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Now I have started to feel Pukistan like a sneeze that does not "come". You wait and wait and look at the sun and do some other tamasha. It keeps irritating at the tip of the nose, but does not not explode.
^ I am......not......sure....pakis use condom with goat. Well I dont think a paki can make goat pregnant...that would be really really weird......not there is enough reseach on sexually transmitted diseases by goats to paki-kind. But if you hear news of some goat having AIDS, you know whom she got from.
Now I have started to feel Pukistan like a sneeze that does not "come". You wait and wait and look at the sun and do some other tamasha. It keeps irritating at the tip of the nose, but does not not explode.
Does it mean that the apology is for nPakistan too? since in 1919 it was part of India?
No Paki died there as no one struggled for the freedom. The land was freely given to them in 47 because of Nehru /Gandhi 's shortsightedness.
The fact of the matter is Pakistan have not one recognized freedom fighter who fought aginst Brirish imperialism.
The killings, known in India as the Jallianwala Bagh massacre, were described by Mahatma Gandhi, the father of the Indian independence movement, as having shaken the foundations of the British Empire. A group of soldiers opened fire on an unarmed crowd without warning in the northern Indian city after a period of unrest, killing hundreds in cold blood.
This makes it look like non state actors. It does go on to mention name Gen Dyer, but "a group of soldiers" ... Bhat de phuke
And that group of soldiers was made up Gurkhas and Baluchis. I can understand Brig Dyer ordering, but never understood these Indians soldiers opening fire. But then I guess they just 'obeyed orders'
Jhujar, The Jallinwalla bagh massacre has to be seen in the context of habitual use of the Maxim gun on natives the British since it was invented. Before Jalllianwala bagh the machine gun was used repeatedly in Africa to crush opposition to British rule. I would suggest looking at Brig Dyer's past service record to see if he was involved in past massacres in Africa.
ramana, I was not aware that they deployed machine guns at Jallianwalla (although Dyer said he would have used them if he could), just good old fashioned British rapid rates of fire on the 303 Lee-Enfield?
Nandu: I was aware. Is court martial and jail term more difficult to suffer than massacring innocent civilians especially your own countrymen? I know it is Monday morning quarterbacking. That defense ('obeyed orders') was not accepted, if I remember correctly, during Nurenburg trials. I visited Jallianwalabagh last year. It is pretty small place and I am surprised that it could accommodate 20k people. Dyer could not bring his armored cars with machine guns in because of narrow entrance.
saip wrote:Nandu: I was aware. Is court martial and jail term more difficult to suffer than massacring innocent civilians especially your own countrymen? I know it is Monday morning quarterbacking. That defense ('obeyed orders') was not accepted, if I remember correctly, during Nurenburg trials. I visited Jallianwalabagh last year. It is pretty small place and I am surprised that it could accommodate 20k people. Dyer could not bring his armored cars with machine guns in because of narrow entrance.
Saip, soldiers are recruited in their late teens and the army becomes their father and mother. They are trained to obey orders or else no soldier will ever fight. As far as "obeyed orders" being no defence -values have changed from time to time. For German soldiers after ww2 "obeyed orders" was a good defence.
For Paul Tibbets whose A bomb mission killed over 100,000 people in Hiroshima, "obeyed orders" has been a perfectly good defence that held till he died. For an American Predator controller "obeyed orders" is a good defence until he falls into the hands of Taliban after which his defence will start looking a little ragged.
One puki news reads...Nokia launches Lumia 920, 820, 620 in pukistan. I say nokia is doomed. It should have a puki exclusive Lumia 420 that they can easily relate to and proudly use.
WASHINGTON: Pakistan risks imposition of stringent US and UN sanctions if proposed Iran-Pakistan pipeline deal goes through, Wall Street Journal says in a report.
“Washington has made it clear that it will impose economic sanctions on Islamabad if it begins to buy gas from Iran. Besides, the UN mandated sanctions on any trade with the oil-rich country,” the newspaper said.
In a written reply to The Wall Street Journal, the US embassy in Islamabad reiterated the US position and said: “Our policy on Iran is well known. We have made it clear to all of our interlocutors around the world that it is in their interests to avoid activities that may be prohibited by United Nations sanctions or sanctionable under US law.”
Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf said on Tuesday that the pipeline would be a “big leap forward” in resolving country’s crippling power crisis.
The WSJ says: “While the pipeline could bring relief to energy-starved Pakistan, analysts say that the deal reveals more about the geopolitical dynamics between the US, Pakistan and Iran than about the government’s commitment to address the energy
crisis.”
Let’s face it; Pakistan and India have incompatible mutual obsessions. Ours is Kashmir and security. What rankles with India is that we are still on the map of the world. Pakistan was not just a mistake in Indian eyes but an insult to the idea of India. Every so often well meaning Pakistanis forget this and try to square the circle. Like I did when, as a junior officer manning the India Desk in the Foreign Office, I felt that given a modicum of goodwill India-Pakistan relations were fixable and not permanently jinxed. After all, I reasoned, had Jinnah not said he wanted the best possible relations with India? Then why were these old fogies of the Foreign Office going on and on about India being the ‘eternal’ enemy. And so, in my own puny way, I supported moves for better relations with India and spoke out whenever those who mattered were within earshot.Instead of rushing in where angels fear to tread I should have asked myself why Jinnah, who was about as areligious and secular a man as you would find in the Subcontinent suddenly had a change of heart and why this ‘Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity’ (Gokhale) preferred, in his own words, “a truncated moth-eaten Pakistan” to remaining within India.
Or, better still, why my father thought nothing of leaving a score of family homes in a street named after his father in Bangalore (still there) in exchange for a rickety abode in Karachi, especially when in Bangalore and southern India in general there was little Hindu-Muslim animosity.
It was only when I was thrown onto the scrap heap that most retirees are and began reading intensively that the penny dropped and it occurred to me that the old fogies of the FO may have been right after all. They had roomed and schooled with their Indian counterparts; they had gone to college with them; they had eyed the same gals and knew and understood each other. And yet, this lot was convinced that for Muslims, Hindu majority rule was unacceptable. Were they all, to a man, mistaken? Surely not, I thought, and started looking for clues.
Consider what Jaswant Singh, a former Indian foreign minister and among the most intelligent of the lot India has had, confided to US Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbot privately during their extended conversations in the mid 1990s: As far as India was concerned, Pakistan was not just India’s sibling but its twin – born of the same womb. However, from the moment of its birth Pakistan had gone terribly and permanently wrong. According to Jaswant, Pakistan was a relatively small incurably troubled and incorrigibly troublesome state that dreamed of parity with India it would never attain or deserve. Kashmir was “closed history” and a case study in the fraught history of Pakistan. It was not fitting as a topic for international diplomacy. Pakistan’s fixation with Kashmir should be understood as an objectification of Pakistan’s predicament as a lost soul among nations, an ersatz country whose founder’s only real legacy was a permanent reminder of what a tragic mistake partition had been. No one had had as much experience with Islam as India. India knew how to deal with Pakistan (and presumably Islam) and America must work with India in waging our common struggle against these forces. Precisely, but the truth is that India isn’t really bothered whether it gets on with Pakistan. In Jaswant’s view it suffices that Pakistan is an illegitimate state and an illegitimate heir of British India and therefore can have no legal claim to the patrimony, certainly not in preference to that of the sole legitimate heir – Bharat. Viewed thus it is unrealistic to believe that we can achieve anything more than a modus vivendi with India in the foreseeable future. And perhaps not even then, if our internal decay shows no signs of abating and the prospect of us fracturing increases. India will want to wait and see what kind of an entity or entities will replace Pakistan. Perhaps that’s why very little has emerged from the composite dialogue. Agreements reached have not been concluded; every little molehill has been made into a mountain and used as a pretext to prolong talks. Even where agreements were signed their implementation has been delayed or suspended. So let’s drop the notion that somehow if we keep talking things will mend. Keep talking by all means but let’s not have a delusional view of these talks and let’s also concede that there are few happy endings in the India-Pakistan saga. Frankly, the stronger and higher the walls between us neighbours, the better neighbours we will make.
(Inbred dont mention that It is India who is building Fence to keep the undesired out. Good fences make good neighbors and keep the dirt out)
Last edited by Prem on 21 Feb 2013 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
ISLAMABAD: In a major move to boost bilateral cooperation, Iran has agreed to set up a $4 billion oil refinery in Gwadar with an estimated capacity of about 400,000 barrels per day.
Prime Minister’s Adviser on Petroleum and Natural Resources Dr Asim Hussain told Dawn on Wednesday that an understanding to this effect had been reached during a meeting between Iranian delegation led by Oil Minister Rostam Ghasemi and Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf.An official said a memorandum of understanding for setting up the refinery was expected to be signed during President Asif Ali Zardari’s visit to Tehran on Feb 27.He said land for the project would be provided to Iran near Gwadar port.Dr Asim said Pakistan was expected to pay the price of gas to be delivered to it through the Pak-Iran gas pipeline and petroleum products purchased from the proposed refinery in the form of food products, particularly wheat, rice and meat.He said a technical team would visit Tehran on Thursday to finalise parameters of the MoU on the refinery and settle issues relating to the Pak-Iran gas pipeline.Earlier, a company owned by the UAE government had committed to set up a refinery at Khalifa Point in Balochistan but backed out for unknown reasons.Meanwhile, the visiting Iranian delegation met President Asif Ali Zardari to firm up schedule for his visit to Tehran next week. statement said President Zardari had highlighted Pakistan’s energy needs and steps taken to meet them. He called for greater connectivity between the two countries and stressed the need for moving forward on the ‘ECO Container Train’ project.
X posting here for Publicity which Kargil was a miltary failure for the Pakis, out of thier 3.5 Friends , the 1 seems to N.American and our Northern neighbour together seems to be the most important.
And stated everywhere Pakistan has little for no Indigenous Missile program me, it was always Chinese and Noko repainted stuff
ramana wrote:X-post to put things in proper prespective.
The prime minister’s arrival in Washington was shrouded in mystery. The first reports of the visit came to the Pakistan Embassy not from our foreign office but the State Department. Everyone was caught unawares. Hurried meetings were called, confidential internal memos dug up, and briefs developed to be able to lay down all the necessary ground work for the emergency high-octane meeting. Nawaz Sharif arrived on July 3 at Andrews Airbase and was received by Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the Saudi Ambassador to the US, and then taken for intense briefings.By the time Nawaz Sharif touched down in Washington to defuse the situation, the entire world had descended on us in the Pakistan Embassy with Pakistan being criticised heavily, both in the print and the electronic media. In this backdrop, Nawaz Sharif battled his way up – pleading with the world to give diplomacy a chance.Saudi intervention on Nawaz Sharif’s SOS call made this possible. And the man who could work this miracle was Prince Bandar Bin Sultan.He staunchly supported the idea of forging close relations with Pakistan and China and believed that Pakistan was under-utilising its potential. He once asked former interim Prime Minister Moeen Qureshi: “I don’t understand why Pakistan is always afraid of Indian chicken”. He made China deliver intermediate range nuclear-warhead capable missiles despite strong opposition from CIA and the Department of State. During the Iran-Contra scandal, he bankrolled the whole affair.
Sharif never doubted a military take over. While the agreement was being documented, his anxiety was also mounting: “They will get me Mr President,” he whispered. Clinton quipped: “Yours is a rogue army. Keep them under civilian oversight”. Nawaz retorted: “It is not the army. It is (a) few dirty eggs. They will meddle to cover up the Kargil debacle”. And three months later, the military struck. The coup was inevitable. The ‘Dirty Four’ were afraid of a Kargil investigation and a possible court martial. Washington accepted it as a ‘fait accompli’.Gen Musharraf had the last laugh. In order to stay in power he hacked everything – faked the referendum, rigged the elections, pushed us into a war we never deserved, destroyed district administrations, packed the superior judiciary with cronies and finally left behind an NRO-tainted accidental leadership. Nawaz Sharif arranged an honourable exit from Kargil but missed the gallows by inches. Gen Shahid Aziz deserves respect for telling the truth – which is always in short supply in our country. If we still have a few good men in the army, they just need to wake up and come out with the truth.
He later defended his decision not to say sorry, explaining that it happened 40 years before he was born and "I don't think the right thing is to reach back into history and to seek out things you can apologize for".
"I think the right thing is to acknowledge what happened, to recall what happened, to show respect and understanding for what happened," Guardian newspaper quoted him as saying.
In 1997 the Queen laid a wreath at a site during a tour of India. But her gaffe-prone husband Prince Philip stole the headlines by reportedly saying that the Indian estimates for the death count were "vastly exaggerated".
Jhujar wrote:
Perhaps that’s why very little has emerged from the composite dialogue. Agreements reached have not been concluded; every little molehill has been made into a mountain and used as a pretext to prolong talks. Even where agreements were signed their implementation has been delayed or suspended. So let’s drop the notion that somehow if we keep talking things will mend. Keep talking by all means but let’s not have a delusional view of these talks and let’s also concede that there are few happy endings in the India-Pakistan saga. Frankly, the stronger and higher the walls between us neighbours, the better neighbours we will make.
ramana wrote:Jhujar, The Jallinwalla bagh massacre has to be seen in the context of habitual use of the Maxim gun on natives the British since it was invented. Before Jalllianwala bagh the machine gun was used repeatedly in Africa to crush opposition to British rule. I would suggest looking at Brig Dyer's past service record to see if he was involved in past massacres in Africa.
the first large scale use was at the battle of ulundi in 1879 - the final battle in the anglo-zulu war. the zulu army was mown down at long range using heavy machine gun and rifle fire in the final stand of the zulu kingdom. in every previous battle, the zulu's despite having limited firepower were generally able to skirmish and close with the british line - and in several battles were able to defeat british forces in brutal hand to hand combat. generally speaking if the zulus could close to CQB then they had a good chance of winning. the idea at ulundi was to prevent any hope of the zulu's closing. despite heavy casualties, the zulu regiments kept on advancing till the very end
subsequently machine guns were used in other african colonial wars
dyer would have been a young man at the time of ulundi, but he would have grown up in a mindset of using an 'iron-hand' to deal with surly (and unworthy) natives
The ambience at the Polo Lounge is serene and reeks of old money, a lot like its owner, some would say. After all, the fine-dining restaurant is Hina Rabbani Khar's 'baby'. On the menu are steak, prawn and lobster - quite fittingly "foreign" for an eatery owned by Pakistan's foreign minister.
An outdoor restaurant with spectacular views of the Margalla Hills in Islamabad's upmarket Saidpur Village, the Lounge attracts the who's who of the capital city. It's the second in a chain of restaurants started by Khar, who has a degree in hospitality management from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. The first Polo Lounge came up at a polo club in Lahore 11 years ago. Khar's businessman husband Feroze Gulzar is a polo aficionado.
Interesting nugget
One of the country's richest ministers, she paid only $720 in taxes last year. In Pakistan, this is par for the course.
