Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 26 Apr 2015 06:37

Teach everyone about ancient Indian roots, provide such education. This will be good enough. Edification is better than any protectionism.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Apr 2015 08:39

X Posted from the “Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion” thread.

arshyam wrote:
Shreeman wrote:
This is currently trending at the top on Twitter: #SoulVultures

SIFY has published an article out on the Christist Evangelical Jihadi aka EvanJihadi effort to profit from the Nepal earth-quake disaster by converting victims to Christism titled “#SoulVultures: Missionary talk of 'converting' quake victims enrages Twitter":

Sify News

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Apr 2015 08:54

Karthik S wrote:Teach everyone about ancient Indian roots, provide such education. This will be good enough. Edification is better than any protectionism.

This is exactly what is being vehemently opposed in the name of secularism. the commies and their followers the congis have a vested interest in preventing this and everything including the kitchen sink is being thrown at the RSS / BJP to scuttle this.

This is not being helped in any way by Hindu nut cases incessantly babbling about ancient Hindus having invented practically everything.

Best to keep a low profile and reduce clutter of so called "past" glories that only gums up the works.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Apr 2015 09:31

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Apr 2015 09:34

Vikrant @vikrantkumar
Instead of sniffer dogs, we should send some Evangelist, they can sniff a victim far better than a Trained dog. #earthquake

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 26 Apr 2015 18:37

chetak wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Teach everyone about ancient Indian roots, provide such education. This will be good enough. Edification is better than any protectionism.
This is exactly what is being vehemently opposed in the name of secularism. the commies and their followers the congis have a vested interest in preventing this and everything including the kitchen sink is being thrown at the RSS / BJP to scuttle this.

This is not being helped in any way by Hindu nut cases incessantly babbling about ancient Hindus having invented practically everything.

Best to keep a low profile and reduce clutter of so called "past" glories that only gums up the works.

With bhajpa in many states now, we can hope something good will happen in this regard.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 26 Apr 2015 19:17

Organizations such as Art of Living of Sri Sri and Isha Yoga Foundation of Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev among others are doing yeomen service in this area and are fully secular. For example, Art of Living programs are accepted as credit courses in several US universities.

Due to the misinformation campaign Indian youth knew only about Manu Smriti and not truely spiritual text such as Patanjali Yoga Sutra, Ashtavakra Yoga, Yoga Vasishtam, Narada bakti Sutras, Shiva Sutras, etc. With the rising popularity of yoga and International Yoga Day (Secular as it is done through UN) celebrations in all government schools, etc., will highlight the positive aspects of Indian culture and the Spiritual wealth that India has to offer to the world. So many things are changing for good in the past few years. But so much more to do.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 26 Apr 2015 19:28

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Apr 2015 20:03

schinnas wrote:Organizations such as Art of Living of Sri Sri and Isha Yoga Foundation of Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev among others are doing yeomen service in this area and are fully secular. For example, Art of Living programs are accepted as credit courses in several US universities.

Due to the misinformation campaign Indian youth knew only about Manu Smriti and not truely spiritual text such as Patanjali Yoga Sutra, Ashtavakra Yoga, Yoga Vasishtam, Narada bakti Sutras, Shiva Sutras, etc. With the rising popularity of yoga and International Yoga Day (Secular as it is done through UN) celebrations in all government schools, etc., will highlight the positive aspects of Indian culture and the Spiritual wealth that India has to offer to the world. So many things are changing for good in the past few years. But so much more to do.

I don't know how many read Manusmriti. It is more spiritual and practical treatise than Naraka Bhakti sutras and other things you mentioned.

That said, I wouldn't mind which Hindu text people read, understand and absorb as long as they study original sanskrit text or a Indic language translation.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Apr 2015 20:14

Textual companion to go with the image posted by Sanjay C a couple of posts above.

Nepal earthquake: US Pastor Tony Miano sparks outcry by suggesting Nepalis should not rebuild their 'pagan shrines' :

The Independent, UK

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Apr 2015 20:36

^^ He is also a homophobe, so he will be routinely criticized. However, the soul harvesting projects won't be touched.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2015 20:45

arun wrote:Textual companion to go with the image posted by Sanjay C a couple of posts above.

Nepal earthquake: US Pastor Tony Miano sparks outcry by suggesting Nepalis should not rebuild their 'pagan shrines' :

The Independent, UK

Watch the blatant openness of the evangelization projects. In the past they are all covert operators and now they got such a brazen braveness.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Apr 2015 22:36

My standard responses are of this kind:

1. Hindus gladly do puja to Jesus and Shiva and Vishnu...
2. We Hindus don't need any intermediary to love Jesus.
3. (Miano's) message is not "love Jesus", it is "become paying member of Church".
4. #SoulVultures How many people (Miano) made angry with Jesus, he must be minion of Satan.
5. If Jesus wanted us to be Christians, he wouldn't send such stupid people like (Miano) to us.
6. Jesus took the Cross to repent for people like (Miano). We accept the apology.

Substitute (EJ's name) for (Miano).

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 26 Apr 2015 22:55

^^^ Intellectually this sounds like a great idea - that is to respond with reason, rationality and sophistication.

However, do you suspect this has not been tried again and again unsuccessfully over multiple pagan paths that existed in Europe, West Asia, etc. Everyone of them has fallen to the Abhramic idiocy!

A simple and sure way to loose a battle is to assume that the enemy thinks like you!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Apr 2015 00:20

A_Gupta wrote:My standard responses are of this kind:

1. Hindus gladly do puja to Jesus and Shiva and Vishnu...
2. We Hindus don't need any intermediary to love Jesus.
3. (Miano's) message is not "love Jesus", it is "become paying member of Church".
4. #SoulVultures How many people (Miano) made angry with Jesus, he must be minion of Satan.
5. If Jesus wanted us to be Christians, he wouldn't send such stupid people like (Miano) to us.
6. Jesus took the Cross to repent for people like (Miano). We accept the apology.

Substitute (EJ's name) for (Miano).

Hindus gladly do puja to Jesus, if only if he is worth doing Puja for. Hindus don't do puja to Jimutavahana & Sibi, Asteeka etc who did more sacrifices for human kind than Jesus. On Yoga front Jesus is at best a low-level Saadhak and in Vedanta he is plain stupid. You don't do puja for every random idiot to prove your Hinduness.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Apr 2015 01:25

Pulikeshi wrote:^^^ Intellectually this sounds like a great idea - that is to respond with reason, rationality and sophistication.

However, do you suspect this has not been tried again and again unsuccessfully over multiple pagan paths that existed in Europe, West Asia, etc. Everyone of them has fallen to the Abhramic idiocy!

A simple and sure way to loose a battle is to assume that the enemy thinks like you!

This is a response in one channel only, which is twitter, in which each thought has to fit in 140 characters. There are certainly N other channels, each needs tactics in line with an overall strategy.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Apr 2015 01:51

I was thinking of something along the following lines for certain online forums, please shoot holes in it before I use it. This is not a universal response.

We Hindus welcome the news of Jesus as another of the infinite manifestations of the Divine. We think it mistaken to consider Jesus as the only or the most important manifestation of the Divine. As long as they do not fall into this error, there is no objection to Hindusto choose or not choose Jesus as their Istha-Devata. We Hindus can love Jesus and Jesus can love us Hindus with no intermediaries. We are human, not sheep, and we do not see any value of being the flock of some pastor or church. We think the Church, with its officialdom and bureaucracy is what keeps Christians separate from the Divine, and while recognizing the Church's right to exist as long as some Christians mistakenly think they need it, we consider it to be a major error and impediment in the spiritual evolution of Christians in particular and humankind in general. As to missionaries and evangelists, we decry the egotism in their belief that they are instruments to bring God to us Hindus, or that they are doing some kind of good work or doing us a favor. We Hindus visit the Divine every day in our puja and meditations, and He/She/It/That replies to each of us individually and appropriately based on our abilities to receive and understand. We think Jesus will speak to us directly if He thinks it necessary, and reject all self-styled messengers, alleged carriers of the Good News, and such, who think that our Hindu relationship with the Divine is inadequate, or false, unless mediated through their good offices, unless we have membership in some Church. We pray that they are led from this Tamasic arrogance into the Light. At times, their arrogance leads them into outright aggression against us; and while we will be as gentle as is humanly possible, we will respond firmly and proportionally to their aggression.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Apr 2015 03:29

FWIW, it would be better to drop all the "fighting" words. Ending it at - I personally think dropping the last sentence elevates it to excellent from merely good.

~~At times, their arrogance leads them into outright aggression against us; and while we will be as gentle as is humanly possible, we will respond firmly and proportionally to their aggression~~.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 27 Apr 2015 04:42

I would say this and leave it at that. "We Hindus reject the idea of Jesus. AMEN"

Misra · Post by **Misra** » 27 Apr 2015 05:11

need to intellectually move from:
hindu to abrahamic -- for you, yours is yours; for me, mine is mine and yours

to:
hindu to abrahamic -- for you, yours is yours; for me, mine is mine

this is what folks like Rajiv Malhotra have been attempting. and what Swami Vivekananda propounded in the 19th century by highlighting the stark differences.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Apr 2015 05:42

SwamyG wrote:I would say this and leave it at that. "We Hindus reject the idea of Jesus. AMEN"

+10^72

If one insists, I would add this!

"We Hindus, are trained & intellectualized to see God-consciousness in every being even in animals, trees and rocks; but not the ignorant, masochist-ego called Jesus that covers that God-consciousness."

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 27 Apr 2015 05:58

A_Gupta wrote: 5. If Jesus wanted us to be Christians, he wouldn't send such stupid people like (Miano) to us.
6. Jesus took the Cross to repent for people like (Miano). We accept the apology.

I like the above two very much though it is useful only while posting on internet anonymously. On the ground though I like people like Miano.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Apr 2015 06:51

Indian are not even asking the local converts to sacrifice any thing except no loyalty to outside power centres, controllers. This what is expected from ours.. Anjan Kanha Jo Aankh lye Phoote ( Minority making. wishing us blind and degradation , then what else is left to say)

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 27 Apr 2015 09:53

A_Gupta wrote:I was thinking of something along the following lines for certain online forums, please shoot holes in it before I use it. This is not a universal response.

Thanks for clarifying... my first draft - still a lot to thing about:

My question was genuine not asked with any motive – as I do not know of a strategy that will work against the barren desert forces that brewed these Religions. Given the current disarray and idiocy, while some inherent strengths have prolonged Hinduism, I suspect the end will come if set on current course.

That said if I were to indulge in a response along the lines you suggest – I’d stick to two basic drivers – 1) No overt negativity 2) Minor rejection of Church/Jesus, but rather a reinforcement of what you are saying…

Also, would stay away from suggesting violence. That needs to be two fold - one finding and defining the intellectual space for when violence is necessary in the Hindu reality, the other is the act itself and that need not be defined. In any case it is not part of the message imho.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 27 Apr 2015 09:56

Have you heard the Hindu Good News? – Live mindfully, cherish your land, its flora and fauna, and be kind, seek true knowledge and most of all be free.

The divine manifests itself in infinite ways - Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mani, Shukracharya, Bharadwaja, Vashista, and so many were special in their own right. As a Hindu, you have the freedom to really choose any, all, any other or none of these sages to help in your journey of self-realization. Further, as a Hindu, no matter where you live, it is imperative that you stay connected to the land, its flora and fauna in your journey. All of Earth and her creatures are sacred, so give back more than you take from her. This means anyone arguing for exclusion or special status for any land, people or Religion should be viewed with suspicion.

The Church is man made and has often lost its way, every Hindu believes that they are the Temple, Church, Mosque or Gurdwara. Every waking hour is a prayer and every dreamy night is being one with the divine. Hindus do not need devices other than those they freely choose. Hindus detest organized Religion and embrace true knowledge, come rejoice in the quest for it. Spread the word of this Hindu Good News to others. Live free or not at all. May this Hindu Good News spread through you.
Om Shanti, Shanthi, Shanthi

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 27 Apr 2015 10:04

There are two other messages in my mind - marketing is always multi-dimensional:

1. Another message Have you heard The truth about Religion: This message will ask a believer - Christist, Islamist, etc. to reject their beliefs and embrace the true freedom of being a Hindu. The only path where your actions are dictated by your common sense and not a book that is outdated. etc.

2. How to be a Hindu ? - Light a candle and chant "Om Shanti" be at peace, feel the oneness, the love of the divine and live mindfully and freely. etc.

just thinking aloud.... may change my mind...

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 27 Apr 2015 11:15

A_Gupta,

You will like this (From Zeb-un-Nisa the daughter for Aurangzeb):
could use the original urdu couplet if someone can find it... long time since I heard it remembered by above discussion.

"Oh Makhfi, it is the path of love and alone you must go.
No one suits your friendship even if Jesus be though."

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Apr 2015 20:59

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2012 ... archbishop

The next ArchBishop of Delhi says that "the religious and cultural pluralism within which the Christian community finds itself" is a problem for the Church.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 27 Apr 2015 22:24

^Our lack of presence in public life in general and the political arena in particular and our inability to influence the policies of the Government is the biggest problem faced by the Catholic in India. The Catholics and Christians do not have a voice anywhere in the Government.

Sonia Gandhi was Jaini?

No wonder they call them primates.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Apr 2015 00:28

^^^ Pulikeshi, I am going to steal from your statement about the Hindu Good News.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Apr 2015 01:16

Pulikeshi wrote:Have you heard the Hindu Good News? – Live mindfully, cherish your land, its flora and fauna, and be kind, seek true knowledge and most of all be free. Most importantly when you let go of your ego you become the absolute God-consciousness yourself.

The divine manifests itself in infinite ways - Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mani, Shukracharya, Bharadwaja, Vashista, and so many were special in their own right. As a Hindu, you have the freedom to really choose any, all, any other or none of these sages to help in your journey of self-realization. Further, as a Hindu, no matter where you live, it is imperative that you stay connected to the land, its flora and fauna in your journey. All of Earth and her creatures are sacred, so give back more than you take from her. This means anyone arguing for exclusion or special status for any land, people or Religion should be viewed with suspicion.

The Church is man made and has often lost its way, every Hindu believes that they are the Temple, Church, Mosque or Gurdwara. Every waking hour is a prayer and every dreamy night is being one with the divine. Hindus do not need devices other than those they freely choose. Hindus detest organized Religion and embrace true knowledge, come rejoice in the quest for it. Spread the word of this Hindu Good News to others. Live free or not at all. May this Hindu Good News spread through you.
Om Shanti, Shanthi, Shanthi

Very good Pulikeshi ji... I would add just the blue item.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 28 Apr 2015 01:48

What about RM's (and others also) who have formulated:

Christian good news: We are born in sin, Jesus was sent to redeem, and suffered to relieve us of his sin. Now everyone can enter heaven by acceping Jesus as their savior

Hindu good news: We are not sinners, but have the spark of divinity in us. It is up to each to find their inner divinity and become enlightened and achieve true liberation. Noone needs to suffer for us, and no intermediary is required.

http://hindugoodnews.com/

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Apr 2015 03:35

Christian good news: We are born in sin, Jesus was sent to redeem, and suffered to relieve us of his sin. Now everyone can enter heaven by acceping Jesus as their savior

Well that explains why in this world-view children may sometimes get horrifying diseases and die, they are born in sin.

BTW What is the cause of this sin?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Apr 2015 03:38

adam ate apple. the original sin.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Apr 2015 03:40

You're pulling my leg.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 28 Apr 2015 03:47

sanjaykumar wrote:You're pulling my leg.

It gets better. Because we are all sinners, had Jesus been born the normal way, he would also be a sinner. Hence "virgin birth" etc(God the father, mother unknown). So he wasn't a sinner technically, and could suffer for the sins of mankind to lift Gods curse on it, that God had issued upon the apple eating. Hence "God sent his only begotten son to suffer for us and save us". Save us from the very curse that God himself had made.

BTW, how come apple hasn't been proscribed as devil fruit?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Apr 2015 03:57

It gets better. Because we are all sinners, had Jesus been born the normal way, he would also be a sinner. Hence "virgin birth" etc(God the father, mother unknown). So he wasn't a sinner technically, ....

I had not actually thought about that.
I think I may be beginning to understand. Adam meets madam and they eat the fruit, upon which an akashvani is heard, 'you have fukled'.

So we are sinners.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Apr 2015 04:00

Old story, this version via Wiki. We are looking for our Rishi Agastya.

Once Ilvala invited a tapasvi Brahmin, played host to him with reverence and asked him to grant a boon. He desired to have a son equal to Indra. But the sage did not oblidge. Following this, his anger turned to hatred against all Brahmins and medicants. Ilvala and his brother Vatapi took a grudge against sages and hated them implacably.

Vatapi knew the art of transformation and had the power to change into any life form. Ilvala knew the ‘Mritasanjivani’ mantra to bring back the dead to life. They used these powers to loot and kill people. Ilvala would invite a brahman to a feast and Vatapi would turn himself into a goat. There he would serve the meat of the goat which Vatapi had turned into. They would offer the meat as a satvic food, that is, as a vegetarian dish as sages consume satvic food. After the Brahmin had partaken of the feast he would call his brother out by shouting "Vatape athragacha" who would rend his way back to life, tearing the belly of the guest.

Once the sage Agastya was invited. Agastya came to Ilvala and the sage was received with reverence and great honour. Sage Agastya with his divne power knew the intention of the hosts and wanted to put an end to this. Agastya ate the food served to him. As soon as the sage finished eating, Ilvala called,"Vatape atragacha"(Vatapi come here). Immediately Agastya what he was up to and passed his right hand over his stomach and said,"Vatapi Jeernobhava"(Vatape get digested). Vatapi could not come out of Agastya's stomach and that was the end of the demon. Ilvala, was scared. He went on shouting "Vatapi atragacha" Agastya then he said,"oh,you wicked Ilvala, you wanted to kill me,but your brother Vatapi cannot come out and he is already digested". Ilvala decided to take revenge on Agastya for killing his brother and attacked Agastya. With the power of his tapas (penance), Agastya reduced Ilvala to ashes. In this way Agastya rid the world of the two terrible demons who were troubling the people and helped people live in peace.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Apr 2015 04:04

I would have thought this was sin.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatic ... 29.htm#The Tortures

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Apr 2015 04:05

"Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity."
- Pope Innocent III

Take that you Hindoos.