Bharat Rakshak

Anujan wrote:Jinnah, before he was born was a staunch nationalist, secularist and universal humanist who strived for Indian ans communal unity. After he was born everything changed. Something must have happened to change the views of such a great man.

Altair wrote:

Anujan wrote:Jinnah, before he was born was a staunch nationalist, secularist and universal humanist who strived for Indian ans communal unity. After he was born everything changed. Something must have happened to change the views of such a great man.

I can name a few like them in History. Adolf Hitler,Joseph Stalin come on top of the list.
Some of the worst things in human history have been done with best intentions in mind

My point here is not to focus on the Shias. After all, the massacre of the Shias in Balochistan is happening along with the widespread persecution and killing of Ahmadis and Christians, the occasional killing of Punjabi settlers in Sindh, the routine beheading of captured army soldiers and the large-scale terrorisation of urban areas through the deployment of suicide bombers. Instead, my point is simpler, that we are losing the capacity for outrage

Anindya wrote:As a descendant of people, who lost family members during the Direct action day, this fascination with Jinnah's "change of heart" is rather uninteresting, why not give at least some of the focus to people like Gopal Patha, in stead?

Johann wrote:

Anindya wrote:As a descendant of people, who lost family members during the Direct action day, this fascination with Jinnah's "change of heart" is rather uninteresting, why not give at least some of the focus to people like Gopal Patha, in stead?

I'm sorry for your family's losses.

This is the Pakistan thread, and ideological transformation isn't just a historical curiosity. It's something that is possible within Pakistan's ruling class as well.

It may sound utterly ridiculous, but for example I don't find it impossible that someone like Imran Khan, who has spoken passionately as a Pakistani nationalist ever since he entered politics could in a few years speak as a Pashtun nationalist instead.

Johann wrote:

Anindya wrote: ...

This is the Pakistan thread, and ideological transformation isn't just a historical curiosity. It's something that is possible within Pakistan's ruling class as well.

It may sound utterly ridiculous, but for example I don't find it impossible that someone like Imran Khan, who has spoken passionately as a Pakistani nationalist ever since he entered politics could in a few years speak as a Pashtun nationalist instead.

Anujan wrote:It is unproductive to focus on the fact that Jinnah did call for partitioning the country on religious lines, incited religion-based violence by calling for direct action day, conspired with Churchill, and left the subcontinent with 2 feuding powers who have not reconciled to this day.

We have to instead focus on why he changed his mind. Others are equally to blame, there are extremists on both sides -- Inside Jinnah and Outside Jinnah. It is not productive to point fingers because Hindu-Muslim disunity affects whole of South Asia. Before India complains that it was cut out of the subcontinent, they should realize Pakistan itself victim of partition and was cut out of the subcontinent.

We should focus and and solve the root cause of Jinnah's radicalization.

Johann wrote: {excellent quotes deleted}
Unbelievable isn't it?

After Partition we were among the very few Hindu families who did not want to migrate to India. We mistakenly thought that as large numbers of Muslims would continue to live in India, the same would be true of Hindus in Pakistan. Our resolve was strengthened when a few days prior to Partition, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, categorically pronounced that people were free to go to their mosques or temples and practice their faith because the state would never mix religion with politics. He reinterpreted his thesis of two nations, Muslims and Hindus, to mean Pakistanis and Indians.
Jinnah’s encouraging statement apart, there was his gesture to select a Hindu poet, Jagan Nath Azad, to compose the national anthem of Pakistan. The anthem was changed after Jinnah’s death for communal considerations: a Hindu writing the national anthem of a Muslim state appeared unthinkable.Moreover, our family’s lifestyle was so comfortable that we did not wish to uproot ourselves. We had substantial property and my father was a leading medical practitioner in town. How could he, then past 60, begin his practice afresh in a new city? He had already spent most of his savings a few months prior to Independence building a new house, a new dispensary and an array of shops.I have fond memories of my home, at Trunk Bazaar, Silakot, a two-storey house with a garden at the back where there was an old grave which my mother said was the qabar (grave) of some pir (saint). The grave was like a family shrine where we prayed in our own way and sought refuge from the outside world. It was here that we lit a lamp every Thursday and made an offering of sweets which we, the children, subsequently distributed amongst ourselves. A few years before Partition some Muslims demanded a passage to the grave on the plea that they should have free access to their religious site. We had to yield to the demand but the passage, which cut through our property, was rarely used. I recall one occasion when the pundit dropped in at the house. A visit from him was always eagerly awaited because he would also read our palms. To me he said that I would read the malechh vidya (a language of foreigners), thereby meaning English. He also predicted that I would travel a lot by udhan khatola (plane). When my youngest brother Sindhu showed his hand, he was dismissed in a second with the remark that the lines on his hand had not properly developed. This was perhaps his way of saying that Sindhu would not live long.When my grandmother died, I rode a horse alongside the cortege of family and friends who carried the coffin to the cremation ground. Women, some of them hired, rhythmically beat their breasts. Brahmins were fed one day and the poor of the locality on another. My grandmother apparently evoked a great measure of respect because scores of people were gathered at the cremation ground. I remember, I went to Haridwar with the family to immerse her ashes in River Ganges. I do not recall crying because the whole ceremony of her death wore an aura of festivity. This was the custom among Hindus when a woman died at a ripe old age.My immediate family comprised my father, mother and four brothers — Rajinder, Hardip, Surinder — and a sister, Raj, who used to live in Jamshedpur at the time of Partition. Sindhu had died of cholera a few months earlier. I can never forget his last moments: he passed away with his head resting on my lap. He called me bhapa (elder brother), and when his moment came, he asked me to hold him tight so as to prevent anyone from taking him away. I held him tight, but I could feel his body going limp.His last words were, ‘Bhapa leave me, I can see the light. I am going there’, and then he was gone. His loss left me distraught for a long time.His parting words often make me wonder whether there is indeed a higher power controlling the universe. The light, to which Sindhu referred, represents a power which eventually leads us in our journey from life to death. Why? How? And when? I cannot say, but, notwithstanding my leftist leanings, I have come to believe that there is a power beyond: be it God or any other name you may choose to give it. I have oscillated between faith and doubt for many years but have come to accept that there is a force which I feel within but which I cannot explain. I am neither an atheist nor an agonistic; I am a believer, but notwithstanding this I have failed to curb my doubts and misgivings, and prayer has not helped either.I envy those who have an implicit faith in God. They do not have to seek explanations because they don’t need any. I am convinced that there is something called destiny which makes you choose a particular path from the many before you. In my own life, I have preferred one option over another without really knowing why, and that has made all the difference. I studied law but settled on journalism. I tried to join the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) but failed to make it. Had I been successful I would have retired 25 years ago. But this is destiny. Perhaps my faith springs from something I read many years ago inscribed on a tablet on a restaurant wall near Jama Masjid in Delhi: Waqt se pehley nahin, Muqaddar se ziada nahin (Not before your time, nor more than your destiny).

My wife, Bharti, is quite the opposite. She has implicit faith in god and is a practising Hindu, who goes to the temple every day and fasts on the days enjoined by her religion. She organises havan for her children and grandchildren on their birthdays and has dragged me along to many pilgrimages, from Amarnath in the north to Rameshwaram in the south.I have, however, always believed in the pir buried in the back garden of our house in Sialkot. I respect him as a family elder or patron, protecting from all unpleasant events. Even when I left Murray College at Sialkot to join the Forman Christian College in Lahore (I was refused admission in Government College), I carried with me the blessings of the pir, my unseen guardian. I feel he represents something spiritual; something akin to bhakti or sufism. Did this dependence make me a coward? Anyone could bully me. I accepted beatings in the brawls in which I unwillingly participated. A physically strong person always impressed me. Aptly, my mother had nicknamed me Bhola (innocent).

Johann wrote:

Anindya wrote:As a descendant of people, who lost family members during the Direct action day, this fascination with Jinnah's "change of heart" is rather uninteresting, why not give at least some of the focus to people like Gopal Patha, in stead?

I'm sorry for your family's losses.

This is the Pakistan thread, and ideological transformation isn't just a historical curiosity. It's something that is possible within Pakistan's ruling class as well.

It may sound utterly ridiculous, but for example I don't find it impossible that someone like Imran Khan, who has spoken passionately as a Pakistani nationalist ever since he entered politics could in a few years speak as a Pashtun nationalist instead.

In its general outlook and ideal as regards the future, the All-India Moslem League stands abreast of the Indian National Congress and is ready to participate in any patriotic efforts for the advancement of the country as a whole. In fact, this readiness of the educated Moslems, only about a decade after they first entered the field of politics, to work shoulder to shoulder with the .other Indian communities for the common good of all, is to my mind the strongest proof of the value and need of the separate Moslem political organisation at present. I have been a staunch Congressman throughout my public life and have been no lover of sectarian cries, but it appears to me that the reproach of "separatism" sometimes levelled at Musalmans is singularly inept and wide of the mark, when I see this great communal organisation rapidly growing into a powerful factor for the birth of United India. A minority must, above everything else, have a complete sense of security before its broader political sense can be evoked for co-operation and united endeavour in the national tasks. To the Musalmans of India that security can only come through adequate and effective safeguards as regards their political existence as a community. Whatever my individual opinion may be, I am here to interpret and express the sense of the overwhelming body of Moslem opinion, of which the All-India Moslem League is the political organ.

It is a matter of infinite gratification to me as well as to all patriotic Musalmans that the Moslem communal position in this matter has been recognised and met in an ungrudging spirit by the leaders of the great Hindu community. This was so amply demonstrated by the happy and unanimous decision that was arrived at by the Committees of the Indian National Congress and the All-India Moslem League that met at Calcutta only last November. Our joint Conferences in Lucknow were marked by honest.efforts on. either side to find a lasting solution of our differences, and I rejoice to think that a final settlement has at last been reached which sets the seal on Hindu-Moslem co-operation and opens a new era in the history of our country. A few irreconcilable spirits in .either camp may still exist here and there, but the atmosphere has on the whole been rid of the menace of sectarian thunder, and the prospects of the future are bright with a promise that gladdens the hearts of India's devoted sons. Just as I have no sympathy with a member of my community who even with an assured communal existence would not extend the hand of fellowship to his Hindu brother, so I cannot appreciate the attitude of the Hindu patriot who would insist on his pound of flesh, though in this struggle the entire future of the country, for the sake of a small gain to one side or the other, may be marred forever. As an instance, I would like to point out the recent unfortunate controversy that was raised in these Provinces over the passing of the Municipal Act. But surely, we are not wanting in political wisdom and sagacity. Let us remember, whether Hindus or Musalmans, that New India wants a wholly different type of public worker, of more generous spirit and ampler mould, free from the egoism of sect and the narrowness of bigotry, one who can resist the temptation to crush the weak and yet would not quail before the aggression of the strong, who can rise above the petty preoccupations of the day to the higher plane of devotion and service which alone can give to a people, faith, hope, freedom, and power.

Manny wrote:IMO, Jinnah has helped the Dharmic people of India 1000 times more than Nehru ever did for the same.

mahadevbhu wrote:^^^
anujan, some dirty, bearded Haqqani look-alike Pathan took Jinnah as a baccha boy.

instant radicalization!

Manny wrote:IMO, Jinnah has helped the Dharmic people of India 1000 times more than Nehru ever did for the same.

They kept on being part of the Congrez until the AICWC decided that Mahasabha and congrez membership could not be simultaneously held.

Folks, take a break and enjoy this gem:

The whole sordid story of khilafat is avoided - because that shows how it was INC that gave the first real break politically to Islamists who would later tear the country apart, and that initially in this game Jinnah was a booted out loser.

NEW DELHI – The problems and dilemmas confronting Pakistan’s leadership – including a deepening vortex of mutual suspicions, sectarian killings, and brazen terrorism – are almost too numerous to count. And that leadership – whether civilian, military, and also the now politically active judiciary – has proven congenitally ineffective, leaving the country with a broken economy and a paralyzed political systemCentral to the world’s concerns about the region is the complex reality of the two Taliban movements – one in Afghanistan, over which Pakistan’s powerful Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence has a great deal of control, and one in Pakistan itself, which is waging an increasingly vicious guerrilla war against the Pakistani government. With the United States and NATO due to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2014, there is a real possibility that the Taliban will not only regain power there, but will also turn Pakistan into a truly failed state.The big question across South Asia is whether or not the withdrawal of US/NATO troops will attenuate Pakistan’s dilemmas or deepen them. Much will depend on how Pakistan addresses its internal turbulence, as well as how the situation in Afghanistan evolves. Many Pakistanis, including Sartaz Aziz, a former foreign minister who sees a policy vacuum, are not sanguine.

CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphBut the problem is deeper than an absence of effective leadership. As Pakistani journalist Mir Mohammad Ali Talpur has put it, “[W]hen states are formed on an artificial basis of contrived nationhood or on the basis of religion, as was the case with Pakistan, Israel, and Yugoslavia, they of necessity turn into…states dominated by militarist ideology.” Furthermore, “Pakistan, by claiming to be the legatee of the glory of Islam burdened itself with heavy historical baggage.” CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphBut could it have done otherwise? The elite of Pakistan, Ali Talpur continues, “subscribing to a statist and militarist ideology,” became “the self-appointed defenders of Islam,” and “even the brigands of Islamic history” were accorded the status of heroes, creating an illusion of invincibility and grandeur that is “not in any way in keeping with reality.”According to Kamran Shafi, a retired Pakistani army officer, Pakistan “has lost the trust of most, if not all of our friends.” Indeed, even Pakistan’s “brotherly” Saudi Arabia has extradited to India the man blamed by the Indians as one of the masterminds of the horrific terror attacks on Mumbai in November 2008. In promoting and pursuing terrorism as an instrument of state policy, Pakistan seems intent on never regaining that trust, without which peace, unseen in South Asia since the partition of British India in 1947, is impossible.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphSouth Asia now seems condemned to something akin to a 100-year war. But, unlike Europe’s Hundred Years’ War, this struggle is shadowed by the potential for mutually assured destruction. Given the potent Pakistani and Indian nuclear arsenals, the war could be very short indeed.

Anujan wrote:Folks, take a break and enjoy this gem:

vic wrote:Jinnah was just a cock, the Great Britain was the Sun in the East, if you get what I mean!

Roperia wrote: Jihadis train with live ammunition in Pakistan? and then raid US military base while Secretory Clinton apologizes to Pakistan.

Roperia wrote:Militant Group Poses Risk to U.S.-Pakistan Relations | NYT

Inside the administration, it is a commonly held view that the United States is “one major attack” away from unilateral action against Pakistan — diplomatically or perhaps even militarily, one senior official said.

. . .everything from withdrawing the Islamabad ambassador, to a flurry of intensified drone attacks on Haqqani targets in Pakistan’s tribal belt, to American or Afghan commando raids on Haqqani hide-outs in the same area. Officials concluded that most options ran the risk of setting off a wider conflict with Pakistan’s nuclear-armed military. “It came down to the fact that there wasn’t much we could do,” the official said.

But, officials and some analysts caution, such links do not amount to ISI support for attacks on Americans. They may point to something more subtle: a containment policy that is devised to prevent Haqqani violence inside Pakistan {what the heck is that ?} , all the while providing a strategic card to help influence the future of Afghanistan.

But after the Salerno attack in June, the army chief, Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, privately told American officials he would launch a three-phase military operation against the Haqqanis over the coming 12 months.

Virupaksha wrote:oh, by the way how is the Indian s#it loads of excess capacity electricity selling, sorry gifting (beggars can pay back) to our peace loving neighbors going?

SSridhar wrote:

But after the Salerno attack in June, the army chief, Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, privately told American officials he would launch a three-phase military operation against the Haqqanis over the coming 12 months.

habal wrote:the language that he is speaking .. it sounds almost like marathi to my ear or snatches of it ..

Altair wrote:BTW, why did we promise power in the first place?