Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 03:21

abhijitm wrote:Also since we are on the subject, India needs a doctrine of sanctions against any nation that harms Indian interest local or abroad. Sanctions should be approved or lifted by parliament votes. Once that in place and each GoI binding, then all this debate of should we or should not play with them, make movies with them etc will also be driven by rules rather than just emotions.

Not the topic of this thread, but in today's India, that kind of nationalism is a very very remote, non-existent possibility. Greater chance of New Delhi being hit by a meteorite than something sensible like what you suggest.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 03:25

BP alert:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial ... A0SrN.html

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 28 Nov 2015 03:27

Centre unlikely to give nod to Indo-Pak cricket series in Sri Lanka

NEW DELHI: The government continues to sit tight over BCCI's proposal seeking nod for resumption of cricketing ties with Pakistan in Sri Lanka next month, amid indications of serious reservations about the cricket body's plan.

"They have jumped the gun," a senior government leader said, adding that revival of cricketing ties with the hostile neighbour may not necessarily be in accord with popular mood at a time when Pakistan continues with its support to terror activities.

The reluctance should put paid to early restoration of cricketing contact because India's schedule has no window to accommodate Pakistan beyond December.

While the BCCI appeared to be out of step with the government's tough approach towards Pakistan since the latter reneged on the commitment it made at Ufa in Russia earlier this year to discuss terrorism, the step up in attacks have been a further setback.

Authorities here are convinced that the attack on the Army camp this week was part of a larger plan by terror groups and their patrons in Pakistan army and the ISI to carry out big strikes. "They want to go after big civilian targets," a senior government functionary said while indicating that the BCCI proposal may not fly with the political leadership at this juncture.

"One terror attack when cricket is on and the very set, not just political opponents, who are egging you on to play cricket will be attacking you for sending a wrong message to Pakistan," the functionary said.

Cheers

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Nov 2015 05:42

Peregrine wrote:Centre unlikely to give nod to Indo-Pak cricket series in Sri Lanka

While the BCCI appeared to be out of step with the government's tough approach towards Pakistan since the latter reneged on the commitment it made at Ufa in Russia earlier this year to discuss terrorism, the step up in attacks have been a further setback.

Authorities here are convinced that the attack on the Army camp this week was part of a larger plan by terror groups and their patrons in Pakistan army and the ISI to carry out big strikes. "They want to go after big civilian targets," a senior government functionary said while indicating that the BCCI proposal may not fly with the political leadership at this juncture.

"One terror attack when cricket is on and the very set, not just political opponents, who are egging you on to play cricket will be attacking you for sending a wrong message to Pakistan," the functionary said.

BCCI has, in fact, tried to accomplish a fait accompli whereby they say they are ready to have the series with terroristan and if it does not happen they can blame the Indian government. Unfortunately -even if BCCI are lily white, criminals could behave in this way. Maybe with some governments BCCI would be able to get away with a few crores in bribes and cricket passes to matches in India and a mew memberships of cricket associations. For example the many State Cricket Association memberships are closed. No one can be admitted any more - and BCCI could perhaps accommodate a couple of government VVIPs who not only enjoy cricket but club amenities as well - booze etc and VVIP parking during matches when everyone else parks a thousand km away and walks.

Whether the government can have a policy about cricket or not is an interesting point.

If an Indian wants to marry a Paki the government has no policy on encouraging or discouraging that. The policy is only related to whether the Paki can live in India after marriage. Visa rules apply and application for citizenship is not easy. One can imagine that a Paki married to an India may want Indian citizenship as desperately as Indians slobber for US citizenship. The latter may be easier for an Indian than for a Paki to get Indian citizenship.

If St Stephen's Delhi want to play a cricket match against LUMS in Lahore, the government has no policy to prevent that. They can go and play.

If BCCI happens to take the Indian cricket team to Sri Lanka and PCB happens to appear in Sri Lanka at the same time and a match takes place there - once again the government has no policy to prevent that. It is private business. The problem that the GoI creates for BCCI is in terms of money.. Those matches have to be broadcast in India. BCCI collects the rent. Indian advertisers have to pay the TV channels and those TV channels have to pay BCCI (probably part in advance) and the BCCI has to pay terroristan. This is where Indian Government POLICY steps in. The policy is that the money should have an audit trail and should be transparently accounted for. If the govt had no such policy then BCCI would not give a rat's ass for the government and conduct matches wherever and whenever.

The point is that despite the fact that some people think that the Indian government should behave like , or actually is, a tinpot dictatorship of a banana republic which should have nationalism stamped across its forehead there is an inherent contradiction in demanding a ban on sporting events using "nationalism" as an excuse (on the one hand) and failing to understand the freedoms that India allows its citizens (on the other hand). Somehow we all seem to understand the word "freedom" only when it is used in an American context. American bans may be called nationalism, but otherwise it is freedom. This of course is complete nonsense. The freedom comes first - at least in India. There is freedom to marry or play matches. The government cannot clamp down on such freedoms just because an ill informed or illiterate viewpoint randomly demands that a restriction of freedom to play a sport is "nationalism".

Banning sport is a restriction of freedom. Nationalism is no excuse. Except under emergency war conditions freedoms cannot be restricted using that much raped word "nationalism". And freedom exists outside the US too, a fact that may come as a surprise to some people. The government cannot ever have a "policy" of banning a sport against just one country. Imagining that only reveals ignorance of freedoms, laws and governance in India of the type that was fostered in all of us in our early education in India. However the government can and does have a policy about visas and the use and transfer of funds.

And we need to remember one thing. If the BCCI is stopped from having this series, they have, in India, the freedom to take it to court and fight the Indian government asking why the series was banned. The government will have to engage its lawyers to answer that if the BCCI chooses to do that. I am not sure what would happen in tinpot or non tinpot allegedly "free" countries. If the BCCI has no criminal intent or connections they should do that. After all they have everything to gain.

Of course the government, if it stops the series, is under no obligation to state that the series was stopped because they will not be able to control financial irregularities conducted outside India or whatever the real reason might be. The government has the perfectly legitimate right to beat about the bush and pander to popular sentiment and claim that the series was stopped because they are so nationalistic. But if we get fooled by such rhetoric it is only an indicator that we are equally suckers who can get taken for a ride as much as others who think that playing with Pakistan fosters peace.

just sayin..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Nov 2015 06:14

Pakistan sees government snub in Abdul Basit invite bungle - ToI

A rescinded invitation to Pakistani high commissioner Abdul Basit for a book launch at Rashtrapati Bhavan is threatening to spark yet another row between the two countries.

Pakistan has alleged that Basit was disinvited at the last moment. He was to attend the launch organised by a media group at 11.30am on Thursday. Pakistani sources said Basit received a message late on Wednesday night from the organisers saying he wasn't welcome for the launch and that the invite was withdrawn by the media group at the behest of official agencies.

"The organisers refused to give any reason for withdrawal of the invite. This was in very bad diplomatic taste," said a Pakistani source, calling it a government-inspired snub

Sachidanand Murthy, editor of the Week magazine which organised the event, disputed the allegations. Emphasising that there was no question of de-inviting the Pakistani high commissioner, Murthy said, "We had invited five ambassadors to the book event, including those of the US, France and Pakistan. However, we had overlooked the fact that to invite accredited ambassadors for an event organised at Rashtrapati Bhavan, we had to go through the MEA protocol. Since we had not done so, we called up all five envoys to apologise and promised to hold a separate event for them."

Significantly, Murthy even said that Basit had been "very understanding" of the matter, something which shows that the protest against the affront to their high commissioner may have been an afterthought and an attempt to make a political point against the government. Senior government officials here said they had nothing to do with the event.

Last month, Karachi's elite Sindh Club had refused to host Indian high commissioner T C A Raghavan for an event. As TOI reported on October 29, the club said no to hosting Raghavan and his wife after they had landed in Karachi. The organisers then called off the event and looked for another venue.

Pakistan has now invited foreign minister Sushma Swaraj for the 'Heart of Asia' conference next month but India is yet to take a decision. India doesn't want either Swaraj or foreign secretary S Jaishankar to meet their counterparts before Pakistan agrees to a dialogue between the national security advisers, as it calls upon Islamabad to acknowledge the significance of addressing the issue of terrorism "in all its forms" as decided in Ufa. Top sources said a high-level delegation will visit Pakistan for the conference but it is not likely to be headed by Swaraj.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Nov 2015 06:43

Looks like the PCB and the civilian Govt of Pakistan tried to pre-empt, force GOI's hand.
Prima Facie, BCCI looks like they were part of this plan - maybe the BCCI is stuffed with Congress pasand people.

OR

BCCI, is caught between a rock and a hard place, they have to give something to the beggars across the border, so they play a dog and pony show about, 1. Inviting Paki Cricket Board and deferring to GOI to be the bad cop, while they played the good cops.

Anyways, is there such a dearth of Paki news that we are discussing Cricket here hain ji? This is so pukeworthy onlee !!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Nov 2015 07:07

Gagan wrote:
Anyways, is there such a dearth of Paki news that we are discussing Cricket here hain ji? This is so pukeworthy onlee !!!

Precisely my point. Worse if cricket news is brought in to simply bash Indian governmental actions for imagined policy or imagined lack of policy

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 07:34

Gagan wrote:
Anyways, is there such a dearth of Paki news that we are discussing Cricket here hain ji? This is so pukeworthy onlee !!!

I disagree. This is Paki news in the sense that a NO from govt of India will send a reasonably strong message of resolve.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Nov 2015 08:28

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan sees government snub in Abdul Basit invite bungle - ToI
A rescinded invitation to Pakistani high commissioner Abdul Basit for a book launch at Rashtrapati Bhavan is threatening to spark yet another row between the two countries.

Pakistan has alleged that Basit was disinvited at the last moment. He was to attend the launch organised by a media group at 11.30am on Thursday. Pakistani sources said Basit received a message late on Wednesday night from the organisers saying he wasn't welcome for the launch and that the invite was withdrawn by the media group at the behest of official agencies.

"The organisers refused to give any reason for withdrawal of the invite. This was in very bad diplomatic taste," said a Pakistani source, calling it a government-inspired snub

Sachidanand Murthy, editor of the Week magazine which organised the event, disputed the allegations. Emphasising that there was no question of de-inviting the Pakistani high commissioner, Murthy said, "We had invited five ambassadors to the book event, including those of the US, France and Pakistan. However, we had overlooked the fact that to invite accredited ambassadors for an event organised at Rashtrapati Bhavan, we had to go through the MEA protocol. Since we had not done so, we called up all five envoys to apologise and promised to hold a separate event for them."

Significantly, Murthy even said that Basit had been "very understanding" of the matter, something which shows that the protest against the affront to their high commissioner may have been an afterthought and an attempt to make a political point against the government. Senior government officials here said they had nothing to do with the event.

Last month, Karachi's elite Sindh Club had refused to host Indian high commissioner T C A Raghavan for an event. As TOI reported on October 29, the club said no to hosting Raghavan and his wife after they had landed in Karachi. The organisers then called off the event and looked for another venue.

Pakistan has now invited foreign minister Sushma Swaraj for the 'Heart of Asia' conference next month but India is yet to take a decision. India doesn't want either Swaraj or foreign secretary S Jaishankar to meet their counterparts before Pakistan agrees to a dialogue between the national security advisers, as it calls upon Islamabad to acknowledge the significance of addressing the issue of terrorism "in all its forms" as decided in Ufa. Top sources said a high-level delegation will visit Pakistan for the conference but it is not likely to be headed by Swaraj.

looks like a not so subtle tittee for tatee and the message has been received loud and clear. Pity that a few other diplomats got caught in the cross fire.

Who TF is some silly lefty magazine to invite anyone to a function at the rashtrapati bhavan without clearing it through the GOI first??

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Nov 2015 08:41

>>I disagree. This is Paki news in the sense that a NO from govt of India will send a reasonably strong message of resolve.

Cricketing ties will be resumed in 12 months. No resolve on GoIs part.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Nov 2015 08:54

Excuse me for posting an image.

Pakistan High Commissioner to India Abdul Basit and columnist Sudheendra Kulkarni watching a video film during the Pakistan High Commission lecture series in New Delhi on Friday. -Photo: PTI; Courtesy - The Hindu

Is Sudheendra Kulkarni becoming another MSA? How many of them have started like this?

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 28 Nov 2015 09:04

^^^ I have a strong feeling that kulkarni guy is the guy who Advani names as someone in PMO who did not want anything bad to happen to packs since he was part of ABV PMO and later booted out

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Nov 2015 09:27

Kulkarni is an opportunist, that's all - essentially not in any position to do any real harm, or any real good. Kind of like the woolly worm that crawls out from under one rock and is seen on its way to the bottom of another.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Nov 2015 09:41

Ashraf Ghani seeks Pakistani Pashtun leaders’ assistance
http://tribune.com.pk/story/999899/regi ... ssistance/

ISLAMABAD: Afghanistan’s President Dr Ashraf Ghani has sought the help of senior Pakistani Pashtun leaders to bring about peace and end insecurity in the region, the Presidential Palace in Kabul said on Friday.He had invited political leaders from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan to discuss their role in bringing about peace in Afghanistan and the region.The visitors from Pakistan include Awami National Party President Asfandyar Wali Khan and central leader Afrasiab Khattak, Afzal Khan Lala’s son Dr Salim Khan, Pashtoonkhwa Milli Awami Party chief Mahmood Khan Achakzai and Qaumi Watan Party leader Aftab Sherpao. The delegation also includes ex-governor of K-P Shaukatullah Khan and former ambassador Ayaz Wazir.“This [Afghanistan] is your own home and you are always welcome here,” Ghani was quoted as telling the Pakistani leaders in the statement. “All Afghans are proud and happy that you have come to your own home with the messages of peace. We share pain and happiness,” he said.The Afghan president said frequent visits further strengthen relations that lead to peace and security in the region. Recalling the services of Pashtun leaders like Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan and Abdul Samad Khan Achakzai, he said it was the visiting leaders’ responsibility and duty to accomplish the former’s wishes. Ghani also condoled the demise of Afzal Khan Lala.Speaking on behalf of the Pakistani delegation, Sherpao said, “Afghanistan is a sovereign country and we have always wished peace and security in Afghanistan. We have brought the message of sympathies of the people of Pakistan for you.”Talking to The Express Tribune ahead of the visit, Khattak had said the Pakistani leaders were invited by Ghani as part of his quest to press ahead consultations. “The Afghan president wants to seek our opinion for improvement in relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan and to promote peace in the region,” he said.It is the second visit by top Pashtun leaders to Kabul this year. They last visited in January.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 09:51

SSJi, as far as I can tell, SK is already an MSA. He has anointed himself as this great messiah of peace. and his remaining life duty is to bring around India to make piss with TSP, by making concessions as the "big brother". It seems to me he suffered some kind of a mid life crisis in 2004 when NDA lost the general elections, and by obsessing on this mission of his, he has given a new meaning to his life

. Hope nobody is listening to him in GoI.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Nov 2015 11:26

Jhujar wrote:Ashraf Ghani seeks Pakistani Pashtun leaders’ assistance
ISLAMABAD: Afghanistan’s President Dr Ashraf Ghani has sought the help of senior Pakistani Pashtun leaders to bring about peace and end insecurity in the region

That will not happen unless and until a plebiscite is conducted in FATA & KP to determine where the Pakhtuns want to go. The Durand Line treaty expired more than two decades ago and there is no legal sanctity to Pakistani occupation of Pakhtun lands. We have to extend diplomatic, moral support to the oppressed Pakhtuns in Pakistan-held KP to determine their own future. The non-resolution of this issue is the reason for instability and terrorism in the region and this issue is a potential nuclear flashpoint.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 28 Nov 2015 14:32

Pakistan ready for talks with India without preconditions: Sharif

VALLETTA: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has said for sustainable peace, Pakistan is ready for dialogue with India without preconditions, Geo News reported.

He also said Pakistan intends to maintain friendly relations with all its neighbours, including India and Afghanistan.

Sharif stated this when he met British Premier David Cameron on the sidelines of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in the Maltese capital on Friday.

Both also agreed to continue close collaboration in diverse fields, particularly in trade, investment and security.

WLL! WELL!! WELL!!! So finally Nawaz does "Goothna Tekna" i.e. kneeling on the knees to Modi Ji's "Takni Hai To Take Nahin To Doosri Dookan Dekh" Policy! MODI JI'S INDIA WINS!!!

Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 28 Nov 2015 16:04

Appreciate that this may not be the appropriate thread, but, it is a pointer to India how it should deal with the the World's No. 1 Perpetrator of Terrorism in the World i.e. Cwapistan "the Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists".

Russia halts visa-free regime for Turks from January 1: Lavrov

MOSCOW: Russia said on Friday it would suspend its visa-free regime for Turkish nationals from January 1 as it retaliates against Ankara for the downing of a Russian warplane.

Moscow has ruled out any military response against NATO member Turkey, but it has pledged broad retaliatory measures targeting entire sectors of the Turkish economy including tourism, agriculture and investments.

Cheers

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Nov 2015 16:47

After “Homeland” the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is fulminating about the portrayal of their country by a HBO comedy series called “The Brink”.

Excerpt:

Pakistan's embassy in Washington accused the show of "maligning" Pakistan and said that it "reinforces stereotypes."

"This is also an affront to the people and institutions in both countries who have invested a lot over the decades in blood and treasure in building this important and mutually beneficial relationship," embassy press attache Nadeem Hotiana said in a statement.

Hotiana also slammed what he said was the show's "repeated insinuations that an intelligence agency of Pakistan is complicit in protecting the terrorists at the expense of innocent Pakistani civilians."

Read it all:

HBO Comedy 'The Brink' Sparks Fury in U.S. Ally Pakistan

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Nov 2015 16:54

Pakistan has approached India for talks - unconditional. Ticker on NDTV.

Nothing on the cricket yet.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 Nov 2015 17:09

Pakis think they are being clever and a half. Tom tom about "Talks without preconditions" and if GoI DOES accept (I hope they do not) and the talks are scheduled, Pakis will announce a day or two before that that they'll meet with Hurrirats prior to the talks.

If GoI sticks to its stance of no talks if Hurrirats are involved, then Pakis will cry about eevil India not willing to talk and their proxies will go on overdrive- the same rona dhona will commence.

This is trap as clear as any.

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 28 Nov 2015 17:10

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 958542.cms
Dhobhi Ka Doggie, na ghar ka na pindi ka

I think this is a reaction to all the news of a coup being planned in pakisatan. Nawaz is being paranoid, he might get a crate of mangoes for this...

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Nov 2015 17:14

JE Menon wrote:Pakistan has approached India for talks - unconditional. Ticker on NDTV.

Nothing on the cricket yet.

^^^ Just a reiteration of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s old position that India’s Ufa formulation of NSA level talks on Terrorism is “conditional” and thus not acceptable and instead should be “unconditional” to the extent that bilateral meeting agenda is up to whatever the Islamic Republic of Pakistan wishes to raise.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Nov 2015 17:15

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan discloses that 3,157 personnel of law enforcement agencies and of 5,532 civilians were killed due to terrorism during the last five years.

Only fitting that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan who fomented State Sponsored Mohammadden Jihadi Terrorism in order to attempt to intimidate neighbours like India and Afghanistan has seen her onetime “brotherly” Jihadi “strategic assets” become Frankenstein’s monster and inflict Mohammadden Terrorism on the Islamic Republic herself. Having sown the wind of Mohammadden Terrorism long may Pakistan continue to reap the whirlwind of Mohammadden Terrorism.

Excerpt:

ISLAMABAD:
For the first time, the government has shared consolidated figures of the total loss of lives caused due to terrorism during the last five years. The statistics also include details regarding the total number of terrorists killed, sentenced to death or awaiting their death sentence. The interior ministry provided the statistics in the National Assembly during the question hour on Friday.

According to the reply, a total of 3,157 personnel of law enforcement agencies (LEA) were killed and 5,988 injured during this period. At the same time, a total of 5,532 civilians were killed and 10,195 were injuries.

Over 3,000 LEA men killed in five years

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Nov 2015 17:20

JE Menon wrote:Pakistan has approached India for talks - unconditional. Ticker on NDTV.

Nothing on the cricket yet.

A lot of burnol is being used/applied there in pakiland. something seems to be brewing and they need to do a dog and pony show with Modi/GOI.

They have activated all their overground workers like MSA, SL, kurshit, burkha butt, thapad, and all other rundi channels. basit has run his ass ragged touring the country here including mount carmel college(??). Do all these horny buggers come only to ogle the females??

has the time come to very firmly link religion with global terrorism??. Modi has been asking all the nations that he has visited that there is a dire need to clearly define terrorism.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Nov 2015 18:33

Harassment Of Indian Origin US Aid Official At Isloo Airport Earlier Reported As Bomb Hoax By Paki Media

US official returns home than undergo security check at airport

RAWALPINDI: A USAID official chose to leave Benazir Bhutto International Airport (BBIA) on Friday and return to his residence in Islamabad, rather than go through a physical security check to board his flight to Washington.
The official, identified as Ajit Joshi, was in Islamabad to train USAID personnel at the US embassy and was flying to Washington on a Qatar Airways flight. Mr Joshi had reached a final security check at BBIA when he refused to proceed, and instead returned to Islamabad.

One Paki media earlier reported this incident by a Bomb Hoax, probably with an intention to malign the Indian origin US official .
Question of Enchendee involved when dealing with Indian Origin US official sent to Pakiland ?

The check was not for specific passengers, but is a routine security check that has been conducted at the airport for the last few months, aviation division spokesperson Sher Ali said.

Probably, the "orders" to target Mr. Joshi came from above .

When Mr Joshi saw the security check, he changed his travel plans and told the concerned officials he would not be travelling on the flight. He was allowed to leave after voluntarily offloading from the flight, since there was no security concern related to him.

So, the Paki media "jumped the gun" and reported this incident as a "bomb hoax" without verifying the facts concerned

In an email, US Embassy Islamabad spokesperson Christopher Snipes said: “Ajit Joshi, a Washington-based USAID employee, travelled to Islamabad on November 17 to conduct workplace training for USAID personnel at US Embassy Islamabad.”
He said Mr Joshi went to BBIA to leave Pakistan on November 27, but then changed his travel plans and returned to his temporary residence in Islamabad.
The spokesperson did not give the reason for Mr Ajit’s decision. An airport official said: “Mr Joshi willingly refused to travel as it was a self offloading.”

On the one hand, the hungry Paki nation longs for US Dole (Aid) , and on the other hand, creates obstacles for the organization's official to conduct their due diligence; it is up to US Govt to take up this "mistreatment " with the Paki Govt .
Mr. Joshi was probably one of the "victims" in the recent diplomatic hard line approach towards Pakistan by the Modi Govt. !

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Nov 2015 18:50

^^^The rules governing Indian sports might be best discussed in the "Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry" thread. Am posting something there.

PS: please see this:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1942054

The key point is that the Delhi High Court made an order in 2010 that Political and diplomatic clearances are... required by the Indian teams before participation in the international tournaments and forums.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 19:05

I would take TSP's offer, if at all it was made, with huge doses of salt because they are trying to be too clever by half. When they say "no pre conditions", that means all issues must be on the table, and if India says only terror discussion as per Ufa agreement, they will say its a pre-condition. Once again, it will be India Vs India because that kind of a formulation is acceptable to all those worthies in Chetak's post and many more, and Indian govt must not fall in the trap.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Nov 2015 19:11

JE Menon wrote:Pakistan has approached India for talks - unconditional. Ticker on NDTV.

Nothing on the cricket yet.

Turned on a local Bengaluru channel - saw a ticker vanish off the left edge that said "..a nod to Indo-Pak cricket series"

I waited and read all the goddam tickers after that until I saw "Government unlikely to give a nod to Indo-Pak cricket series" Phew.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Nov 2015 19:16

shiv wrote: Whether the government can have a policy about cricket or not is an interesting point.

See the above posting, the Delhi High Court has ruled that "political and diplomatic clearances are required by the Indian teams before participation in the international tournaments and forums".

It also ruled that only the Union Government, not any state government, has the power to do this.

The specific constitutional basis for this can be found in the full quote on the Sports and Entertainment Industry of India thread in the Technology and Economic forum.

If St Stephen's Delhi want to play a cricket match against LUMS in Lahore, the government has no policy to prevent that. They can go and play.

Is this an international tournament or forum? If yes, GOI clearance are needed.

If BCCI happens to take the Indian cricket team to Sri Lanka and PCB happens to appear in Sri Lanka at the same time and a match takes place there - once again the government has no policy to prevent that. It is private business.

Is this an international tournament or forum? If yes, GOI clearance are needed.

etc.

PS: There is a distinction between policy and law. The law is that GOI clearance is needed as above. How the GOI determines whether or not to grant clearance is policy. The clearance requirement does not mean a policy must exist; the GOI could decide on a case-by-case basis. Of course, you could perversely call this itself to be a policy of some type. Nobody on this thread has exhibited that the GOI has a cricket policy other than this clearance on a case-by-case basis.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 28 Nov 2015 19:59

Salahuddin Chowdhury and Ali Ahsan Mujahid hangings: A case of ‘judicial murder’?

Journalist from The Hindu questioning the hangings of Pakistan supporters and genocide committing members of Jamat-e-islami in Bangladesh.
Check out the other 'international newspapers' this cretin also writes for.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 20:05

A_Gupta wrote:
PS: There is a distinction between policy and law. The law is that GOI clearance is needed as above. How the GOI determines whether or not to grant clearance is policy. The clearance requirement does not mean a policy must exist; the GOI could decide on a case-by-case basis. Of course, you could perversely call this itself to be a policy of some type. Nobody on this thread has exhibited that the GOI has a cricket policy other than this clearance on a case-by-case basis.

With all due respect learned Sir, how does this matter in terms of ground reality? The fact is that kirket resumption is now at the door of govt of India. Whether you call it policy or law, I actually like the flexibility that is built in, i.e., if TSP exhibits good behavior, then it gets rewarded with some kirket, and if not, it is left to squirm (is making TSP squirm such a bad thing?).

But I think policy Vs law is irrelevant, kirket is a lever, however significant or insignificant, that Indian govt has. Now maybe I am a tad on one extreme to claim that kirket is a huge leverage, many disagree and I respect that, however, there are others who say kirket is no leverage at all, that is extreme too. Truth is in the middle.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Nov 2015 20:13

Pakistan offers France sharing expertise on counter-terrorism

VALLETTA - Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Friday met French President Francois Hollande here and extended cooperation in counter-terrorism and intelligence sharing.
The prime minister reiterated a strong condemnation of the recent Paris terrorist attacks, in a meeting with the French leader that took place here in the Maltese capital on the sidelines of 24th Commonwealth meeting. Nawaz extended heartfelt condolences over the loss of precious lives in Paris and said that Pakistan was ready to share its experiences with France on counter-terrorism.

So, this will be the second or the third time that France will have to decline Bhooka Nanga Pakistan's unasked for help

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Nov 2015 20:20

CRamS wrote: With all due respect learned Sir, how does this matter in terms of ground reality? ...But I think policy Vs law is irrelevant

Does reality matter or not matter? If reality matters, the distinction between policy and law is important and relevant. To be precise:

1. There is law based on the Constitution, upheld by the Courts, that gives the Union Government the power to clear or forbid the participation of the Indian team in any sport in an international setting.

2. There is no GOI policy on cricket with Pakistan (that anyone here has shown to exist, at least).

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 20:26

A_GuptaJi, you and I are not preparing for a constitution law exam, what I am talking about is whether govt of India has a say or no in kirket resumption, and if kirket is a leverage. The answer to both is Yes.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Nov 2015 20:27

Guys, this guy Farooq Abdullah is making too many noises nowadays. He is obsessed with this piss talks with TSP as the "only way out"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 959565.cms

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Nov 2015 20:46

Pakhtun Leaders Convince Ghani To Meet Nawaz

KABUL - Pakistani Pakhtun leaders’ visit to Kabul is aimed at persuading Afghan President Ashraf Ghani to accept Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s invitation for a meeting, an official revealed on Saturday.
Some months back, relations between Kabul and Islamabad started deteriorating and face-to-face peace talks between the Ghani administration and Taliban were suspended after a series of suicide attacks in Kabul. Contacts between the neighbouring countries also came to an end.
The Heart-of-Asia is scheduled to be held in Islamabad next week. If the important event is not attended by Afghanistan, Pakistan’s reputation could be battered.

So, Ganja has been tasked by the Bad Sharif to undo the dirty work undertaken by the Deep State. And true to form, he outsourced this to the Paki Pakhtun leaders, who have now apparently bailed him out

The official said that Prime Minister Nawaz was trying to meet Afghan president during an upcoming international conference in Paris.
The 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference is scheduled to be held in Paris from November 30 to December 11. The moot will be attended by leaders from several countries around the world including Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The Pakhtun Leaders visiting Kabul including Awami National Party (ANP) President Asfandyar Wali Khan, ANP central leader Afrasiab Khattak and some other people. They met Afghan president, his predecessor Hamid Karzai and some other officials and part
They met Prime Minister Nawaz before they arrived in Kabul.

Nawaz is believed to have urged British Prime Minister David Cameron to convince Afghan President Ghani to meet him, but the Afghan leader had rejected the suggestion. Consequently, Pakistan has sent the Pakhtun leaders to Kabul to reconcile Ghani.

So, the Bad Sharif personally took it upon himself to assure Massa that all is well on the Afghan front, while Ganja was tasked with the unpleasant task of convincing Ghani and the Afghan leadership of Paki sincerity; it remains to be seen whether Ganja is really in the decision making loop and/or competent to the task or just being" used " once again by the real powers of Pakiland ! It is high time that he do some "real" work to earn his PM salary !

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Nov 2015 20:58

A_Gupta wrote: See the above posting, the Delhi High Court has ruled that "political and diplomatic clearances are required by the Indian teams before participation in the international tournaments and forums".

Thanks for the info.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 28 Nov 2015 21:26

Peregrine wrote:Pakistan ready for talks with India without preconditions: Sharif

VALLETTA: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has said for sustainable peace, Pakistan is ready for dialogue with India without preconditions, Geo News reported.

He also said Pakistan intends to maintain friendly relations with all its neighbours, including India and Afghanistan.

Sharif stated this when he met British Premier David Cameron on the sidelines of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in the Maltese capital on Friday.

Both also agreed to continue close collaboration in diverse fields, particularly in trade, investment and security.

WLL! WELL!! WELL!!! So finally Nawaz does "Goothna Tekna" i.e. kneeling on the knees to Modi Ji's "Takni Hai To Take Nahin To Doosri Dookan Dekh" Policy! MODI JI'S INDIA WINS!!!

Cheers

Not really. "No preconditions " is paki cleverness-speak for "don't tell us to stop terrorism first."

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Nov 2015 21:27

CRamS wrote:A_GuptaJi, you and I are not preparing for a constitution law exam, what I am talking about is whether govt of India has a say or no in kirket resumption, and if kirket is a leverage. The answer to both is Yes.

It was settled four pages ago on this thread that the GOI has a say; it however does not have a policy. Yet we keep going on round and round.

Is cricket a leverage? You said, it is a matter of opinion.

The fact is that the jihadi nexus in Pakistan is not bound by whatever civilians - public or elite - in Pakistan want to do with cricket. In the first place, it is the jihadis that made it impossible to play cricket in Pakistan. That is not an opinion, it is facts, plain and simple.

Well, the only answer is, as some one pointed weeks ago, if I don't like it, ignore it; so that is what I'm doing henceforth.