 15:02

faulty or not , this is the first news that says the lady is gonna swim on some particular day....

We have come this far despite our baboos....lets savour that.....

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 03 Jun 2009 15:16

Indian navy pays goodwill visit to Turkey

India, Britain, France To Practice ASW

Indian Navy aeronautical institute celebrates 53 years

Indian Navy flotilla to conduct war games in the Atlantic news

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Jun 2009 15:49

Ramanna,the IN is supposedly trying to increase its strength to about 145-150 within the next decade ,but going by the delays mostly in indigenous shipbuilding yards ,this figure looks ambitious.The chief and most serious shortfall is in the sub fleet where despite 18 subs being the strength on paper,only "48%" availablity has been the figure touted by some sources.Unless a quick decision is made on the second line of subs (and here there are some very interesting littoral sub designs on offer from both France and a Russo-Ital combine,smaller than conventional diesel ocean going subs-about half the size of a Kilo),in the coming future,the shortfall will be sorely felt.In addition,the IN is yet to make up its mind on what kind of AIP system its future conventional subs should operate,fuel-cell or MESMA.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 03 Jun 2009 16:00

Rupesh wrote:Water trial of indigenous N-sub on August 15

NEW DELHI: After a series of setbacks, India's hunt for a nuclear submarine has finally gathered steam. For one, the new D-day for 'launching'

first indigenous nuclear submarine 'into water' for preliminary tests has been set for Aug 15.

For another, with a high-level delegation led by defence secretary Vijay Singh currently in Moscow, Russia has now promised to deliver its Akula-II class attack submarine 'K-152 Nerpa' on a 10-year lease to India by the end of this year.

AFAIR someone posted(before the akula accident) about akula coming to India around 26th jan,2009 n ATV 'launching' around 15th aug..
this news confirms it

AoA

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jun 2009 16:33

INS Meenakshi (the beautful first born), INS Mandakini (tempting enemies to their doom) and INS Mritunjaya (victory over death)

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 03 Jun 2009 16:45

Singha wrote:INS Meenakshi (the beautful first born), INS Mandakini (tempting enemies to their doom) and INS Mritunjaya (victory over death)

Are these ATV names chosen already?

Wow.

I would have suggested an INS Kalki for our indiangenious SSBN.

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 03 Jun 2009 17:15

ATV launch

The submarine - being built at Hazira in Gujarat under the secretive 20-year-old ATV project - will slide into the sea but remain docked for some time as its nuclear reactors are fired up and all systems are checked

Wasn't the ATV being built in Vizag?

The ATV will reportedly be equipped with 12 launch tubes of 2.4m diameter each. Initially, each missile tube will likely accommodate 3 0.74m diameter K-15 Saagrika missile. Later the tubes could accommodate the 2.0m diameter Agni IIISL (The submarine launched version of the Agni V / Agni 3+) missiles with MIRV capability.

That makes nearly 36 missiles

if they are all nuclear tipped then what kinda active nuclear warhead numbers are we looking at?

Also what is the usually projected warhead number(in % vis-a-vis another country) for a nation to count as 'Credible deterrent'

kit · Post by **kit** » 03 Jun 2009 17:37

SivaVijay wrote:ATV launch

The submarine - being built at Hazira in Gujarat under the secretive 20-year-old ATV project - will slide into the sea but remain docked for some time as its nuclear reactors are fired up and all systems are checked

Wasn't the ATV being built in Vizag?

Well unless there are two ATVs being built simultaneously ?!! ... doesn't look like typical Indian behavior does it ..

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 03 Jun 2009 18:22

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general ... _navy.html

Russian nuke attack sub to join Indian Navy by year-end news

The Russian Schucka-B class Nerpa (NATO: Akula II) nuclear attack submarine, damaged in an accident during sea trials last year, will be commissioned by the Russian Navy in the autumn and subsequently leased to the Indian Navy, Russian navy sources said Tuesday. New sea trials will be conducted on the repaired submarine on 15-20 June by the shipyard.

On 8 November last year, the Nerpa was undergoing sea trials in the Sea of Japan when its on-board fire safety system went off releasing deadly Freon gas into the sleeping quarters. Three submariners and 17 shipyard workers, from a total complement of 208 people onboard, at the time were killed.

"All the technical and organisational measures on the sub have been completed. Only pre-delivery trials by the shipyard and pre-commissioning state trials are ahead of us, which will be completed this summer (June-August). After which the submarine will be commissioned by the Russian Navy," naval sources were quoted as saying.

Last month, shipyard sources had indicated that repairs onboard the Nerpa were almost complete and that the 12,000 ton underwater behemoth would head for sea trials in June.

The yard's operations had been hamstrung by a lack of finances, but a recent visit by Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin, who released $300 million to the shipyard with orders to deliver the submarine to India by the end of this year, resolved the issue.

According to reports, the Nerpa will go on a 10-year lease to the Indian Navy, for which Russia would be paid an annual fee of $50 million. At the end of the lease period the Indian Navy could either renew the lease or buy the submarine outright or the submarine could revert back to Russia.

It is likely that Nerpa will take on the name of a predecessor, INS Chakra, when it begins to fly the flag of the Indian Navy. The INS Chakra was a Charlie-class submarine, which was also leased out to the Indian Navy a couple of decades back

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 03 Jun 2009 18:30

Look at the irony.... we have a SSN that weighs 12000 tons and a SSBN that weighs just about half....