Indian Military Aviation

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 26 Jul 2011 16:57

Response to strike from Pak will be very heavy: IAF chief
Times of India

"Our nuclear policy is of no first use. It also talks about a very heavy response in case of a nuclear attack. It talks about a retaliatory and hard response, our policy talks about that," Naik, who demits office this Sunday, told a press conference, PTI reported.

Naik was responding to a query on the new Pakistani tactical nuclear missile 'Nasr' which is touted to be a 'game-changer' in future warfare. He did not agree that the new missile will be a 'game-changer'.

"Tactical or strategic, it is a nuclear weapon. So, obviously our response would be absolutely violent as per our existing policy. I don't think it is a game-changer," he added.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 26 Jul 2011 17:58

Move afoot to upgrade advanced landing grounds

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marhsal P.V. Naik on Tuesday said the Indian Air Force would soon begin work to upgrade eight advanced landing grounds (ALG) in the north-eastern region while the frontline Sukhoi-30 MKI are already based there. ``We are in the process of upgrading eight ALGs and contract for it would be signed next month and the work should be complete in three years,’’ Air Chief Marshal Naik said at a press conference. He is retiring on July 31.

The move is part of the plan to shore up its defence along the Sino-Indian border and the IAF embarked on the modernisation of ALGs at Pasighat, Along, Menchuka and airfields at Chabua, Mohanbar, Jorhat, Hashimara, Tezpur. Earlier, the IAF activated three ALGs including Daulat Beg Oldie and Nyoma that would allow landing of transport aircraft. The plan envisages faster movement of men and machines to these distant areas closer to the Sino-Indian border.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Jul 2011 18:49

"Our nuclear policy is of no first use. It also talks about a very heavy response in case of a nuclear attack. It talks about a retaliatory and hard response, our policy talks about that," Naik, who demits office this Sunday, told a press conference, PTI reported.

Naik was responding to a query on the new Pakistani tactical nuclear missile 'Nasr' which is touted to be a 'game-changer' in future warfare. He did not agree that the new missile will be a 'game-changer'.

"Tactical or strategic, it is a nuclear weapon. So, obviously our response would be absolutely violent as per our existing policy. I don't think it is a game-changer," he added.

Just love it......

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Jul 2011 20:16

Nuclear weapons are just political tool and is only of deterrent value , if either India or Pakistan uses Nuclear weapons it will be catastrophic for both nations and its people irrespective of the size of arsenal that each size possess.

So military on both sides should tone down rhetoric and chest thumping on such matters.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Jul 2011 20:30

And that detterent is of no value if you adversary is not convinced that in case of any nuclear brinkmanship, the response will be catastrophic and result in total annihilation. You don't want him to attack first and then retaliate to show him your resolve.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Jul 2011 21:42

Every body and their aunty knows that nuclear retaliation will result in total annihilation and serves only deterrent value , both countries are aware of each other nuclear capability,potential and as such need no demonstration , Chest thumping and rhetoric by military wala will not help either.

They should let some sane political boss speak on such issue atleast with India that is possible and I am certain there are few sane people on the other side even though they are khaki fellas and understand what Nuclear weapons means and tone down decibels.

manum · Post by **manum** » 26 Jul 2011 21:56

I think exactly opposite in this regard of saying what needs to be said...No Indian politician can have enough balls to say what Naik has said, there will be violent retaliation, and this is where these defence chiefs come in, they don't have a political baggage and they don't have to hold their tongue when one is talking about possible build up to attack in Indian cities with Nuclear capability...

It should be made clear then and there, that dare you try...services chiefs don't have to be politically correct when they are responding on reports on an inferior enemy, with whom we can go war with any day...

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 27 Jul 2011 00:15

the reason we are seeing these statements from Military brass is b/c the political class is sleeping peacefully. it is the job of the "strategy" types to occasionally come out and give some subtle warnings with special language and meaning. when the babu/politician class neglects that duty, it falls on military wallahs to voice the capabilities and intents.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 27 Jul 2011 00:24

And see the timing. Isn't some one from puke land already in Delhi for talks ? Some bytes that folks didn't want to officially communicate have been added as foot note.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Jul 2011 07:46

rohitvats wrote:
***PLease check this travelogue to get an idea about Spangmik-Phobrang-Marisim with some great shots:
[url]La.http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/travelo ... t24293-29/[/url]

Wow. Doubled, tripled my resolve to go there. OT minor nitpik--the guy refers to the mountains opposite Turtuk as being "in Pakistan". This apparent lack of knowledge, pride or anger coming from an educated young man is really painful. Unfortunately very common nowadays.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Jul 2011 11:18

Victor, you can hardly expect a layman to understand the flow of geography or alignment of LOC in these area....the fellow could simple be reiterating what was told to him by someone, something like, "Pakistan us pahaad ke peeche hai/Pakistan wahan hai"....so, let us not read too mcuh into it.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 27 Jul 2011 12:13

Has anyone thought ACMs statements may have been made with the political leadership on board? Our record has been such statements always come from the services, not the political leadership - for all we know there may be a tactic understanding between the two on this subject.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 27 Jul 2011 13:12

rohit...well said. I was in gulmarg and the guide told me similar BS..then a soldier came along and gave me more exact info... the guide was like as u said ;saheb..wo jo pahad hai wo pakistan hai !!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Jul 2011 13:44

The comments of the ACM mearly restated the Indian Nuke doctrine and what it means. No need to read between the lines.

The Pakis are thinking that there is space between a tactial nuke usage and stratagic nuke exchange. The comments by the ACM which repeat the Indian Nuke Doctrine remove the notion that such a space exists.

WRT, the comments being made by the ACM and the polititions being silent on the matter. The IAF is the fighting arm of the Indian govt. When it speaks to any one on the matter of doctirine. It will always reflect the position of the Indian govt and with the approval of the Indian govt.

saje · Post by **saje** » 27 Jul 2011 15:58

Pratyush wrote:The Pakis are thinking that there is space between a tactial nuke usage and stratagic nuke exchange. The comments by the ACM which repeat the Indian Nuke Doctrine remove the notion that such a space exists.

Beautifully put. I wish there was a 'thanks' facility on BRF threads as well. That being said, now that ACM naik has made this comment, we (our defence & political leaders) need to keep on harping the same line at other forums as well -- something to the effect that if the pakis throw a nuke bum at even a cow grazing on the Indian side...

.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 27 Jul 2011 17:22

Victor wrote:Wow. Doubled, tripled my resolve to go there. OT minor nitpik--the guy refers to the mountains opposite Turtuk as being "in Pakistan". This apparent lack of knowledge, pride or anger coming from an educated young man is really painful. Unfortunately very common nowadays.

Victor, Rohit is right. Apparently this is common understanding there. Just came back this monday from Laddakh. My taxi driver gave the same version and the intresting part is that he is native of Turtuk. According to him (and I really never confirmed this on any map untill I hit upon your statement) beyond Turtuk it's Pakistan.

Cheers....

manum · Post by **manum** » 27 Jul 2011 17:28

what about them using the bum on Indian forces in there own land? If we apply China like tactics of grabing a piece and holding onto it to meet our demands?

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Jul 2011 18:02

rohitvats wrote:Victor, you can hardly expect a layman to understand the flow of geography or alignment of LOC in these area....

That's exactly my point. He is NOT a layman as is evident from the adept reading of maps and making last minute detours from Manali to Leh via Srinagar! From Turtuk, pakistan is further away than his hometown Delhi but he has been dumbed down to call PoK 'pakistan'. This should never be accepted by those of us who care and it should be pointed out at every opportunity to do our little bit. It is not OK to shrug it off because it IS India and Indians have spilled blood there. In Arunachal, our local driver said "that is China" pointing north and I asked him firmly to say "Tibet" instead at which he became very glad, saying that is what everyone thinks locally but tourists call it "china" so they listen. Anyway, way OT rant. Sorry.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Jul 2011 18:04

>>From Turtuk, pakistan is further away than his hometown Delhi but he has been dumbed down to call PoK 'pakistan'. This should never be accepted by those of us who care and it should be pointed out at every opportunity to do our little bit.

Valid point.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 27 Jul 2011 18:08

Manumullah,
If you attack a country's armed forces, in any part of the world, its like attacking the country. So we can retaliate how our policies dictate we can attack in the given situation, which, going by our beloved ACM's words, is going to be very violent..
Gurulog correct me if i am wrong.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Jul 2011 18:17

Have you all seen(visual) the ACM interview? If you have seen there is no need to get our nerves worked up. Pls see the video clip to grasp what I'm saying. As the gentleman mentioned above, he just restated the Nuclear doctrine.

For few secs he struggled for exact words. Since he couldn't get the correct word he tried various adjectives. Exact word that suppose to be used is "Massive".

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Jul 2011 18:30

P Chitkara wrote:Has anyone thought ACMs statements may have been made with the political leadership on board? Our record has been such statements always come from the services, not the political leadership - for all we know there may be a tactic understanding between the two on this subject.

The gentleman in question is retiring from service in a very short while.

Consider this a part of his swan song, if you will.

He said what clearly needed to be said for a very long time now.

That this extended overture to the swansong occurred so close to the paki FM visit is fortutious, to say the least.

The pakis well understand crude language. That there have been no Indian political contradictions to this policy statement is by itself a telling blow. Further, for the first time in the longest period, the GOI has strongly and vocally disapproved publicly, the meeting of the hurriyat "leaders" by the paki gang.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 27 Jul 2011 18:32

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will induct more Sukhoi Su-30 combat jets, as also more radars in the northeast

"Two more squadrons of Sukhois will be inducted by 2015 in the region," Air Marshal K.K. Nohwar, who currently heads the Shillong-based Eastern Air Command and will August 1 take over as the IAF vice chief, told reporters at his farewell press conference.

"As a replacement of the MiG-21s, we will induct more aircraft of different types, whether light or medium jets. I am sure the Eastern Air Command would get these aircraft in the near future," he said. "The Eastern Air Command would also get a share of Mi-17B-5 helicopters (the IAF is purchasing)," he said.

"We are upgrading our assets in the region. After all, our old assets need to be replaced," he said. Noting that the process of upgrading six Advanced Landing Grounds (ALGs) in Arunachal Pradesh is on, Nohwar said: "The upgradation is primarily aimed at improving the air connectivity in (land locked) Arunachal Pradesh to ease the problem of transportation of people and goods. The ALGs will also be used for operational purposes." The ALGs are at Tuting, Mechuka, Along, Passighat, Vijaynagar and Ziro along the Chinese border.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 27 Jul 2011 21:19

IAF chief's ‘very heavy response to Pakistan’ remark irks Antony

...
Sources said the minister was "not amused" over the remarks made by the IAF chief, who is retiring on July 31, at a time when the two countries are holding foreign minister -level talks. In the backdrop of this development, Naik met the defence minister in his South Block office today.

The defence minister had himself refused to answer queries yesterday related to Pakistan's role in context of the Kargil war saying that he did not want to "vitiate the atmosphere" at such a time.
...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2011 22:36

ah, the mythical sources. and why should I believe a rag that publishes aman ki ayesha garbage ?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 28 Jul 2011 04:17

IAF to take part in Red Flag exercises in 2013

IAF to match top guns in Nevada
Rajat Pandit, TNN | Jul 28, 2011, 02.57AM IST

Read More:US Air Force|IAF To Match Top Guns In Nevada|IAF

NEW DELHI: IAF may have ejected US fighters from its $10.4-billion project to acquire 126 jets, but is eager for its fighter pilots to match their combat skills with American top guns.

The air force has taken the initiative to take part in the "mother" of all air combat exercises, the Red Flag, held at Nellis US Air Force base in Nevada.

"We will participate in Red Flag in 2013. Since such exercises are very expensive, we have decided to undertake them only once in five years", says IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik. The only time IAF has participated in Red Flag was in 2008, with eight frontline Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, two IL-78 mid-air refuellers, an IL-76 heavy-lift aircraft, 91 officers and 156 other ranks.

The bill for the complex aerial combat manoeuvres, touted to be the closest one can get to real war, had come to over Rs 100 crore three years ago.

"The Americans were surprised by our pilots, who flew as many as 356 sorties during Red Flag, and were full of praise for them. The exercise established IAF's capability to project its air power by deploying a trans-continental task force and sustaining prolonged operations there," said another officer. "The US had wanted Indian participation in Red Flag, which trains pilots 'to survive in war and win' in an advanced network-centric environment, to become a regular feature. We, however, have financial constraints," he added.

But the fact remains that the stunning flurry of Indo-US military exercises, with well over 60 such joint war games being held over the last decade to build "interoperability", has been the most visible symbol of the upward trajectory in strategic ties between the two countries.

Great decision. Once in 5 years is perfect.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 28 Jul 2011 05:12

Nikhil T wrote:IAF to take part in Red Flag exercises in 2013
IAF to match top guns in Nevada
Rajat Pandit, TNN | Jul 28, 2011, 02.57AM IST

Read More:US Air Force|IAF To Match Top Guns In Nevada|IAF

NEW DELHI: IAF may have ejected US fighters from its $10.4-billion project to acquire 126 jets, but is eager for its fighter pilots to match their combat skills with American top guns.

The air force has taken the initiative to take part in the "mother" of all air combat exercises, the Red Flag, held at Nellis US Air Force base in Nevada.

"We will participate in Red Flag in 2013. Since such exercises are very expensive, we have decided to undertake them only once in five years", says IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik. The only time IAF has participated in Red Flag was in 2008, with eight frontline Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, two IL-78 mid-air refuellers, an IL-76 heavy-lift aircraft, 91 officers and 156 other ranks.

The bill for the complex aerial combat manoeuvres, touted to be the closest one can get to real war, had come to over Rs 100 crore three years ago.

"The Americans were surprised by our pilots, who flew as many as 356 sorties during Red Flag, and were full of praise for them. The exercise established IAF's capability to project its air power by deploying a trans-continental task force and sustaining prolonged operations there," said another officer. "The US had wanted Indian participation in Red Flag, which trains pilots 'to survive in war and win' in an advanced network-centric environment, to become a regular feature. We, however, have financial constraints," he added.

But the fact remains that the stunning flurry of Indo-US military exercises, with well over 60 such joint war games being held over the last decade to build "interoperability", has been the most visible symbol of the upward trajectory in strategic ties between the two countries.
Great decision. Once in 5 years is perfect.

Disagree. Red flag would have been great to learn new tactics and training tecniques.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Jul 2011 05:48

100crores in 2008!!!

IMO, the cost of fuel and transportation of men and material would have formed one component of the cost. What could have been other components? Would USAF have charged for basing the a/c and men - like how private airlines are by the airports? And is it possible that one/country needs to pay fees to US DOD/ USAF to participate - to cover the cost aspect of hosting a nation and its personnel and machines? Finally, given the sorties flown, the fuel consumed could have been a cost factor?

Any and all informed comments are welcome.

OK. Rant aside - it only goes on to show the amount Khan spents on keeping the blade of its sword razor sharp!!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2011 06:20

imo every alternate year would have been ideal balance to keep track of whats cooking in the big tent.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Jul 2011 06:54

ideally, we would create our own red flag(s) and let the whole IAF community have a taste of realistic exercise.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2011 07:50

yes ofcourse thats best option but the kind of flying area seen over nevada might be feasible only in one of two places - rajasthan and nicobar. over-the-sea ranges in north sea are known to be used by the baltic nations and UK but might not be suitable from a ground instrumentation and CSAR safety perspective. if we do it in rajasthan then the pakis get a birds eye view.
perhaps enhancing the Tezpur base and Kalaikunda base to run this role is the onlee way out, or some base in north karnataka?

the red flag imax film has footage of lines of target vehicles being smacked by F-15Es and fake SAMs that whoosh out of ground based boxes and bunches of simulated radar emitters .... takes plenty of space and money to build such infra.

but we need to do it whatever the cost- the entire IAF has to benefit not just a few lucky ones.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 28 Jul 2011 08:34

They track missile launches at Balasore using ship based instrumentation, in that respect Car Nicobar is viable, the scenarios get interesting when aircraft carriers are involved

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Jul 2011 08:41

rajasthan has a problem being too close to border. I suspect the bases coming up in southern India (sulur tambaram) and eastern India (kalaikunda, panagarh etc), will be the major exercise areas in the future, in addition to the annual bi-force and tri-force exercises in western India.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 28 Jul 2011 09:04

tri-base set up in eastern India is the only option for setting up a red flag in India.

the IAF has to move forward in areas like Electronic attack and digital CAS. new instrumentation ranges are required.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Jul 2011 09:06

maharajpur AFS, gwalior is IAF's primary EW range.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2011 09:15

the big new drdo facility coming up in chitradurga karnataka for testing EW systems could likely be used.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/08/09/stories ... 861100.htm

Test range in Chitradurga coming up

T.S. Subramanian

DRDO says new test range will cover 4,000 acres

CHENNAI: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is building a new test range in Chitradurga district in Karnataka for its aeronautics missions for flight-testing sophisticated unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), air-to-ground weapons, huge parachutes, Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, aerostats and also for testing electronic warfare systems.

The DRDO already has an Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur-on-sea, near Balasore, Orissa, from where different missiles are flight-tested. Wheeler Island, off the Orissa coast, comes under this ITR and it is from here that Agni series of missiles are flight-tested.

Prahlada, Chief Controller, Research and Development (Aeronautics and Services Interaction), DRDO, said the new test range in Chitradurga district would cover 4,000 acres. The DRDO had already acquired the land for the range. The range will include a runway.

“We are creating a new range, where the UAVs, small air-to-ground weapons, parachutes and aerostats will be tested. It will be a big range and it will take three years to completely equip the range. It will be an important facility coming up in India,” he said.

Mr. Prahlada said the DRDO was keen that the railways should extend a railway track to the new test facility. The Karnataka government was fully cooperating with the DRDO for establishing this test range and “we are working together,” he said. The Karnataka government had a master-plan to establish a high-technology knowledge park in Chitradurga district, Mr. Prahalada added.

W. Selvamurthy, Chief Controller, R and D (Life Sciences), DRDO also praised the Karnataka government's “full support” to the project. “We have commenced the work in building the test range. It will be a modern facility for testing the UAV Nishant. You need a complete runway for testing the UAVs,” he said.

Dr. Selvamurthy said the DRDO would undertake a new project called Rustom on medium altitude, long endurance UAVs. This project had been approved by the Union Cabinet Committee on Security. “All this will be tested in Chitradurga,” he added.

venku_Raj · Post by **venku_Raj** » 28 Jul 2011 09:18

Intruder aircraft will be shot down: IAF

No airspace violation in eastern India: IAF

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 28 Jul 2011 09:48

rohitvats wrote:100crores in 2008!!!

IMO, the cost of fuel and transportation of men and material would have formed one component of the cost. What could have been other components? Would USAF have charged for basing the a/c and men - like how private airlines are by the airports? And is it possible that one/country needs to pay fees to US DOD/ USAF to participate - to cover the cost aspect of hosting a nation and its personnel and machines? Finally, given the sorties flown, the fuel consumed could have been a cost factor?

Any and all informed comments are welcome.

OK. Rant aside - it only goes on to show the amount Khan spents on keeping the blade of its sword razor sharp!!!

Its not all that much. Rs 100 crore is a little over $20 million. The five weeks of deployment (incl. wk up phase at Mtn Home) included intensive flying by 8 Su-30MKIs and 2 IL-78MKIs as well as the IL-76 (Garuds were also involved IIRC). Just the MKIs involved flew 140 sorties. Also the IAF's air and ground crew was sizeable at 250 officers and men. The experience gained though was invaluable, given that its the largest and most sophisticated exercise of its kind in the world. All in all, pretty decent value for $20 million.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 28 Jul 2011 10:40

The 'violent' part in the ACM's comment sent a wave of pleasure down my spine. Ummmmm.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jul 2011 10:41

Viv S wrote: Its not all that much. Rs 100 crore is a little over $20 million.

The value of 100 crores in India is more than the value of $20 million in the US. More people can be employed for a longer period of time in India for the same money.