India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Jul 2012 16:49

Redneck Americans and their ignorance combined with their arrogance !

U.S. Rappahannock Does the Right Thing

On July 16 in the Persian Gulf, a small boat rapidly approached the USS Rappahannock, a refueling ship with the US Fifth Fleet. The boat ignored repeated warnings to stay away, including warning shots. When it continued a swift, deliberate approach, the security team aboard the Rappahannock opened fire with a .50 caliber machinegun, killing one member of the approaching boat’s crew and wounding two others.

No mention of the fact that fisherman are disputing that there were warnings

The menacing boat, meanwhile, was a fishing vessel with an Indian crew and registered to a company in the United Arab Emirates.

Is it the ship which is menacing or the victim fisherman boat which was trying to move away from the ship ?

This is all sound policy and should be continued, or even beefed up, whatever the results of the investigation.

Nothing expected from rednecks but GOI should not let the americans get away easily with their lies. they should complete the joint investigation with UAE and publish the findings and challenge the americans openly either to accept findings and compensate the victims or prove the findings wrong with evidence.

habal · Post by **habal** » 24 Jul 2012 17:00

my personal opinion is that those sailors and crew in US Navy ships are drug addicts and remain drugged even during day time as part of a preparation to commit inhuman acts at any given time at moment's notice. It may be they are given morphine, cocaine, heroine or even bath salts so as allow them to live in suspended reality, and commit any number of crimes without feeling any remorse. This is part of their standard gulf and mideast protocol. As part of preparation for any conflict. So we are not dealing with a professional force, i.e. US Navy in gulf, but a rabid, drugged and maniacal force that has no respect of law or protocol at any point of time of its stationing period in the region.

they start to hear things, see things even when there is nothing of that sort. Annual rampage by gunmen is also part of this same phenomenon but on civilian side. Maybe it is orchestrated by someone else but net result is same.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 18:26

Guys, enough has been said on this, at least by myself and let me make this the last post on this matter..

The issue is not whether USN is guilty. They sure are. Question is, it is something deliberate i.e., they went out to kill someone in cold blood or is it they panicked or came to extreme and erroneous conclusion about the threat posed by the small boat and made a mistake. If you analyse dispassionately, I think it will be the later. To repeat, they did not know or would not have known the nationality of the occupants. In fact, if the dead had been a Paki, this very forum, including myself would have rejoiced over the killing of a terrorist.

I get a bit worried when I see a lynch mob sort of attitude here. Mind you it is not going to get us anywhere, but let us look again.

Let us take a step back.

We are surrounded by hostile powers. One is a nation of fanatic barbarian terrorist animals. Another is its leading arms supplier, + it supplied nooks to barbaric animals knowing they will misuse it against civilised societies. Both have invaded us, fought with us. Both still harbour hostile attitudes and show it practically EVERYDAY in their actions. Both have mass murderers, rapist goons, fake intellectuals and other puppets batting for them in the name of secularism and socialism.

West, however full of racist, murderous lawless thugs that you make them out to be, have neither invaded us nor do they pose an immediate threat. Yes, they have encouraged TSP, played along when PRC screwed us and so on, undeniable. But whose guilt is more or less?

On top of that you have to consider the fact that one is a open society where millions of Indians have prospered, glass ceiling or not, and rose to enormous heights. Perhaps a few of them are members in this forum.

That is why I say, let us look at it in perspective and keep the bigger picture in mind. Otherwise, by joining the likes of MKB, we end up, unwittingly, benefiting those that would not only kill us by the thousands, but not even bother to acknowledge it, let alone apologise for it. Plus they will recruit yellows here that will say that we are the ones guilty.

Amen.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 24 Jul 2012 18:47

Those that kill us by throusands , the barbarians , where do they get their strength from. If US was really about supporting democracy , the pakis would have been mince meat now. There is no Mob mentality here. I think we should dispassionately observe here what US actually stands for.
Yes it might be a mistake and the crew of the ship or the person who did it has to face the law. They ran away. We benefitted by US does not mean it is charity or worse it makes us like pakis. The rentier state gets moolah from US and hence allows US to bombard its territory with drones. I think the pakis have looked at the perspective and taken the bigger picture in mind. So we should become like pakis. Is it?
Should the GOI not even protest at least to show we are angry. Heck even the pakis were able to get a so called apology.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 18:51

Of course, GOI should protest, if I am not wrong, they expressed regret the same day. We can argue over semantics, but the fact that it came quick and fast (when it took months for Paki's to get that for 24 killed) should tell us something.

habal · Post by **habal** » 24 Jul 2012 19:20

>West, however full of racist, murderous lawless thugs that you make them out to be, have neither invaded us nor do they pose an immediate threat.

You forgot the British.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 24 Jul 2012 19:27

Suppiah wrote:Of course, GOI should protest, if I am not wrong, they expressed regret the same day. We can argue over semantics, but the fact that it came quick and fast (when it took months for Paki's to get that for 24 killed) should tell us something.

Regret == protest.So be it.
Quick and fast what?
Well I do not want to continue this. My last post on this. But just imagine what would have happened if a IN navy killed a US civilian.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 24 Jul 2012 20:13

rkirankr wrote: Regret == protest.So be it.
Quick and fast what?
Well I do not want to continue this. My last post on this. But just imagine what would have happened if a IN navy killed a US civilian.

That's not hard to imagine. Their news media would have had a field day demonizing the IN. They would also have found some juicy way to link the incident to India's caste system and overall male chauvinistic attitude and oppression of minorities. The navy personnel would have been portrayed as upper crust Hindus who were only displaying their usual callous attitude towards the working classes. In addition, the dhimmi Indian media too would have had a field day lamenting the callous attitude of the casteist Hindu IN personnel.

If the Indian media were to behave the way the American media routinely does, the Indian media would by now have linked the firing incident to the ill-treatment of blacks and native Americans in the USA and the ills of their prison system.

My suggestion would be to point this out to any Americans who ask for your opinion of the incident. Tell them in a dispassionate voice, without rancor - just as a matter of fact - that if the situation had been reversed, CNN and BBC would have done exactly this - brought in casteism and minority oppression and cows and buffaloes on Indian streets. They would also have clamored for the IN personnel to be brought to trial in the US. Did somebody say lynch-mob?

Also let any curious Americans know in no uncertain terms, the fact that their media *DID NOT* present the Indian and the Arab side of the story. Their media is biased - that's the inescapable conclusion. Point them to Indian and other news outlets, which clearly state the fisherman's view, and the Dubai police chief's view, that the US ship *DID NOT* deploy any warning measures at all. This is a sad incident, which will never be resolved in a just manner. The least we can do is to extract some mileage out of it.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Jul 2012 20:27

Suppiah wrote:Someone like Moothrakumar with a certain agenda may shout about it thrice a day for the next 2 years, but we cannot let our thoughts be guided by his likes.

Suppiah wrote:Good...that brings us back to the very first post ...about Moothrakumar jumping about thrice a day. Let us see how much they jump when similar things are done by their patron saints.

^^

sudarshan wrote:This is a sad incident, which will never be resolved in a just manner. The least we can do is to extract some mileage out of it.

This is exactly what the so called "Moothrakumar" is doing in our english media - for which, he has my respect.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Jul 2012 20:31

Suppiah wrote:Abhisek, dont let blind hatred or bias guide you. As a navy they are on edge, small boats are always a danger as USS Cole and LTTE repeatedly showed. Like I said, it has happened with our own Navy, it can happen again..

US security forces--police and military--are allowed to kill people based on a subjective perception of threat which gives them unlimited leeway not found anywhere else in the world. If Indian security people had such leeway, there would be no kashmir problem and pakis won't be wagging their tail.

India has limited means at its disposal in this case and an even more limited will to use them for the sake of a poor TN SDRE fisherman.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Jul 2012 20:40

Interesting that the term "Moothrakumar" was first coined here in peeareff in a post displaying kujli on behalf of US for something like this.

Rangudu wrote:As expected, B.K.Moothrakumar sees a glorious victory for TSPA and Kiyanahi in this US non-apology

Some of Shiv ji's pisko analysis on TSPA thread on US-PAK could be helpful here.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 20:54

KLNMurthy wrote: US security forces--police and military--are allowed to kill people based on a subjective perception of threat which gives them unlimited leeway not found anywhere else in the world. If Indian security people had such leeway, there would be no kashmir problem and pakis won't be wagging their tail.

Murthy-garu, I really doubt this. If our army vessel/camp were approached in a suspicious way, this is exactly what we would have done. In fact, why 'would', we DID this. Killing more than a dozen poor Thai fishermen. Of course, Thailand protested. But we did not send our jawans to Bangkok for trial.

These are almost war times in ME.

BTW, just out of curiosity, may I ask our jingo friends venting their anger against Unkil here, what exactly GOI should have done that would make them happy?

Declare war on US?
Send our Navy after the USN vessel and bring them home to Chennai for trial by force?
Cut off diplomatic ties like Turkey did with Israel over Navi Marmara incident?
Recall ambassador? Send their ambassador back?
Ban import of all US goods and cancel all defense deals, like Turkey, again, did?
Strongly protest? Are we just talking semantics here? What words to use?

On a personal level, what should we mujahids do? Stop working for US companies? Surrender our green cards and come back home? Refuse to take calls from US in call centers?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Jul 2012 20:57

>> On a personal level, what should we mujahids do?

At least, we could start by not offering lame excuses for Americans.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2012 21:02

Suppiah wrote: well recorded cases of BOTH sides deliberately killing civilians.

This is exactly the line of argument used by Pakistan to justify its behavior. It is amazing how humans all end up using the same types of justification - of "accepting blame" but saying "we are all like that"

Since you have shifted the goal post from the US navy killing an Indian to the Indian navy killing (Or Indian armed forces) killing innocent people. why don't you now go the whole hog and shift the entire discussion on to the mistakes made by Indians. I am interested in seeing a list of the cases where India has done what the US has done, so I know the next time the US does it, I can say like you do "India does it too".

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 21:05

Doc-ji that was just to highlight the tense nature of the job and resultant error in judgement, I am not saying USN is right all I am saying is let us not throw baby out with bath water..or words to the effect..hope it is clear. Also be aware of the agendas of people trying to promote hostility - there can be only one (or two) beneficiaries of that.

I have not seen a single productive statement here on what GOI can do and should do. Perhaps we can turn the discussion towards that?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2012 21:08

Suppiah wrote: I have not seen a single productive statement here on what GOI can do and should do. Perhaps we can turn the discussion towards that?

The GoI can't actually bring the dead man back to life. So the best that can be done is to demand that the US does not do it again and ask for a copy of the investigation report. Perhaps the US will then respond and say as you did "We all do that at times of stress". But why are YOU making that excuse on behalf of the US? What's in it for you? You don't know the result of any investigation do you? Why make the excuses?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 21:10

Boss, isnt that what GOI has done already? Am I mistaken? Are people waiting for investigation report to complete before talking of 'criminals' etc?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2012 21:12

Suppiah wrote:Am I mistaken?

Only in choosing to remind everyone that US sailors are under stress and may shoot innocent people in the way you and I might do under stress. Question is would you accept that excuse from Pakistani Rangers who shoot an Indian soldier dead at the LOC?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 21:15

shiv wrote:
Suppiah wrote:Am I mistaken?
Only in choosing to remind everyone that US sailors are under stress and may shoot innocent people in the way you and I might do under stress. Question is would you accept that excuse from Pakistani Rangers who shoot an Indian soldier dead at the LOC?

It is good you mention this point...brings me to the same point I have been trying to stress..

Of course not..because TSP is a enemy state.

Unkil, for all his warts, treachery, support of TSP, silence against PRC , is frankly not. Even if he is , he is way down in the list. After all, we cannot take on TSP and PRC and ME barbarias AND unkil+entire west and so on...of the lot, Unkil is somewhat of a friend, even if temporarily.

So...to repeat for nth time, let us keep that in perspective. Considering the gravity of the 'offense' GOI reaction seems ok. Again, not picking semantic holes...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Jul 2012 21:19

>> Unkil, for all his warts, treachery, support of TSP, silence against PRC , is frankly not.

It might not be an enemy state for people who have the "green cards". For the family members of those who are killed by Paki terrorists (encouraged by US arms/money), it is kinda difficult to see the friendliness of Americans.

It would be great if we (and specifically, you) don't conflate our personal interests (i.e., "green cards") with the interests of all Indians.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2012 21:22

Suppiah wrote:
shiv wrote: Only in choosing to remind everyone that US sailors are under stress and may shoot innocent people in the way you and I might do under stress. Question is would you accept that excuse from Pakistani Rangers who shoot an Indian soldier dead at the LOC?
It is good you mention this point...brings me to the same point I have been trying to stress..

Of course not..because TSP is a enemy state.

Unkil, for all his warts, treachery, support of TSP, silence against PRC , is frankly not.

Suppiah, you are entitled to your views as I am to mine. You are suggesting that we accept fishermen being killed by the US navy because the US is not an enemy? I strongly disagree and want to point out again that the US may not be an enemy but is hardly a friend in the way it funds and arms the Pakistan army. From an Indian viewpoint you are talking rubbish although you are probably putting the US viewpoint forward or some kind of "Indo-US bhaibhai" viewpoint. I would call your viewpoint the words of a US apologist. Thanks for being up front about how you see international relations. It is important that we understand each other.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 21:27

Doc, thanks. Call it whatever name, I am for cooperating with Unkil in dealing with the immediate strategic threats we face ie., TSP terrorism, ME fanaticism and PRC perfidy.

As to this incident, my final words are, it is in all likelyhood an error of judgement, GOI reaction is adequate, USN too has expressed regret and ordered 'transparent' probe, whatever that means. Here is another link..

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/us-as ... ing-246704

I really don't see what more can be done..My original rant was not against us mujahids venting off steam against Unkil but was against MKB types turning that into a pro-Beijing stunt, a concern that remains even now.

I know I said this before, but could not resist a juicy argument, being the Indian I am...so AMEN again..

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 24 Jul 2012 21:41

@Suppiah
Both the US and china have been using proxy warfare to keep india engaged. How exactly do you rate those two below pakistan?

Pakistan has a capacity to sustain a low intensity warfare with india.
China and US however can inflict greater costs on india if the traditional regional irritant were to somehow disappear. Didn't the russians warn indira to stay out of west pakistan in 71. The russians were confident that the US would engage indo-russ had indira crossed into pak.

I've not purportedly made the assessment pessimistic. It's been like this for so long.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Jul 2012 21:47

Vishal, like I said, we can't take on everyone at the same time. If we are to defeat Unkil's strategic game of keeping India 'down', assuming that is their intention, then one way is to team up with PRC and TSP. That would be a big disaster. There is no other game in town. Non alignment is, and always been a farce. Russia is a joke now, under Putin. The other option is to keep Unkil on our side when the tides of history or circumstances (such as now) bring our boats together, all the while living under no illusions but using Unkil just as he may have used TSP or even us in the past. That would keep Beijing on toes and increase its cost of supporting TSP/TSPA. Who knows, they may change their game and bring us TSP's head on a silver plate as dowry as they are perfectly capable of doing.

Once we reach a certain position of strength, we can then cooperate with Beijing on equals, if at that point Unkil is needling us or trying to keep us bottled to Asia/S.Asia. Right now, cooperation with PRC is not only impossible, cooperation as equals will be dealt with contemptuous disregard, as Jiang Zemin more than once made clear.

What our lal salaam comrades are advocating is not cooperation, is pax-Beijing-ana, a form of slavery to Beijing and Kayani with Maoists and leftists in India keeping things in 'check'

Give me an unequal partnership with Unkil any day.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 24 Jul 2012 22:05

@Suppiah
I understood your "enemy's enemy our friend" argument. But IMO, a genuine duel is only possible if india refuses to ally itself.

And I wouldn't view the naxals so negatively. The CPI probably but not the naxals.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Jul 2012 22:48

Suppiah wrote: ...

On a personal level, what should we mujahids do? Stop working for US companies? Surrender our green cards and come back home? Refuse to take calls from US in call centers?

We can do at least the minimum. Which is to avoid finding endless excuses and hedges for not unconditionally, unequivocally siding with the SDRE Indian who has been killed by a foreign power.

This is BRF. This is not the place for impartial judgment of India from Mt. Olympus. If your heart cannot be with India against all comers, what is the point?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Jul 2012 22:58

Suppiah wrote:On a personal level, what should we mujahids do? Stop working for US companies? Surrender our green cards and come back home? Refuse to take calls from US in call centers?

Suppiah ji,

if I may offer a perspective on this.

It doesn't matter where an Indian lives in the world. If he has taken the citizenship of the other country, he may show loyalty to that country/nation, but he owes it to Indians to be forthwith with his loyalty compulsions.

Secondly, I would say even though he is 'loyal' to another country, he should still remain loyal to the Indic Civilization and her interests.

I think Civilizational interests of India should take precedence over the national interests of some country to which one may have pledged loyalty.

Especially in an immigration land like USA, there is no reason that the interests of the country are to be synonymous with interests as interpreted by the migrant and elite white majority. It is just as possible that one day USA would align its interests to India on India's terms. It is for that agenda that Indian-Americans can work on.

It should be not to prod India to align Indian interests with those of America which are considered sacrosanct and unchangeable. No it should be the other way round - to align American interests to those of the Indic Civilization.

Just my 2 cents.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 24 Jul 2012 23:43

Suppiah wrote: Again, not trying to compare, but even for cases of deliberate murder of civilians, our jawans /policemen/coast guard/BSF etc., do not face any prosecution. Let alone accidental killing or trigger happy shooting. So in comparison, both would look ugly unless you want to split hairs on degrees of ugliness.

This is a load of rubbish. Please provide documented evidence to this effect. Any time any incident takes place there will be a CoI. People are punished when found guilty. If you wish to wave the US flag, do so. I don't see why you need to include Indian soliders and police in your argument with some kind of repulsive equal equal argument.

Incidentally that Thai "fishing boat" was a hijacked vessel and at that time under the control of pirates who'd threatened the naval ship and armed men were visually identified on deck before the Tabar opened fire.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 24 Jul 2012 23:51

Suppiah wrote:Doc-ji that was just to highlight the tense nature of the job and resultant error in judgement, I am not saying USN is right all I am saying is let us not throw baby out with bath water..or words to the effect..hope it is clear.

Lot of Auto/Taxi Drivers in Indian Cities live a very stressful life. Going by your justification they can also murder/rape/rob an American Tourist. After all they can also suffer from error in Judgement. Right.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 25 Jul 2012 01:06

US Deputy Secretary of Defence Ashton Carter - link
on july 23 at Confederation of Indian Industry(an intensely pro-US org)

In the future, therefore, our Asia-Pacific posture will increase relative to other theaters. We intend to have 60 percent of our naval assets in the Pacific by 2020, a very different thing.

To those who doubt we have the resources to accomplish all of this, I would to the contrary point out two factors that make it eminently possible.

First, with Iraq behind us and Afghanistan -- Afghanistan slated to wind down, capacity will be released that can be allocated to the Asia-Pacific region.

Second, within our budget, we can and are prioritizing investments relative to the Asia-Pacific theater, rather than, for example, counterinsurgency, where we've put so much effort over the past decade.

They're all here now - pakistan, china and the US. And very soon, in the indian ocean.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 25 Jul 2012 05:49

Suppiah ^^^: FWIW, +1.

Unlike the eyetalians who shot Indian fishermen w/o warning and who now are living in accommodations suitable for oiropeans away from the brown hoi polloi, there is an investigation underway by the USN.

Say what one might about trigger happy, beer swilling, trailer dwelling types, the Khanite USN absolutely operates by the book: level 1, level 2 level n before lethal force. Compare that to what Luigi and Beppo of the eyetalian marines did: shoot first and ask for pizza later.

It is another matter that a fast craft with 3 outboard motors that blithely keeps getting closer to a very large grey ship with lots of guns aboard that is sending a lot of signals (some of them very loud) saying 'back off' and it is not about "keep off my fishing spot".

Don't be deterred by certain closet bhadrakumaris who seize every opportunity to declare someone 'mutus', de-racinated Indian *.*, mcaulayites, whatever, when someone expresses a view different from theirs regarding the US. They control the narrative and they want you to know it.

If I were into CT theories as they apparently are, I would think this consistent anti-US was an organized effort by the yecch!uries under the influence of their Han masters. But I am not into CT theories...

The 'India-US Strategic News and Discussion' thread has for sometime devolved into a US bashing thread. A far cry from 10 years ago. There is nothing 'strategic' about it anymore. I suggest to MODs that we rename it appropriately. Let the bhadrakumaris and yecch!uries have their fill in a groupthinkalooza. The rest of us can move on to truly strategic matters.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 25 Jul 2012 06:08

Suppiah wrote:On top of that you have to consider the fact that one is a open society where millions of Indians have prospered, glass ceiling or not, and rose to enormous heights. Perhaps a few of them are members in this forum.

Get over this emotional feeling. It is true that millions of Indians have prospered from US. But it has to be seen as a mutually beneficial business relation. Just like Indians benefited from US relation, US and its corporations also have benefitted from cheap and abundant Indian IT labor. Without the vast pool of Indian engineers, we would not have seen the kind of IT/internet growth we saw in the past decades. Do you think it would have grown this much if they had to pay 200K-500K for latest Java programmers? This cheap labor helped US corporations stay ahead of companies from other countrie. Your argument is like saying that only Indians prospered by working as laborers at British sugar cane farms at various colonies.

Acknowledge that both of us benefitted and then stand by our interests. Don't start thinking that because you/I benefitted by US relationship we should stay paki when some Indians are arbitrarily killed by US officers. We need to say what we have to and GoI has to do what it has to.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 Jul 2012 06:11

RajeshA -bhai, I agree with you in principle and anyone that has been reading me regularly know where I am placed in these respects. At the same time, we have to have the courage and ability to look at things from various perspectives. If US bashing is the only option allowed, here in BRF and elsewhere and we have the likes of Moothra and Chindu batting aggressively for PRC, can you see where that would lead us?

Oh BTW, Lanka navy has been killing the very same tamil fishermen for breakfast lunch and dinner for years now....I would request the very same warriors who are foaming at their mouths and oozing steam from all pores to kindly refer back to the SL thread and see what their take on that is...If this thread has 100 posts slamming Unkil for killing one fisherman, SL thread should be 5,000 pages long by now.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jul 2012 06:13

Say what one might about trigger happy, beer swilling, trailer dwelling types, the Khanite USN absolutely operates by the book

Yes, we know that US military always operates by the book. What happened in Abu Ghraib prison must also be in some "book". And we know that public knew about it because the US military released information about it *voluntarily*.

there is an investigation underway by the USN.

And we know how investigations work in the "land of the free". Due to some reason, Headley was not extradited. Evidence concerning 1993 bomb blasts was "destroyed". And access was not given to India for interrogating IC 814 hijackers. So much for their great love for justice.

It is another matter that a fast craft with 3 outboard motors that blithely keeps getting closer to a very large grey ship with lots of guns aboard that is sending a lot of signals (some of them very loud) saying 'back off' and it is not about "keep off my fishing spot".

Right! There are "lots of guns abroad". It means that the sea around that ship is the "baap ka maal" of the USN. No one should enter than region.

If I were into CT theories as they apparently are, I would think this consistent anti-US was an organized effort by the yecch!uries under the influence of their Han masters. But I am not into CT theories...

And if I were into CT theories, I would think that this American boot-licking was an organized effort of the MUTU America-rakshaks. But I am not into CT theories ...

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 Jul 2012 06:15

And I am still to see one productive suggestion on what GOI should do.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2012 06:16

Suppiah wrote: Give me an unequal partnership with Unkil any day.

That would mean seeing eye to eye about Pakistan which is a US ally. I am not sure if you have used the expression that "an enemy's enemy should be our friend". But The US is an "ally" of Pakistan. And you are suggesting that a US that shoots an Indian fisherman should be let off by sympathizing with the tension faced by tense US shipmen on the basis of the relationship it has relative to Pakistan and India? That is a load of rubbish sir. You should really rethink what you have written and retract your words. India's handling or Naxals and encounter deaths and non alignment have absolutely nothing to do with this.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2012 06:20

Suppiah wrote:And I am still to see one productive suggestion on what GOI should do.

Well at least you should be complimented for accepting that your own suggestions are worthless, considering that you don't know what the GoI should do and you suggest letting off the US murderers because you imagine that a country that is an ally of Pakistan is such a friend of India that we need to empathize with the tense state of the soldiers who committed the murder. The topic would not have come up if you had not brought it up.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 Jul 2012 06:22

Doc if simply saying that we should keep things in perspective is rubbish, let that rubbish stay, and provide a ugly ogre to avoid evil eyes being cast on all the beautiful thoughts and words expressed here.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Jul 2012 06:23

Doing nothing is one action

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 Jul 2012 06:24

shiv wrote:
Suppiah wrote:And I am still to see one productive suggestion on what GOI should do.
Well at least you should be complimented for accepting that your own suggestions are worthless, considering that you don't know what the GoI should do and you suggest letting off the US murderers because you imagine that a country that is an ally of Pakistan is such a friend of India that we need to empathize with the tense state of the soldiers who committed the murder. The topic would not have come up if you had not brought it up.

Look like you are not reading what I am saying....there is an investigation and we should accept it if it is done properly. If not protest by all means. So far GOI reaction is quite ok considering everything. That is my suggestion and view.

I would still say it, unless you can convince mods to remove my posting rights.

And doc-ji I expect a little bit more respect and consideration for alternative viewpoints by a man of your experience and calibre.