India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 13 Mar 2011 20:59

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Mar 2011 05:27

Check this report and how they use terms.
Similar to some of the poster in the forum

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asi ... 53683.html

Indian Electricity Initiative Shines New Light on Farm Garbage
Kurt Achin | New Delhi March 12, 2011

Some of India's most remote farming villages are beginning to see sundown in a new light, now that they are able to convert an abundant crop into electricity.

Remote regions are prime examples of what people describe as old India - parts of the country off the grid, literally, from new India and its high-tech urban centers.

Yadav says previously young people here could never think of doing anything beyond village level farming. But now they are dreaming of becoming doctors, engineers and scientists. The arrival of electricity, he says, is raising their ambition.

That is exactly the kind of ambition and talent new India will need as it ascends to superpower status on the world stage - nurtured by one of the most abundant by-products of old India's agriculture.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 14 Mar 2011 08:08

KP Nayar: Antony apprehensive about corruption/lobbying in MMRCA deal:

US secretary of state Hillary Clinton was all set to travel to India with a power-packed delegation in just over three weeks, but that high-profile visit has now been cancelled because of Antony’s insistence that he will not be pushed around by the Americans on the biggest military aviation deal in history. The ministry of external affairs on Friday announced the postponement of the dialogue which was to begin on April 6 in New Delhi, but offered the excuse of the “state elections in India and ongoing developments in West Asia and North Africa” for the delay. “The Indians all along knew that state elections would take place at this time and the turmoil in the Middle East began in January,” said a Pentagon official.

The postponement became inevitable after Antony firmly refused to meet US defence secretary Robert Gates who wanted to travel with Clinton to India for the dialogue and lobby on behalf of American bidders for the MMRCA deal. A senior Indian official said the Americans never formally communicated that Gates would be part of Clinton’s delegation at any time but were in overdrive by activating US lobbies in New Delhi to get India to agree to their defence secretary’s inclusion in the strategic dialogue. Signals from the defence ministry in recent weeks are that Sweden’s Saab JAS 39 Gripen and France’s Dassault Rafale have an edge in the Indian selection process at this stage of the MMRCA deal.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Mar 2011 09:55

Building the New World Order: How the United States has become the largest minority stakeholder in the new global order.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... orld_order

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 15 Mar 2011 11:10

Airavat wrote:KP Nayar: Antony apprehensive about corruption/lobbying in MMRCA deal:
....
....
Signals from the defence ministry in recent weeks are that Sweden’s Saab JAS 39 Gripen and France’s Dassault Rafale have an edge in the Indian selection process at this stage of the MMRCA deal.

Yipeee!!!!!!

Go grippen go and clinch this deal...

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 15 Mar 2011 17:01

^^IMO, Antony, there won't be any age left in this edge at this rate of decision making.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Mar 2011 20:44

x-post....

Acharya wrote:
RSoami wrote:.
...I am only saying that we should have the foresight to see that they are going to need us(against China and terrorism) for a long time and in this context buying an American plane is not that bad...Or in fact aligning with US of A is not a bad option....
We have this mentality of trying to be friends with everyone rather than aligning with a few according to changing strategic scenarios...
Regards
This the not the change India wants to align with deeply which is against Indian interest.
Just by being indifferent to American alignment India can influence the future of the global order. US is constrained not by lack of sufficient power but by lack of global cooperation. India is needed but they are unwilling to give what India needs
Mentality of being friends with everyone is the correct strategy in the new century. Indian interest is the most important.

The emerging powers cannot dictate the shape of the coming era, but they can block and complicate U.S. initiative. From its new position, the United States confronts not a rigid bloc of emerging powers, but complex and shifting coalitions of interest. The greatest risk lies, not in a single peer competitor, but in the erosion of cooperation on issues vital to U.S. interests and a stable order. U.S. power is indispensible for that purpose, but not sufficient.

When historians assess America's role in the world after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, they will judge the early failures in Afghanistan, and weigh the costs of the Iraq war against its eventual outcomes (still uncertain). They will balance the deepening of the strategic relationship with India against the deterioration, and eventual reset, of relations with Russia.

They will surely debate this question: did American overstretch amplify the impact of the rise of the "emerging powers?

The emerging powers cannot dictate the shape of the coming era, but they can block and complicate U.S. initiative.

U.S. power is indispensible for international order, but not sufficient. No longer the CEO of Free World Inc., the United States now holds a position akin to that of the largest minority shareholder in Global Order LLC.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... r?page=0,0

vishnua · Post by **vishnua** » 15 Mar 2011 22:32

Obama letter to MMS on MRCA deal

and this as well-not sure was posted before

US dictating India's big defence deals?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Mar 2011 22:47

The sad part is that these guys take years upon years to select a product and then it is brushed aside and a vendor is selected by constable

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 16 Mar 2011 08:21

vishnua wrote:Obama letter to MMS on MRCA deal

and this as well-not sure was posted before

US dictating India's big defence deals?

Isn't it in bad taste to leak the letter? Also, there is no reason why Antony could not have met Gates. Sure Gates wanted to sell his planes but Antony should have listened politely and then India should have made its own decision. Why make excuses about Kerala elections etc.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 16 Mar 2011 08:22

Lot of these negotiations can literally make one puke and take sanyas if one has morals and ethics.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Mar 2011 09:18

May be Antony is sick of MMS and his MEA dhoti shiver cower.. so he scooted to Kerala? Or as said by an esteemed rakshak in MRCA thread, this is all a cover up in favor of deep ties and a well respected poodle arrangement.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Mar 2011 09:42

US leaked ABV 's letter and no one asked such questions of them!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 16 Mar 2011 10:02

^^Which letter was that - any links to the text?

Obama sure seems to be blunt in his hard-sell basically implying that he considers all the trials a farce and GoI should just toe the line. Sadly, he doesn't seem to be wrong in his expectations given past behavior by MMS.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Mar 2011 10:35

RB, its the letter that ABV about China threat after 1998 tests.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 16 Mar 2011 10:58

Pranav wrote:
vishnua wrote:Obama letter to MMS on MRCA deal

and this as well-not sure was posted before

US dictating India's big defence deals?
Isn't it in bad taste to leak the letter? Also, there is no reason why Antony could not have met Gates. Sure Gates wanted to sell his planes but Antony should have listened politely and then India should have made its own decision. Why make excuses about Kerala elections etc.

from that report I saw this

"they wonder if some of them have been compromised so much that there is a blatant rejection of anything that is not coming from either the United States or its crony Israel."

This is the usual leftist pap! The desi lefties control Indian Media and they as usual would go on a spin cycle! Thats their MO! So please take these lefties and their agenda into account.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 16 Mar 2011 11:03

ramana wrote:RB, its the letter that ABV about China threat after 1998 tests.

OK. Will search for the text - at the moment can't recall having seen that in the press.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 16 Mar 2011 11:11

Raja Bose wrote:
ramana wrote:RB, its the letter that ABV about China threat after 1998 tests.
OK. Will search for the text - at the moment can't recall having seen that in the press.

ABV pointed out in his letter that 98 tests were due to China threat, US leaked it, Jaswant and co cried foul. But no one listened.

Anyway reading this letter, I feel that this was "leaked" by the US embassy itself. The synchronized articles about kerala lobby and this letter are the missives from US to give the MRCA to US.

As the article shows, Gates wasnt part of the original brigade. Anthony must have reserved that time for kerala elections and thought a token meeting with Clinton will suffice. Now Gates comes and he expects Anthony to be at his beck and call.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Mar 2011 11:15

Glad we atleast have a Kerala mafia for so far we have foreign mafias!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Mar 2011 02:06

Clinton says she won’t serve in Obama’s second term

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... econd_term

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 18 Mar 2011 09:26

Everybody seems to be on board except U.S. state department. So Obama should focus there and get rid of few obstacles from it.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Mar 2011 15:23

Warren Christopher, Former Secretary of State, Dies at 85

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/us/po ... opher.html

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Mar 2011 11:19

“India has emerged as the most consistent and acerbic critic of the Security Council in what is an increasingly poisonous atmosphere in GA-UNSC relations”.

So said a cable authored by US Ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, which was leaked by Wikileaks and published by the Hindu :

Bilateral ties between India and U.S. are not reflected in multilateral for a

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Mar 2011 11:20

American diplomatic cable leaked by Wikileaks and published by the Hindu shows that the US sought to block the launch of the Italy’s AGILE Satellite by ISRO’s PSLV-C8 launch vehicle :

Protest of USML transfer to India

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Mar 2011 11:47

American diplomatic cable authored by former US Ambassador to India David Mulford leaked by Wikileaks and published by the Hindu indicates that the US believes that while the Indian public has a positive opinion of the US there is an “entrenched skepticism in the bureaucracy towards closer relations with the USG”.

Excerpt on the US views of India from a cable otherwise dealing with Indo-Israel relations:

Israel appears to have some problems identical to--and other problems that are the opposite of)-those the U.S. has in India: Whereas the U.S. polls positively with the Indian public on a regular basis yet still butts against entrenched skepticism in the bureaucracy towards closer relations with the USG, Israel faces a huge knowledge gap among the public yet sees India,s government comfortably dismiss the Left,s criticism of its launch of Israel,s satellites and its skyrocketing purchases of Israeli defense technology. We will remain engaged with the Israeli Embassy and follow whether its public relations strategy to win hearts and minds has any success in swaying the general public while defusing attacks from India,s Left. Israel,s success in this area could yield strategies for the USG,s own efforts at bridging the gap between the Indian public,s enthusiasm and the government,s skepticism of the U.S.

From here:

Israel polishing its image — and its hardware — in India

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 21 Mar 2011 06:20

US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed with photos of murdered civilians
Commanders brace for backlash of anti-US sentiment that could be more damaging than after the Abu Ghraib scandal

They fear that the pictures could be even more damaging as they show the aftermath of the deliberate murders of Afghan civilians by a rogue US Stryker tank unit that operated in the southern province of Kandahar last year.

Some of the activities of the self-styled "kill team" are already public, with 12 men currently on trial in Seattle for their role in the killing of three civilians.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Mar 2011 07:00

The US seems to expect that the improvement in relations with India entitles them to get India to display a servile attitude and kow tow to the American’s demands. Only natural I guess given the years of dealing with poodles on the Indian Sub-Continent like the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and on the Atlantic like the United Kingdom.

Cable authored by former US Ambassador to India David Mulford following a meeting with our NSA Shivshankar Menon:

Let's fix irritants that plague this partnership, Ambassador tells Menon

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 22 Mar 2011 21:02

Spies route---- Uncle Sam’s spooks are watching us. Here’s why

Copenhagen. December 7, 2009. United Nations Climate Change Conference. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Union Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh were hammering out India’s climate policy for the summit. Leader of the bloc of developing nations, India was not seeing eye-to-eye with the US. A worried White House quietly alerted CIA Director Leon E. Panetta to get cracking.A former US Army intelligence officer and former chief of staff of president Bill Clinton, Panetta hustled top US scientists and spies to interpret all the intelligence gathered on India’s negotiating position and about individuals who were spearheading India’s climate change policy.

Declassified CIA documents show that the agency had started gathering intelligence at least seven months before Copenhagen. Ahead of the summit, the CIA’s Office of the Chief Scientist “supported and funded” an extensive study on India—The impact of climate change to 2030: Geopolitical implications.

The study suggested that the US pre-negotiate with India about the climate change issues and find a common ground outside the public and international eye. The CIA also shared its massive archives of classified environmental data with scientists. WikiLeaks confirmed America’s covert campaign to target India at Copenhagen.

All these plans are part of CIA-2015, Panetta’s grand blueprint for the CIA’s resurrection. Panetta wants the agency to recruit, train and retain a diverse workforce for more innovative deployments abroad. The immediate focus of Panetta’s shadow warriors is the Af-Pak region where they run secret facilities to fight the Taliban and al Qaeda.
But India’s growing clout has persuaded the CIA to turn the spyglass on New Delhi. The spooks in the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, are tracking virtually everything from Parliament proceedings to political parties to arms deals to internal security issues.

A senior Indian intelligence officer who has been closely watching CIA-2015 confirmed the agency’s unprecedented interest in India. He said some of the CIA’s best men are secretly travelling through different states and are setting up networks to watch political developments and separatist movements. These networks will seek information about India’s nuclear arsenal and military modernisation.

“The CIA is sending Indian-origin and south Asian-origin officers to India so that they can merge better,” said Jayadeva Ranade, former additional secretary, Research & Analysis Wing. “The basic approach [of the CIA] will be to befriend senior bureaucrats, senior military officials, politicians to find what our intentions are and what we are planning to do.”

The home ministry confirmed that more than 3,500 Americans are illegally overstaying in India since 2006. Neither the ministry nor the security agencies know their whereabouts. Onkar Kedia, spokesman, home ministry, told THE WEEK that his office did not have details about how many illegal aliens from the US had been deported.
A senior serving intelligence officer said that the ‘missing Americans’ could be part of a ‘deep penetration itinerary’. “For example, an undercover CIA agent might be tasked to locate himself for a specific period somewhere near Mumbai or Kochi to collect some information about the movement of warships,” said the official. “Once the job is done, the agent is withdrawn.”

Washington started arm-twisting New Delhi to share information with Islamabad. According to a cable leaked by WikiLeaks (185722: confidential), New Delhi refused to share information with Islamabad. Washington continued arm-twisting and soon the US embassy in Delhi cabled Washington that India had agreed to share “some restricted information” with Pakistan.

On July 6, 2009, the CIA also fixed a meeting in the US between top intelligence officials of India and Pakistan. It is not known if the meeting was held.
The CIA has also been snooping about India’s nuclear and military facilities. India regularly figures in the CIA’s annual report on ballistic missile threats. The CIA had detected a shipment of beryllium bound for India from West Germany. As beryllium shells are used to house plutonium cores of thermonuclear devices, it was quite clear as to what India was up to.

Chief of the Army Staff General V.K. Singh told THE WEEK that adequate safety measures were taken in light of the increased activity of the western intelligence agencies. A senior Army officer said that retired officers who work for foreign defence and security companies were being closely watched as part of a counter-intelligence programme

As part of this programme, the CIA allegedly commissioned a 20-state survey on Indian Muslims. Reportedly, US-based Princeton Survey Research Associates International were the main contractors. Allegedly, they sub-contracted it to TNS, a Delhi-based market research agency.
In Kerala’s capital of Thiruvananthapuram, TNS staff visited Karimadom colony, a predominantly Muslim area. The questionnaire was bizarre: Do you consider yourselves Indians first or Muslims first? Your views on imposing Islamic law in India? Do you like Osama bin Laden? Will you give him refuge if he comes to Kerala? Police nabbed four TNS staff after Karimadom residents complained.

M.K. Dhar, former joint director, Intelligence Bureau, puts it crisply: “The CIA has legitimate interests in India. But our problem with the CIA has been that it has targeted the sensitive segments of Indian panorama.” He recalled how the CIA had developed a mole inside prime minister P.V. Narasimha Rao’s office in 1993. “The plot was exposed when we noticed a peon from the PMO frequently visiting a photostat shop in Khan Market in Delhi. He was smuggling files from the PMO.” The peon was arrested and his American handler was asked to leave the country. The court closed the case last year.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Mar 2011 21:13

Rupesh wrote:
A senior Indian intelligence officer who has been closely watching CIA-2015 confirmed the agency’s unprecedented interest in India. He said some of the CIA’s best men are secretly travelling through different states and are setting up networks to watch political developments and separatist movements. These networks will seek information about India’s nuclear arsenal and military modernisation.

“The CIA is sending Indian-origin and south Asian-origin officers to India so that they can merge better,” said Jayadeva Ranade, former additional secretary, Research & Analysis Wing. “The basic approach [of the CIA] will be to befriend senior bureaucrats, senior military officials, politicians to find what our intentions are and what we are planning to do.”

The home ministry confirmed that more than 3,500 Americans are illegally overstaying in India since 2006. Neither the ministry nor the security agencies know their whereabouts. Onkar Kedia, spokesman, home ministry, told THE WEEK that his office did not have details about how many illegal aliens from the US had been deported.
A senior serving intelligence officer said that the ‘missing Americans’ could be part of a ‘deep penetration itinerary’. “For example, an undercover CIA agent might be tasked to locate himself for a specific period somewhere near Mumbai or Kochi to collect some information about the movement of warships,” said the official. “Once the job is done, the agent is withdrawn.”

As part of this programme, the CIA allegedly commissioned a 20-state survey on Indian Muslims. Reportedly, US-based Princeton Survey Research Associates International were the main contractors. Allegedly, they sub-contracted it to TNS, a Delhi-based market research agency.

India is the only country which allows such countries to openly penetrate and even influence people, election and policies. India allows foreigners to own newspapers, run propaganda wars, even do social engineering. We have even inside BR "Indians" are supporting these countries and their policies. They are trying to influence the Indians and changing their view of the west.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Mar 2011 01:54

>> Do you consider yourselves Indians first or Muslims first? Your views on imposing Islamic law in India? Do you like Osama bin Laden? Will you give him refuge if he comes to Kerala?

Egad!!! Did the idiots running this even think for a second before setting the questions??? I do hope Kerala Police hospitality was provided...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Mar 2011 02:28

Major Indian problem is they carry their diffrences abroad or ashore. Recall the exCBI official dissing Modi to the US guy in the Wikipee.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 23 Mar 2011 03:13

darshan wrote:^Plus, you can get this stuff dime a dozen in India herself. So what is the point, GoI?

Absolutely. Everything can be generated with enough will and a colour printer. So why does anyone bother checking anything at all?

I'm always amazed that people will submit papers documenting every facet of their lives, their dog's lives and the history of their gali and bend over when a visa officer from the "West" asks for it but the

come out when the Indian Govt. asks for half of it.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 23 Mar 2011 08:22

JE Menon wrote:>> Do you consider yourselves Indians first or Muslims first? Your views on imposing Islamic law in India? Do you like Osama bin Laden? Will you give him refuge if he comes to Kerala?

Egad!!! Did the idiots running this even think for a second before setting the questions??? I do hope Kerala Police hospitality was provided...

If its a privately commissioned survey, on what grounds can one stop the survey? Do you believe these questions are not acceptable questions for a market survey or is it that the CIA should not be doing it? I would certainly hope somebody in India is scientifically conducting a survey of this sort.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 23 Mar 2011 09:30

vishnua wrote:Obama letter to MMS on MRCA deal

and this as well-not sure was posted before

US dictating India's big defence deals?

I think the best answer is to build our own jet, see Ajai Shukla's article on scrapping the MMRCA deal altogether, I support this option.

Antony Pull the Plug...
http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ca/429235/

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 23 Mar 2011 09:46

anjan wrote:
Absolutely. Everything can be generated with enough will and a colour printer. So why does anyone bother checking anything at all?

I'm always amazed that people will submit papers documenting every facet of their lives, their dog's lives and the history of their gali and bend over when a visa officer from the "West" asks for it but the come out when the Indian Govt. asks for half of it.

It is not about

. It is about making any sense. To give you an example, just look at fake pilots running around the country. I wrote that comment because of my recent experiences in India when I needed few documents and permissions and somehow it was not an issue. Look at Houston consulate. Two of my relatives apply for visas. One believes in getting it done anyway possible and another believes in doing it the right way. Former one got an agent and got visa within a week without any hassle even with missing Indian passport. Poor other guy submitted all documents and everything but did not matter. At the end he had to go to Houston consulate and pay consulate guy unlisted fee to get visa and board flight next day. I can go on and on about obtaining sim cards, reentry permissions, PCC, etc. but no need to as most people living in India should know how things work.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Mar 2011 20:25

>>If its a privately commissioned survey, on what grounds can one stop the survey?

I'm not saying the survey should be stopped. On the contrary, I was just complaining that the questions were amateur. No wonder the people complained. The same info could be elicited in a much more sophisticated way. This seems crude and unrefined. I mean, for god's sake: "Do you like Osama bin Laden? Will you give him refuge if he comes to Kerala?" ... I half expected to see Bangalore before Kerala there!!!

>>Do you believe these questions are not acceptable questions for a market survey or is it that the CIA should not be doing it?

I think the questions were amateurishly designed (if they are as reported of course). That's why I criticised the setting of the questions. I have no problem if the CIA does it whatsoever. I would encourage more as a matter of fact

... That should confuse the fu(k out of them...

>>I would certainly hope somebody in India is scientifically conducting a survey of this sort.

Oh, no doubt this is happening. But we need to be subtle about these things - and a whole lot lies in the "correct" interpretation.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Mar 2011 20:44

darshan:

May not be the topic of this thread, but I just got back from desh after a hectic 3.5 week of travel in desh. One thing that struck me was that be it IA, or Jet (the airlines I flew), quite a few of the pilots were gora with Amriki accent, and always have a good word or two for the flight attendents

. Is it a trend in India to hire foreign pilots, and that too Amrikis? I mean why would Amrikis choose to make a career on airlines in India? Just curious.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Mar 2011 20:55

A lot of ex-US diplomats say India is hardship posting but six months there changes you into an Indophile. They are often accused of going native. You see them on the yahoo groups etc.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Mar 2011 21:09

CRamS wrote:darshan:

May not be the topic of this thread, but I just got back from desh after a hectic 3.5 week of travel in desh. One thing that struck me was that be it IA, or Jet (the airlines I flew), quite a few of the pilots were gora with Amriki accent, and always have a good word or two for the flight attendents . Is it a trend in India to hire foreign pilots, and that too Amrikis? I mean why would Amrikis choose to make a career on airlines in India? Just curious.

too many pilots in the west, too few in the east
they are going where the jobs are

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 23 Mar 2011 22:21

darshan wrote: It is not about . It is about making any sense. To give you an example, just look at fake pilots running around the country. I wrote that comment because of my recent experiences in India when I needed few documents and permissions and somehow it was not an issue. Look at Houston consulate. Two of my relatives apply for visas. One believes in getting it done anyway possible and another believes in doing it the right way. Former one got an agent and got visa within a week without any hassle even with missing Indian passport. Poor other guy submitted all documents and everything but did not matter. At the end he had to go to Houston consulate and pay consulate guy unlisted fee to get visa and board flight next day. I can go on and on about obtaining sim cards, reentry permissions, PCC, etc. but no need to as most people living in India should know how things work.

Of course it is about

. The US Visa office asks for Indian documentation do they not? Given that you're claiming that it's Indian not US documentation that is faked (which by itself is a shaky claim according to google chacha) it still looks to me like it makes more sense for the Indian govt. to ask for US documentation than for the US govt. to ask for Indian documentation. No?

At the end of the day nobody can stop someone with significant state support from infiltrating using pure passport control. That doesn't mean you don't try however. Nor can systems be designed primarily to cater for corruption. The human link is always the weakest in any system.