INS Vikrant: News and Discussion

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hanumadu
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by hanumadu »

Ankit Desai wrote:India's First Indigenous Aircraft Carrier INS Vikrant Launches for Sea Trials
First Indian-made aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, made by Cochin Shipyard ltd, has undocked for sea trials. She'll undergo extensive harbour acceptance trials before getting commissioned.
Did main stream media miss it ?

-Ankit
narmad wrote:
Ankit Desai wrote:India's First Indigenous Aircraft Carrier INS Vikrant Launches for Sea Trials



Did main stream media miss it ?

-Ankit
Sea Trials !!! Is Vikrant fitted already ?
The report makes it seem that the carrier is ready for induction.
Last i had heard it will take another two years .
hanumadu wrote:No official pictures, but from defence forum india

Image
Bade wrote:
KOCHI: The indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) being built at the Cochin Shipyard for the Indian Navy will be undocked on Saturday, marking completion of the critical stage of phase-II of the constriction.

“Though it is a major step towards the the completion of a crucial phase of the prestigious project, no formal function has been organised in connection with the undocking of the vessel,” said Shipyard authorities.

“Undocking means that the work that needs to be carried out in the dry dock has been completed. All the underwater works have been completed, and the ship is ready to float out of the dry dock. The remaining work can be completed while the ship is floating,” they said.

When the first phase was completed in August 2013, the 37,500-tonne warship was launched by then Defence Minister A K Antony’s wife Elizabeth, and was named INS Vikrant. The warship is supposed to begin sea trials in 2017, and will be inducted into the Navy by 2018 end.

INS Vikrant is capable of carrying 36 fixed-wing aircraft, including Russian-made MiG-29K and the yet-to-be-inducted indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... 839783.ece
hanumadu
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by hanumadu »

Does this mean the island and the side landing runway are built?
Suraj
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Suraj »

It looks like the portside runway extension is built, and probably the counterbalancing starboard side island is too. I'm surprised there are no photos, if this has floated out. It's fairly easy to see it from Venduruthy bridge, if it indeed has been floated out again.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

the island has been built up fully...infact two islands with a elevator section in between. pix were posted in brf a while back.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCxTiMDUEAAL7in.jpg:large
https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 4110_o.jpg

the powerplant, drivetrain and hvac systems must also be sealed into place. so the engineering spaces must be done and ready.

its all about fitting out the aviation hangar, island comms / radar systems, and living spaces/kitchens/room sized food fridges...1000s of small and big items...and then sea trials including high speed turns, skid stops, full fwd to full reverse, exploding depth charges in close proximity, fire drills, ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KnCqcTEOU
Hitesh
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Hitesh »

Why did the IN allow pictures of the propellers??? That is a huge state secret!! The USN, the Royal Navy, the French Navy, and even the Russian Navy do not allow pictures of their ships' propellers. They always cover them up. Now they just made it easier for other navies to map out the INS Vikrant's acoustic properties and fingerprints.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

That's not true...only for sub's

Here is ddg51 at ingalls http://ingalls.huntingtoningalls.com/pr ... dgcon2.jpg
sohamn
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by sohamn »

^^^^Only for submarines and only if you have designed those props . For e.g. america and other westerns countries would already have the knowhow and sonar&wake signature of scorpene props and hence by hiding it you won't gain anything, but you would like to hide the prop's of arihant.
vina
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by vina »

hanumadu wrote: Image
Hmm. Twin 5 bladed screws (pretty high expanded area ratio , you would normally have 4 screws for 15 to 20 knots cruising speeds in civil/commercial vessels, ), each screw is probably taking some 75,000 shp I think , can see the passive roll stabilizer in the side , normal A brackets holding the shafts, pretty conventional hull form design.

Ideally would have liked to see an all electric power station concept with Azipods (three in number), like this, with a bow thruster in the stem of the vessel. Notice even for high speed, cruise ships (with around similar displacement as Vikrant and also probably similar or even superior maneuvering requirements as Vikrant, the number blades per screw is typically 4. What the screws on the Vikrant look more like submarine screws to me. Maybe this 5 blades is because of the use of only 2 shafts and the need to absorb all that power in just two shafts.

Image

On another note by looking at the pic , there props on the Vikrant seem smaller than what the clearance that seems available , they could have gone for a bigger , slower spinning prop (will be more efficient) with 4 blades, rather than the smaller 5 blade prop. This prop seems more like a submarine prop to me. I wouldn't be surprised if this just a drag and drop of the Arihant's power shaft and power train to the Vikrant.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

its probably ported from the cavour class which is the template.
cavour has identical power plant of 4 x LM2500.

nimitz class also uses 5 bladed screw http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... peller.jpg
even the uber chic QE2 has 5 blades...so its the norm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/uk/11 ... gn_976.jpg

submarines have 7 bladed screws.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

I do not think podded propulsors are suitable for warships. they cannot be looked at and repairs done at sea and I dont think the electric motors are powerful enough for 30 knot+ sustained surges the carrier task forces need to evade submarine activity or disappear into the ocean after a strike.

the fat carnival class cruise ships would barely make 20 knots in a flat sea. carriers will tear it apart like a wolf going after a dog.

the daring class uses electric propulsion yes, but delivered via conventional prop shafts
https://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.c ... rd_aft.jpg
Gagan
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Gagan »

I think the french tried to sell off the two mistrals to India.
The IN wanted the pods to be replaced by a shaft and screw conventional style.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

the mistral class has the boxy shape of a passenger ship (in a sense it is) and a max speed of 19 knots per wiki - most container ships are faster than this.
http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/i ... ais_lg.gif

far cry from a carrier than can sustain 30 knots once it clears port to leave any hunting submarines in the dust. even some of our older FFGs and corvettes cannot keep up with the vikramaditya steaming at 30 knots...esp in heavy seas they would get battered....the talwars can keep up but the bow wave seems so huge the deck under the helicopter area seems to be nearly awash...

couple of brawny DDGs with 64 barak8's and huge fuel bunkers are the only answer.
Anurag
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Anurag »

Seriously where are the pics?
Gagan
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Gagan »

^^^ link is 403-ing
Eric Leiderman
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Eric Leiderman »

Podded propulsion can give the same speed as shafted propulsion. you can have n-number pods.
The speed of the vessel is mainly dependant on hull form and skew of propellor.
The size and skew of propellor is matched to engine BHP , Too much of either and u overload/stall the power plant
There is not much repairs that can be done to either system at sea, divers can do minor work.
arshyam
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

INS Vikrant undocking postponed - S. Anandan, The Hindu
Unfavourable tide, siltation at the dock mouth causes postponement

Siltation and a minor technical glitch in lowering the building bay dock gate, which was last operated when the maiden indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant was taken in post-launch for the second phase of work a year-and-a-half ago, have forced the Cochin Shipyard to defer the undocking of the carrier to Monday.

The aircraft carrier was to have been undocked on completion of structural work on Saturday.

Flooding of the dock and ballasting of the carrier, weighing about 26,000 tonnes minus the ballast, had begun on Friday.

However, unfavourable tide and a bit of siltation at the dock mouth besides a minor glitch with the dock gate forced the undocking to be put off. Sources said the carrier would continue to be outfitted for over a year-and-a-half after undocking when the second phase of construction would draw to a close. The yard considers this to be the most challenging phase during which cabling, piping, accommodation facility, air conditioning and ventilation systems would be done.

Once complete, the carrier will have some 2,300 compartments.
John
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by John »

Singha wrote:far cry from a carrier than can sustain 30 knots once it clears port to leave any hunting submarines in the dust. even some of our older FFGs and corvettes cannot keep up with the vikramaditya steaming at 30 knots...esp in heavy seas they would get battered....the talwars can keep up but the bow wave seems so huge the deck under the helicopter area seems to be nearly awash...
Singha unless it is nuclear powered no carrier can sustain 30 knots unless you plan to reduce its range by a tenth, the ideal speed they can sustain will be around 20 knots. For an LHD max speed of 19 knots is more than sufficient, Jalashwa top speed is only 21 knots. That said Mistral was designed for Russian configuration operations, cold weather configuration i am not sure about the wisdom of operating that in tropical waters.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

if you apply same formula wouldnt the optimal speed of the LHD be around 12 knots only?

if you think about the world situation last 20 years the need for having strong force of naval marines has come down. the US spends a gigantic amt on the usmc with its own navy, airforce and army attached. where will it invade. it already has bases in the middle east. but politics ensures the usmc continues to get funds.

our LHDs will be white elephants if mistral sized and priced. mostly just small sized ones for supporting the andamans and humanitarian relief will be sufficient.

all money must go to carriers and submarines.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

build 4 of these less complex 15000t rotterdam class types and finish it off. retire the jalashwa.
even these wont be cheap, with 6 helicopters and LSTs needed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 281%29.jpg

IN cannot compete for 'show' with the US with a 100x smaller budget.

get a expensive fleet of mistral sized LHDs and the trap will be sprung neatly. high opex on a essentially a non-combatant ship, and the "international community" will expect us to help every calamity between australia to brazil including the rohingiyas
Aditya G
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

My layperson guess for vkd's performance is on account of the hull design... That of a ocean going cruiser.
Philip
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

So the Vikrant will arrive only in 2017 at the earliest. There's a huge amt. of work to be done,remember how much time was taken for renovating the Gorshkov/Vik-A replacing cabling et al.

CSL should star work on the amphibs or another Vikrant class CV after the re-launch.
Anurag
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Anurag »

Wasn't the undocking postponed to monday? Where are the pics!!! :twisted: :twisted:
Sid
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Sid »

Anurag wrote:Wasn't the undocking postponed to monday? Where are the pics!!! :twisted: :twisted:
First it was postponed till Saturday, then Monday and now its gone. Something really wrong here, a minor hiccup would have been fixed it by now.

no pressure.
Surya
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Surya »

There's a huge amt. of work to be done,remember how much time was taken for renovating the Gorshkov/Vik-A replacing cabling et al.
Nice try at doing an equal equal :eek:
arshyam
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

Nothing alarming, looks like the dock gate has a glitch. According to the The Hindu article by the same person quoted below, the gate was last opened 1.5 years ago when the Vikrant was first launched.
S Anandan ‏@S_Anandan76 10h10 hours ago

Glitch with dock gate remains. #INSVikrant undocking put off again.

1:13 AM - 1 Jun 2015 · Details
S Anandan ‏@S_Anandan76 7h7 hours ago Fort Tondiarpet, Tamil Nadu

JUST IN: Undocking of indigenous carrier #INSVIkrant unlikely in the next two days. Dredging, effort to set right dock gate glitch under way
Aditya G
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

First peek of the island

https://pbs-0.twimg.com/media/CGe5rH3UAAA826R.jpg:large

Not much at the moment.
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

the water is surprisingly very clear for a dock.
Anurag
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Anurag »

Aditya G wrote:First peek of the island

https://pbs-0.twimg.com/media/CGe5rH3UAAA826R.jpg:large

Not much at the moment.
That island looks quite complete. You're not seeing the full height from the base of the island because of the ski-jump obstruction.
arshyam
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

Based on this rendering, the island looks like it's structurally done.

Image
Source: https://twitter.com/rajeev_mp/status/603806003965140992

Image
Source: https://twitter.com/ETDefence/status/605656827850719232
Aditya G
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

You can see a hollow for the mf-star aesa panel.

The "windows" are probably access doors ... The deck will probably be constructed around the same.

The island is basically just a steel building at present
Singha
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

ship looks like a pretty tfta and solid piece of work all round, even in the rendering.

the mfstar tower, the smart-L type huge 3d radar and the SAMs flush with the deck give it a very "western" CDGish feel
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Bade »

Holding capacity is only 20 aircraft + 10 helos ?

Vishal only increases this by a factor 2 atmost.

We need two of these to work in tandem. :) Two Vikrant class for the west coast and one for the east coast would be good for the next 20 years at least.

Supercarrier Vishal++ only if we plan to see action in Indo-China seas.
abhik
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by abhik »

Singha wrote:the water is surprisingly very clear for a dock.
Yup. Looks like one of those "lakes" in Bangalore, Kerala.
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Bade »

That is a lot of water hyacinth ingested. Do the ingest pipes from the lake have no filters on them. It is the Vembanad lake though connected to the sea and one can see strong flows with the tides.
member_22733
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by member_22733 »

Looks like the canals in one of my fav. mallu tourist spots.... Alleppey.
Bade
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Bade »

Or maybe the picture is proof that the gates are partly or fully open letting in the surface flotsam.
SNaik
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by SNaik »

Still stuck in the dock?
Cain Marko
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Cain Marko »

Austin wrote:India is in talks with Russia on the modernization of helicopters Ka-28 aircraft carrier "Vikrant" - Indian Ambassador to Russia
Tomsk. May 18th. Interfax-AVN - India plans to use helicopters Ka-226 and modernized Ka-28 on an aircraft carrier Project 71 "Vikrant" along with MiG-29K / KUB, said the agency "Interfax" on Monday, Indian ambassador P Srinivasan Raghavan during his visit to Tomsk.

"On" Vikrant "plan to use the Ka-226 and Ka-28, which we already have, but we want to modernize the Ka-28. Negotiations on modernization (with the Russian side -" IF ") are already, they soon completed, "- said P.S.Raghavan.

He did not specify the number of helicopters that will be upgraded.

It was reported that Russia until the end of 2016 to complete the delivery of India 45 carrier-based aircraft MiG-29K / KUB, which will be based on aircraft carriers Project 11430 "Vikramaditya" Russian construction and design 71 "Vikrant" Indian-built.
Any news on the ifr capability in the upgrade? What does ithat entail
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Re: INS Vikrant News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

The KA-31s are also being repaired.Some have been returned after repairs,etc.These dozen+ AEW helos are vital for the IN's carriers and warships for air defence and are considered quite effective.More may be acquired as the number of large warships and the Vikrant arrive. Upgrading these types will allow the IN funds with which to purchase as many as poss. of the 100+ ASW/multi-role medium helos required.
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