PAK-FA and FGFA: News & Discussion - June 2014

[Manish_P]

Thread on Su-57 radar cross section...

https://x.com/Schultz8988/status/190327 ... 40433?s=20 ---> A thread analysis of the Su-57 (PAK FA) stealth aircraft. I have noticed that a lot of people tend to claim the the SU57 has the RCS of a Super-hornet or a rafale, I am here to disprove these claims using independent research. So to start off...

Admiral sir, if you don't mind, could you pls. cross post the above in the PAK-FA and FGFA thread as well. Thanks

Added - i think i have done it.. somewhat

[Rakesh]

Admiral sir, if you don't mind, could you pls. cross post the above in the PAK-FA and FGFA thread as well. Thanks

Added - i think i have done it.. somewhat

Done Saar.

[Cain Marko]

Thread on Su-57 radar cross section...

https://x.com/Schultz8988/status/190327 ... 40433?s=20 ---> A thread analysis of the Su-57 (PAK FA) stealth aircraft. I have noticed that a lot of people tend to claim the the SU57 has the RCS of a Super-hornet or a rafale, I am here to disprove these claims using independent research. So to start off...

Great catch Admiral guru. This should be obvious even witha quick eyeball mk1a and common sense application.

The felon is definitely and obviously ahead of the Rafale or any euro canard stealth wise.

[Cain Marko]

So I guess it'll be an off the shelf purchase? I think it's dawning on someone that they're going to need the airframes.

Sukhoi Su-57 News | Has India Selected Russian Su-57?

Less than a year after Operation Sindoor, defence corridors are abuzz with speculation that India is considering procuring Russian fifth-generation fighter aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-57, to boost the Air Force arsenal, sources have told NDTV. The Air Force, the sources added, may order 40 such jets if India eventually decides to go ahead. Aerial warfare has entered an era in which detection, and not combat capabilities, will be the key differentiating factor. Fifth-generation fighter aircraft, such as the Sukhoi Su-57, come with enhanced stealth capabilities that make detection by enemy forces difficult.

[bala]

Always emergency procurement, whatever happened to solid planning and executing according to plan. Su-57 is a good bird and has proven capabilities. India can perhaps acquire a few and work on MKI of Su-57. However, AMCA must be pursued and hastened quickly. We have to break this dependency cycle somehow. Getting AMCA with the Kaveri engine should be the priority to break free of any videshi dependency.

[bkswarti]

Years of mismanagement and ignorance has now lead to us spending billions to buy jets off the shelf. I understand IAF needs this capability NOW. But, it’s Just a shame. We should make sure we don’t make the same mistakes going forward

[Manish_P]

So I guess it'll be an off the shelf purchase? I think it's dawning on someone that they're going to need the airframes.
...

It was going to be an off-the-shelf purchase the moment we realized that we were not getting anything worthwhile under 'co-development' and walked out of the FGFA program around 2017-2018, after having sunk some $300 million in it.

[Manish_Sharma]

So I guess it'll be an off the shelf purchase? I think it's dawning on someone that they're going to need the airframes.

Sukhoi Su-57 News | Has India Selected Russian Su-57?

Less than a year after Operation Sindoor, defence corridors are abuzz with speculation that India is considering procuring Russian fifth-generation fighter aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-57, to boost the Air Force arsenal, sources have told NDTV. The Air Force, the sources added, may order 40 such jets if India eventually decides to go ahead..

I hope they go for 272 eventually 100% replacement of Su30

There was report that only 150 out 260 Su30 airframes were considered worth upgrades
meaning 110 Su30s are on their last legs & would be retired over next 15 years

everybody is talking about vaccum created by retirement of Jaguars-M2k-Mig29 over next decade but what about these 110 Su30s retiring? as Group Captain Ajay Ahlawat was saying that when Jaguars-M2k-Mig29 retire by 2035 we'll be left with only 18 squadrons. Going further another 5 years 110 Su30s also either retire or are mostly in maintenace, so goes another 5 squadrons.

Also sheer range advantage Su30/Su57 has over others freeing them up from need of hanging cumbersome fuel tanks that take up space where munitions/missiles can be hung makes them precious

Despite f35 f22 usa goes on producing inducting f15s for a reason

Also in sheer thrust to weight Su57 is head and shoulder above others.

HNair ji had written a post years ago how AMCA is too small for china Tibet operations. I'll try to find that post. I think Su57 will do that role well

Russians were on high horse of arrogance in last decade, now they are down in mud wrestling nato pigs in ukraine

They are desperate, ready to be exploited. Su57 has 360°radar coverage huge range, ready to provide source codes so we can fit our future missiles/munitions if russian oem asks too much in future, just like we did for Brahmos.

We can fit our GaN Virupaksha AESA on Su57... of course the whole thing will be long griding laborious arduous, but will help in giving some capability against chinese juggernaut of j20-j35-j36-j50s

time for puny 36 - 40 - 60s are gone
Chinese are making 120 J20s per year

Govt saved lots of money over last decades in defence by this RETURN OF BUDGET FUNDS every YEAR by forces due to inablity to utilise them. Then these funds were used up in civilian projects

Now time to bite the bullet & go for fighters-AEW&CS-refuellers et al in big way, time to open coffers

[Manish_P]

...
I hope they go for 272 eventually 100% replacement of Su30
...

IMVHO we might go for a 1:3 or 1:4 replacement of the Su-30MKI with the Su-57MKI. The rest of it we might simply replace the old Su-30s with new build Su-30s with new gen sensors and new gen weapons.

Much as i hope and wish (and have prayed for this the past decade) the AMCA will likely not come in time or in enough numbers or with enough independence - unless we crack the indigenous engine issue.

[Manish_Sharma]

IMVHO we might go for a 1:3 or 1:4 replacement of the Su-30MKI with the Su-57MKI. The rest of it we might simply replace the old Su-30s with new build Su-30s with new gen sensors and new gen weapons...

But then number problem will remain. Chinese producing 120 J-20s every year
by 2030 they'll have 1000+ J20s not to mention other Js 31/35/36/50

su57 may not have possiblity for smooth production + MKIzation process like Rafale but that's all we have. Due to F/404 F/414 dependency Tejas 1/2, first 40 AMCAs aren't a reliable bet anymore

Safran GTRE engine isn't possible before 2038

While same lethargy is going on in producing SWIFT stealth UCAVs

When AM Joshi was asked in press conference last oct-nov about status of Ghatak RSPA he quipped "we'r looking into it..." means IAF hasn't even given ASQR for it

While turks cheenis are going ahead full production with their stuff

[Manish_P]

...
But then number problem will remain. Chinese producing 120 J-20s every year
by 2030 they'll have 1000+ J20s not to mention other Js 31/35/36/50
...

The numbers problem will remain until we become a manufacturing power house like China and/or surpass the GDP of China multiple times over (to hope that our costly imports will beat their cheaper indigenous products).

Till that happens we have to counter their aircraft numbers not by Air to Air but Anti Air.