Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Aug 21, 2013

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Sep 2013 17:20

mehroke wrote:There are conspiracy theories around that suggest that the top policy makers might have their family jewels in some foreign powers firm grasp. But maybe there is a slim possibility that the weak kneed response is somehow a part of a grand strategy that has not been revealed to us mango Indians.

If one looks at the continuum of Indian foreign policy (including policy towards separatists during the Independence movement), it has been pusillanimous. If there had been a grand strategy, it is yet to reveal itself in all its glory. No one could keep such a grand strategy for 66 years as a top secret across multiple governments even with a supposedly diameterically opposite political ideology in place for a while, especially in a leaky India.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Sep 2013 18:14

the grand strategy is based on the concept of us being a benevolent big brother and making concessions to our litte brother neighbours so that we don't frighten them. however, whatever actions we do or do not take leave our neighbours suspicious of our benevolent intent and so the cycle continues. net net, we keep ceding ground

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 02 Sep 2013 19:55

Jhujar wrote:http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130901/pers.htm
Indo-Pak relations: New beginnings, old endings?by Raj Chengappa

If India doesn’t want to engage directly with Pakistan then busybodies like the US and UN would come forward to be interlocutors.

Unlike Stephen Cohen, who has titled his new book on the India-Pakistan conundrum ‘Shooting for a Century,’ I do not believe that it may take till 2047 for us to live peacefully together. That I am afraid would be too late. In all likelihood we would have annihilated ourselves either through our nuclear weapons or by disintegration into warring states built on ethno-linguistic and religious lines — reverting back to the times preceding British rule.

No insight in the above analysis by Raj Chengappa. The message in the above quotes suit TSP just fine. India may not like US and UN meddling, but TSP is fine with it. Likewise, India may be worried about its disintegration, but TSP is not concerned about its disintegration provided it can take India down with it. Any premise that is based on equal equal damage to both India & TSP suits TSP just great.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 02 Sep 2013 20:47

It was hawker sidley Arrow

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 02 Sep 2013 21:08

Lalmohan wrote:the grand strategy is based on the concept of us being a benevolent big brother and making concessions to our litte brother neighbours so that we don't frighten them. however, whatever actions we do or do not take leave our neighbours suspicious of our benevolent intent and so the cycle continues. net net, we keep ceding ground

Host of reasons, principle among them colonial where we (India and her neighbors) hate each other's guts but don't mind sucking up to our colonial masters, but none of India's neighbors, be it TSP, be it Bangladesh, be it SL, look at India as a big brother. They have raw hatred and contempt and jealousy that they have to live under our shadow. So unlike in the case of say US and its neighbors who look for benevolence from big brother US if you will, India's neighbors want India cut to size, not benevolence per se. Now Bangladesh and SL do not have the capacity nor as much inclination like TSP to execute that wish, but TSP does. Of course, if benevolence on India's part means India being cut to size, TSP doesn't mind that. And in any so called "peace process", thats the outcome TSP demands. Read late J.N. Dixit's book and writings. In one piss process meeting, TSP had the audacity to suggest that India is too big for TSP's comfort. They want all of Kashmir and as a generous gesture, TSP will allow India to keep Himachal Pradesh. There are many in India who would call this "grand strategy" on behalf of big brother India.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Sep 2013 21:31

CRamS wrote:Read late J.N. Dixit's book and writings. In one piss process meeting, TSP had the audacity to suggest that India is too big for TSP's comfort.

This needs to be dicussed further. This concept of ownership is similar to the hubris of the colonial power.
Pakistan had two process of internalization. One was the martial race theory which got embedded inside the military structure. The other is the mughal imperialism ownership which morphed into kind of British colonial hubris to look down on the rest of people in the subcontinent.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 02 Sep 2013 21:42

Ab Tera Kya Hoga Pakistan!

Industries using mangrove wood to beat natural gas shortage

Cheers

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Sep 2013 22:24

Paki Text book, Muslims have more sperm than Hindu's and Xtians:

Or does this rightfully belong to BENIS?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 02 Sep 2013 22:31

yet another puff piece on Pakistan - of course, the article does not mention, that the brains being drained out of Pakistan, also have a strange fascination for providing sexual grooming services in non Muslim countries that they end up in.

'Brain drain' discourages young Pakistanis

As in:
Islamophobia breaks out at BBC: special "uncovers the hidden scandal of sexual grooming of young Sikh girls by Muslim men"

An Inside Out London special, uncovers the hidden scandal of sexual grooming of young Sikh girls by Muslim men. Breaking their silence, they speak to Chris Rogers about their experiences at the hands of these predatory men and why justice is being denied to them by their own community and the police.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 03 Sep 2013 03:28

Cementing Pashtun-Baloch unity essential

Pashtun-Baloch Unity Day was observed in Kabul on Saturday where Pashtun and Baloch leaders gave vent to their views how to address the issue of militancy, insecurity and Talibanization. The crux of what they say is that the military establishment in Pakistan has been responsible for the current day plight of the two peoples—Pashtuns and Balochs. This Unity Day has been observed since 1949 aimed at cementing relations among Pashtuns and Balochs, who are straddling on both sides of the Durand Line. The day has been observed in such a while when Pashtuns and Balochs have become a worst victim to an international conspiracy—the war on terror. Their voices are being gagged and their leaders being killed.

In such a critical juncture, the unity of the two peoples, living in a strategically important region, needs to be cemented more and more. The contentious Durand Line has undermined the strength of the two peoples. On the Afghan side of so-called line, the de-facto frontier stretches from Nimroz in the southeast to Nuristan in the northeast. On the other side of the line, the de-factor border includes the provinces of Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, and the tribal belt—the seven tribal agencies. The land where Pashtuns and Balochs live has been of utmost importance for the international powers because of its geopolitics and strategic location. For certain strategic, economic and other objectives the land of Pashtuns and Balochs have been pushed into a perpetual state of mayhem and confusion. The lives of these two peoples have become miserable at the hands of those who cannot tolerate their political, educational and economic development. To be specific, it is Pakistan that’s blameworthy. Being obsessed unhealthily with Pashtun-Baloch unity, Pashtuns have been given over representation in Pakistan army and its top spy agency, the ISI, while throwing the human and political rights of Balochs away. It is a deliberate attempt by Pakistan military strategists and establishment to bring a cleavage between the two ethnic groups.� Pakistan has long been supporting the Taliban because they also alienate the ethnically, religiously and linguistically diverse populations in Afghanistan and Pakistan. For instance, the Taliban chauvinism has led to the failure to unite with the adjacent Baloch, who at times have demonstrated even greater hostility to the Pakistan state, with their continuous history of insurgent resistance. This is highly advantageous for Pakistan—a country that has already lost its eastern wing in 1971 when one ethnic group, the Bengalis, successfully tore the Pakistan state into two. With secessionist movement in Balochistan, and disgruntle among Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa and the tribal belt, Pakistan is once again faced with the same situation. Being fallen victim to its own strategy, Islamabad has nothing to say but to blame India for security situation in Balochistan. Pakistan is also squaring off with India in Afghanistan but it has lost the race, which is why it has hell-bent on blaming New Delhi for insecurity in the tribal belt in Pakistan. But the allegations of Pakistan seem to be unfounded as Baloch resistance movement started in 1948. It continuously remained a serious challenge for Pakistan in 1958-1959, 1962-63, 1973-77, and 2002-2009 and onward. Instead of waning, their resistance against the Pakistan state has become more vigorous with the passage of time. Pakistan considers the Taliban an effective tool in undermining and gagging the Pashtun irredentist movement and as well as causing a schism among Pashtuns and Balochs. Ethnic Balochs live on both sides of the Durand Line as well as in neighboring Iran. People on both sides of the Durand Line consider it just a line and not an international boundary. The ongoing war on terror has been going against the interests of Pashtuns and Balochs as the war has become directionless. Unlike the Taliban, Pashtun nationalists and Balochs consider the Punjab-led establishment in Pakistan responsible for their backwardness. The war in Afghanistan should have come to an end after the USSR pulled out its troops but it didn’t happen. Why? Because the military establishment in Pakistan didn’t want peace in Afghanistan. It is well evident from the statement of Pakistan’s then Lieutenant General and head of ISI, AKhtar Abdur Rahman, who was assassinated in a plane crash along with then Pakistan President Zia-ul-Haq. He said that Kabul must burn and it is burning even today. Why did he say that Kabul must burn? Because they knew that Kabul has been a symbol of Pashtun-Baloch unity and once that’s destabilized their unity will be undermined forever. But those who are against the unity of Pashtun-Baloch should know that their turn is coming to and end that will be followed by our turn.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Sep 2013 03:41

India, Pakistan clearing decks before PMs’ meet

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Sep 2013 04:08

Lalmohan wrote:the grand strategy is based on the concept of us being a benevolent big brother and making concessions to our litte brother neighbours so that we don't frighten them. however, whatever actions we do or do not take leave our neighbours suspicious of our benevolent intent and so the cycle continues. net net, we keep ceding ground

The 'Grand Strategy' aka (no not him) as 'Chankian', 'Pluralistic', 'Inclusive', the 'Idea of India' etc. is a business plan to keep the Nehru-Gandhi family office/enterprise in business. It is inward looking in much the same way the Ford Family controlled FMC through super voting class B shares.

Fords were automatically given a leg up on the road to the C suite. Until FMC had to mortgage all its assets through a floating charge in 2009 that they relented and thought in terms of a new beginning (Mullaly) as the class A shareholders were about to lynch them.

The NGFO/INC would like to perpetrate the myth that if India fought Pakistan and destroyed it, Indian Muslims would rise and there would be a civil war. Just look up how many times the Arundahatis have voiced it.

The INC heeded the Brits success with divide and conquer: for vote-banks, they divided Hindus into castes, subdivided them by left and right (JNU), language, others by religion, and are now hell bent on fragmenting it further into ethnicity.

All, in the name of perpetuating the primacy of the new scion: one RG who carries no intellectual baggage because he is not burdened by intellect or, for that matter, any human life form ability either. To his credit however, he does know how to take vacations...in Dubai.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2013 04:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:India, Pakistan clearing decks before PMs’ meet

That the two would meet was never in doubt now that the process has been made uninterrupted and uninterruptible. There will be a meeting even if, God forbid, another LoC incident. What we have to wait to see with trepidation is what concessions are offered by us in the one-on-one meeting.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2013 04:29

TSP Mangoes sell at Rs 80/kg at Delhi - Economic Times
Verily, we are the mango people.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Sep 2013 05:22

harbans wrote:Paki Text book, Muslims have more sperm than Hindu's and Xtians:

Or does this rightfully belong to BENIS?

7. All well-fed societies have low fertility

Perhaps india should help Pakis by switching off IWT and throw some chemicals make Pakistan a desert.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Sep 2013 05:25

CRamS wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:the grand strategy is based on the concept of us being a benevolent big brother and making concessions to our litte brother neighbours so that we don't frighten them. however, whatever actions we do or do not take leave our neighbours suspicious of our benevolent intent and so the cycle continues. net net, we keep ceding ground
Host of reasons, principle among them colonial where we (India and her neighbors) hate each other's guts but don't mind sucking up to our colonial masters, but none of India's neighbors, be it TSP, be it Bangladesh, be it SL, look at India as a big brother. They have raw hatred and contempt and jealousy that they have to live under our shadow. So unlike in the case of say US and its neighbors who look for benevolence from big brother US if you will, India's neighbors want India cut to size, not benevolence per se. Now Bangladesh and SL do not have the capacity nor as much inclination like TSP to execute that wish, but TSP does. Of course, if benevolence on India's part means India being cut to size, TSP doesn't mind that. And in any so called "peace process", thats the outcome TSP demands. Read late J.N. Dixit's book and writings. In one piss process meeting, TSP had the audacity to suggest that India is too big for TSP's comfort. They want all of Kashmir and as a generous gesture, TSP will allow India to keep Himachal Pradesh. There are many in India who would call this "grand strategy" on behalf of big brother India.

I doubt there is any "grand" strategy. If and when India opts out the (sic) secularism, everything will become clear for both India and Pakistan.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 03 Sep 2013 05:57

Pak artists all agog about Durga Puja

KOLKATA: The Indo-Pak relationship is set for a new boost. Three Pakistani artists will decorate the Hatibagan Nabinpalli pandal with their unique 'truck art' this Puja. The trio - Haidar Ali, Mumtaz Ahmed and Md Iqbal - will reach Kolkata by the end of this week.
...
"It has always been a part of Bengali tradition and culture to establish communal harmony and peace in mass festival. Keeping this in mind, this year we are presenting this unique work of Pakistani art form. It is not only an effort to highlight Pakistani culture but an initiative to make the binding between two countries stronger. ICCR, Ministry of External Affairs and AIM (Art Illuminates Mankind), an NGO working for the promotion of different kinds of art, have extended their support to make our effort successful," Amitava Ray, a member of Hatibagan Nabinpalli, said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2013 06:11

Kolkattans must be careful now.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 03 Sep 2013 06:53

Yes, IEDs and explosions during Durga Pooja will follow the presence of these Pakistanis in Kolkata.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Sep 2013 08:19

SSridhar wrote:TSP Mangoes sell at Rs 80/kg at Delhi

Statutory warning on crates: "Not to be transported by air"

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Sep 2013 10:02

Interview: Stephen Cohen

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 03 Sep 2013 10:05

What is this fascination for TSPian animals I wonder ?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 03 Sep 2013 10:44

KOLKATA: The Indo-Pak relationship is set for a new boost. Three Pakistani artists will ...

couldn't they give complan instead?

who writes this sort of nonsense. three idiot paki civilians come and indo-pak relationship will get a boost.. :facepalm

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2013 11:01

abhishek_sharma wrote:Interview: Stephen Cohen

If anybody had any doubts, they stand clarified.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 03 Sep 2013 11:50

Imran Khan's party set to restore jihadi content in textbooks

Cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan's party is set to restore "violent jihadist content" removed from school textbooks in Pakistan's militancy-racked Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province, according to a media report today.

After the secular-leaning Awami National Party (ANP) came to power in the province in 2008, education officials removed Quranic verses preaching jihad or holy war and illustrations depicting weapons or violence.

Chapters covering Islamist figures and ideology were replaced with lessons on local poets, philosophers or the region's Pashtun identity. These drastic changes were introduced by the ANP in textbooks used from the first to 12th grade in public schools.

However, Imran Khan's Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf, which now rules Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa with the hardline Jamaat-e-Islami, has announced its intention to "restore violent jihadist content in school textbooks", Radio Free Europe reported on its website today.

Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa's Information Minister Shah Farman told a news conference on August 21 that the government will "rectify" what it calls "holes and mistakes" in textbooks published by the previous government led by the ANP.

"What kind of sovereignty, freedom, and Islamic values is this when Islamic teachings, jihad, and national heroes are removed from textbooks? Jihad is part of our faith. We will not back down (from our decision)," he said.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 03 Sep 2013 12:44

Anindya wrote:Pak artists all agog about Durga Puja

KOLKATA: The Indo-Pak relationship is set for a new boost. Three Pakistani artists will decorate the Hatibagan Nabinpalli pandal with their unique 'truck art' this Puja. The trio - Haidar Ali, Mumtaz Ahmed and Md Iqbal - will reach Kolkata by the end of this week.
...
"It has always been a part of Bengali tradition and culture to establish communal harmony and peace in mass festival. Keeping this in mind, this year we are presenting this unique work of Pakistani art form. It is not only an effort to highlight Pakistani culture but an initiative to make the binding between two countries stronger. ICCR, Ministry of External Affairs and AIM (Art Illuminates Mankind), an NGO working for the promotion of different kinds of art, have extended their support to make our effort successful," Amitava Ray, a member of Hatibagan Nabinpalli, said.

Wonder if any of the Asuras will be modeled after Mush, Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan etc. this year. Yes, the Bengali artisans have been known to occasionally model the asuras after people they don't particularly like.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Sep 2013 14:30

Bengalis inviting Pakis to paint their truck art...?

Take care to see they don't paint an erect minar somewhere on the Pandal when people are not looking..

Lilo wrote:
“Here in Pakistan, the brightly coloured trucks and buses are customised to show where the vehicle and driver are from, or to pay homage to a famous movie star or a well-known military leader. Some trucks may be adorned with quotes from movies or verses from poems. We have adopted this tradition to express some thoughts and links that comes to one’s mind when we think of the UK and its connections with Pakistan.”
.........
British High Commissioner Adam Thomson congratulated the students of National College of Arts and the truck artists who supported blending the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games with Pakistani traditions.
..........

A phully erect Minar-e-Bakistan painted broudly in the middal oph a Gora phlag wich itself ijj sandwiched between two Baki Phlags .
Note the Symbolijim onlee .. ..

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 03 Sep 2013 15:20

When will Indians be invited to make paki festivals secular?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2013 15:38

Indian High Commissioner & Sartaj Aziz Discuss Nawaz-Manmohan Singh Meeting Details - DAWN

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 03 Sep 2013 15:48

vishvak wrote:When will Indians be invited to make paki festivals secular?

they only have gun firing festivals

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Sep 2013 17:51

SSridhar wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Interview: Stephen Cohen
If anybody had any doubts, they stand clarified.

Well, the saving grace is that at least he doesn't think HafeeZPigi is a "freedom fighter" like many among his ilk do.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Sep 2013 17:52

The WAPO has a take on US concerns about TSP and its nukes and other stuff

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... print.html

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 03 Sep 2013 18:12

krishnan wrote:
vishvak wrote:When will Indians be invited to make paki festivals secular?
they only have gun firing festivals

Bogus wordplay on secularism and bluff masters just want to have a nonexistent puki moral ground (if at all) along with crossing over under bogus excuse of being secular artists.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Sep 2013 18:31

Cosmo_R wrote:The WAPO has a take on US concerns about TSP and its nukes and other stuff

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... print.html

CosmoJi,

Uneven sent me that article this morning, and here is the response I sent

Thx Prof. I don't think this would upset the Pak ruling elite that much because US's surveillance is not focused on the real jugular vein of Pak and the only thing that matters to Pak: torment and harass India with its terrorists and call for a nuke war. In fact, the response from Pak to that report should be music to the Pentagon, CIA, and other rulers in DC:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 257153.cms

"Pakistan is fully committed to the objectives of disarmament and non-proliferation. As a nuclear weapons state, Pakistan's policy is characterised by restraint and responsibility," foreign office spokesman Aizaz Chaudhry said.

He further said Pakistan's "nuclear deterrence capability is aimed at maintaining regional stability in South Asia".

So there you have, Pak is clearly saying don't worry, out nukes are only to hit the Indians with. You (west) has nothing to worry about.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Sep 2013 18:33

And also, the WP article mentions the equal equal part too, namely, US is snooping in on India's nukes as well.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Sep 2013 19:37

CRamS wrote:And also, the WP article mentions the equal equal part too, namely, US is snooping in on India's nukes as well.

I was focusing on:

"...expose broad new levels of U.S. distrust".

The US snoops on everybody whether they have nukes or not (Mexico/Brazil recently) and India while being snooped upon, is not showing any new levels of distrust. Merely the old levels.

In many ways I think DDM may unwittingly (because they don't do anything wittingly) cloak everything India does on the strategic front though its breathless, perennially misinformed approach to journalism.

In particular, I was thinking of the K4 launches 10-11 of which were passed off as Prithvis

.

Anyways, India's strategy has to be about weakening the PA to strengthen the civvies. Not holding out much hope on that score.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Sep 2013 19:48

Cosmo_R wrote:
CRamS wrote:And also, the WP article mentions the equal equal part too, namely, US is snooping in on India's nukes as well.
I was focusing on:

"...expose broad new levels of U.S. distrust".

The US snoops on everybody whether they have nukes or not (Mexico/Brazil recently) and India while being snooped upon, is not showing any new levels of distrust. Merely the old levels.

In many ways I think DDM may unwittingly (because they don't do anything wittingly) cloak everything India does on the strategic front though its breathless, perennially misinformed approach to journalism.

In particular, I was thinking of the K4 launches 10-11 of which were passed off as Prithvis .

Anyways, India's strategy has to be about weakening the PA to strengthen the civvies. Not holding out much hope on that score.

<OT>

Cosmo ji,
Please see the below graphic on how much snooping on whom.

Obviously we are in a completely different bracket to Brazil and Mehico.
</OT>

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 03 Sep 2013 19:55

Lilo ji, cannot enlarge the graphic, so unable to read, but what does each color mean?
It's okay I think I can guess from the graphic.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 03 Sep 2013 20:00

People like Lieven and Kohen are wastage of time, in general we should avoid wasting BRF bandwidth by quoting them ad naseum.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Sep 2013 20:08

CRamS wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:The WAPO has a take on US concerns about TSP and its nukes and other stuff

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... print.html
CosmoJi,

Uneven sent me that article this morning, and here is the response I sent

Thx Prof. I don't think this would upset the Pak ruling elite that much because US's surveillance is not focused on the real jugular vein of Pak and the only thing that matters to Pak: torment and harass India with its terrorists and call for a nuke war. In fact, the response from Pak to that report should be music to the Pentagon, CIA, and other rulers in DC:

So there you have, Pak is clearly saying don't worry, out nukes are only to hit the Indians with. You (west) has nothing to worry about.

This report has come now since PRC has increased its activities with P
There may be more coordination and mil cooperation including a new joint Airforce drill. This is the first time which is attracted attention in other countries

This PRC China - Pa ki and USA triangle has got more complicated.