A look back at the partition

[SSridhar]

Can you give a link where we can save this pdf file

also the second link to your post is not working

Acharya, the first link is by samuel.
The second link is frommy own post in a previous incarnation of TSP thread which is probably trashed now. In any case, I have completely quoted that.

[svinayak]

Can you give a link where we can save this pdf file

also the second link to your post is not working

Acharya, the first link is by samuel.
The second link is frommy own post in a previous incarnation of TSP thread which is probably trashed now. In any case, I have completely quoted that.

Samuel can you help me

[vera_k]

^^

It is available from the NYTimes archives.

[ramana]

he is asking a place to store the pdf.

[Sanku]

Some remarks from my side

1) I have read JS book up to ~300 pages and so far it pretty much includes the data posted on this thread and goes further ahead (I am waiting to finish the book before listing its summaries)

2) By golly one Paki gets it!! Thats and amazing acheivement for a Paki, does he read BRF to get his intellectual inputs which he then publishes in his name (old Muslim league behavior)

we should stop behaving as if we are seeking validation and vindication. Mr Jaswant Singh's book is not a Pakistani victory. It is a sincere attempt by an Indian citizen to probe what is commonly known as partition, which itself is based on the false notion that a sovereign India was wrongly divided

[samuel]

Here is the link to the article on NY times as vera_k pointed (at bottom of page). Does it give you the pdf directly?

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 946797D6CF

If not, please let me know, I'll send pdf by email. The text of article is typed up on this thread and reflected, remarkably well, in Sridhar's own note.

S

[brihaspati]

Perhaps there should be a clarification as to what really can be discussed about the Partition in this thread. My impression :

homeopathic route is acceptable but allopathic not - only symptoms can be discussed but not the pathological causes.
any line of exploration that can be suspected to lead to a cause that indicts any of the Abrahamic religions unacceptable

So both Pakistan and Partition are symptoms to be discussed but their cause list cannot include any ideological basis. Only individuals can be accused, but their motivations should not be searched for in their ideological upbringing or commitments.

So the only conclusion that remains open is that this was a finite group of individuals responsible for whatever happened, each individual being forced to act so by the actions of others - so no individual was responsible for his own actions, and ideology had no role to play in any of their actions even in forcing others actions. So Partition was a random act of random hand of history - where no one or nothing connected to humanity was at all responsible.

Therefore it can happen again, as a random act of history. And no one will be responsible. For the real cuases and motivations cannot be explored and forestalled. But then hang on, there seems to be a candidate cause then for the Partition - the attitude that ideological roots of persistent genocidic violence cannot be explored and should not be allowed to be explored. Because such a total suppression would create the false myths based on which appropriate countermeasures would not be taken. People would simply not expect such genocidic motivations because the only way to understand such motivations were in the proper analysis of ideology - which however had been disallowed. Now what could be the motivation for such disallowance?

[SBajwa]

The only purpose to take a look Back at the partition in 1947 is to

1. What is the best way to avoid another partition.
2. Best possible way to avoid blood shed.
3. Best possible way to divide the assets (if partition happens again which it will).


Some observations..

The kashmir problem started in 1660s when Aurungzeb started converting Brahmins, and not in 1948 when Pakistan invaded Kashmir.

The partition of India happened when Shaikh Ahmad Sarhindi( original Wahabi) came into the court of Shahjehan and later got into day to day administration of Aurungzeb.

[surinder]

SBajwa, Abdul Wahab was not even born when Auranga was ruler of Hind. Mabe his grandfather was not even born then.

[SBajwa]

I meant Ahmad Sarhindi

[Prem]

Wahabi, Jihadi or Paki Retards, there is no difference as far as Indics are concerned.
As Brahspati said , we are not allowed to have an honest look at the partition and this dishonesty will doom india with another partition. The first step to expolore the truth is to have refrendum now and ask Non Muslims about their opinion. Why do onlee "Islamists' (Mental, spiritual,social, cultural foreigners)get the first choice ,first demand and Dhimmi compliance? India can ill afford the fantacies of Nehru, Gandhi and others like them. Sooner we walk in reality,better for us or get ready to live with Azamgarhi/D company phenomenon all over India .

[Prem]

I meant Ahmad Sarhindi

Do you know there is shrine for him? I did not know that till i read a artcle on IM site about this , he is being portrayed as Saint, Auliya to be revered by "all' indians . Talk about having shrine of Hitler's Guru in Israel.

[RayC]

Perhaps there should be a clarification as to what really can be discussed about the Partition in this thread. My impression :

homeopathic route is acceptable but allopathic not - only symptoms can be discussed but not the pathological causes.
any line of exploration that can be suspected to lead to a cause that indicts any of the Abrahamic religions unacceptable

So both Pakistan and Partition are symptoms to be discussed but their cause list cannot include any ideological basis. Only individuals can be accused, but their motivations should not be searched for in their ideological upbringing or commitments.

So the only conclusion that remains open is that this was a finite group of individuals responsible for whatever happened, each individual being forced to act so by the actions of others - so no individual was responsible for his own actions, and ideology had no role to play in any of their actions even in forcing others actions. So Partition was a random act of random hand of history - where no one or nothing connected to humanity was at all responsible.

Therefore it can happen again, as a random act of history. And no one will be responsible. For the real cuases and motivations cannot be explored and forestalled. But then hang on, there seems to be a candidate cause then for the Partition - the attitude that ideological roots of persistent genocidic violence cannot be explored and should not be allowed to be explored. Because such a total suppression would create the false myths based on which appropriate countermeasures would not be taken. People would simply not expect such genocidic motivations because the only way to understand such motivations were in the proper analysis of ideology - which however had been disallowed. Now what could be the motivation for such disallowance?

Everything can be discussed without supercilious and sanctimonious smugness.

Got that, old boy?

Quit goading Mods. They have more on their hands than you can imagine!

We also require a break from big talk and bunkum like homoeopathic and allopathic and such obfuscations!

Come to the point.

You display a tendency to super-ventilate knowledge that has nothing to do with the context.

If everyone does that, we will lose the bandwidth!!

[brihaspati]

sure about who is ventilating knowledge? I do not see any big ref to history or some paper or books in my post. Just a straighforward logical derivation from certain premises.

[samuel]

Does anyone have membership of the Times (London Times)?
I need some material from archives to put forth big no-ledge from refs and such like.

S

[SBajwa]

By Prem
Do you know there is shrine for him? I did not know that till i read a artcle on IM site about this , he is being portrayed as Saint, Auliya to be revered by "all' indians . Talk about having shrine of Hitler's Guru in Israel.

Off course!! There is a shrine in Sarhind (close to Chandigarh)., this shrine was broken apart when Banda Bahadur attacked in early 1700s. After partition they have rebuilt this shrine and Malerkotla muslim regularly have "Urs" and muslims from Pakistan also come to India during this celebration. They call themselves as "Naqshbandi Sufis"
here is the picture in Sirhind - district Fatehgarh Sahib (fategarh was the name given by Baba Banda Singh Bahadur after he defeated the Mughals of Sarhind)


Badal, Amrinder and even Haryana's politicians visit this area without realizing or knowing that the same person was responsible for the murder of (Fifth Guru) Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji at Lahore.

This place is called "Rauza Sharif" by indians. And they think of this "Sufi" as somebody like Baba Bulleh Shah who says "Mandir Dha de, masjid Dha de, dha de jo kuch dahinda par ishq bhariya dal kadi na todi, is dil wich dilbar hai rahinda"., Waris Shah (who wrote heer) was imprisoned by Aurungzeb while Baba Bulleh shah lived during 1750s in Lahore (when Lahore was either part of Delhi or Kabul depending upon the Whip), is another person.

People in India have perception and misconception that Chisti, Nizamudeen were Sufis just like the Bhakti era saints Kabir, Namdev, Nanak...

so!! sufis are everybody who have views like Ghalib (liberal) to Aurungzeb(Bigot).

[SBajwa]

So these tombs are like sleeper cells who will wake up at a critical time (25%+ population) to have another partition.

[Abhi_G]

So these tombs are like sleeper cells who will wake up at a critical time (25%+ population) to have another partition.

SBajwa-ji, Bengal, rather entire India is dotted with shrines like these. Many of these are attributed to generals who died during the Islamic invasions. Some years back, there was a problem with the tomb of Afzal Khan (famous for being killed by Chatrapati Shivaji with tiger claw weapon) in Maharashtra. This Afzal guy is a war criminal and he has apparently become a peer. Maybe, Chiron-jee can explain better.

[Prem]

{quit ranting, please}

[sanjaychoudhry]

Grave worship is not Islamic at all. In Saudi Arabia, the ruling regime even razed the grave of Prophet's mother and built a car park over it instead. Taliban routinely kills Muslims worshipping graves. These grave worshipping faithful are not faithful at all.

[SBajwa]

by Sanjay Chaudhary
Grave worship is not Islamic at all. In Saudi Arabia, the ruling regime even razed the grave of Prophet's mother and built a car park over it instead. Taliban routinely kills Muslims worshipping graves. These grave worshipping faithful are not faithful at all.

In Dar-ul-Harb this is the modus operandi of the faifthul. Grave worshippers are punished Only in Dar-e-Islam .

Such buildings have only and only one purpose and that is

1. To have regular Qawallis (soften the non-muslim people towards islam).
2. To get faithful people around the building to organize themselves (like vote block of Malerkotla and Haryana muslims) towards protection of the arabian faith.
3. Tit for Tat Toursism Sikhs/Hindus go to Nankana/Katasraj while muslims come here for these.

[Prem]

What is required is to have huge billboard in front of this kind of kabrs explaing the pious deeds of these fellows with the the number of Indics killed by them.
Added latter
The second last para of Gandharva 's post will be very apt for such billboard, in hope to open the eyes of guilible mango men.

[gandharva]

After partition they have rebuilt this shrine and Malerkotla muslim regularly have "Urs" and muslims from Pakistan also come to India during this celebration. They call themselves as "Naqshbandi Sufis"

MOST SUFIS WERE HARD-HEARTED FANATICS


Many Hindus have been misled, mostly by their own soft-headed scholars, to cherish the fond belief that the Sufis were spiritual seekers, and that unlike the Mullahs, they loved Hindu religious lore and liked their Hindu neighbours. The Chishtiyya Sufis in particular have been chosen for such fulsome praise. The orthodox among the Muslims protest that the Sufis are being slandered. But the Hindus remain convinced that they themselves know better. Professor Aziz Ahmad is a renowned scholar of Islam in India. He clinches the matter in the following words: “In Indian sufism anti-Hindu polemics began with Muin al-din Chishti. Early Sufis in the Punjab and early Chishtis devoted themselves to the task of conversion on a large scale. Missionary activity slowed down under Nizam al-din Auliya, not because of any new concept of eclecticism, but because he held that the Hindus were generally excluded from grace and could not be easily converted to Islam unless they had the opportunity to be in the company of the Muslim saints for considerable time.”6

Of course, the Auliya who lived in a sprawling khãnqah and received rich gifts out of plunder was convinced that he himself was such a Muslim saint. His temper and teachings can be known easily from the writings of Amir Khusru, the poet, and Ziauddin Barani, the historian. Both of them were leading disciples of the Auliya. Both of them express a great hatred for Hindus, and regret that the Hanafi school of Islamic Law had come in the way of wiping out completely the “curse of infidelism” from the face Hindustan.

A similar Sufi saint who died a mere 79 years before Waliullah’s birth, was Ahmad Sirhindi (1564-1624). He was always foaming at the mouth against Akbar’s policy of peace with the Hindus. He proclaimed himself the Mujaddid-i-alf-i-sãnî, ‘renovator of the second millennium of Islam’. Besides writing several books, he addressed many letters to several powerful courtiers in the reign of Akbar and Jahangir. His Maktûbãt-i-Imãm Rabbãnî have been collected and published in three volumes. According to Professor S.A.A. Rizvi, “‘Shariat can be fostered through the sword’ was the slogan he raised for his contemporaries.”7

A few specimens should suffice to show the quality of this man’s mind. In letter No. 163 he wrote: “The honour of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who respects the kafirs dishonours the Muslims… The real purpose of levying jiziya on them is to humiliate them to such an extent that they may not be able to dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and to uphold the honour and might of Islam.” In Letter No. 81 he said: “Cow-sacrifice in India is the noblest of Islamic practices. The kafirs may probably agree to pay jiziya but they shall never concede to cow-sacrifice.” After Guru Arjun Deva had been tortured and done to death by Jahangir, he wrote in letter No. 193 that “the execution of the accursed kafir of Gobindwal is an important achievement and is the cause of the great defeat of the Hindus.”8

Sirhindi ranks with Shah Waliullah as one of the topmost sufis and theologians of Islam. Referring to his role, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad has written in his Tazkirah that “but for these letters Muslim nobles would not have stood by Islam and but for the efforts of Shaikh Ahmad, Akbar’s heterodoxy would have superseded Islam in India.”9 Later on, when K.A. Nizami published a collection of Shah Walilullah’s letters addressed to various Muslim notables including Ahmad Shah Abdali, he dedicated it to Maulana Azad. The Maulana wrote back, “I am extremely happy that you have earned the merit of publishing these letters. I pray from the core of my heart that Allah may bless you with the felicity of publishing many books of a similar kind.”10 That should give us a measure not only of ‘Muslim Revivalism’ but also of many Maulanas who masqueraded as ardent nationalists in order to fight the battle for Islam from within the Indian National Congress.

http://voiceofdharma.com/books/muslimsep/ch6.htm

[hasmukh]

{quit ranting, please.}

[brihaspati]

http://palashkatha.mywebdunia.com/2008/ ... inite.html

Heres some quote from apparent eye-witnesses pf the Noakhali riots- I have edited spelling mistakes and given some comments in brackets.

"I met Sanatan Debnath(90), Narayan Debnath(75), Sridam debnath(85), Rasmohan Debnath(80), Harendra Debnath(80),Lokmohan debnath(80),Nanibala Debnath w/o Krishnabandhu Debnath and others. Sanatan Debnath has lost his memory but walks himself, still bearing the injuries in his bleeding heart. I tried to talk to him in vain.His mother was seriously injured in Noakhali riots. All these persons belong to Sandeep island area of then Noakhali. Sandeep was later included in Chittagang after 1956. All these persons are eyewitnesses of Noakhali Riots in sandeep area. They recall Bapu`s visit in Noahkali but could not meet him as he did not visit Sndeep. ``In Sandeep riots my grandmother got a cut on her throat. She was absconding for several days but was found by fishermenand survived,’’ said the son of Sanatan Debnath, a teacher in the local highschool Dinesh Chandra Debnath. `` My parents fled from sandeep and took shelter in a safer place nearby Rahmatpur Village, in my maternal home which was under a different union area and protected by secular muslims. My mother was very beautiful.The riots broke in sandeep fair on Shiv Chaturdashi where a large number of females and children gathered. The rumours of riots in Kolkata and massacre of Muslims spred by seamen coming to the area agitated Muslims. They attacked the Hindus and chopped off many of the in the fair.”

Narhari debnath remembers everything with full details.`The riots was aftermath of direct action and following riots in kolkata, he said. Sailors returning from Kokata spred the rumour of Muslim Massacre and Noakhali was burnt’, He said. `It was a saturday. The miscreants attacked the Tiner badee of Dr Harinath and chopped him on the spot.In Kachhiapar he became the first victim. He was a resourceful and reputed man and his house was famous as godam Badee. It triggered the panic button as wanted. Then the secular Muslims reached the Sener Hat, the local Hat in sandeep and warned Hindus to flee to safer places. it worked.The Hat was immidiately deserted.Meanwhile the sky was lit up by large scale arson. The elder brother of Harinath Doctor escaped and he told the fleeing Hindus that petrol was used in the arson.Entire Sandeep area was burnt. Sandeep was victimised just for nothing.”`Lalmohan sen, a freedomfighter who particiapted in Chittagang revolt under the leadership of Master Surya sen, another reputed personality of sandeep was killed immidiately. His brother Bhushan was also assasinated. Bhushan was a piolot and he had to fly Kolkata next day. locals deserted sandeep and escaped to nearby Jungle. They reached Another union area Rahamatpur., ‘ he added.Now Sreedam Debnath told that the chairman of Rahmatpur Union area, Batam sardar was very powerful and secular, too. He challanged the rioters not to touch Hindus in his union area. He deployed his supporter Muslim youths to protect the Hindus.


Both the oldman said that Fazlul Haq visited sandeep before the riots.


Describing the atmosphere of Noakhali then, The old men said,` rioters were crying Zihad with the slogan- Alla Ho Akbar. The Batam Sardar supporters and Hindus answed with vande Mataram.Tension prevailed , but altogether Hindus were safe in Batam`s den. Hindus were not so fortunate in other areas. And Bapu had to go for rescue.Gandhi stayed for about four months in the riot stricken areas. He started moving around the villages and motivated the people towards his peaceful coexistence and non-violence philosophy. When Gandhiji came to Jayag on 29th January 1947 all sections of the local community extended him whole-hearted support.


At that time, Barrister Hemanta Kumar Ghosh of the village donated all his resources to Mahatma for the development and peace of the area and "Ambika Kaliganga Charitable Trust" was formed. The office of the Gandhi Peace Mission, formerly known as Gandhi Camp, was shifted to the present campus of Jayag. The Gandhi Camp started working for both peace and charitable functions and it continued till partition of India.


In Azimpur criminallawyer P(a)resh Moktar (Hindus could be known as "Moktars" because of their profession) was killed.


Shocked by Lalmohan and harinath`s death the people began singing a song remembering them since the very next days: RABIBARE DASHTAAR PARE AAMAARE GELI BACHHA CHHARIYAA
KAAL SHAMANE NILO RE KAARIAA
RAASTAYA CHHILO JATO BAAREE DEKHE KAANDE TATO NAAREE
KAATE KHANDO KHAND KARI MUKHE BALE HARI HARI
They were weeping while singing the old song with frail rythm and sound.I felt my heart wet wet, though it was not raining anywhere."

[RayC]

Let us keep on track.

This thread is about the Partition and not on Islam.

One can discuss issues but there has to be some link to the Partition.

[brihaspati]

The Noakhali riots were the most important link between the Calcutta riots and the retribution that started in Bihar. The initiative was actually taken by the ML and appears to have been an important part of their strategy to extend the scope of "Direct Action" aimed at obtaining "Partition". Once retribution started in Bihar, it was likely to spread in the key province of Punjab. This could then be represented as the unavoidability of ML demands as phrased by Jinnah.

There is an important angle to the leadup to the Partition in Bengal. The curious role of the Namashudras and the Rajbansghi's who had earlier drifted closer to Ambedkar's line in demanding and obtaining separate electorate from the "Hindu" under the communal award, actually reversed their "anti-high-caste" stance in the decade before the Partition. They sided with Shyamaprasad Mukherjee's position on the Partition but their hopes of their territories coming under India was dashed by the final awards.

[RayC]

The Ides Of August

An article on the Partition and its effects published in the Outlook

The Ides of August

[rkirankr]

Let us keep on track.

This thread is about the Partition and not on Islam.

One can discuss issues but there has to be some link to the Partition.

Er .. I think Jinnah and his camp followers believed and said muslims cannot live with Hindus in India. They need their own home land. AFAIK muslims follow Islam. Right?

{Right and right. And far less than half of the Muslims in India went to Pakistan - which means that the vast majority said to Jinnah and the rest of his hate-mongering genocidal goat-buggering Paki sh1ts. Many, probably most, of the people in the lands "awarded" to Pakistan did not have the option of escaping to India, certainly I cannot imagine many Muslims feeling confident enough in 1947 to come over to India through Punjab or Bihar. So it is fair to conclude that the majority of Indian Muslims cast their lot with the rest of us SDREs, and some of the best of Indian citizens today are devout Muslims.

Which is why I will do my best to ban postors who can't distinguish between Pakis and Indians. Last warning on that aspect, please. Thanks! - Mod-e-Mod }

[RayC]

I think Jinnah and his camp followers believed and said muslims cannot live with Hindus in IndiaAFAIK muslims follow Islam. Right?

Don't you think we are better off!

I would be surprised if Muslims follow Hinduism!

[surinder]

I am glad to see some accounts from Bengal. I have often tried to probe Bengalis about partition & I have failed to find too much sentiments regarding it. I could not sense any sense of loss or nostalgia for lands that went to BD, or longing for the villages or big cities like Dacca. Perhaps my sample size is small, perhaps my probing was not appropriate, but I was looking for a mirror of what Punjabis feel for Partition. Movies etc. on Partition seem to talk only of the Punjab. Similarly, Sindhis lost the entire state, could not get even a sliver of it. Maybe Sindhis & Bengalis have internalized the trauma and react by not remembering it, or claiming not to be affected by it. If someone has any insight into the effect on Bengalis & Sindhis, I would love to hear it (especially why the reaction is not similar to that on Punjabis).

[surinder]

One of the most interesting of human angle stories are the incidents where people changed religion. On the 50th anniversary of Partition, Outlook magazine was doing some research & came across families in Pakistan in which women were forcibly married/converted longed for their lost family. One such case was a Sikh women converted to Islam in PoK. Her brothers were settled near Amritsar and remained Sikhs. Another was a women whose sons and husband had come to India, but she had to convert and then re-marry. She had children from her Muslim husband. The anguish of families divided by borders & also by religion was too much to read. I don't have a link handy.

The good Professor from Sweden also talked of a Muslim girl adopted by Sikh parents in Indian Punjab becoming a Sikh. But usually such incidents are fewer (i.e. more converted to RoP, than the other way around). One of my fathers friend was person who had a Sikh name (l forget the name, but something like Karam Singh, or Harnam Singh), but was a muslim; apparently he had to change his name etc. to protect himself. I am told that in the Nankana Sahib area, there are many "Muslim" families that secretly have Guru Granth Sahib at home, their kids wear Karas. They were Sikhs who did not want to leave their lands, so ostensibly converted to save their skin. One travellor met such people. One Sikh Raagi from the Golden Temple told me that he met his uncle who had become a Muslim in one of his trips to Nankana Sahib. Urvashi Butalia in her book talks about her Mama (maternal uncle) becoming a Muslims to get family house in Lahore. Actually, forcing his mother to stay with him in Pakistan and also becoming a token Muslim. Also, the first Chief Minister of Paki Punjab was a Sikh convert to Islam.

[SBajwa]

Surinder,

You can add many famous people to such list. For example the Cricketer Kapil Dev Nikhanj mother's elder brother converted to Islam in 1947 (Kapil Dev's Mama)., though Kapil dev was born in 1950s.

Elder brother of my Nana instead of leaving his property in pakistan decided to convert and live there (while his family and kids had already moved to India)., his mother went back from Amritsar to Shaikhupura and brought him to India.

Also.. check this Islam Bibi Case..
http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2008/1 ... -bibi.html

There are hundreds of thousands such cases., These cases are not different from today's bollywood culture cases.

Then the Khatris and Jats who convert to Islam are called Shaikhs.

and nobody talks about the forced conversions of non-muslims in 1947.

Almost in all districts., all aged men were shaved, circumcised and forced to eat beef in the local mosque.

I think the same modus operandi was used in Sindh, Bengal and other places.

Partition happened because

1. Muslims believe their own local mullahs more than the media (newspapers or radios). and resorted to violence, it is still the same. It started from 1920s - 1947. All type of violence was used., (economic, sexual, physical, etc).

2. The non-muslim violence was 100% to defend their property, people and lives.

So... we need to open up our eyes and motivate muslims to

1. Have more faith in free media more than the local mullahs.
2. Get modern education by banning Madrassas.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Shaikh

The city of Shaikhupura was called Virkgarh i.e. Citadel of the Virk (Virk jutts and Verka Rajputs). Later Aurungzeb razed the fort to ground and changed the name to shaikhupura.

[surinder]

One correction, the "Shaikh" title is given only to the Khatri (Kshatriya) converts, and maybe to the Brahmins, but not to the Jatts. (The wikipedia page is incorrect). This is one way of giving fancy titles to attract higher castes into Islaam (Kshatriya & Brahmins).

In Urvashi Butalia's book on Partition, she details the case of an old Sikh person in Thoa Khalsa village (near Rawalpindi) is requesting the Sardar to kill him by his kirpan becaause ke knows he cannot fight nor run; says to the Sardar, "Kill me ... I don't want to become a Shaikh."

[RayC]

Let us keep on track.

This thread is about the Partition and not on Islam.

One can discuss issues but there has to be some link to the Partition.

Er .. I think Jinnah and his camp followers believed and said muslims cannot live with Hindus in India. They need their own home land. AFAIK muslims follow Islam. Right?

{Right and right. And far less than half of the Muslims in India went to Pakistan - which means that the vast majority said to Jinnah and the rest of his hate-mongering genocidal Edited. Many, probably most, of the people in the lands "awarded" to Pakistan did not have the option of escaping to India, certainly I cannot imagine many Muslims feeling confident enough in 1947 to come over to India through Punjab or Bihar. So it is fair to conclude that the majority of Indian Muslims cast their lot with the rest of us SDREs, and some of the best of Indian citizens today are devout Muslims.

Which is why I will do my best to ban postors who can't distinguish between Pakis and Indians. Last warning on that aspect, please. Thanks! - Mod-e-Mod }

Interesting from Mod e Mod. Now, who could that be?

Now, that comment that Muslims follow Islam is interesting.

Didn't you know that?

No wonder there is so much confusion on this thread.

[RayC]

I am glad to see some accounts from Bengal. I have often tried to probe Bengalis about partition & I have failed to find too much sentiments regarding it. I could not sense any sense of loss or nostalgia for lands that went to BD, or longing for the villages or big cities like Dacca. Perhaps my sample size is small, perhaps my probing was not appropriate, but I was looking for a mirror of what Punjabis feel for Partition. Movies etc. on Partition seem to talk only of the Punjab. Similarly, Sindhis lost the entire state, could not get even a sliver of it. Maybe Sindhis & Bengalis have internalized the trauma and react by not remembering it, or claiming not to be affected by it. If someone has any insight into the effect on Bengalis & Sindhis, I would love to hear it (especially why the reaction is not similar to that on Punjabis).

Bengalis, those who are of that generation and not many are left in this world, do remember their existence in their native places which they have lost.

But they were pragmatic. What is lost is lost. Got their acts together to make a new life in their new land!

See, the powerful film 'Subharnarekha' by Ritwick Ghatak with English sub titles and you will realise the heart wrenching tale.

I saw it when I was in the NDA and it still remains in my memory!

Horrifying and ever so real!

Of the Punjabi refugee issue, I think Kushwant Singh's "Train to Pakistan'' was another powerful novel and so was Mahohar Mulgaonkar's 'Bend in the Ganges'.

[RamaY]

Friends,

I have a humble request!

Let us do an experiment. Let us try to discuss Partition without bringing religion or ideology. Probably there is a way to do it. We all may be pleasantly surprised to find a way to discuss such controversial topics without bringing religion into discussion. It is worth holding our thoughts to ourselves for a month or two If we can find a solution to this conundrum.

Thanks

[Abhi_G]

I am glad to see some accounts from Bengal. I have often tried to probe Bengalis about partition & I have failed to find too much sentiments regarding it. I could not sense any sense of loss or nostalgia for lands that went to BD, or longing for the villages or big cities like Dacca. Perhaps my sample size is small, perhaps my probing was not appropriate, but I was looking for a mirror of what Punjabis feel for Partition. Movies etc. on Partition seem to talk only of the Punjab. Similarly, Sindhis lost the entire state, could not get even a sliver of it. Maybe Sindhis & Bengalis have internalized the trauma and react by not remembering it, or claiming not to be affected by it. If someone has any insight into the effect on Bengalis & Sindhis, I would love to hear it (especially why the reaction is not similar to that on Punjabis).

Surinder,

That is an interesting question. I will try to answer it from my perspective. If you travel in the states of Tripura, Meghalaya and Assam (especially Silchar), you will find an overwhelming number of Bengalis there. Similarly, if you visit the Andaman Islands, most of the settlers, as far as I know are from East Bengal. The reason that the angst of partition does not get portrayed that much is due to a variety of reasons. Northeast, as a whole has been neglected by the center. So you will rarely get to hear stories of the people who migrated there. How many stories from Tripura get broadcasted here? So the memories are lost with the death of the people, who actually faced those riots. Those stories are erased from our memory.

Second, famine and partition led to the increasing popularity of marxists - many of whom were actually from east bengal. They played a strange role of internalizing the loss and putting the blame solely at the doorstep of the brits, which is only partially correct. But at the same time, the depradations of muslim league are never aired. Most of the times, they would do an equal-equal and actually blame Hindus for the riots. This is a strange mentality that I have personally encountered among various aged marxist acquaintances. That is part of their political rhetoric against "global imperialism", I would say.

A huge majority came to West Bengal and proximity to Kolkata has its own social and cultural effects along with economic opportunities. And since West Bengal has traditionally represented the "cultural" Bengal for a long time, the psychological effect will be predominantly of the people on this side of the border. This does not mean to say that people on this side were not sympathetic to the refugees, but overall the established culture of West Bengal gets predominance. East Bengalis speak in different dialects, as much as there are various ways of speaking Bangla in West Bengal. There is a subtle cultural divide here, but overall the Kolkata/West Bengal culture naturally gets predominance with each going generation.

Although films have been made by Ritwik Ghatak in the 60s on partition, the themes have been mostly on the angst and heart wrenching sorrow at very personal levels - they were more like psychological explorations, rather than commentaries on actual political dynamics and riots etc. The only Hindi film that has portrayed the 1946 Direct Action Day is "Hey Ram" by Kamalahassan ! As far as I know, there has been no Bengali film on the political issues surrounding partition, until to this day. It has to do with the marxist politics of the day, that has been strangely silent on the huge loss.

Also, RayC Mahashay has also correctly observed, some amount of pragmatism has also played its part. We have moved ahead fro sure.....but at the same time we should never forget.....so as to prevent it from happening once again....be it north south east or west....

Added later - The compensation for Bengali Hindus from East Bengal has not been comparable to Punjab. And there are very complex scenarios associated with resettlement in areas like Dandakaranya, Udham Singh Nagar etc.

[RayC]

Let me give an example how the old people were nostalgic.

I went to the border at Petrapol and my mother was with me. I crossed over after being allowed by the Bangladeshi official (I told him my official designation) and picked up a sapling and gave it to my mother since she wanted it.

It was ridiculous but one had to see her eyes and the tears!

Very odd, I thought!

Even the Bangladeshi chap was touched!

Maybe it was the same delight that I got when I used to come on leave and saw the first glimpse of Howrah Bridge from the train! Juvenile, but very powerful!

[SBajwa]

In my opinion the single most lesson that we can learn from partition is
"Best Defense is a pre-emptive offense." Always was and always has been.

The cultures who responds aggressively to an attack (massive retaliation strike) will survive others will perish.