krishnapremi wrote:Chiron,
While it would be admirable to count Yeshu as the 25th avatar of Vishnu,the christists distance themselves from Hindus as much as possible.Ditto with mohammedans.Our leftist-secular-congress cabal supports them.Their separate identity wins them preferential claims.They get monetary support from Saudi Barbaria and Amirkhan to remain separate.
You are underestimating the pressures on Hindu society during alien rule.The converts were those who were susceptible to allure and inducement.The Pakis and beedis are converts.What about those who under severest repression held fort?
It is not necessary to have 100% consensus always.Karl Popper,a student of modern society remarked an open society is not based on 100% consensus.
We Hindus are handicapped because of reservation politics and abuse of Hinduism.If we can tell the truth about Islam and Christism and how they are used to promote seccessionism and how US and Pak and Barbaria are inspired by christism and Islam to malign,harm India,half our job will be done.
First of all the pseudo-elite will have to go first.
Krishnapremi ji,
I guess Pranav ji has given a nice support towards understanding the global picture of the forces with whom Indic-ness is in association (either constructive OR destructive OR neutral). The external support in terms of money for abrahmic memes is very high. Furthermore, they are clear about their fundamentals and ideals. They have clearly defined simple goals backed up by lots of money to explain it to people in need. The Indic world-view is complex. There is no money in favour of Indic-memes for propagation. And most importantly, the society has forgotten the basics of Indic-ness.
Jesus, vishnu, avatar were just examples to make a point that in a civilization which says "everything in this universe which exists, is brahman" and "truth is one, different people call it by different names", there should not come such times as we are seeing today. The reason of our poverty (ideological) is that we have forgotten how to implement the most core ideals of our civilization, that is these two sentences. They remain theoretical, hence the present deplorable condition.
The understanding amongst Indics about their inherent unity has been on rise, since beginning of 20th century. However, IMO, Indics have forgotten the understanding of this concept of Dharma.
RayC ji,
Perhaps, this is what Indic-ness is about, understanding that Dharma is something way different from religion. Ever since the construct of Hinduism is propagated amongst Indics, there has been a degree of confusion while looking towards self and our history. The debates between Vedantis and Buddhists are considered as debates between two religions, wherein one religion vanquished another. This is not how they looked at things during times of Adi Shankara (for example).
It is not about Hinduism, it is about something more fundamental. Hinduism as we know today is not more than 150 years old. The british simply clubbed few of ideologies together and referred as hinduism. As you said, caste is an Indic phenomenon, just like Dharma and border-less rashtra. A nation-state with inviolable borders is a european construct. Allegiance towards such geographical entity was called Nationalism. Subsequently, Shivaji, Vivekananda, Savarkar, Bipinchandra Pal, Lokmanya Tilak et al were called as "Hindu-Nationalists".
Both the terms in this phrase "Hindu-Nationalism" are alien to pre-islamic world-view of Indians.
There are forces which wish to return to this pre-islamic world-view where
1. everybody in this region known as "Bhaarat" are referred to as Hindus by outsiders and Bhaaratiya by insiders.
2. everybody has a dharma to follow. This dharma is basis of individual-society-rashtra's decisions regarding Artha and Kaama (Pursuit of material wealth, fame, power and fulfilment of desires).
3. This dharma is given utmost importance by everybody irrespective of their personal pursuits of Moksha (spiritual paths of achieving salvation).
The segregation of spiritual pursuits from Duty and sense of Justice (dharma) is what is advocated by everyone who is tagged as "Hindu-Nationalist" from everybody in this nation.
To oppose this, there are alien ideologies, which believe in concepts like "religion", "Infidel" and in principle deny the segregation of polity and spirituality (Deen and Daulat).
What exacerbates the matter furthermore, is that the proponents of religion of one god in category two, are global players, where as proponents of category one are local players. By this I mean, just like communism, there are no borders in Islam. Whereas, the idea of "utopia" for a "hindu-nationalist" does not run beyond the realms of Indian subcontinent. A person tagged as "Hindu-Nationalist" asks for few basic things, which people from category two cannot give (theoretically).
The irony is that, most of the Indics or "Hindus", themselves have forgotten about the idea of Dharma. They too have started equating Dharma as synonym to religion and rashtra as synonym to nation-state. hence all the confusion.
Please look at it from this point of view. The problem is not Abrahmic spiritual pursuits. The problem is refusal of Abrahmics to give higher precedence to Dharma and keep spiritual pursuits purely personal and non-proselytizing.
The things like "Caste" is accumulated excreta, which was once a useful organ, now a decaying waste. And Indic component of subcontinental popualation is slowly getting rid of it. There are many such problems which form a part of this accumulated waste which is worth getting rid of. But an entity which is now a waste and once a useful, is a part of a picture, not whole picture in itself. Things which should go, should go. and they will. However there is a process of cleaning which ensures that only waste is gone, not the essentials. That essential here is "Dharma's understanding amongst mango-abduls of India". This is "Indic-ness". This is what a "Hindu-nationalist" wants from all mango-abduls of subcontinent.