J & K news and discussion

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 25 Jan 2011 13:54

amit wrote:Where did I say there are no doubts.

You will make a great politician Sir one day. You know, to delude us aam people.

May I suggest the Kangress Party.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 13:56

What djinn had possessed Nehru that he halted the advance of Indian army against Paki raiders and went to UN instead ? There is no better example of "snatching defeat from jaws of victory ."

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:56

jamwal wrote:Amit sir,

Geelanahi wants a merger with Pakistan. It'll be better to read up a little before typing such long posts

And Jamwal jee, it would help if you read posts before answering.

This is what I wrote:

Also, I'm not too sure that, apart from the Geelani joker, anyone of the Harried Rats and JLKF want to go to Pakistan. They seem to want independent Valley, whatever that means.

I'm sure your know of the language is vast but in my humble way I thought the sentence means that Geelani is the only one of the anti-India forces who don't want an Independent Kashmir. Since he doesn't want to be with India I thought it was obvious that he wanted to go to Pakistan.

Maaf kardo hujur! Galti ho giya!

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 13:57

amit wrote: Most North-east states wanted independence. And China was and still is behind every single one of these outfits. The only difference is that the folks there grew tired and with a loss of support the outfits splintered with one group suing for peace.

Remember that the agitations in the North-east started right after Independence and only ended in the early 1990s.

In 1962 China over ran many parts of arunachal pradesh and then went back.

shows that they wanted to needle us, but there is a big difference between an active claimant and a needler.

Pak goes to every international forum and cries about Kashmir all day long, China may give 1-2 statements

In contrast J&K started in 1989, more seriously only in the mid 1990s, so there's a way yet to go, IMO.

Also, I'm not too sure that, apart from the Geelani joker, anyone of the Harried Rats and JLKF want to go to Pakistan. They seem to want independent Valley, whatever that means.

Things like Kargil have happened and will happen and this figurative talk about eye lids closed don't apply to a country as it does to individual. For example the Congress may close or avert its eyes, but the Nationalist BJP is always there to keep a hawk eye open as is the armed forces.

Remember the kind of fiasco we had after SeS? I agree that was stupid on the part of MMS to have agreed to that document. However, apart from giving the Pakis numerous point scoring opportunities, has anything substantive changed on the ground, apart from the fact that the Congress had to do plenty of downhill skiing?

In the Siachen issue, how do we know it was not a good cop, bad cop routine? Wasn't the same thing reenacted with the armed forces powers issue recently?

Sorry boss I think our institutions and checks and balances are pretty strong. To behave otherwise is grandstanding.

Yes please what was the fiasco after SeS? It was BJP crying hoarse.

The crying hoarse of the opposition is a very very important part of checks and balances. You are overlooking this important detail.

Well, regarding the Siachen, a good cop bad cop routine means, I say bad and then you molly coddle with good. Instead in this it was molly coddling at first and was stopped after chief came out. It means that there was very active thing going on but the IA chief had to put the foot down.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:58

jamwal wrote:What djinn had possessed Nehru that he halted the advance of Indian army against Paki raiders and went to UN instead ? There is no better example of "snatching defeat from jaws of victory ."

It would help if you read up the history of the period. Whether the Indian armed forces had the capability to capture the remaining part.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 13:59

amit wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:so 1/3 rd of kashmir occupation by Pak in 1947 and 1/4 by China in 1962 is a myth??
Sigh!

So 1947 Pak Lashkar's attack and the occupation of Aksai Chin (plus the land gifted by the Pakis to China) is all the fault of the present Congress dispensation?

There are two ways you can get to the bottom of this. One is to read up on the history of that period. Or the other way is to see the film that I read Gadkari is planning.

Either should suffice, I guess.

My statement was in response to your statement.
Yours

In contrast J&K started in 1989, more seriously only in the mid 1990s, so there's a way yet to go, IMO.

Mine

ravi_ku wrote:so 1/3 rd of kashmir occupation by Pak in 1947 and 1/4 by China in 1962 is a myth??

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 14:00

My apologies.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:01

ravi_ku wrote:The crying hoarse of the opposition is a very very important part of checks and balances. You are overlooking this important detail.

Now I know that your are doing this for timepass!

I'm overlooking the checks and balances part, even after writing this:

Sorry boss I think our institutions and checks and balances are pretty strong. To behave otherwise is grandstanding.

Where did I say that crying hoarse of the opposition is not a very very important part?

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 25 Jan 2011 14:02

amit wrote: Didn't know there were doubts that needed proving?

amit wrote: Where did I say there are no doubts.

amit wrote: it would help if you read posts before answering.

amit wrote: please don't put words in my mouth!

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 14:02

Defending J&K was nothing short of impossible for Maharaja Hari SIngh's troops already facing mutiny from muslim soldiers. They still did it. I've read quite a bit about the stuff and most of authors believe that India could've flushed Pakis out

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 25 Jan 2011 14:03

amit,
you must all take into account then, if the pakistani army was capable of defending what they had taken by force? you will get an interesting answer, I got mine from a retired General of the Indian Army himself!

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:04

ravi_ku wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:so 1/3 rd of kashmir occupation by Pak in 1947 and 1/4 by China in 1962 is a myth??
Sigh!

So 1947 Pak Lashkar's attack and the occupation of Aksai Chin (plus the land gifted by the Pakis to China) is all the fault of the present Congress dispensation?

There are two ways you can get to the bottom of this. One is to read up on the history of that period. Or the other way is to see the film that I read Gadkari is planning.

Either should suffice, I guess.

My statement was in response to your statement.
Yours

In contrast J&K started in 1989, more seriously only in the mid 1990s, so there's a way yet to go, IMO.

Mine

ravi_ku wrote:so 1/3 rd of kashmir occupation by Pak in 1947 and 1/4 by China in 1962 is a myth??

[/quote]

In see you didn't understand. I thought that for Kashmir watchers 1989 should ring a bell. That's the year when the attacks on the Pandits began and the anti-India agitation started in ernest, almost on cue to the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan and the free up of the Taliban to be redeployed in Kashmir. Also the year when Benazir Bhutto made that infamous speech.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2011 14:06

Raja Ram wrote: you will get an interesting answer, I got mine from a retired General of the Indian Army himself!

True. I remember reading somewhere that Indian Army wanted to go ahead and capture some more parts of PoK.

I don't remember the names. Indian Army gurus, please enlighten.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:07

Dhiman wrote:
amit wrote:Where did I say there are no doubts.
You will make a great politician Sir one day. You know, to delude us aam people. May I suggest the Kangress Party.

I thought all the amm people like you were with the BJP.

But I must say I find it gratifying that my half an hour timepass on this thread is attracting so much interest. I guess nothing interesting else is happening.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:08

Raja Ram wrote:amit,
you must all take into account then, if the pakistani army was capable of defending what they had taken by force? you will get an interesting answer, I got mine from a retired General of the Indian Army himself!

Since you say so, I'll defer to you since I have had no access to experts like the General you speak about. My little knowledge is gleaned from books.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 14:08

amit, what you are doing is trolling.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 14:10

amit wrote:[
But I must say I find it gratifying that my half an hour timepass on this thread is attracting so much interest. I guess nothing interesting else is happening.

That explains quality of your posts

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:10

Marten wrote:Will let readers determine the position of the poster on this, based on his earlier post. Writing single liners and creating straw men arguments to divert the thread is probably his forte.

Dhanya ho aap, amit ji. Your credibiilty is higher than Sonia ji.

Marten,

Just to put the record straight I don't care a fuk what readers of this thread think about my political inclinations or credibility.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:11

jamwal wrote:
amit wrote:[
But I must say I find it gratifying that my half an hour timepass on this thread is attracting so much interest. I guess nothing interesting else is happening.

That explains quality of your posts

My, my a lot of raw nerves exposed here I see.

Sorry jee, please ignore my posts.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2011 14:11

From the wiki page on General Thimayya

He established the best of relations with Sheikh Abdullah and Bakshi Ghulam Mohammad and even Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, but his pleas to give him three more months to drive the raiders back to Muzzarfarabad fell on deaf ears and instead, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru went to the United Nations.

Other gurus can probably provide better links/sources.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 25 Jan 2011 14:12

Modi slams ‘nikammi’ govt, hails youths on Kashmir march

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi slammed centre and J&K govt today while opening new Shyamaprasad Mukherjee river bridge on river Tapi in Surat. Modi congratulated BJP Youth Morcha youths for their bid to unfurl Indian tricolor in Srinagar.

“Will our country continue to succumb to the motives of terrorists? If terrorists challenge us, should we keep stepping back?”

“I have never seen such ‘nikkammi’ government. I congratulate those youths who have taken challenge to go to Kashmir to hoist tricolor. They should be welcomed, they should be congratulated. Those who wish to do something for the nation should be over in our eyes, and on our heads, and you are sending them in jail? History will never pardon such governments. Amid whatever amount of atrocities, tricolor is this nation’s pride.”

“Dr. Shyamaprasad Mukherjee was first martyr of independent India. Dr. Mukherjee gave his life for Kashmir. His Satyagrah’s slogan was ‘Hindustan me do pradhan, do nishan, do vidhan nahi chalenge.’ There were two Prime ministers, two flags, two constitutions in India, one for Kashmir and other for rest of the country. Dr. Shyamaprasad Mukherjee took challenge to end this situation, and said he would go to the land of Kashmir without passport, visa because Kashmir was his country.”

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:14

ravi_ku wrote:amit, what you are doing is trolling.

Ravi,

I responded to a particular post from Raja Ram. We exchanged a couple of very civil posts. I know Raja Ram may not agree to what I wrote, but I don't think he would say I was trolling while responding to him. All the rest of my posts are responses to trolls who, took my response to Raja Ram out of context. If you don't like my responses, too bad.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 25 Jan 2011 14:14

amit wrote: I thought all the amm people like you were with the BJP.

No sir, I am strictly independent. Any confluence between mine and either BJP, Congress, DMK, Radia et. al, etc is their problem not mine. I reserve the right to criticize or support any subset at any given time of my choosing.

Although you are definitely Kangress material

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 14:17

Dhiman wrote:No sir, I am strictly independent. Any confluence between mine and either BJP, Congress, DMK, Radia et. al, etc is their problem not mine. I reserve the right to criticize or support any subset at any given time of my choosing.

Although you are definitely Kangress material

OK so you are strictly independent and I'm Kangress material. I like this!

But before you start your sales pitch, it let me assure you I can't buy the Howrah Bridge even at the huge discount that you will be offering to me. You see I'm bankrupt.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 14:17

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=69338

Okay guys, the union home ministry has given a release. Basically a rehash of 22nd jan MMS statement, aka "please please do not disturb our cushy life styles"

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 25 Jan 2011 14:19

@Amitji, you are not being consistent. In one post you say "does it need proving" in another "yes it needs". If you are doing this consciously it explains that you are trying to fit the facts to a pre-defined story. If this is happening without a conscious effort, then we are in the same boat, I have been trying my level best (with the amount of information I have from news media), but not able to find ANY positive aspect in stopping unfurling of our Tirangaa in Lal Chowk or for that matter any location of our country. If you can explain the rationale for this obstruction of flag hoisting, please explain and I am all ears.

Abdullahs being necessary powers to align in Kashmir and all that is besides the point. Congress is acting like Dhritarashtra, hiding behind 1000 reasons to explain the need for disallowing the flag hoisting (just as the Blind King tried to explain Duryodhan's Aneeti with all humanistic sounding values - putra prem, how can the noble king allow his son to kill himself).

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 25 Jan 2011 14:20

bl00dey jell!

Just wanted to check what was happening with the Lal Chowk flag thing in this thread and what do I see? Crossfire, snipers and bombs going all over!
Running back to the cozy Nukkad kave kamplex!

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jan 2011 14:32

jamwal wrote:What djinn had possessed Nehru that he halted the advance of Indian army against Paki raiders and went to UN instead ? There is no better example of "snatching defeat from jaws of victory ."

You shall never get a straight answer from anyone on that (in private may be yes, but no one will admit the same in public), all that grandiose posturing about powerful military is on paper onlee.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 25 Jan 2011 14:39

Neela wrote:bl00dey jell!

Just wanted to check what was happening with the Lal Chowk flag thing in this thread and what do I see? Crossfire, snipers and bombs going all over!
Running back to the cozy Nukkad kave kamplex!

Yeah, I was hoping to catch up with the news on BR as usual. This thread has turned into an IED mine field.

(bolts for the door)

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 25 Jan 2011 14:41

vina wrote: India's constitution gives the states near sovereign powers (though not as clear a federal state as say US or even Switzerland or Germany), it works fine.

Works fine, you say. India's constitution gives near "sovereign" powers to states, you say. I did only say, you are misinformed on the topic. So, in this fast moving thread, suffice to say, that your read on the matter is wrong.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Jan 2011 14:45

negi wrote:
jamwal wrote:What djinn had possessed Nehru that he halted the advance of Indian army against Paki raiders and went to UN instead ? There is no better example of "snatching defeat from jaws of victory ."
You shall never get a straight answer from anyone on that (in private may be yes, but no one will admit the same in public), all that grandiose posturing about powerful military is on paper onlee.

And one EMB influence at that time where the Imperial power wanted to save its Paki child.

Just kidding, Diplomatic pressure from certain western countries trying to save the H&D of a Moderate _____ State.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 25 Jan 2011 14:47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsafAiuKU4o

Inder Sharma · Post by **Inder Sharma** » 25 Jan 2011 14:49

OT Alert.

Even if the Congress resistance to National Flag hoisting in a "Disputed" territory of J&K is believed as legitimate, what was the compelling reason that prompted them to gun down 6 Indians trying to hoist the national flag in Hubli, Karnataka on 15th August 1994

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2011 15:01

Kashmir-Punjab border turns battle zone as BJP's Ekta Yatra marches on

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 359990.cms

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Jan 2011 16:19

Tweet by Sushma Swaraj

We have started march towards J&K.

We have reached half way thru the bridge.

We are marching in a group of 500 people holding tricolour.

Arun, Shanta Kumar Anurag Thakur are with me.

It is a long bridge. We are just 200 metres from J&K side of the bridge.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 16:23

What bridge ? There is no bridge at Lakhanpur crossing

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Jan 2011 16:33

Tweet by Sushma Swaraj

We are moving in groups of 500 people each. We are holding tricolor. Bharat mata ki Jai - Vande maatram. We are Arun, Anantha,Shanta& Anurag

Huge police presence on the other side of the bridge

Its a no signal area.

Crossed the bridge.

The road is blocked.

We have been stopped.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 25 Jan 2011 16:44

The Tri color flag march in J&K also diverts attention from the scams.

Should not the BJP focus on scams and that way come to power?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Jan 2011 16:50

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:The Tri color flag march in J&K also diverts attention from the scams.

Should not the BJP focus on scams and that way come to power?

More than enough time for that! Regarding coming to power with no presence in many major states as Chidambarum states" for the next 15 years it will be Congress or Congress Led alliance" so have curry watch with merry.

This is also the about the voice of certain sections of our society which is given no voice in our National Media to give thier view.

BTW are you a Journalist

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 25 Jan 2011 16:51

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:The Tri color flag march in J&K also diverts attention from the scams.

Should not the BJP focus on scams and that way come to power?

The flag hoisting will be a major issue only for the next few days. The scams / JPC demand action will reactivate only before parliament meets again. The two are independent.